EQ2 - Sony to release regular pay-only "adventure packs

The Mad Hatter · Post by **The Mad Hatter** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:14 pm

Found this at Gamespot. It could be a decent way to update the game, depending on how much they charge and what kind of content is released.

Article follows:

SOE talks EverQuest II updates
New "adventure pack" update model will attempt to deliver a personal story for players at a low price.

LAS VEGAS-Though a formal announcement won't be made until next week, we were able to spend some time with Sony Online Entertainment to discuss its forthcoming plans for updating the popular PC role-playing game, EverQuest II. With 310,000 paying subscribers on the books after just a couple of months, it sounds like the game has taken hold quite well since its release. With a forthcoming update that comes in a new form known as an "adventure pack," SOE hopes to deliver a more engrossing story for its players, complete with a new zone, new items, new monsters, and of course, new quests.

The first part of the adventure pack will come as a free download. All of the game's subscribers will be able to sink their swords into a new zone, fight new enemies, and so on. There will also be some new quests in this area for all players. Some of these quests will flesh out the lore behind the game's dark elf race and at least partially explain what has transpired in the 500 years that lie between the original EverQuest and EverQuest II. If players want to continue down this story path, they will have to pay what's been described as a "small fee" to download the rest of the adventure pack's content and continue on. Players that choose not to participate will still be allowed to adventure in this new zone and experience at least some of the new content. If the idea's a hit, SOE will likely follow with more adventure packs in the same vein. Some may continue where an existing adventure pack leaves off, though it's also possible that future content offerings may tell an entirely different story. If the price is right, EQII's adventure packs could be a cool solution to provide small chunks of more involving content on a more regular basis than you'd expect from the previous model of occasional expansion packs. That said, SOE certainly hasn't completely eliminated the concept of a retail expansion for EQII, either.

The first adventure pack is still being developed, and as a result, things like a level range for this new content, or the approximate time it will take the average player to experience all the upcoming content aren't available at this time. Availability and pricing information also haven't been announced, but both of these pieces of information, as well as the name of the first adventure pack, should be formally announced by SOE next week.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:23 pm

Just sounds like the standard SoE greed to me.

wire · Post by **wire** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:28 pm

Sigh...I'm enjoying EQ2 but I'm getting a little tired of them nickel and diming me for features that other online games give for free.

I hope there is a concerted effort by players to boycott paying for the extra content to send a message to Sony.

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:43 pm

Ah, $ony.

"Announcing the newest expansion: The Trials of Payusmoor! Coming soon direct to your desktop via Sony Online's patented Pay-Per-Quest technology!"

Mayor of Payusmoor: "Adventurer, we need you to retrieve the Cursed Amulet of Q'stomer Servuus, hidden somewhere in the Bogs of Unending Phees! Do you accept this quest?"

Darksword Stormbarrow: "Yes!"

Mayor of Payusmoor: "Excellent! Thank you, brave adventurer! How would you like to pay?

A. Visa
B. Mastercard
C. Amex
D. Paypal

We don't take Discover."

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:05 pm

I'd wait and see what exactly the new content is before griping that you have to pay for it. Neverwinter Nights offered new professionally built modules for a small fee, and people loved them.

Personally I like the idea. A low-cost mini-expansion every 2-3 months would be much more interesting than waiting 6 months to a year for a $30 expansion.

I just don't buy into the whole "greed" argument. Companies exist to make money. If people are willing to pay for a product, why shouldn't companies take advantage of that? No game developer has an obligation to provide us with free entertainment.

Caine · Post by **Caine** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:21 pm

in fact, a big patch just hit the scene last night and added a few new zones, a bunch of new solo-able quests, and a lot of fixes. if they were to offer smaller expansions that supported a range of levels and not just the upper tier, then i would be at least interested to see whats available.

imo, its much better to do something like this and add new stuff in smaller packs more often than wait for the retail box. i didn't make it to the swg expansion because of general boredom and dwindling guild population. this idea gives me something to look forward to that just might keep my interest. i am having more fun with this than swg though, so it's not as if the swg expansion would have kept me in game for long anyways.

The Preacher · Post by **The Preacher** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:32 pm

YellowKing wrote:I just don't buy into the whole "greed" argument. Companies exist to make money. If people are willing to pay for a product, why shouldn't companies take advantage of that? No game developer has an obligation to provide us with free entertainment.

I agree. The thing that makes me a little queasy about this is how close on the heels of launch it is. Can make you wonder if they held back content to sell it later.

But, hey, in the end, buy it or don't; people are free to talk with their wallet.

Gedd · Post by **Gedd** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:24 pm

Freezer-TPF- wrote:"Announcing the newest expansion: The Trials of Payusmoor! Coming soon direct to your desktop via Sony Online's patented Pay-Per-Quest technology!""

Hilarious Freezer.

YK, I think what makes folks point the greedy stick at SOE is the fact that it is so close to release that this annoucement is coming out and that they're making it sound like a fairly regular thing. Not to mention EQ did have quite a few expansion packs, eh? Folks bash the Sims all the time for the number of expansions that it had (and somewhat rightly so).

The question is how big these mini-expansions would be and how much they're going to cost. If SOE is charging folks for content updates that other folks release for free (I'm thinking of Cryptic and CoH here, heck even SWG qualifies), then yeah, I think you have to start wondering about what they're trying to set up here.

As for NWN, and in the same vein what Guild Wars is proposing, neither have monthly fees.

DiscoJason · Post by **DiscoJason** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:33 pm

Further clarification on EQ2 forums:

Think of them like modules for P&P adventure games. They're a smaller scale, self-containted storyline that adds onto the world with a more focused scope than a full-fledged expansion. They'll have a very reasonable price tag.

Keep in mind you'll get the first part for free, so everyone can enjoy a new zone whether you buy the rest or not.

The Adventure Packs aren't the only way we'll be adding content. Our Live Team is working on in-game events and storylines that will be surfacing in the coming weeks. Just as we added two new zones with this week's update, more free adventure areas will be coming in subsequent updates.

Beyond that, there will be full expansions that add significant new lands and features to the game.

Padre · Post by **Padre** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:50 pm

What disturbs me about this kind of thing is how the actual point of Massively Multiplayer Online Games - that you are within a living breatinhg word with LOADS of other people, is increasingly vanishing in a flurry of instanced content, seperate servers, optional expansions and self-contained dungeons.

What makes an MMO really Massive, these days? What do they do that can't be achieved by a regular variety of multiplayer online game? Undoubtedly they do some things, but it seems only a fraction of the potential of the concept is being realised. Instanced content and optional add-on packs aren't massively multplayer; they're just you and a bnch of mates against the game. All well and good, but I feel something important is being overlooked.

Faldarian · Post by **Faldarian** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:52 pm

Personally, I'm of the belief that an MMO's longevity and freshness depends strongly on the frequency and quality of its expansions. Without the expansions, how long ago would games like EQ and DaoC have died slow, horrible deaths?

More of a good thing is great with me, especially if the price is right.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:10 pm

Someday they will remake the classic UO in today's tech and the world will be right again.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:47 pm

What makes an MMO really Massive, these days? What do they do that can't be achieved by a regular variety of multiplayer online game? Undoubtedly they do some things, but it seems only a fraction of the potential of the concept is being realised. Instanced content and optional add-on packs aren't massively multplayer; they're just you and a bnch of mates against the game. All well and good, but I feel something important is being overlooked.

Yes, but lag and camping and rampant griefing suck royally.

It's kind of an interesting phenominon. The whole point of gaming, deep down, is to get together with friends/family and play the game. Gaming is a social event, and an intimate againt. It doesn't matter if it's Checkers, Axis & Allies, or Counterstrike with your college friends. Gaming online carries with it the ability to reach out and touch many more people and make many more friends, because that's what the intarweb does. Gaming is you and a bunch of mates against the game, or you and a bunch of mates against each other.

I think lots of people want the MM setting, but the ability to get intimate in that setting with friends, and without the hassles. I'm not saying that's the right way to do it; instanced content is just a way to do it, and it's an understandable one. I was under the impression this is what Richard Gariott was apparently envisioning way back when he pondered making U6 MM (he was still sane then, of course; and Tabula Rasa was supposed to be the "single palyer game in a multiplayer setting" at one point, I think. But Tabula Rasa will be the next generation's DNF, assuming DNF isn't the next generation's DNF. I digress).

The MM games that make use of instancing aren't a bad way to combine both models - you can still meet plenty of new people, and then game with them in a more intimate setting. It makes managing some of those negatives easier (either by shielding the player from them somewhat, or cutting them out of the equation).

Anyway, I can't speak for EQ2 but there's play of non-instanced stuff in WoW. Though the instanced dungeons tend to be meatier.

AttAdude · Post by **AttAdude** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:18 pm

wire wrote:Sigh...I'm enjoying EQ2 but I'm getting a little tired of them nickel and diming me for features that other online games give for free.

I hope there is a concerted effort by players to boycott paying for the extra content to send a message to Sony.

You do know they put in around 100 new quests and 2 zones about 24 hours ago right?

Meghan · Post by **Meghan** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:47 pm

I'd love to hear more about the new zones and quests. Is it too soon to ask for more impressions?

PD, I think you're right about the benefits of instancing. I'm just getting my feet wet in WoW and I haven't had any trouble meeting new players who want to duel or group. But it's nice to know that for the serious quests, or if I'm feeling unsocial, I can go to an instance and do my own thing for a bit.

Overall, I like the idea of little spearate modules that can be pusued individually. I suppose for me the sticking point would be what do they mean by "small fee"? $5 would be a bargain (theroetically) but $19.99 would be annoying. (theoretically.)

DiscoJason · Post by **DiscoJason** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:49 pm

Even more info from John Smedley about future plans for EQ2:

Hello fellow Norrathians,

In the months since EverQuest II has launched, we have seen an overwhelming response to the game. Here at SOE we've spent a great deal of time charting the future course of EverQuest II and laying out a roadmap for continuing to evolve the world of Norrath. I'd like to share that plan with you now.

The Team

Making a game like EQ II is an amazingly complex and wonderful thing to behold. It involves people from a variety of different areas of expertise such as design, sound, programming, art and of course a management team to make sure everything is coming together smoothly. During the course of the development of EverQuest II, the team grew to over 100 people in size (and that's just the development team, not including QA, CS, Operations and our Platform teams which brings the total to over 250)

What typically happens when making an MMO is that the "Live Team" that runs the game after it launches is usually a smaller subset of the team that developed the game. That team usually works on a combination of live updates and expansion packs that come out 1-2 times per year.

After listening to feedback from our players, we've decided to make a change to the way we've done things in the past, and focus on growing Norrath in new and exciting ways. This is going to mean keeping the team at it's existing size or even growing it in order to make sure we can do this the right way.

We see content being added to the game in three distinct ways: Live Updates, Expansion Packs and something new called Adventure Packs.

Live Updates

We plan on keeping the team that's focused on live updates working on expanding the game both through new zones, npcs, quests, features, spells, skills and new gameplay additions as well as fixing any bugs or issues that arise. All of this will be provided for free in constant updates that will come on a frequent basis roughly 1-2 times per month, depending on what we're specifically working on. All of this will be laid out on our website so you can have visibility into the exciting additions we have planned. We will be very responsive to our playerbase and we plan on incorporating a lot of the feedback you give us through the forums into these live updates. This will represent the core of how we evolve Norrath. I want to stress that we plan on upping the amount of new content that we give away for free.

I wanted to also point out that with respect to these live updates we will continue to put in a lot of new content for free.

In our most recent update we added:

- Two new dungeons
- Over two hundred new spells and combat arts
- User interface enhancements
- Dozens of new quests

With respect to our international customers, our plan is simple - to put out the English version of any new content to all servers and localize it as quickly as possible.. in many cases at the same time the update goes live. From what our international customers have told us, getting the new stuff in there is the most important thing and we've listened.

Expansion Packs

We plan on releasing 2 expansion packs a year. These expansion packs are going to be large, game altering additions to the game that will be sold both at retail and online via digital download. In the past, we've had one team that would work on an expansion pack, and then move on to the next one. This meant keeping a very fast paced schedule and the expansions smaller in scale due to the timeframe. We are changing the way we do things with EverQuest II. As of now we have two expansion pack teams that are working on different expansions...the first one is due to be released sometime in the second half of 2005, thus giving us more time to develop and add cool new things. In fact, you're also in for a pretty big surprise when you see our first expansion pack for EQ II sometime later this year. We aren't just focusing on the typical new content you've seen in past expansions to MMOs (our own included).. we're also focused on radically new gameplay elements that have never been seen before in online games.

For our international customers, we will be launching our localized expansions at almost the same time (hopefully within days) they get released in the US.

Adventure Packs

Adventure Packs are a new style of content that we are introducing to EverQuest II. You can think of them as being similar to "Modules" from traditional tabletop rpgs. They will be heavily story driven and themed adventuring areas. We will provide a part of each of these Adventure Packs for free to all of our players. This should give everyone the opportunity to see if a particular Adventure Pack is the kind of thing they are interested in. You'll be able to buy these at any time, since they will be delivered digitally. We plan on keeping the price point for these low.. in fact our first one will be just $4.99.

To give you an example of what we're talking about here... imagine a 5 level dungeon. The first level is a place that everyone will get for free. In order to adventure to the lower levels of the dungeon, you'll need to purchase the Adventure Pack. This gives you the chance to see if this particular Adventure Pack is something you're interested in.

We plan on keeping the Adventure packs coming on a very regular basis.. somewhere between 2 and 4 per year depending on what exactly we're doing.

We also will be giving Station Access members these Adventure Packs as part of their Station Access subscription, provided they have been members for at least 2 months (more specifics about this will be out shortly).

For our international customers, we plan on releasing the English versions at the same time and the localized versions shortly thereafter. Everyone will be able to play at the same time, and the localization should be finished shortly thereafter.

So, as you can see we plan on some pretty major things to be happening in the world of EverQuest II. We believe investing in the future of Norrath and providing the best possible game and service is the right thing to do for our players.

We welcome any comments you may have.

Thank You,

John Smedley
President, Sony Online Entertainment

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:12 pm

They're going the way of NWN.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:18 pm

PD, I think you're right about the benefits of instancing. I'm just getting my feet wet in WoW and I haven't had any trouble meeting new players who want to duel or group. But it's nice to know that for the serious quests, or if I'm feeling unsocial, I can go to an instance and do my own thing for a bit.

I'm not suggesting that a non-instanced game is a bad idea (and they did do well, once). I doubt it would get my money.

It's a shame so many people are so maladjusted socially they have to take it out on people in an anonymous online setting. Griefers suck, and they're breeding.

Also, MMORPG game mechanics revolve around killing, killing, and killing (EQ2's "crafting classes" are interesting and more removed from that than you typically see, so it would seem). It's kind of hard to get away from camping with that. One way would be to have enough wonderful, fantastic, content filled, detailed, exciting areas to explore at any given "range" in the game for a player. And give each one enough content (and loot) that there isn't any one that is a *must* have (unless it's specific to "must have for hammer wielding seal clubbers" or "must have for mace wielding seal clubbers" - something specific in other words). but that's pretty hard ro pull off as near as I can tell (resources are not unlimited). I wonder how many people are playing WoW and EQ2 at peak hours?

wire · Post by **wire** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:57 pm

Smedley kept saying free content...umm no when I'm paying a monthly fee I don't consider new content free. Now if I didn't have to pay a monthly charge after I initially purchased it and then they added content without charging then it would be free.

Meghan · Post by **Meghan** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:59 pm

well when they're making a distinction between extra areas you have to pay extra for and extra areas you don't pay extra for I think calling the later "free" is reasonable. You're paying the money to play in the world they already released. They don't have to give you anything extra, free or otherwise. Giving you stuff keeps you involved and a long term customer but they don't need to do anything else and you'd still need to pay the monthly fee.

$4.99 for an adventure module seems like a pretty interesting approach (again, theoretically.)

Instance dungeons go a long way in bringing some sense of (forgive me) realism to the game. It's much harder to keep that suspension of disbelief going when there's a bunch of other people all doing the same thing right next to you.

Scooby Doo · Post by **Scooby Doo** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:53 pm

Meghan wrote:You're paying the money to play in the world they already released. They don't have to give you anything extra, free or otherwise. Giving you stuff keeps you involved and a long term customer but they don't need to do anything else and you'd still need to pay the monthly fee.

I have to respectfully disagree, Meghan. With an MMO, I don't view it as paying a monthly fee for the world they already released. I view the first $50 purchase price of the game covers that (with the 1 month of online service always included with the initial box purchase of the game).

The $15 monthly fee is not just for server rental time with the initially released product. It also is meant to cover a dynamically changing world environment. Isn't that a big sales pitch for MMO games? At least I've been under that impression and I've been playing MMOs since the early Ultima Online days.

I buy stand-alone games for playing with the content that was released with the box I just purchased. I don't pay, nor expect that, for $15 a month fee.

Now I also purchase and have no problems with the concept of expansion packs. If the content is great enough, it's a buy for me. But to say that an MMO's $15 fee doesn't cover continual and added content that is a lesser volume than an expansion pack, well, I don't agree with that.

SOE may seem inclined in seeing how far they can get away with nickel and diming their customers. They started first with SWG and the one character per account. Then EQII is begun with only 4 characters per account, of which they then changed to 8 characters per account if you purchased their $22 per month plan. This while they had, what, 8 characters per server with EQ, and with WOW having, I also believe 8 characters per server.

Geez, pretty soon are you going to actually have to purchase a +2 Broadsword (sorry, can't refrain from old D&D linguo) with real money.

I just don't like the trend. However, I think the competitive pressure from WOW will, in the long run, keep SOE in check, but dang, seeing the butt whoopin', subscriber numberwise, they are getting right now, I would think they would be more inclinded right now to be talking about all the cool new content, additions, and adjustments they are making, or planning to make, without subscribing an additional dollar value to it.

Faldarian · Post by **Faldarian** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:13 am

Scooby Doo wrote: I have to respectfully disagree, Meghan. With an MMO, I don't view it as paying a monthly fee for the world they already released. I view the first $50 purchase price of the game covers that (with the 1 month of online service always included with the initial box purchase of the game).

The $15 monthly fee is not just for server rental time with the initially released product. It also is meant to cover a dynamically changing world environment. Isn't that a big sales pitch for MMO games? At least I've been under that impression and I've been playing MMOs since the early Ultima Online days.

It's a subscription fee. You pay it for the service, like with your cable; you can get cable, and buy extra channels for it for more a month. If you want premium packages with extra movies etc., you pay yet more a month. It's a similar model for MMO's.

Yes, there have been MMO's that released large packs of free content. The only one that I know of without a rate hike afterward is CoH (Mythic just announced it's raising the subscription fees for DaoC).

I buy stand-alone games for playing with the content that was released with the box I just purchased. I don't pay, nor expect that, for $15 a month fee.

Right, and you shouldn't. But single player games don't have the inherent costs of customer service, fully staffed programmers after the game releases for bug fixes and updates at a steady rate, and bandwidth... that's what your $15 a month is for as a subscription, to maintain and update the game you bought.

Now I also purchase and have no problems with the concept of expansion packs. If the content is great enough, it's a buy for me. But to say that an MMO's $15 fee doesn't cover continual and added content that is a lesser volume than an expansion pack, well, I don't agree with that.

Why? It's being able to pick and choose the parts of the expansion that you want. If you'd never go to the quest area in the pack...don't buy it. You didn't wind up paying for it since it's developed separately from the retail expansion you wanted. The time to develop the content in the adventure pack wasn't taken away from the time spent on the retail pack OR on the bug fixes because you paid extra for it... and allowed them to assign resources toward making it that weren't part of the other efforts.

SOE may seem inclined in seeing how far they can get away with nickel and diming their customers. They started first with SWG and the one character per account. Then EQII is begun with only 4 characters per account, of which they then changed to 8 characters per account if you purchased their $22 per month plan. This while they had, what, 8 characters per server with EQ, and with WOW having, I also believe 8 characters per server.

What about FFXI, where you got 1 character if I remember right and had to pay $.99 a month for each extra?

I'd love to have 8 character slots in EQ2, but I don't because it's not worth the extra money a month. I do like having the option, though, should I want it later on. I don't need all the EQ2Players stuff, so I only pay for the parts of it I want.

Geez, pretty soon are you going to actually have to purchase a +2 Broadsword (sorry, can't refrain from old D&D linguo) with real money.

Actually, D&D is a good reference. They did a lot of the same stuff by charging $20 for all kinds of additional books you didn't really need. If you wanted them, they were great; you could still play D&D just fine without them, though.

I just don't like the trend. However, I think the competitive pressure from WOW will, in the long run, keep SOE in check, but dang, seeing the butt whoopin', subscriber numberwise, they are getting right now, I would think they would be more inclinded right now to be talking about all the cool new content, additions, and adjustments they are making, or planning to make, without subscribing an additional dollar value to it.

Actually, I think that's what prompted it. With this, SOE can put out rapid fire expansion packs and new content for hardcore players without adding the cost to casual players or their retail expansions. WoW's big additions on the way were planned for retail release and didn't make it, from what I understand...there's a difference, which is also evident from Sony releasing the big ass patch they did yesterday for EQ2 with a bunch of new fixes and things to do.

The "butt whoopin" is kind of an overstatement, too. EQ2's servers are all full, with two more opening next Tuesday. WoW has more subscribers, but honestly it's things like the adventure packs that will keep subscribers for a longer term; the life of an MMO doesn't rest only in the game itself, but how well it proceeds and grows with the expansions that keep it fresh and interesting.

I like it that they are trying new things, frankly, instead of just doing the same old.

tals · Post by **tals** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:23 am

From the Sony Board:

I've been reading this thread and would like to respond to some of your
comments

1) SOE should be giving these Adventure Packs for free as part of my
subscription - I want to emphatically stress that these Adventure Packs are
over and above the large amount of free content we have planned. We don't
think these Adventure Packs will be for everyone. In fact, we're assuming
they won't be for everyone. Our goal with them is to offer much more themed
storylines or dungeons that we otherwise wouldn't be developing. A great
example might be (please note this is merely an example) the Lost Tomb of
the Troll King - this particular Adventure Pack might focus on quests and a
storyling that's mostly exciting for trolls. Chances are we wouldn't ever
have done that ordinarily because when we're doing content we have to make
it appeal to a much broader part of our playerbase. This is really a chance
for us to tell cool stories and do things that not everyone might jump at.

2) Fix the bugs before you start charging us more - let me address that
directly.. Although the quality of EverQuest 2 is already very high, we are
making hot fixes to the game on a constant day by day basis. We plan on
continuing this trend and even increasing the tempo of fixes and additions
to a much higher pace.

John Smedley
President, Sony Online Entertainment

Scooby Doo · Post by **Scooby Doo** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:42 am

Faldarian wrote:
Scooby Doo wrote: I have to respectfully disagree, Meghan. With an MMO, I don't view it as paying a monthly fee for the world they already released. I view the first $50 purchase price of the game covers that (with the 1 month of online service always included with the initial box purchase of the game).

The $15 monthly fee is not just for server rental time with the initially released product. It also is meant to cover a dynamically changing world environment. Isn't that a big sales pitch for MMO games? At least I've been under that impression and I've been playing MMOs since the early Ultima Online days.
It's a subscription fee. You pay it for the service, like with your cable; you can get cable, and buy extra channels for it for more a month. If you want premium packages with extra movies etc., you pay yet more a month. It's a similar model for MMO's.

Yes, there have been MMO's that released large packs of free content. The only one that I know of without a rate hike afterward is CoH (Mythic just announced it's raising the subscription fees for DaoC).

I think you may have misconstrued what my concerns were. I fully understand and even appreciate the business model for expansion packs and had mentioned in my previous post about having no problems with additional costs for large packs of new content. I've played all the popular MMOs since Ultima Online and have purchased almost every expansion pack available for each gaming environment times two (since my daughter also plays MMOs).
I don't have a problem with that. My concern is that if SOE moves away from the "free" content that has typically been part of the $15 per month service fee and begins to include that in a pay as you go plan.

Faldarian wrote:
Scooby Doo wrote:I buy stand-alone games for playing with the content that was released with the box I just purchased. I don't pay, nor expect that, for $15 a month fee.
Right, and you shouldn't. But single player games don't have the inherent costs of customer service, fully staffed programmers after the game releases for bug fixes and updates at a steady rate, and bandwidth... that's what your $15 a month is for as a subscription, to maintain and update the game you bought.

But single player games do have customer service and programmer costs for the game after initial release. Well, unfortunately some drop the ball on that, but most do quite well with supporting their game after release (id, Valve, Blizzard, etc., etc.). That all is supplied within the cost of the $50 original purchase price. You don't pay for the bug patches and tweaks.

MMOs have the justification, rightfully so, of charging a monthly fee for their game, of which without paying that monthly fee, you can't play it. NO nadda, nothing. The $50 original purchase plays the game for 1 month. After that, without the $15 a month, you're S.O.L. without paying the monthly subscription fee. That's all well and good, but the $15 has not traditionally been for just bandwidth. It also covers for the support of continuing a dynamic world and not a static world of which just came out of the retail box.

I have 2 active EQ accounts (both with all expansions, but one). Two active EQ2 accounts, and two active WOW accounts (I've recently deactivated my two AO accounts), as both my daughter and I play (sidenote: We're not power levelers and we don't play constantly, just have fun when we do).

As much as I have enjoyed WOW, AO, DAoC, and UO in the past, EQ (and now EQ2) are and continue to be mine and my daughter's favorite MMOs, so I'm not a fan boi of WOW (or some other game) on the attack against SOE and EQ2 (not that anyone stated that, but just wanted to clarify, nonetheless).

I'm just concerned with the possibility that SOE may gravitate toward fees for services and content that they had traditionally supplied with the monthly fee.

Faldarian wrote:...it's things like the adventure packs that will keep subscribers for a longer term; the life of an MMO doesn't rest only in the game itself, but how well it proceeds and grows with the expansions that keep it fresh and interesting.

I like it that they are trying new things, frankly, instead of just doing the same old.

Agreed. As long as not doing the same old, same old, trends toward only giving pay (if you want) options to their customers for elements that they supplied with the subscription fee in the past and which main competitors still provide within the subscription fee.

SOE is talking all the right talk, at the moment, concerning how their Adventure Packs will not interfere with that, but I honestly am worried that they may move more toward a pay as you go fee (beyond the regular subscription fee) for any new content/changes, etc.
If they adhere to what they are saying right now, then I do agree with you, Faldarian, that the Adventure Pack additions to their content (with the additional purchase price) is a good thing. If the Adventure Packs system evolves to then include a Quest Pack system where no new quests are included and added with the monthly fee and also must be purchased, well, that's no good.
EQ2's recent big patch includes, what, 100 or so new quests. That's cool. I hope they will continue to provide those type of updates along with their soon to be introduced specialty content.

DiscoJason · Post by **DiscoJason** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:33 am

Scooby Doo wrote:I don't have a problem with that. My concern is that if SOE moves away from the "free" content that has typically been part of the $15 per month service fee and begins to include that in a pay as you go plan.

If you read the letter I posted from John Smedley, you will see that they are still going to put in plenty of free content. He stated in another message that the adventure packs aer things that not all players might even be likely to buy when they come out. He gave an example of a Troll King adventure pack that maybe only troll characters would be interested in doing.

Scooby Doo · Post by **Scooby Doo** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:37 am

DiscoJason wrote:
Scooby Doo wrote:I don't have a problem with that. My concern is that if SOE moves away from the "free" content that has typically been part of the $15 per month service fee and begins to include that in a pay as you go plan.
If you read the letter I posted from John Smedley, you will see that they are still going to put in plenty of free content. He stated in another message that the adventure packs aer things that not all players might even be likely to buy when they come out. He gave an example of a Troll King adventure pack that maybe only troll characters would be interested in doing.

I did read Smedley's comments, that is what I was referring to here.

Scooby Doo wrote:SOE is talking all the right talk, at the moment, concerning how their Adventure Packs will not interfere with that, but I honestly am worried that they may move more toward a pay as you go fee (beyond the regular subscription fee) for any new content/changes, etc.