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The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
- Isgrimnur
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
It's almost as if people are the problem.
- El Guapo
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I'm still planning on wearing my mask to large gathering indoor stuff (e.g., grocery stores and the like) for the time being. There is pretty universal mask culture in my neighborhood, and I'm expecting that's going to last for awhile, so even aside from the health risk I think there would be a very real culture risk at this point for not wearing a mask indoors. Plus I assume that stores will keep mandating masks for awhile (especially since I can't see an easy way for grocery stores to check vaccination status).
As for outdoors, people here still generally wear masks outdoors. There's been a slight drop off in outdoor mask wearing (maybe 70% instead of 90%+). In open outdoor areas (parks etc.) lots of people don't wear masks then slip them on when passing people going the other direction.
As for outdoors, people here still generally wear masks outdoors. There's been a slight drop off in outdoor mask wearing (maybe 70% instead of 90%+). In open outdoor areas (parks etc.) lots of people don't wear masks then slip them on when passing people going the other direction.
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- YellowKing
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I'm curious if they'll lift the mask mandate for businesses here now. In theory, you'd think it would make cases go back up because stores could now be full of unvaccinated, unmasked people milling around. I doubt people who are hesitant to get the vaccine are the same ones carefully masking up and protecting others.Smoove_B wrote:it was a decision that was made over the last day or so to try and really drive those that are hesitant to get vaccinated (because they can now see a measurable benefit).
- Zaxxon
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I'm less concerned with the going maskless part (at least indoors) as I am about the 'it's now safe to do all the things' part. That seems to me to imply that the CDC must believe the risk of transmission by vaccinated people, even to unvaccinated folks, is virtually nil. But I can't find anywhere explicitly addressing this
Either way, I also plan to wear a mask indoors around strangers for some time to come.
Either way, I also plan to wear a mask indoors around strangers for some time to come.
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Yes, I'm expecting cluster outbreaks in parts of the U.S. that remove the mask mandate (to follow new CDC guidance) and there's significant numbers of unvaccianted people coming into contact.YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:43 pm I'm curious if they'll lift the mask mandate for businesses here now. In theory, you'd think it would make cases go back up because stores could now be full of unvaccinated, unmasked people milling around. I doubt people who are hesitant to get the vaccine are the same ones carefully masking up and protecting others.
But apparently the CDC is confident in the data that vaccinated people are protected and overall circulating virus levels are dropping. Just need to make sure we keep kids safe.
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- El Guapo
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
In theory the CDC is not saying that stores should remove mask mandates, right? Logically stores should maintain mask mandates for exactly that reason, at least unless they have some workable way to verify customer vaccination status.Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:50 pmYes, I'm expecting cluster outbreaks in parts of the U.S. that remove the mask mandate (to follow new CDC guidance) and there's significant numbers of unvaccianted people coming into contact.YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:43 pm I'm curious if they'll lift the mask mandate for businesses here now. In theory, you'd think it would make cases go back up because stores could now be full of unvaccinated, unmasked people milling around. I doubt people who are hesitant to get the vaccine are the same ones carefully masking up and protecting others.
But apparently the CDC is confident in the data that vaccinated people are protected and overall circulating virus levels are dropping. Just need to make sure we keep kids safe.
Though I do fully expect that a lot of stores will remove mask mandates and a lot of state and local governments will seize on this to remove mask mandates (and/or force stores to remove mask mandates). Though probably a lot of MAGA areas already did that months ago anyway.
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- Blackhawk
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I'm wondering if they're playing the long game - guessing that the extra lives saved by the increased vaccinations will be meaningfully more than those lost by removing mask restrictions.
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- Blackhawk
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
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- Skinypupy
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I can't imagine that loosening of restrictions would have any practical effect on vaccination rates though.
Seems like everyone is pretty well set on one side or the other at this point.
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- stessier
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I feel your pain. I thought I'd get over it, but the "no masks in school" thing this week with less than 3 weeks left was a real gut punch though. Like it would have killed them to wait so those that care could get the vaccination first. Infuriating.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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- Zaxxon
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Thankfully our schools haven't done that yet, but I'm thinking they will come August. Really hoping the 5-11 group opens up by school resuming in the fall.stessier wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 3:36 pmI feel your pain. I thought I'd get over it, but the "no masks in school" thing this week with less than 3 weeks left was a real gut punch though. Like it would have killed them to wait so those that care could get the vaccination first. Infuriating.
- Ralph-Wiggum
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
But our governor told us that wearing masks is harmful to children!
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- Blackhawk
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Ours left it up to the teachers at some vague point during the winter, most of whom made it optional as long as kids were in their desk.
Of course, they never relayed this to the parents.
Of course, they never relayed this to the parents.
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- Smoove_B
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
If they can say they're not making gay-cakes, they can say you need to wear a mask.
This is indeed where it gets interesting as I'm hoping work places (retail in particular) will now enforce employment vaccinations - to protect workers and customers from the unvaccinated masses moving through the store.
Indeed. And I'm guessing we're going to find out exactly who is and who isn't vaccinated over the next 6 months.Though I do fully expect that a lot of stores will remove mask mandates and a lot of state and local governments will seize on this to remove mask mandates (and/or force stores to remove mask mandates). Though probably a lot of MAGA areas already did that months ago anyway.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
There's lot of people asking what we have been - I'm a little surprised no official guidance was communicated.
I think as a sign of solidarity and to help a child feel more comfortable, I'd be wearing a mask with them in any situation that would require them to do so. Its hard enough being a kid normally and if they're anxious or feeling self conscious about being the only person unmasked it might help (even though it's not doing anything for you as the vaccinated adult).New: Do kids still need to wear face masks?
"Children are treated as unvaccinated unless they are 12 and up and have been fully vaccinated," CDC told @CBSNews
about their new guidance, meaning young kids who are not yet vaccine eligible should still wear masks.
Also, that Fauci pin.
I can only hope at some point he's randomly asked if he knows anything about Ookla the Mok.
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- Kraken
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I'd be a lot more comfortable with this if there was a way to identify fully vaccinated people vs. the daredevils and free riders. I still don't want to be near them without a mask, and will therefore continue to wear a mask in public indoor settings like grocery stores. Today there was a young lady shopping and schmoozing with her mask down below her chin; nobody said a word to her about it. People are also bringing their children with them again, which is something that stopped happening for a year.El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:41 pm I'm still planning on wearing my mask to large gathering indoor stuff (e.g., grocery stores and the like) for the time being. There is pretty universal mask culture in my neighborhood, and I'm expecting that's going to last for awhile, so even aside from the health risk I think there would be a very real culture risk at this point for not wearing a mask indoors. Plus I assume that stores will keep mandating masks for awhile (especially since I can't see an easy way for grocery stores to check vaccination status).
As for outdoors, people here still generally wear masks outdoors. There's been a slight drop off in outdoor mask wearing (maybe 70% instead of 90%+). In open outdoor areas (parks etc.) lots of people don't wear masks then slip them on when passing people going the other direction.
Outdoors, very few people in my neck of the woods are masking, although we're still mostly keeping our distance. I no longer take a mask with me on my morning walk unless I'm planning to go into the square.
Fortunately, Massholes are pretty good about getting vaxxed, and compliance will likely be >70% by midsummer.
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Here you go - the numbers:
Why did it take @CDCgov til May 13 to recommend the vaccinated be liberated? Because it was unclear if vaccines protect against transmission—not just harboring the virus in your nose—but spreading it It's abundantly clear now, at least w/ mRNA vaccines, that transmission is rare. These are some recent studies of +PCR, infection, all <1%, mostly equivalent to nose harboring, carrier state, without symptoms. The rate of transmission is *much* lower
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- Defiant
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I would have also figured that the percentage of vaccinated people might also played a part. If you're the only one vaccinated, that's a different situation then if you're vaccinated, and 40-50% of the people you come into contact are likely also vaccinated.
- stessier
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Cool!Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:44 pm Here you go - the numbers:
Why did it take @CDCgov til May 13 to recommend the vaccinated be liberated? Because it was unclear if vaccines protect against transmission—not just harboring the virus in your nose—but spreading it It's abundantly clear now, at least w/ mRNA vaccines, that transmission is rare. These are some recent studies of +PCR, infection, all <1%, mostly equivalent to nose harboring, carrier state, without symptoms. The rate of transmission is *much* lower
I wonder how J&J does given the Yankees current issues.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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- Smoove_B
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I'm confident there were very smart people running numbers on this and looking at trends. I'm guessing that the data they have is telling them they've hit the vaccinated adult upper threshold and rather than get people spinning on why or how we're stuck, recommend the mask mandate is removed and get people excited about that.
As I said earlier, I'm confident we're going to find out real quick who among us is against being vaccinated.
We just need to keep protecting the kids and those that can't be vaccinated - and for now, that includes wearing masks.
As I said earlier, I'm confident we're going to find out real quick who among us is against being vaccinated.
We just need to keep protecting the kids and those that can't be vaccinated - and for now, that includes wearing masks.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- LawBeefaroni
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
There it is:
Thanks, CNBC.
CDC says fully vaccinated people don't need to wear face masks indoors or outdoors in most settings
Thanks, CNBC.
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- Zaxxon
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Welcome to the thread; stay awhile.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:58 pm There it is:CDC says fully vaccinated people don't need to wear face masks indoors or outdoors in most settings
Thanks, CNBC.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
And today's news means we can't bring the kids into public spaces assuming everyone is wearing masks and they will be reasonably safe. It's back to severe lock-down.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Overheard at Lowes. (Paraphrasing) 'See! As soon as Biden is in office they get rid of this mask bullshit'. Sigh. I feel like just walking in a random direction into the woods.
- LawBeefaroni
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I've been following the thread.Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:05 pmWelcome to the thread; stay awhile.LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:58 pm There it is:CDC says fully vaccinated people don't need to wear face masks indoors or outdoors in most settings
Thanks, CNBC.
Making that point that the headlines are kind of irresponsible.
I had a meeting with a bar owner in the neighborhood tonight and walking around, everyone was unmasked. 2 days ago, everyone was masked. That's all well and good but the bars, restaurants, and stores are still following city and state guidelines which mean masks, distancing, and capacity limits. And I saw more than a few confrontational patrons citing the CDC and getting indignant at the rules.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
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"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
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- Zaxxon
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I'm confused--the CNBC headline and subheads are entirely accurate, by my read. Which part is irresponsible? Seems like you're saying the CDC is the irresponsible party, and CNBC is reporting it.
- LordMortis
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Yeah, I'm waiting to learn more about that. Things don't seem consistent here. Where the root of inconsistency is at, I dunno. Crazy odds? Got vaccisnated and spiked the ball on the two yard line? Didn't get vaccninated? Data off? I don't understand what is really happening? Something else?
- Remus West
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Obviously they are simply going to install "vaccine scanners" in doorways to read our microchips and let them track where we are and thus also who among us is not vaccinated. All we need do is pressure them into making it so the scanner sprays the unclean with an identifying paint color. Or stamps their head with a mark of stupidity. I'm thinking one of an elephant would let us all know to steer clear.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Same as it ever was. CDC says wear a mask and practice social distancing? Tyranny! Constitution!LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:45 pm And I saw more than a few confrontational patrons citing the CDC and getting indignant at the rules.
CDC says no more masking? They are the font of supreme knowledge and I must obey, regardless of state/local regulations.
There's some type of pattern here; I'll need to noodle on it.
Also, I have no idea what's going on with the Yankees, but that's definitely an interesting story. This is also where a group of public health / infectious disease doctors are getting nervous about yesterday's declaration. Not because of the Yankees but I'm not sure if variants are involved. As more variants continue to pop up, the "no mask for vaccinated people" policy could become a huge problem.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Excellent observation
If the United States had the vaccination rates of Black communities (about 27%) I don’t think the CDC would have changed the masking guidelines.
We should change guidelines when it is reasonable and safe for the populations made MOST vulnerable, not for those who are the least.
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- Smoove_B
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I'd expect this story to be a prominent feature of Fox News all day today.:
Pelosi keeps mask mandate on House floor despite CDC change, sparking GOP backlash: "It’s about control"
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- gilraen
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
There's definitely quite a bit of anecdotal evidence now, of celebrities/athletes testing positive after getting the J&J vaccine. Most are asymptomatic, so the only reason they find out about it is because they are regularly tested. Bill Maher announced yesterday that he tested positive, so this week's episode of his show had to be canceled. Others - like Damion Lee of GS Warriors - was very much symptomatic and hasn't been able to return to the court yet. But still, his illness can't be considered "severe", so did the vaccine help in that respect? Maybe? Probably? No way to know. Is it one of the variants? They didn't say.
- Grifman
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
I think the CDC decision was terrible, because it's only going to cause controversy and confusion. Many people (such as minorities noted above and people with immune system problems) are still threatened by this, and much of the population is still unvaccinated. It would have been better if they had said that masks can come off once we reach herd immunity - that would provide an incentive for more vaccinations. There's going to be pressure now for businesses, cities and states to remove mask mandates - and there's no way for those entities to require masks for the unvaccinated because there is no way to identify them. Bad decision all the way around.
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- El Guapo
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
WTF is the Post doing with that tweet headline. Did the Post social media coordinator owe a favor to someone at Fox News?
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- El Guapo
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Is there any evidence of effects like this with the mRNA vaccines? Seems like not. I have to think that between this and the J&J pause that willingness to take the J&J vaccine is going to collapse.gilraen wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 10:37 am There's definitely quite a bit of anecdotal evidence now, of celebrities/athletes testing positive after getting the J&J vaccine. Most are asymptomatic, so the only reason they find out about it is because they are regularly tested. Bill Maher announced yesterday that he tested positive, so this week's episode of his show had to be canceled. Others - like Damion Lee of GS Warriors - was very much symptomatic and hasn't been able to return to the court yet. But still, his illness can't be considered "severe", so did the vaccine help in that respect? Maybe? Probably? No way to know. Is it one of the variants? They didn't say.
Black Lives Matter.
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
That ship has long sailed; it's never happening.
The biggest issue is that their recommendation was seemingly made without any regard to the highly local/regional nature of COVID-19 right now. Going maskless in NJ or MA is a whole different discussion than going maskless in TN or MS.
So many seemed to agree with my initial impression from yesterday - they're taking a big gamble. They know vaccination acceptance has flatlined - the people that wanted to be vaccinated are. How that squares with access (i.e. did all the people that want it have equitable access?), I don't know. But my take is that they're gambling that enough people are vaccinated and that circulating virus levels are continuing to decline nationwide.Bad decision all the way around.
But yes, this puts incredible pressure on businesses and workers - the very workers we're hearing about that don't want to come to work. I'm sure removing mask mandates will really encourage retail and frontline workers to return in droves.
I honestly don't know what the answer is here. The CDC is (and has been since March) in a crap position. They have been taking nonstop heat for just about every decision from the get go. When you have 50 different states doing different thing based on local and regional politics, I really don't know what the answer is (if there ever was one).
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- LawBeefaroni
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Terrible messaging by the CDC as usual, running with it and cherry picking by CNBC (and everyone else). Plenty of blame to go around.
This was not the right message and not the right time.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
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- El Guapo
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process
Yeah, I really feel like the CDC didn't have any great options here. If they keep the mask recommendation for fully vaccinated people, then they're going to get a lot of questions along the lines of "hey, is there any data supporting the recommendation that fully vaccinated people should keep wearing masks?" And if there isn't...then they lose credibility there.
Black Lives Matter.
- Defiant
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