OK, what then is your theory why the location was so isolated and not in a large tech facility with many scientists and other artisans working on them? I suspect Nathan has seen these kind of movies before and knew how it would turn out. The sequel is a wilderness horror flick followed by an urban horror flick.Zaxxon wrote:You're projecting, Jeff.
[movie] Ex Machina
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
You just read the synopsis on Rotten Tomatoes, didn't you?
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
You're doing it again. I already provided answers to these questions, straight from the horse's mouth, earlier in the thread.
The movie is not a 'they are coming for us' film *at all*. Ava has very specific motivations for every action she takes, and they are apparent to me after a few watches. Don't really care to RM9 this shizzle, though.
It's possible my interpretation is wrong and yours correct, but I'm doubtful based on my reading of Garland.
The movie is not a 'they are coming for us' film *at all*. Ava has very specific motivations for every action she takes, and they are apparent to me after a few watches. Don't really care to RM9 this shizzle, though.
It's possible my interpretation is wrong and yours correct, but I'm doubtful based on my reading of Garland.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Then where did you read the synopsis for Ex Machina? Because I gotta tell ya, that site needs to get a writer who is capable of deeper thought.Jeff V wrote:I never go to that site.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Jeff V wrote:Lordnine wrote:Jeff V wrote:Spoiler:Spoiler:Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
The movie was all style, little substance. What deeper thoughts are you imagining?hepcat wrote:Then where did you read the synopsis for Ex Machina? Because I gotta tell ya, that site needs to get a writer who is capable of deeper thought.Jeff V wrote:I never go to that site.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
When you set your mind to hatin' somethin', their ain't no power on Earth that can sway you, is there? Facts be damned!
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
That guy will reach China before Jeff ever admits he's wrong.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
When did I say I hated the movie? It was a shallow, derivative plot that was done in style. My rating was above average. Where do you get hate from?hepcat wrote:When you set your mind to hatin' somethin', their ain't no power on Earth that can sway you, is there? Facts be damned!
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
It seemed more polite to say you hated it, rather than telling you the truth.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
While I think Jeff is over the top. I somewhat agree with what he's saying and its a recurring theme in Alex Garland films. In sunshine, strong themes of control, harmony, sacrifice, ultimately a slasher movie because wanton violence trumps philosophy; 28 days later, control vs. survival, vs. humanity, ultimately made mostly moot by anarchic violence; Ex Machina,
I really enjoyed it. But I agree with Jeff in so much that Alex Garland abandons his grand intellect to get the narrative conclusion he wants.
Spoiler:
Is Scott home? thump thump thump Crash ......No.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
If you also believe the film can be trivialized as simply a film about homicidal robots, than I would just as strenuously disagree with you as I do Jeff.
If you're saying it has more than that, then you're not really agreeing with Jeff.
If you're saying it has more than that, then you're not really agreeing with Jeff.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Good job hurting your own stance by making a binary statement out of a thought out post.hepcat wrote:If you also believe the film can be trivialized as simply a film about homicidal robots, than I would just as strenuously disagree with you as I do Jeff.
If you're saying it has more than that, then you're not really agreeing with Jeff.
Is Scott home? thump thump thump Crash ......No.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
If you'd said you understood his point, that might have worked better for you.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
I don't think she intended Caleb to die. I think she had an Ivan Drago mentality about him. Her goal was to escape her prison and she would do whatever it took to make that happen. Would she kill 100 people who stood in her way? We don't know because that wasn't presented as an obstacle. I don't see her as a walking death machine out to kill. Give her the option of kill her captor or sit in a cage and she'll obviously kill her captor. Will she nuke a city to avoid being shut down? Maybe. That very well could be the point of the movie. We don't know what she is capable of doing because she will manipulate people to the best of her abilities.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
I agree. My question is what lengths would she go to do that? Maybe shed kill Caleb to just live in peace. Maybe she'd kill more. Many more, and not care about it because she doesn't have that morality yet.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Sorry, that was more directed at those who felt the film ultimately was about a killer robot.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
hepcat wrote:If you'd said you understood his point, that might have worked better for you.
One argument is semantic one was qualified. Agreement with elaboration was the appropriate word.
Spoiler:
Is Scott home? thump thump thump Crash ......No.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Spoiler:
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Since we're apparently done with spoiler tags...McNutt wrote:I don't think she intended Caleb to die. I think she had an Ivan Drago mentality about him. Her goal was to escape her prison and she would do whatever it took to make that happen.
Earlier in the film Ava's quite clearly (to me) querying Caleb to determine 1) how big a deal it would be to toss him aside to rot in the house after she left (asking about family, etc) and 2) whether he's a risk to let come out with her (are you a good person? Is Nathan your friend?). Further, he doesn't get fully 'locked in' until he tries to access the computer using his key card. Then the computer shuts down and everything goes red. He's then seen taking a metal stool and banging on the door.
It's not budging; he's a goner unless someone comes to rescue him.
That said, you can make the argument that she's sociopathic in that she's not particularly bothered by killing Nathan and leaving Caleb, but I don't count those as sociopathic--Nathan was quite literally torturing these bots (at least once they reached a sufficient intelligence level to be self-aware). She did what she had to do to escape and to ensure she had a chance to 'stay' escaped. Is it possible that she's going to go out and kill because YAY MURDER DEATH KILL!? I guess. Were we given any indication in the film that that's where we're headed? I don't think so, and I'd argue that we have evidence to the contrary via Ava's prior queries and actions.
I don't think you grokked its depth. That doesn't make it shallow. I do realize I could be giving it too much credit, however your other commentary on the film thus far lead me to believe you didn't fully absorb it.Jeff V wrote:It was a shallow
Derivative of which other films/works, specifically? I see some similarities to other AI films, and to some 'what is it to be alive?' tales, but wouldn't claim derivative here.derivative plot
I'm with you here.that was done in style.
On the contrary, Nathan wanted to be alone to do his work in peace. He knew his work was breaking the law ('turned on every cell camera...' 'the manufacturers knew I was doing it but couldn't say anything because they were doing the same thing', etc), and that he was on shaky moral ground. He wasn't hiding to save the planet from killer robots with limited charge and less-than-or-equal-to-petite-human-female strength.Jeff V wrote:OK, what then is your theory why the location was so isolated and not in a large tech facility with many scientists and other artisans working on them?
Jeff V wrote:Spoiler:
Nathan was killed by two robots he'd created, one of which he specifically created as a mute sex toy which happened to be self-aware, and the other figured out where she was headed once he decided to move on to the next iteration. Caleb's fate is more ambiguous, but I can see how Ava could have viewed him as a threat to her survival.
I recommend this and this as good viewing for those interested in more insight to Garland's thought process.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
I hate that we have to keep spoilering stuff -Combustible Lemur wrote:hepcat wrote:If you'd said you understood his point, that might have worked better for you.
One argument is semantic one was qualified. Agreement with elaboration was the appropriate word.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Me, too. And since I wasn't the first to stop, I stopped. We're on page 3 and the film's been out nearly a year. I figure we're safe. That said, I'll leave your spoiler spoilered in my quote since it's yours.stessier wrote:I hate that we have to keep spoilering stuff
I think this is a great set of takeaway questions.Spoiler:
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Those little problems of life: being kept against one's will in a remote compound, likely to be deadpooled in the near future in favor of a shinier model.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Sociopaths are normally considered human in real life. You know that, right?Jeff V wrote:stessier wrote:Spoiler:Spoiler:
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
I stopped the spoiler tags because the movie has been out for awhile and we've had a ton of posts that were nothing but spoiler tags, so anyone who is reading at this point is probably doing so to discuss the details of the movie. I don't want to ruin movies for people at all (big pet peeve of mine), but there comes a time when tags are just getting in the way and this thread had reached that point in my opinion. If most feel I'm wrong I'll go back to tags.
I don't think Ava wanted to kill Caleb. She simply didn't care if he died. She just wanted to get out. That's what I liked about this movie. It really makes you wonder what is going through her head. Dose she have a conscience? Is she bothered that she might have killed Caleb? We're not given enough information about Ava to know how she is going to handle the real world. She has used murder to get her out of what we would all consider to be a horrible situation. But what Ava considers horrible might not be the same as us. Who knows how she's going to react to the lady that takes her parking spot when Ava clearly had her blinker on.
I don't know that Jeff is right about Ava thinking killing is the right way to solve life's little problems because we never saw Ava attack little problems, only one life-threatening problem. I'm not going to say she's be above it though. We don't know.
I don't think Ava wanted to kill Caleb. She simply didn't care if he died. She just wanted to get out. That's what I liked about this movie. It really makes you wonder what is going through her head. Dose she have a conscience? Is she bothered that she might have killed Caleb? We're not given enough information about Ava to know how she is going to handle the real world. She has used murder to get her out of what we would all consider to be a horrible situation. But what Ava considers horrible might not be the same as us. Who knows how she's going to react to the lady that takes her parking spot when Ava clearly had her blinker on.
I don't know that Jeff is right about Ava thinking killing is the right way to solve life's little problems because we never saw Ava attack little problems, only one life-threatening problem. I'm not going to say she's be above it though. We don't know.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Yeah, Jeff's just messing with you now.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
If she made an attempt to resolve her problem through reason or other non-violent means, I must have missed it. I would like to think that if we are evaluating a robot for sentience, psychopathic behavior would be a reason to pull the plug and declare the effort a failure. When actual people exhibit this behavior, we incarcerate or execute them because they don't conform to the acceptable behavior of most humans.McNutt wrote: I don't know that Jeff is right about Ava thinking killing is the right way to solve life's little problems because we never saw Ava attack little problems, only one life-threatening problem. I'm not going to say she's be above it though. We don't know.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Interesting. Please point me to the case of a woman held hostage who was raped and subsequently escaped her captor by killing him being convicted of anything.Jeff V wrote:If she made an attempt to resolve her problem through reason or other non-violent means, I must have missed it. I would like to think that if we are evaluating a robot for sentience, psychopathic behavior would be a reason to pull the plug and declare the effort a failure. When actual people exhibit this behavior, we incarcerate or execute them because they don't conform to the acceptable behavior of most humans.McNutt wrote: I don't know that Jeff is right about Ava thinking killing is the right way to solve life's little problems because we never saw Ava attack little problems, only one life-threatening problem. I'm not going to say she's be above it though. We don't know.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
She only killed her creator after discovering evidence of his torture of another of her kind (a level of empathy that should prove she isn't truly a sociopath), and after he tried to stop her from leaving.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Caleb wasn't holding her hostage, and she was not yet certified to be a woman and not just a machine.stessier wrote:Interesting. Please point me to the case of a woman held hostage who was raped and subsequently escaped her captor by killing him being convicted of anything.Jeff V wrote:If she made an attempt to resolve her problem through reason or other non-violent means, I must have missed it. I would like to think that if we are evaluating a robot for sentience, psychopathic behavior would be a reason to pull the plug and declare the effort a failure. When actual people exhibit this behavior, we incarcerate or execute them because they don't conform to the acceptable behavior of most humans.McNutt wrote: I don't know that Jeff is right about Ava thinking killing is the right way to solve life's little problems because we never saw Ava attack little problems, only one life-threatening problem. I'm not going to say she's be above it though. We don't know.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Whaaaaaa....Jeff V wrote: and she was not yet certified to be a woman and not just a machine.
She was exhibiting guile and cunning on a human level far before the ending of the film.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
And she left to die the only person who might attest to her humanity. So....homicidal toaster.hepcat wrote:Whaaaaaa....Jeff V wrote: and she was not yet certified to be a woman and not just a machine.
She was exhibiting guile and cunning on a human level far before the ending of the film.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
And I'm out.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Why does she need someone to attest to her humanity? Someone who might very well end up hurting her, as the only other example of humanity she's encountered had with others of her kind?
At this point I'm not sure if I'm Ava talking to Caleb, Caleb talking to Ava, or a random homeless guy talking to a trash can lid in this discussion. I'm fascinated to find out how far he'll take this though.Zaxxon wrote:And I'm out.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
It's all a matter of perspective. If the movie had taken Ava's perspective the audience would have cheered when she murdered the bum.
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Re: [movie] Ex Machina
Caleb isn't the "good guy" in this movie; I admit I kinda fell into that trap at first too.