Rank your favorite Souls/Souls-likes

[coopasonic]

There was a bit of a discussion on this in the Lies of P threads and I thought it would be interesting to see everyone else's thoughts. I'll take a first stab at it.

I am sure I am missing some here, but these are the ones I remember. Feel free to use whatever definition of Souls-like you prefer.

1. The Surge
2. Elden Ring
3. Bloodborne
4. Remnant: From the Ashes
5. Nioh
6. Nioh 2
7. The Surge 2
8. Demon's Souls (PS5)
9. Remnant 2
10. Lies of P
11. Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty
12. Sekiro - DID NOT FINISH
13. Code Vein
14. Steel Rising
15. Dark Souls 3
16. Dark Souls - DID NOT FINISH
17. Dark Souls 2 - DID NOT FINISH

[Jaymann]

1. Elden Ring
2. Elden Ring
3. Elden Ring

[Punisher]

Whats the definition of souls/soulslike?

[coopasonic]

Whats the definition of souls/soulslike?

There isn't really hard definition. Generally I would say they are games that are difficult without generally having any difficulty settings. Where even common enemies can destroy you if you aren't focused. They pretty much all have a death mechanic where you lose some form of currency used to level up when you die and defeating the enemy that killed you gets you that currency back. There are checkpoint saves that refill your health and healing items but also respawn most enemies. Exploration and finding/unlocking shortcuts and discovering hidden items and sometimes even bosses is a thing.

I'd also personally limit it to first/third person 3d action games. There are similar 2d games, but I'd call those metroidvanias. There is a lot of similarity but the 2d vs 3d puts them in a different bucket for me. Jedi Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor kind of fall in between, basically being 3d metroidvanias.

[Scraper]

I have beaten every single one of these games, with the exception of the Surge games. Many of them I've played through more than once (Elden Ring, Souls3, Souls 1, Bloodborne). You did leave out Lords of the Fallen 14 and 23, I would rank both of them above the Surge series. I really loved Sekiro but for some reason I only played through it one time. I also really liked Lies of P and will more than likely play through it again when the DLC releases.

1. Elden Ring
2. Sekiro
3. Dark Souls 3
4. Bloodborne
5. Demon's Souls (PS5)
6. Lies of P
7. Dark Souls
8. Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty
9. Nioh
10. Nioh 2
11. The Surge 2
12. The Surge

[coopasonic]

You did leave out Lords of the Fallen 14 and 23

To clarify, that was my ranking, not a comprehensive list. I’ve not played the Lords of the Fallen games. I did forget Steel Rising. I think there are probably a couple others. There was a more anime fan-service-y one I played a few years ago also, Code Vein, thanks google. Also forgot Remnant 1/2.

[Scraper]

You did leave out Lords of the Fallen 14 and 23

To clarify, that was my ranking, not a comprehensive list. I’ve not played the Lords of the Fallen games. I did forget Steel Rising. I think there are probably a couple others. There was a more anime fan-service-y one I played a few years ago also, Code Vein, thanks google. Also forgot Remnant 1/2.

I'm still pissed off about that last boss in Remnant 2, so I would rank that dead last. I did beat Steel Rising, it was pretty similar to Lies of P, but it wasn't nearly as good as Lies of P. Also, I didn't enjoy Code Vein, I've never managed to finish a playthrough on that one.

[hepcat]

1. Elden Ring
2. Remnant 2
3. Bloodborne
4. Dark Souls 3
5. Dark Souls 2
6. Demon Souls

I need to try the others on the lists above. Sounds like I might be in for some fun souls-adjacent gaming in the near future!

[GreenGoo]

I know I should comment here, but I'm having trouble putting them in any sort of order.

The remake of Demon Souls was very clean and well done, imo. I finished it multiple times with different builds.

The Surge has a special place in my heart, because it might have been the first (or possibly second Souls-like I played). I also found the combat crisp and responsive and the setting is kind of cool. Only 2 or 3 playthroughs though. Haven't played #2.

I have a billion hours in Dark Souls, yet have never finished it. I just get bored and want to try a new build. Over and over again. In the end it's not very good, but it's important from a historical perspective, and that's why I keep trying to finish it. I refuse to play II and III until I finish I, and so far that hasn't happened. Honestly, once I finish the first one, I doubt I'll ever try the next two. Just not my setting, I guess.

Sekiro was just an amazing experience. All the weirdness of Dark Souls, but with clean combat and I liked that the combat was not binary. Miss a perfect parry? Well here's a partial parry for you. Half damage (or whatever). Played through twice. Notoriously difficult.

Elden Ring sits gathering dust. I have it for the PS5, but I always find something else to do. One day.

Remnant. I couldn't get into this one playing solo, and couldn't find anyone to multiplayer with me. I barely started it. It *looks* cool though. Don't own II.

Sifu. I'm playing it right now. The combat is very good, and it feels amazing when you Kung Fu a large group of enemies, but I seem to have hit a skill ceiling, and that makes me sad. I see people online doing amazing things in game, but I can only do about 1/2 of what is possible. Finished the first 4 stages a zillion times, but have not finished stage 5 (which is the final stage) yet, as I've been practicing the combat on lower stages.

Bloodborne didn't grab me. I started to get the hang of the combat but then I moved on to something else. I was very late to the game though, as I played it for the first time on the PS5.

Nioh. Amazing game. Just loved it, loved the combat, loved how the different weapon sets played differently, and loved all that my alts play very differently. Finished it like a billion times. Never installed #2.

No Lords of the Fallen experience.

No Lies of P experience.

Mortal Shell looks interesting. Have only played through the tutorial and early stage. I did not pick it up quickly (skill-wise).

Star Wars Jedi (first one). A very fun game. Souls-like combat with lightsabres, loved it. Finished it a billion times but in the end it just didn't have a lot of replayability, due to lack of variety in character playstyle. No experience with second one. On the easier end of things.

I think we're talking about only 3rd person Souls-likes, but:

Hollow Knight was quite good. I didn't finish it but I had fun playing it.

Vigil: Longest Night. Not great, but not bad. Lovercraftian overtones helped.

Blasphemous. Don't have it. Want to try it.

I feel like there are more that I'm missing but, that's all I could come up with right now.

[coopasonic]

I'm still pissed off about that last boss in Remnant 2, so I would rank that dead last.

My son and I replayed it recently after the Lost Kingdom DLC came out and we beat the final boss on the first try. I think they may have toned it down some as we certainly didn't get that much better and our gear wasn't even maxed out.

[Punisher]

Whats the definition of souls/soulslike?

There isn't really hard definition. Generally I would say they are games that are difficult without generally having any difficulty settings. Where even common enemies can destroy you if you aren't focused. They pretty much all have a death mechanic where you lose some form of currency used to level up when you die and defeating the enemy that killed you gets you that currency back. There are checkpoint saves that refill your health and healing items but also respawn most enemies. Exploration and finding/unlocking shortcuts and discovering hidden items and sometimes even bosses is a thing.

I'd also personally limit it to first/third person 3d action games. There are similar 2d games, but I'd call those metroidvanias. There is a lot of similarity but the 2d vs 3d puts them in a different bucket for me. Jedi Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor kind of fall in between, basically being 3d metroidvanias.

Ahh..
In that case I'd say life. Not the game, just life in general...

Doesn't sound like something I've played in the past and not something I'd be interested in with a trainer maybe. Might look into a trainee for that Elden game though and see.

[Blackhawk]

I'm watching with morbid interest. Someday I'll tackle a soulslike or two. Someday.

[Lordnine]

Whats the definition of souls/soulslike?

I'd also personally limit it to first/third person 3d action games. There are similar 2d games, but I'd call those metroidvanias.

I would say that Souls-likes are just 3D metroidvanias for masochists.

My definition would be be games that have a "souls" collection and loss mechanic tied to upgrades, incentives for exploration, upgrade mechanics for both stats and equipment, and a focus on difficult enemy encounters.

My list is mostly 2D. I actually finished the first 4!

1. Hollow Knight
2. Elden Ring
3. Salt and Sanctuary
4. Blasphemous
...
...
Got frustrated and bored so gave up on these ones really fast
5. Nioh
6. Bloodborne
...
...
I hated this game so much that I refused to even touch something in the genre for over 10 years.
7. Demon's Souls

[hitbyambulance]

I haven't played much in the 3D realm - Nioh, Mortal Shell, and Dark Souls (original and remake)

i would like 'Metroidvanias' where the animation doesn't look like paper doll cutouts (Abyss Odyssey is unique looking, but suffers from this fault. Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night and Capsized as well.)

[Torfish]

1. Elden Ring (loved everything about it)
2. Bloodbourne
3. Dark Souls 2
4. Sekiro
5. Dark Souls 3
6. Dark Souls
7. Nioh

[GreenGoo]

and Dark Souls (original and remake)

I'd just like to point out that these are nearly identical versions with tiny, tiny, tiny changes. I have the original on my PC and I have the quote/unquote remaster on the switch. I've played both of them consecutively/alternating over a period of weeks. I couldn't tell you which was which except that I know which one is the switch version, and mutliplayer still works on the switch (which really isn't a function of the version, only that Nintendo is maintaining it, whereas it's dead on the PC).

They should be embarrassed to call it a "remaster" and for bilking people for more money for a version that most people would rather not play. General concensus is that the original is the better version (the reasons escape me at the moment).

Demon Souls is a remake. Dark Souls is...shameful.

Note: This is directed at whoever made the remaster and/or allowed it to go forward as is. Not directed at Hitbyambulance.

[hitbyambulance]

Note: This is directed at whoever made the remaster and/or allowed it to go forward as is. Not directed at Hitbyambulance.

i get it. what's funny is i've personally found the old version plays pretty OK on a lot of older PC hardware/GPUs, but they struggle with the 'remake'.

(in any case, i got the new version in a bundle with DS II and III, and paid for it with BitCoin. then my hard drive with the BTC wallet crashed and i'm so far unable to retrieve it... so i guess that bundle was 'free')

[Hipolito]

I've only played the original Demon's Souls on PS3. Loved it, but haven't tried another one. If I were to play another one, I might go for Elden Ring, Hollow Knight, or Another Crab's Treasure.

[GreenGoo]

or Another Crab's Treasure.

I almost mentioned this one as something I'm curious about, but in the end it's not even on my wishlist. I hear good things about it though, and it looks like fun.

[GreenGoo]

Omg, lol. I watched an old episode of house and they were discussing a disease that wasn't blood born.

I played just enough of Bloodborne to have a vague idea it's about werewolves (which I find yawn inducing. Werewolves have no appeal for me).

The point here, is that I did not recognize the name of the game and associate it with the apocalypse that is destroying the town/world/whatever. At least not that it was a blood born affliction.

Wow. Dense. I actually find it hilarious that these enormous blind spots exist for me. It's so weird.

[Lordnine]

I played just enough of Bloodborne to have a vague idea it's about werewolves (which I find yawn inducing. Werewolves have no appeal for me).

Bloodborne is actually a lot more interesting than that. Check out this video.



I couldn't get into the gameplay personally but the setting is fascinating.

[GreenGoo]

Oh, I'm sure there are all sorts of fascinating things in there, just like Dark Souls.

I'm not that interested in becoming a Bloodborne scholar to find them though. Or worse, have to watch a video by a Bloodborne scholar.

I'm being facetious, but the Dark Souls story is notoriously obtuse and and hidden from the player. Having played a little of Bloodborne (first couple of bosses, I guess) I feel Bloodborne is the same way. Which is totally fine, but if they wanted me to have an accurate understanding of the storyline, they probably shouldn't have buried it on obscure item descriptions etc.

[hepcat]

I mean, you say it yourself: that's just the Dark Souls/Demon Souls/Elden Ring way.

I loved Bloodborne's setting. I don't think I ever thought it was all about werewolves though. There were far more enemies than that, even at the start.

In other news, I finally restarted the Demon Souls remake on ps5 this week after this thread reminded me I had it. I don't know why it fell to the wayside early on. I'm guessing other games got in the way. But I'm now fully back to enjoying a souls game.

[GreenGoo]

I mean, you say it yourself: that's just the Dark Souls/Demon Souls/Elden Ring way.

Yeah, it sucks in Dark Souls too. But my point was that my superficial take on the story of Bloodborne is their own damn fault. It took me awhile to even make the werewolf connection, despite one of the first bosses being a werewolf! I'm not even remotely surprised to find out it's not about werewolves after all, because I don't actually know what it's about. I can't even remember what the premise is.

I *could* watch youtube videos to find out what's actually going on, and I did in fact do that for Dark Souls (which was disappointing), but Bloodborne is not my cup of tea, so I'm not likely to do research to find the storyline hidden in the game world.

The only reason I'm coming out here swinging (I don't really care one way or the other about the story delivery method, story is very low on my priority list for souls-likes) is the idea that my surface level understanding of the story could be corrected if only I would read the description of the emerald ring and combine that with the text from the werewolf summoning book in the library to find out that that chancellor whocares wants the apocalypse to continue because...see the iron crown description for more.

As you say, FromSoft has a habit of writing obtuse plots, then breaking it into pieces to scatter around the world. That's totally fine, and a lot of people love it. But here's the thing. You risk your players saying things like "Bloodborne is about werewolves".

Good luck with Demon Souls. I have no idea what the original was like, but the remake has excellent, smooth combat and pretty graphics. Good enough.

[GreenGoo]

I know Bloodborne is one of Coop's favourites, but it didn't grab me after several tries. I still might return to it one day.

I do like the idea that if you are aggressive enough, you can get hit and recover most of the hp you lost. It's a great design choice and pushes the player to be more aggressive, which in a Souls game usually has negative consequences until you master the combat. Bloodborne rewards it. Awesome.

[hepcat]

I wish they'd do a remake of it like they did with Demon Souls. I got about 50 hours into it when something else distracted me. I didn't return until I got a PS5. At that point, I made the damn mistake of opening it on the ps5 before syncing with the save game in the cloud, which then overwrote my old save with the new game save. I just couldn't bring myself to play through it all again after I realized I had to start from the beginning. I think it's because the later souls games have spoiled me with their graphics/enhancements.

[GreenGoo]

There are constant calls for a remake of Bloodborne. I feel like it's popularity is only slightly behind Dark Souls over all, and Dark Souls has 3 instances of it. That's pretty good for a one off.

I would be much more likely to revisit it if it were remade. And because it was Coop's favourite, I was very excited when I got a PS5 and Bloodborne was part of their subscription service. It might be the first game I downloaded. I can see it's a good game. I just drifted away, like I do with so many other games.

I didn't mean to be so critical in my previous post. I seem to be grumpy today.

[hepcat]

No harm. Folks are allowed to like and dislike games.

[coopasonic]

I will say that I thought the story was far less obtuse in Bloodborne than in most other From games. Sekiro is even more clear about the story. Now can I remember what the story was actually about? No. That was a long time ago and I play a lot of games.

Lies of P has the same mechanic as Bloodborne where you can recover health by going on the offensive. I like that mechanic.

[GreenGoo]

Lies of P has the same mechanic as Bloodborne where you can recover health by going on the offensive. I like that mechanic.

Excellent.

Of the Souls-likes I've played, I wonder which ones I remember the story for. I might think about this. I remember Sekiro, but I played it for longer.

[Scraper]

I will say that I thought the story was far less obtuse in Bloodborne than in most other From games. Sekiro is even more clear about the story. Now can I remember what the story was actually about? No. That was a long time ago and I play a lot of games.

Lies of P has the same mechanic as Bloodborne where you can recover health by going on the offensive. I like that mechanic.

The new Lords of the Fallen sort of has that mechanic too. When you block or have other events happen part of your health will get grayed out. If you hit an enemy it will refill. But if the enemy hits you it goes away along with your health.

[GreenGoo]

I like it.

[hepcat]

I liked the first Lords of the Fallen. How's this new one? Is it as good? Or did they make some changes folks are not happy with?

[hitbyambulance]

There are constant calls for a remake of Bloodborne.

there are also constant calls for a PC port

I liked the first Lords of the Fallen. How's this new one? Is it as good? Or did they make some changes folks are not happy with?

there is a partial thread here:

https://octopusoverlords.com/forum/view ... 0#p2998090

[GreenGoo]

There are constant calls for a remake of Bloodborne.

there are also constant calls for a PC port

Yeah, I'm likely conflating the two.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Whats the definition of souls/soulslike?

I'd say they're perhaps best described as a distinct subgenre of third-person action role-playing games, characterized by their unforgiving combat, somewhat steep learning curves, precise combat mechanics, and an emphasis on environmental storytelling. They often also feature interconnected world designs, with a strong focus on exploration and discovery. Difficulty usually stems from testing the player's ability to master intricate combat mechanics, e.g. split-second timing in dodging attacks, adapting to each enemy's unique attack patterns, and finding the correct manoeuvrers to overcome a boss's impenetrable defences. So, the challenge comes from mastering precise timing and positioning to overcome formidable enemies, often resulting in punishing deaths that necessarily force strategic reconsideration in order to progress. Which may sound something like a Roguelite. But Roguelike games typically encourage players to try again and again with incremental improvements and boosts between runs. But Soulslike games tend to offer no such boons to their players between deaths, so you just have to suck it up, and keep trying.

[Reemul]

I love teh settings and idea o them but I am absolutely useless at those sorts of games. I cannot repeat and rinse ever. I am teh ultimate easy level gamer, never play any game higher than easy and that soon became a crutch, I just never had teh time previuosly to play at a higher difficulty.

My favourite is Elden Ring because I modded it to be really easy and am about 40% through at them moment. I may do that with some of the others if I can

[hepcat]

Whats the definition of souls/soulslike?

I'd say they're perhaps best described as a distinct subgenre of third-person action role-playing games, characterized by their unforgiving combat, somewhat steep learning curves, precise combat mechanics, and an emphasis on environmental storytelling. They often also feature interconnected world designs, with a strong focus on exploration and discovery. Difficulty usually stems from testing the player's ability to master intricate combat mechanics, e.g. split-second timing in dodging attacks, adapting to each enemy's unique attack patterns, and finding the correct manoeuvrers to overcome a boss's impenetrable defences. So, the challenge comes from mastering precise timing and positioning to overcome formidable enemies, often resulting in punishing deaths that necessarily force strategic reconsideration in order to progress. Which may sound something like a Roguelite. But Roguelike games typically encourage players to try again and again with incremental improvements and boosts between runs. But Soulslike games tend to offer no such boons to their players between deaths, so you just have to suck it up, and keep trying.

Or just continually grinding lower level enemies until you get strong enough to make a hard battle trivial.

[GreenGoo]

I cannot repeat and rinse ever.

I'm the exact opposite.

I play the same content over and over and over again. If the combat is fun, then I can keep going. If you can make wildly different character builds, I can keep going forever. I currently have 30ish alts in Grim Dawn, never having finished the game once, and have not finished Sifu, despite having most of the achievements from the earlier levels (i.e. finishing the earlier levels repeatedly), including saving all the bosses (except final). Saving the bosses requires you have some competence at the boss fight first.

Honestly, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I'm having fun, so I don't think about it much.

[Blackhawk]

I generally dislike doing the same thing over and over. I sometimes think it comes down to why you play games. If you're the type that thinks in terms of mechanics and challenges, then repeating something to get it right makes sense. It's the gaming equivalent of iteration - start off with a prototype and keep tweaking it until you're happy (or you survive.) If you primarily enjoy the narrative and/or the immersive experience (this is me), then repeating the same section feels like reading a great novel, but reading every third chapter six or eight times.