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Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
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- Jaymann
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
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- El Guapo
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Thinking about this some more. What's the relevance of the bastardy of Rhaenyra's sons with respect to the immediate succession crisis? Viserys named Rhaenyra as his heir, and the great houses swore allegiance to her. Even if it were officially accepted that Rhaenyra's kids were bastards, that wouldn't invalidate Rhaenyra inheriting the iron throne, right? The issue there would be that (unless legitimized) her kids presumably couldn't inherit the iron throne. But Rhaenyra now has at least one son through Daemon whose legitimacy is as far as we can tell unchallenged.
So doesn't the bastardy only impact whether Rhaenyra's eldest child vs. her eldest child with Daemon inherits after her?
Obviously the whole "Viserys told me on his deathbed that he wanted my son Aegon to be his heir after all" stuff that Alicent's about to pull is a whole separate thing, but thinking about it it's a little funny that the whole bastardy scandal has been at the center of the succession dispute when it seems like it should be irrelevant for now?
So doesn't the bastardy only impact whether Rhaenyra's eldest child vs. her eldest child with Daemon inherits after her?
Obviously the whole "Viserys told me on his deathbed that he wanted my son Aegon to be his heir after all" stuff that Alicent's about to pull is a whole separate thing, but thinking about it it's a little funny that the whole bastardy scandal has been at the center of the succession dispute when it seems like it should be irrelevant for now?
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- ImLawBoy
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
She would then have to admit that the Strong boys were bastards and that she's been lying to everyone, including the King. Given that it's already a dicey enough proposition to have a woman sit the Iron Throne, add in that she's a liar (and promiscuous to boot!) and it's probably not very likely that she'd be accepted as ruler.
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- Jaymann
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
It might be relevant to the bastards.
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- El Guapo
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
I'm not saying that she should admit that they're bastards. Just that it's irrelevant to her right to inherit the iron throne.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:32 pm She would then have to admit that the Strong boys were bastards and that she's been lying to everyone, including the King. Given that it's already a dicey enough proposition to have a woman sit the Iron Throne, add in that she's a liar (and promiscuous to boot!) and it's probably not very likely that she'd be accepted as ruler.
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- McNutt
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
There would be a lot of people challenging her if she were to take the throne with that over her head. It could easily lead to civil war as various people try to usurp her.
- ImLawBoy
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Well, you did ask:
That seems to me to suggest that who inherits from Rhaenyra has some role in her claim. Otherwise, whether or not she had any children at all would be irrelevant to her claim because if she died without children, succession would likely pass to Aegon when she died since he's the next oldest living child of Viserys.
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- El Guapo
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
If she had no legitimate heirs, that could cast a pall over her succession. But she clearly does even if one concludes that the "Strong" ones are bastards.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:52 pm Well, you did ask:That seems to me to suggest that who inherits from Rhaenyra has some role in her claim. Otherwise, whether or not she had any children at all would be irrelevant to her claim because if she died without children, succession would likely pass to Aegon when she died since he's the next oldest living child of Viserys.
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- ImLawBoy
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
But clearing up the succession then would essentially be admitting the bastardy of the Strong kids.El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:58 pmIf she had no legitimate heirs, that could cast a pall over her succession. But she clearly does even if one concludes that the "Strong" ones are bastards.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:52 pm Well, you did ask:That seems to me to suggest that who inherits from Rhaenyra has some role in her claim. Otherwise, whether or not she had any children at all would be irrelevant to her claim because if she died without children, succession would likely pass to Aegon when she died since he's the next oldest living child of Viserys.
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- El Guapo
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
She wouldn't have to. Her position throughout would be that all her kids are legitimate and that the heir is the eldest of all of them. Point is that it seems like the potential succession crisis should be when she dies, not when her father dies.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 4:05 pmBut clearing up the succession then would essentially be admitting the bastardy of the Strong kids.El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:58 pmIf she had no legitimate heirs, that could cast a pall over her succession. But she clearly does even if one concludes that the "Strong" ones are bastards.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:52 pm Well, you did ask:That seems to me to suggest that who inherits from Rhaenyra has some role in her claim. Otherwise, whether or not she had any children at all would be irrelevant to her claim because if she died without children, succession would likely pass to Aegon when she died since he's the next oldest living child of Viserys.
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- Holman
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
The succession crisis they were debating wasn't the Iron Throne but the Driftwood throne.
With Corlys (head of House Velaryon) dead or dying at sea, the seat at Driftmark (and the headship of the House) should pass (through Rhaneyra's Velaryon husband who is thought to be dead but isn't) to the older of the bastard princes.
That's why Velaryon-guy-who-keeps-his-tongue made the accusation. The seat and headship of his house were passing to a bastard.
(...At least, I think I have this right.)
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- ImLawBoy
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Yeah, there are two potential succession crises, but I think he's referring to the Iron Throne. And the issue with the Iron Throne is less at this point about the parentage of her boys than it is her lack of a penis. So the immediate question is whether or not Rhaenyra or Aegon should take the throne. Viserys named Rhaenyra, but Westeros society has never had a woman ruler and tradition would have the throne go to Aegon. The parentage of the Strong boys doesn't have a direct impact on this, but I think it likely makes some houses more likely to support Aegon's claim because they find her untrustworthy. (Aegon, of course, is his own little asshole, but the Lords of Westeros are used to male assholes.)
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- Hrothgar
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
I'm reading Fire and Blood right now, but I haven't gotten to the Dance of the Dragons yet.
But we know from Game of Thrones (spoilered just in case):
Regardless, it's the Game of Thrones. I wouldn't get too attached to any character.
But we know from Game of Thrones (spoilered just in case):
Spoiler:
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Fantastic episode this week. Excited to see the finale next week.
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- EvilHomer3k
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Easily the best episode so far.
Spoiler:
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- Smoove_B
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
That ending was something!
Regardless, I wasn't expecting it either. It was odd and considering the spectrum of things covered in the GoT universe, it still managed to be really, really uncomfortable. I continue to think this show is better than I was hoping it would be. I think they've definitely carved themselves out as a quality production.
Incest? No problem. But the collective internet seems to be aghast as your spoiler! I think Rick and Morty have normalized things.
Regardless, I wasn't expecting it either. It was odd and considering the spectrum of things covered in the GoT universe, it still managed to be really, really uncomfortable. I continue to think this show is better than I was hoping it would be. I think they've definitely carved themselves out as a quality production.
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- hepcat
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
What I found surprising was the first half hour of the show and its obvious homage to Weekend at Bernie’s. The montage of Criston and Serr Harold taking the body of the king on an extended tour of the bars of King’s Landing, only to end it all with a skiing competition after Criston picked a fight in the wrong tavern, was inspired.
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- Holman
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
At this point I'm rooting for Aemond One-Eye, if only because he pointed out (during the search with Ser Criston) that he's the only candidate for the throne who reads history and philosophy. I approve of university students.
Aegon II can hang.
Aegon II can hang.
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
I'm expecting great things from one eye. I like that character a lot.
For the life of me I can't remember who in the hell the twins are. And did one die?
For the life of me I can't remember who in the hell the twins are. And did one die?
- hepcat
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Okay, watched it (for real this time).
Spoiler:
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- McNutt
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Yeah, not sure why she wouldn't end it then and there. Like zero clue.
Also, it's a dragon. Wouldn't someone be guarding that beast if they were looking for her?
Foot stuff, ah OK. Wait, what's he doing now??? That was just shock for shock's sake.
Also, it's a dragon. Wouldn't someone be guarding that beast if they were looking for her?
Foot stuff, ah OK. Wait, what's he doing now??? That was just shock for shock's sake.
- Sudy
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
I've got a bigger problem with the physically improbable, presumably unintentional murder earlier in the episode than foot stuff. While I didn't need to see his hand reaching inside his trousers, this exchange did add dimension to the characters involved and their relationship. It's disgusting, but it's meaningful.
Really not sure what to make of the ending. I understand arguments both for and against unleashing fire. What I have the bigger problem with is the presumed loss of life for a flashy scene. I get that commoners' lives have little to no value to most of these characters; we see this over and over again, and occasionally it's a plot point. But it makes it really difficult to cheer for any of these characters (and though they're almost all detestable, we are frequently incited to cheer for them) when they have such a seemingly over-the-top disregard for human life. It's just mentally and emotionally exhausting.
I thought it was another great episode overall though.
Really not sure what to make of the ending. I understand arguments both for and against unleashing fire. What I have the bigger problem with is the presumed loss of life for a flashy scene. I get that commoners' lives have little to no value to most of these characters; we see this over and over again, and occasionally it's a plot point. But it makes it really difficult to cheer for any of these characters (and though they're almost all detestable, we are frequently incited to cheer for them) when they have such a seemingly over-the-top disregard for human life. It's just mentally and emotionally exhausting.
Spoiler:
Last edited by Sudy on Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- McNutt
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
I'm also not sure how the rider isn't crushed when breaking through the floor. It had to have been a pretty solid floor to support all of those people. It's not like crashing through drywall.
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
I think it adds another layer to her character, particularly after what happened at the Small Council table; it's pretty clear she's a figurehead to them and her only use is to further the agenda of others. Her interaction with Ser Larys is more of the same. It's uh...more intimate, but she's still just a "thing" to someone. Pretty much then the last 20 years (potentially) she's been nothing but a means to an end.Sudy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:07 pm I've got a bigger problem with the physically improbable, presumably unintentional murder earlier in the episode than foot stuff. While I didn't need to see his hand reaching inside his trousers, this exchange did add dimension to the characters involved and their relationship. It's disgusting, but it's meaningful.
In this way, I think she's much more sympathetic than someone like Cersi (which I keep seeing people trying to compare her to elsewhere) - very different dimensions.
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- hepcat
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
I'd love to be the fly on the wall for how their conversations went from "hey, I can help you!" to "Which little Piggie went to...UUUUUHHHHHNNNNN".
But on a more serious note, it makes no sense to me that Larys would squander some of the capital he gained from sucking up to the queen on a freakin' foot fetish. He's the one that needs to make her trust him implicitly. Asking her to doff her socks for some trouser bingo seems like a totally ill advised way to curry more favor from someone who he needs on his side. Yes, she's somewhat naive and innocent in the ways of power, but that's just WAY too obvious a power play on Larys' end.
But on a more serious note, it makes no sense to me that Larys would squander some of the capital he gained from sucking up to the queen on a freakin' foot fetish. He's the one that needs to make her trust him implicitly. Asking her to doff her socks for some trouser bingo seems like a totally ill advised way to curry more favor from someone who he needs on his side. Yes, she's somewhat naive and innocent in the ways of power, but that's just WAY too obvious a power play on Larys' end.
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- El Guapo
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
It wasn't clear to me whether Rhaenys (sp?) was on the dragon when it burst in, or whether she got on afterwards. They've established that there's some vague quasi-telepathic bond between rider and dragon, though it doesn't seem quite like there's full verbal communication. We do see Rhaenys edging towards the exit shortly before her dragon bursts in Kool Aid Man style. My understanding when I saw it was that she hopped on the dragon after it burst in. Which I think makes the most sense, in that she probably wouldn't survive bursting in on the dragon, plus it wouldn't make sense for her to burst in to the ceremony only for the purpose of roaring at the Greens.
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- hepcat
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
We see her going down stairs before that scene. So my natural assumption is she hopped on the good ship Dragonpop on parking level C (I'm guessing she had her keys and just used that to trigger the alarm so she could find him/her/it) and then he/she/it somehow shielded her from harm with its wings or something.
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- EvilHomer3k
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Seems we're out of spoiler territory here.
Spoiler:
That sound of the spoon scraping over the can ribbing as you corral the last ravioli or two is the signal that a great treat is coming. It's the washboard solo in God's own
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- hepcat
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
So....
That being said, I'm perfectly willing to listen to an explanation in the next episode as to why she didn't do what seemed like the obvious thing in that scene. People make dumb choices in shows I love all the time, and when people rail against those things, I remind them that people are always doing dumb things in real life. I just hope we get at least a small explanation for why this particular instance happened.
Spoiler:
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- McNutt
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Killing them doesn't start a war. It ends one. The war started when the Queen convinced others that the named successor was changed in a private conversation. Killing the Queen and her kids would end the need for a war. Or that war at least. It might cause a war between her and her brother if she were then to try and claim the crown.
- Jaymann
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
It's like if the Koolaid pitcher...BAM'd by hepcat.
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- hepcat
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
That was actually El Guapo with the Kool Aid man comparison.
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- Hrothgar
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
To be fair, you are known for bursting into rooms without pants shouting, "Oh, Yeah!"
- msteelers
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
We watched this last night. I thought it was a great episode with a really stupid ending that might taint the rest of the series.
Maybe this will be something they address and clean up in the finale, but it will most likely be a situation where I'll just have to not think about it too much.
I'm also really surprised at the general reactions I'm seeing to the whole Larys Strong thing. Out of everything this franchise has shown us over the years, how does a foot fetish even register? Especially in an episode where we see kids that have
Spoiler:
I'm also really surprised at the general reactions I'm seeing to the whole Larys Strong thing. Out of everything this franchise has shown us over the years, how does a foot fetish even register? Especially in an episode where we see kids that have
Spoiler:
- hepcat
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
I complained about both of those scenes. And I explained why I thought the little piggies scene was stupid.
Like a sad, pantsless vampire, I have to be invited in first.
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- El Guapo
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree about the episode and the ending.msteelers wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:55 am We watched this last night. I thought it was a great episode with a really stupid ending that might taint the rest of the series.
Maybe this will be something they address and clean up in the finale, but it will most likely be a situation where I'll just have to not think about it too much.Spoiler:
I'm also really surprised at the general reactions I'm seeing to the whole Larys Strong thing. Out of everything this franchise has shown us over the years, how does a foot fetish even register? Especially in an episode where we see kids that haveSpoiler:
Spoiler:
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- McNutt
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
She didn't have a problem killing who knows how many peasants when breaking out.
- Jaymann
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Since everyone was there, it was likely a bunch of royals ate a rock sandwich.
Perhaps her statement was to the effect of: "This place sucks, I'm taking my dragon and GTFO."
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
Spoiler:
That sound of the spoon scraping over the can ribbing as you corral the last ravioli or two is the signal that a great treat is coming. It's the washboard solo in God's own
bluegrass band of comfort food. - LawBeefaroni
bluegrass band of comfort food. - LawBeefaroni
- msteelers
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Re: Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]
It would certainly end the threat of open war, as nobody you mentioned would be an immediate threat.
Spoiler: