Warhammer - Burn the Heretic! Emperor's Children WIN!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:42 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:Unagi, do you think I should announce my special role and what I have done so far this game?

So, its known to the group?

I have a strong suspicion I will be dead tomorrow and I won't be able to spill.
To late for that. Either you get protection or you do not. If you claim a special role and are evil then the real role would be forced out giving you another target for the night. If you claim special and are special then you are taking away the sole advantage of your play by not forcing them to spend their scan.
The reason I came out was so I wouldn't be lynched.

QFT, but realize that cuts both ways. An evil player would "come out" to avoid being lynched same as any special would. Not providing a role, during day before the lynch (which is when I should have taken this up), you may as well see it through. For what it is worth, I think it probably worth the chance of having you protected tonight rather than Unagi (so I guess that is a second positive side effect, forcing them to guess who is protected between you and Unagi(assuming the protector lives))

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:Unagi, do you think I should announce my special role and what I have done so far this game?

So, its known to the group?

I have a strong suspicion I will be dead tomorrow and I won't be able to spill.

Well, here is the deal.

First, I'll just answer this as if you are indeed a special.

You've pronounced yourself a Special.
The EC will likely scan someone else and if that someone else is a special - they will perhaps just kill them - not knowing if you have done this just to fake-waste their time.

If the scan someone else and that person doesn't come up special - they will likely kill you.

I can see your concern, but honestly - (again, if you are indeed a special) you've already dropped a lot of hints.

The Apothecary doesn't need to share with us who's seed he's collected.
The Chaplin hardly needs to tell us who he protected (or plans to) (aside from perhaps telling us who 'Cant' be the converted from last nights Protection)
The Librarian has things to share.
The Terminator is me.

So.....

I guess I am leaning that you should perhaps brain-dump here (and soon)- so that if you are killed there is some data available to us.

If you brain-dump and live, hey - no big deal. Yes, lots of people are going to give you hell for it. But that's comes with the "unprovable special" territory.

Perhaps the Apothecary should scan Lassr, so that - in the event that Scoop does live - the results of the Lassr-Shot (Scoops desired target) can MAYBE be used to show that Scoop was gunning for a Bad Guy.
(To say that Lassr = Good means Scoop = Bad isn't quite as meaningful, I would like to point out - as we are all mostly guessing).

Why Remus, of all people, thinks that your play this game has been Evil is beyond me.
If you are Evil, it would be because you were converted (it's possible) - I just feel very strongly that you were most certainly not evil on the first day. (and I think you still are a Good Guy).

Frankly, I think you actually should be protected - but I doubt you will be, as I think I may be the only one that has put full faith in your status here.

I'd rather I died - but I can also see the strategic need to keep the one Proven special alive...

So yeah, Brain Dump - that's my opinion.

The main reason is this:

If you die, it will because you have made it clear to the EC that you are a special... not because of Which Special - or IF you brain dump or not.
If you live, it won't change anything that you already brain-dumped.... It could even help your credibility a little (no telling with this crowd)

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:48 pm

Remus West wrote:QFT, but realize that cuts both ways. An evil player would "come out" to avoid being lynched same as any special would.

Probably not as fast as he did though, agree?

Remus West wrote:For what it is worth, I think it probably worth the chance of having you protected tonight rather than Unagi

I agree.

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:03 pm

Unagi wrote:Why Remus, of all people, thinks that your play this game has been Evil is beyond me.
If you are Evil, it would be because you were converted (it's possible) - I just feel very strongly that you were most certainly not evil on the first day. (and I think you still are a Good Guy).

Frankly, I think you actually should be protected - but I doubt you will be, as I think I may be the only one that has put full faith in your status here.

I'd rather I died - but I can also see the strategic need to keep the one Proven special alive...

So yeah, Brain Dump - that's my opinion.

The main reason is this:

If you die, it will because you have made it clear to the EC that you are a special... not because of Which Special - or IF you brain dump or not.
If you live, it won't change anything that you already brain-dumped.... It could even help your credibility a little (no telling with this crowd)

His reaction to my stay on voting for him means I'm going to put some trust in him. I concur, I have my suspicions but Scoop ain't one of them.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:22 pm

Brain dump ...

I am the apothocary.

I scanned Mipe yesterday and he was a normal soldier. I am scanning theohall tonight and should get my results tomorrow morning. If I die, you are all lynching blind and won't know if Lassr is tainted or not (though I'm pretty sure there is a taint on him

).

I was seriously thinking of faking being the chaplin but decided it would be safer in the long run for the group to stick to the role I have laid various clues out there for.

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:52 pm

I fail to see how that information helps anyone other than the EC's.

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:03 pm

I just checked the last games thread, and I know this from there:

1) There is one apothocary, multiple may have been planned when we had a third group.
2) The Apothocary learns not just of the taint, but the role as well. (eg: Tainted - Chaos Sorcerer)
3) There is no clarification on the number of gene-seeds that the Apothocary can analyze at night. That being said, it looks like the operation has only been one available last night (as I thought the idea was that JamesSemaj was not assigned a role due to his inability to commit to this go-round.

Mister SoulchildeTru1cy, would you be so kind as to share with us your will and intent?

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:13 pm

One last thing we can determine - Theohall was not the convert, otherwise he would have blown up and taken one random person with him.

Tru1cy - Does that mean that the 'zerk gets to chose, or is this totally random and implemented by you? Also, if this is random are the EC's also possibly victim or is the assumption that during the lynch that they'd move away and ensure they wouldn't get caught in the blast?

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:19 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:Brain dump ...

I am the apothocary.

I scanned Mipe yesterday and he was a normal soldier. I am scanning theohall tonight and should get my results tomorrow morning. If I die, you are all lynching blind and won't know if Lassr is tainted or not (though I'm pretty sure there is a taint on him ).

I was seriously thinking of faking being the chaplin but decided it would be safer in the long run for the group to stick to the role I have laid various clues out there for.

OK, I really don't get it Scoop, but - I so often don't get you.

Why was it important to brain dump 'what you've been up to' as the Apothecary.

Isn't it like - well... Obvious to all of us:
a) what you have done.
b) what you will do tonight, the morning after.
c) when/if you die - there will be no question as to what you were.

I seriously don't see why you were so concerned to do a brain dump Scoop.

If I die, you are all lynching blind and won't know if Lassr is tainted or not

Sounds a little like you are threatening us here, not sure why you put it like that... Also - by the time you have a chance to test Lassr, you will be exposed for your 2nd night, and you will have Tonight's Kill and Tomorrow's Lynch to also consider.

Very strange post of yours there Scoop.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:29 pm

purge wrote:I fail to see how that information helps anyone other than the EC's.

I pretty much agree.

Sorry Scoop, I presumed that - since you were so worried about dying without telling us what you were up to - you had something meaningful to share.

No big deal I suppose, just a game and all.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:31 pm

By the way, CHAPLIN - you really must protect Scoop right now (if you still have the ability).

While the Apothecary can be 'faked' for about 1 day, we'll know in the morning if the Apothecary is still alive.

I strongly recommend that Scoop is protected and that I am not.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:39 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:stick to the role I have laid various clues out there for.

I really don't see the point in laying clues regarding being the Apoth, seems like that would just be inviting trouble, but then again - I didn't really see em...

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:20 am

Unagi wrote:While the Apothecary can be 'faked' for about 1 day, we'll know in the morning if the Apothecary is still alive.

The Apothecary shouldn't be able to be faked at all at the moment. We know he was alive and unconverted at the start of the Day. Neither Theo or Lassr claimed it before their death. The Apothecary should still be alive. Nailing an EC would be a wonderful thing, so if Scoop is not the Apothecary, the real one should speak up immediately.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:31 am

stessier wrote:
Unagi wrote:While the Apothecary can be 'faked' for about 1 day, we'll know in the morning if the Apothecary is still alive.
The Apothecary shouldn't be able to be faked at all at the moment. We know he was alive and unconverted at the start of the Day. Neither Theo or Lassr claimed it before their death. The Apothecary should still be alive. Nailing an EC would be a wonderful thing, so if Scoop is not the Apothecary, the real one should speak up immediately.

Yeah, um - Duh - that was exactly my point, my dear friend.
(but I didn't want to invite EC to do it, as you did, so specifically

)

In any case, as you pointed out - since we know the apothecary is alive to 'counter' a fake claim. Scoop making his claim seems like it would be legit, as the real Apothecary could (would?) call him out on it.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:27 am

When Scoop is involved, it is always best to spell things out in detail.

Besides, I would welcome an EC faking it. Why wouldn't you?

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:46 pm

stessier wrote:Besides, I would welcome an EC faking it. Why wouldn't you?

math

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:02 pm

Unagi wrote:
Remus West wrote:QFT, but realize that cuts both ways. An evil player would "come out" to avoid being lynched same as any special would.
Probably not as fast as he did though, agree?

No, I look at it as he was the leading vote holder at the time as we were closing in on the deadline. If he doesn't speak up he very well may be the one lynched due to time expiring. I had no intention of voting him until I started thinking about his play and it made me nervous. I still wasn't going to vote him ahead of Theohall but he had no way to be certain I wouldn't switch. He couldn't have been certain you would vote Theohall. Either of those events means his death in all likelihood. So I would have expected a EC or a real Special to come forward at that time. Anyway, the point is moot now as he has given his role.

I agree it should be contested if he is faking but why would you guys want it to be contested tonight when the bad guys could then target the real one? If Scoop is evil he would not have chosen to fake Apothecary if they knew who it really was (if they had scanned him) and may want a shot at him tonight if they know they took down the protector so they throw someone under the bus so that the other two can never be known for sure when they go. All that says is that the real Apothecary should be safe until morning to make a play then.

I'm not sharing my thoughts on Scoop further until morning.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:02 pm

Unagi wrote:
stessier wrote:Besides, I would welcome an EC faking it. Why wouldn't you?
math

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:48 pm

Remus West wrote:I agree it should be contested if he is faking but why would you guys want it to be contested tonight when the bad guys could then target the real one?

Actually, I don't want it contested tonight.

Unagi wrote:While the Apothecary can be 'faked' for about 1 day, we'll know in the morning if the Apothecary is still alive.

In fact, I didn't want anyone to even talk about it tonight.

Unagi wrote:Just a quick idea. Perhaps the end of this discussion can come in the morning.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:51 pm

Unagi wrote:
Remus West wrote:I agree it should be contested if he is faking but why would you guys want it to be contested tonight when the bad guys could then target the real one?
Actually, I don't want it contested tonight.
Unagi wrote:While the Apothecary can be 'faked' for about 1 day, we'll know in the morning if the Apothecary is still alive.
In fact, I didn't want anyone to even talk about it tonight.
Unagi wrote:Just a quick idea. Perhaps the end of this discussion can come in the morning.

The end of discussion comment came before Scoop announced his role. My comment that you quoted came afterwards and dealt with a different issue.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:53 pm

In any event, we are not disagreeing just enjoying the normal head butting I think.

My point, after the Apoth announcement, was simply that the morning would be the time where we have anything to act on.

My point, before the Apoth announcement, was simply to not discuss any of this - so it didn't go as far as it went.

My point about brain-dumping was when I presumed Scoop had seer-data to share.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:59 pm

I think if Apothecary is to be contested, it should be contested tonight. If the EC scanned the Apoth last night, then they fake it today and kill the real one tonight. Are we really going to ask the librarian to check out uncontested roles instead of unkown players?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:29 pm

*Insert jeopardy theme here*

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:16 pm

I'm back. Just back into town. So let the beat down commence.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:02 am

stessier wrote:I think if Apothecary is to be contested, it should be contested tonight. If the EC scanned the Apoth last night, then they fake it today and kill the real one tonight. Are we really going to ask the librarian to check out uncontested roles instead of unkown players?

What does kown mean and how can you unkown?

More seriously, why would we need to? If they killed the Apothecary we will know because no Geneseed will show up in the morning. No need to contest as his state of being will be readily apparent come day.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:22 am

Remus West wrote:More seriously, why would we need to? If they killed the Apothecary we will know because no Geneseed will show up in the morning. No need to contest as his state of being will be readily apparent come day.

Hrmph. Forgot about that.

Back to the drawing board.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:38 am

purge wrote:I just checked the last games thread, and I know this from there:

1) There is one apothocary, multiple may have been planned when we had a third group.
2) The Apothocary learns not just of the taint, but the role as well. (eg: Tainted - Chaos Sorcerer)
3) There is no clarification on the number of gene-seeds that the Apothocary can analyze at night. That being said, it looks like the operation has only been one available last night (as I thought the idea was that JamesSemaj was not assigned a role due to his inability to commit to this go-round.

Mister SoulchildeTru1cy, would you be so kind as to share with us your will and intent?

The intent was One apothecary could check a gene-seed. Having mutiple Apothecary allowed for the Blood Ravens to have to lynch or kill information

purge · Post by **purge** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:47 am

Tru1cy... you list the task order as such:

Order of turn:

Space Marine Librarian: Scan
Chaos Sorcerer Scan
Apothecary recovers gene-seed
Space Marine Chaplin protects
Chaos kills/convert

Does that mean that the Librarian and Apothocary roles can reveal their data at night before the morning, or at least before you send out the "you're dead" PM?

Just curious - I would expect that night-time chatter is not allowed to be "important" although it could certainly sway peoples actions (such as the EC kills etc).

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:56 am

purge wrote:Tru1cy... you list the task order as such:

Order of turn:

Space Marine Librarian: Scan
Chaos Sorcerer Scan
Apothecary recovers gene-seed
Space Marine Chaplin protects
Chaos kills/convert
Does that mean that the Librarian and Apothocary roles can reveal their data at night before the morning, or at least before you send out the "you're dead" PM?

Just curious - I would expect that night-time chatter is not allowed to be "important" although it could certainly sway peoples actions (such as the EC kills etc).

Didn't think I needed to make a specific rule, but generally information learned by specials cannot be released til the day turn. So any information learned at night cannot be released til day

-edit Also any information learned on previous evening can be released

purge · Post by **purge** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:09 am

I was just looking for clarification, not a defined rule. I was online with Mister Unagi the other day and we were discussing different WW variants and I was analyzing what could be done to shift power; having a coroner role being 2/3s protected every night would mean that THEY would be responsible for releasing the info, and should the wolves try to kill him they could have a missed kill and nothing to show for it (which would then give the 'zerker' something to aim for on a lynch).

Since the day/reveal "rule" was only implicit, I wanted to make sure it wasn't just an assumption... hypothetically if our apoth. could reveal in night cycle, we could still get the data before his/her death occurs.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:12 am

OK, well there is a point to the sorcerer getting their scan 'in the night' , as they then make their choice of kill after they learn about their scan.

Personally, I'd just hold the results of the Good-Guy scan (and Gene-Seed) until morning, so that there is nothing for the players to 'hold back' on reporting.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:15 am

Actually, I sorta like the idea that:
The Apoth "could" announce his findings publically during the night....

But, that the game also gives him the ability to 'submit' them officially and anonymously through the game moderator, in the morning.

It give a little more strength to 'the good guys', in that an exposed apothecary can share perhaps "one last nights' work".

But, how things are now is fine too.

Be great if we had "a day" to start the week with here soon.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:24 pm

It will be very easy to prove myself. If I die tonight you won't learn if anyone of the people killed yesterday and tonight are tainted.

I think I am probably their target and I don't feel comfortable that the chaplin still lives or hasn't been converted. Thats why I wanted to give my info (admittedly of limited value) before I died the next morning.

Once I announced I was a special, my fate was pretty much sealed. The baddies get to scan someone first before the kill anyone. Originally I wanted to keep my identity secret and force them to scan me. Then Remus pointed out they might just kill me and not scan me so I felt it would help the group to know what I know and to know I was the apothecary.

If I hadn't been so close to being lynched I wouldn't have said anything.

purge · Post by **purge** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:14 pm

When does the morning begin? Is there no deadline for the orders? Come on specials, it's halfway through Monday.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:21 pm

Day

Stessier was sacrificed to the Ruinous powers. Written in blood near his head

Chaos 2
Corpse-god 0

Result of Gene-seed recovery: Theohall was untainted.

Seven remain

Austin
Remus West
Scoop20906
ChaosRaven
Purge
Mr. Bubbles
Unagi

Voting will close Wednesday 1/14 @ 5pm est

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:27 pm

Well, Scoop, what have we learned from the night?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:29 pm

The above post is my way of saying "where the hell is the geneseed information?" Did we not get it at the start of the day yesterday?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:31 pm

tru1cy wrote:Day 2

Roll Call finds all Marine alive and well. No one was struck down by chaos.

On the table is a data-slab written on is Mipe's autopsy. Mipe's gene-seed was recovered and no taint was found

1. Purge
2. ChaosRaven
3. Remus West
4. Unagi
5. Stessier
6. Scoop20906
7. Austin
8. theohall
9. Mipe - Bolter shell + head = dead
10. Mr. Bubbles
11. Lassr
12. Semaj - dead

Ten remain. Six is majority

Where is our data-slab autopsy this time?

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:38 pm

Remus West wrote:Well, Scoop, what have we learned from the night?

Theohall was an untainted battle brother (normal).

I have no info about Lassr since tru1cy posts this with the write up. I think we just need to wait until he checks back in.

Seeing that Stessier is dead makes me think the declined to scan me and instead scanned and killed him. Stess could have been our Seer (again?) or the Chaplin.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:03 pm

Scoop, you may need to give a PM to tru1cy and ask for him to make the official announcment that he made last time.... (as Remus has shown).

Since we did not get the report via Tru1cy, we can only assume that our Apothecary is dead - and well, that you are a fake.

So... I'd love to hear why it is that Tru1cy didn't leave us the anonymous report on Theohall's Geneseed.

It would appear that you have some 'splainin to do.