Happy Remuscide, then.Unagi wrote:Remus is more than an Aquaman - he's a trusted player. Um. ? Just another body buttressing our numbers? Bullshit.
Indeed.Remus has gone from 'unknown' to 'trusted'. That's the whole heart of the game.
Moderator: Zaxxon
Happy Remuscide, then.Unagi wrote:Remus is more than an Aquaman - he's a trusted player. Um. ? Just another body buttressing our numbers? Bullshit.
Indeed.Remus has gone from 'unknown' to 'trusted'. That's the whole heart of the game.
Why? Do I look nervous?Grundbegriff wrote:Are you evil, Unagi? You've been so uninvolved; however, now that you can smell blood, you're steppin' right up to try to push me over the brink.
Because you are not cover for our specials anymore. Get it?? Why on earth don't you grasp that?Grundbegriff wrote:And their hesitating to nightkill me is bad... why?Unagi wrote:who is now a useless cover for Night Kills (if he's not evil, they won't be killing him at night until he's "proven").
Unless of course you are simply lying. But - no, that would be unthinkable.Grundbegriff wrote:Meanwhile, doing (1) is definitely throwing the vote away on a non-Doomster.
Here it is again with the Aquaman = Superman. Functionally, yeah - sure - neither of them has any function we can make use of - but you are clouding the issue. We are talking about a 'trusted player' (Superman, uncontested) vs. a self-claimed, untrusted, guilty-as-hell-looking Aquaman.Grundbegriff wrote:Since Aquaman and Superman are functionally equivalent except for Superman's non-death, how is chipping away at our numbers safer than not doing so?
Are you listening to yourself? Stessier, please answer Grund's question for me. I'd love to hear what you have to say on this point. K? thanks.Grundbegriff wrote:But seriously-- why do you regard (3) as a joke, when killing me is similar to a bad outcome of an attempt at (3)? Wouldn't that logically imply that killing me is a shortcut to the same joke?
Sort of.Unagi wrote:Why? Do I look nervous?Grundbegriff wrote:Are you evil, Unagi? You've been so uninvolved; however, now that you can smell blood, you're steppin' right up to try to push me over the brink.
Assuming they read my comments about Aquamen, my comments about Wonder Woman's options, and my other tactical advice, and assuming they then take my profession of Aquamanliness at face value... yes. I'd be out in such a way that I no longer provide cover for Specials.Because you are not cover for our specials anymore. Get it?? Why on earth don't you grasp that?Grundbegriff wrote:And their hesitating to nightkill me is bad... why?Unagi wrote:who is now a useless cover for Night Kills (if he's not evil, they won't be killing him at night until he's "proven").
No, it's quite thinkable. That's the beauty, from the standpoint of gamesmanship.Unless of course you are simply lying. But - no, that would be unthinkable.Grundbegriff wrote:Meanwhile, doing (1) is definitely throwing the vote away on a non-Doomster.
You go and trust Remuscide, Johnny. I'm sure no harm will come.We are talking about a 'trusted player' (Superman, uncontested) vs. a self-claimed, untrusted, guilty-as-hell-looking Aquaman.
Crap.Grundbegriff wrote:Sort of.Unagi wrote:Why? Do I look nervous?Grundbegriff wrote:Are you evil, Unagi? You've been so uninvolved; however, now that you can smell blood, you're steppin' right up to try to push me over the brink.
OK, so as an Aquaman that is no longer providing cover for our Specials, aside from you charming narcissism, why are you worth keeping around?Grundbegriff wrote:Assuming they read my comments about Aquamen, my comments about Wonder Woman's options, and my other tactical advice, and assuming they then take my profession of Aquamanliness at face value... yes. I'd be out in such a way that I no longer provide cover for Specials.Unagi wrote:Because you are not cover for our specials anymore. Get it?? Why on earth don't you grasp that?Grundbegriff wrote:And their hesitating to nightkill me is bad... why?
Yet, your argument for moving on and just finding another person to lynch hinges on our trust of you, and frankly - if any of us trusted you (aside from Stessier), would we have taken you all the way to (N-1)?Grundbegriff wrote:No, it's quite thinkable. That's the beauty, from the standpoint of gamesmanship.Unag wrote:Unless of course you are simply lying. But - no, that would be unthinkable.
Yeah, you do love to toss out that Remuscide fear don't cha?. In any case, Remus is 'trusted', you are not. There is a mountain of difference - and you keep trying to minimalize it.Grundbegriff wrote:You go and trust Remuscide, Johnny. I'm sure no harm will come.Unagi wrote:We are talking about a 'trusted player' (Superman, uncontested) vs. a self-claimed, untrusted, guilty-as-hell-looking Aquaman.
Each of us has his strengths at Werewolf. Mine is the blend of being strongly analytical, difficult to read, and plan-thwartingly obstreperous.Unagi wrote:OK, so as an Aquaman that is no longer providing cover for our Specials, aside from you charming narcissism, why are you worth keeping around?
Nobody who plays werewolf with me should trust me in the game until I'm proven, as I've often said. That doesn't mean I'm untrustworthy; it merely means that you're not necessarily in a position to know whether I'm trustworthy, and should proceed with caution.Yet, your argument for moving on and just finding another person to lynch hinges on our trust of you, and frankly - if any of us trusted you (aside from Stessier), would we have taken you all the way to (N-1)?
Only when it's applicable. Right now, three of the four "trusteds" can't see their hands before their noses.Yeah, you do love to toss out that Remuscide fear don't cha?.
It's super-easy to change that setting in the ACP, too, if they'll just take 10 seconds to do it.Unagi wrote:((Who can we talk to about getting this Max: 3 Embedded Quotes rule changed. It's quite annoying.))
And your questions will have to wait a bit. Im bbq'ing right now and I thought I would have a few moments, but alas the Carne is waiting for me. Sorry for delay since I said I would post last night. Rest assured I have not disappeared just a bit preoccupied right now.Semaj wrote:
Right now my big questionsmarks are:
Mr bubbles
Austin
Rev
Someday I'ma have to look at everyone and make a cool hip and trendy suspicion Matrix.
To lynch members of the Legion of Doom, it's necessary either to discern them or to fall upon one by chance.Remus West wrote:Grund,
question: How do we (the JLA) win the game?
answer: By lynching the members of the Legion of Doom.
So why is it that the plan you keep trying to sell amounts to "do not try and win for the JLA"?
How can you not see this?
You're mistaken, but frankly, I'm bored with discussions of you and the Superman issue. We'll see no action there anyhow. You know better than to think I operate by suspecting people for suspecting me. My criteria seldom have anything to do with that.Grund,
question: When did I start "acting evil" in your eyes?
answer: When I posted that I had some doubts about you
It's still fully operative.What happened to your disdain for the triggercut principle?
I did not even mention the Superman issue. You were calling me evil from the moment I said I did not trust you. Deny it, go ahead. You are not the only one who can post time stamps. You had no information regarding me being Superman or not at the time.Grundbegriff wrote:Remus West wrote:You're mistaken, but frankly, I'm bored with discussions of you and the Superman issue. We'll see no action there anyhow. You know better than to think I operate by suspecting people for suspecting me. My criteria seldom have anything to do with that.Grund,
question: When did I start "acting evil" in your eyes?
answer: When I posted that I had some doubts about you
July 3, 1:09AMRemus West wrote:Honestly I think everyone needs to go back and look at what Grundbegriff said again. He has jumped very very high up my suspicion matrix. Very high up. I'll post the details in the morning (my morning, remeber it is summer and I am a high school teacher...) when you folks have had time to read. Do not bother posting your thoughts yet though so you can know I am not mimicing yours. He has mistakes/omissions in his analysis that interest me.
Wasted no time moving me from a position where you trusted me to where you thought I was evil. Since I did not post anything else between my stating doubts about you and your post suggesting I was evil what would you call that other than triggercutian? I had not even posted my thoughts regarding Superman at that point. Good effort.Grundbegriff wrote:Once upon a time, when you were evil, you tried very hard indeed to discredit me even though my words and actions were conspicuously beneficial to my (Good) team.Remus West wrote:Honestly I think everyone needs to go back and look at what Grundbegriff said again. He has jumped very very high up my suspicion matrix. Very high up. I'll post the details in the morning
You wouldn't be doing that again, would you, Remus?
What? No-- you don't seem to understand. I'm announcing general boredom with the discussion of you in all pertinent dimensions. I'm not alleging any connections to whatever you're obsessing over.Remus West wrote:I did not even mention the Superman issue. You were calling me evil from the moment I said I did not trust you. Deny it, go ahead. You are not the only one who can post time stamps. You had no information regarding me being Superman or not at the time.Grundbegriff wrote:You're mistaken, but frankly, I'm bored with discussions of you and the Superman issue. We'll see no action there anyhow. You know better than to think I operate by suspecting people for suspecting me. My criteria seldom have anything to do with that.Remus West wrote:Grund,
question: When did I start "acting evil" in your eyes?
answer: When I posted that I had some doubts about you
I reconsidered your posting from the start of the game up to that point, and responded to the whole irrespective of what you thought about me.Wasted no time moving me from a position where you trusted me to where you thought I was evil. Since I did not post anything else between my stating doubts about you and your post suggesting I was evil what would you call that other than triggercutian? I had not even posted my thoughts regarding Superman at that point. Good effort.
Yeah, better go consult with Grund on the Villain forums and see how you should proceed.Mr Bubbles wrote:And your questions will have to wait a bit. Im bbq'ing right now and I thought I would have a few moments, but alas the Carne is waiting for me. Sorry for delay since I said I would post last night. Rest assured I have not disappeared just a bit preoccupied right now.Semaj wrote:
Right now my big questionsmarks are:
Mr bubbles
Austin
Rev
Someday I'ma have to look at everyone and make a cool hip and trendy suspicion Matrix.
So it took you four hours to read before your first substantial post but only 14 minutes after I suggested I did not trust you to reconsider everything I had posted from the beginning of the game.Grundbegriff wrote:I reconsidered your posting from the start of the game up to that point, and responded to the whole irrespective of what you thought about me.
Yes. I took a three hour nap in between.Remus West wrote:So it took you four hours to read before your first substantial postGrundbegriff wrote:I reconsidered your posting from the start of the game up to that point, and responded to the whole irrespective of what you thought about me.
No comment of yours prompted me to reconsider you. I barely registered what you were writing. I was already reconsidering you because I was revisiting my earlier explanation to stessier of your tells. And why was I doing that? Because of something Scoop said.but only 14 minutes after I suggested I did not trust you to reconsider everything I had posted from the beginning of the game.
No point; the use of a threat matrix requires reasoning and insight.Any final suspect matrix in case we are wrong bout you?
Just so you know, I am not entirely unteachable. Should you prove innocent I will not over-look this list.Grundbegriff wrote:Lassr, Scoop, Austin
Agreed.Remus West wrote:Just so you know, I am not entirely unteachable. Should you prove innocent I will not over-look this list.Grundbegriff wrote:Lassr, Scoop, Austin
Is this list about people he thinks are evil? (Or you Grund if you show up before Chaos does)Remus West wrote:Just so you know, I am not entirely unteachable. Should you prove innocent I will not over-look this list.Grundbegriff wrote:Lassr, Scoop, Austin
I wouldn't say always. It's fairly situational. If we were in a position to make the bad guys miss and they didn't have a seer, I could certainly see where taking the miss and getting our seer an extra scan would be better than forcing out a good special or killing a good guy.Unagi wrote:Agreed.Remus West wrote:Just so you know, I am not entirely unteachable. Should you prove innocent I will not over-look this list.Grundbegriff wrote:Lassr, Scoop, Austin
But even if you prove innocent, I still think the 'lets just not lynch anyone today' is and always was the wrong way to play with the Superman role.
Dude-- that list is only meaningful in relation to the three matrices. Sometimes, the long view is important.Remus West wrote:Just so you know, I am not entirely unteachable. Should you prove innocent I will not over-look this list.Grundbegriff wrote:Lassr, Scoop, Austin
Dude, we have a Special who, when run up a flagpole, doesn't even die. Did you know that 0 is greater than negative 1?Austin wrote:I guess if Grund is actually Aqauman then it's still better than running another special up the flagpole.
What's the right way, and how does it differ mathematically, logically, or tactically from his just taking a bullet and living?Unagi wrote:But even if you prove innocent, I still think the 'lets just not lynch anyone today' is and always was the wrong way to play with the Superman role.
That and/or we also can look at it like: Would Remus really feel like it would be safe to 'Fake Claim Superman' when he was contacted by MM.Austin wrote:The only confirmation we have on Remus right now is the lack of a counter-claim correct? <Not to diminish the weight that lends but I'm trying to get thoughts caught up from a lot of pages>
You keep asking me this.Grundbegriff wrote:What's the right way, and how does it differ mathematically, logically, or tactically from his just taking a bullet and living?Unagi wrote:But even if you prove innocent, I still think the 'lets just not lynch anyone today' is and always was the wrong way to play with the Superman role.
Yes. The only other way to test me is to lynch me. As I said before though, that is a bad move. It wastes one of our attempts at finding the Bad Guys.Austin wrote:The only confirmation we have on Remus right now is the lack of a counter-claim correct? <Not to diminish the weight that lends but I'm trying to get thoughts caught up from a lot of pages>
And exactly how would the effect of that on the numbers be different from, say, using Superman deliberately?Unagi wrote:You keep asking me this.Grundbegriff wrote:What's the right way, and how does it differ mathematically, logically, or tactically from his just taking a bullet and living?
Like I said - I think the best thing would be for Superman to be stumbled on.
Period.
OK?
Sort of like killing me....Remus West wrote:As I said before though, that is a bad move. It wastes one of our attempts at finding the Bad Guys.
Lynching you is a deliberate attempt at finding a bad guy. It may or may not prove to be a futile attempt but it is an attempt taken. Purposely lynching Superman is an attempt thrown in the garbage.Grundbegriff wrote:Sort of like killing me....Remus West wrote:As I said before though, that is a bad move. It wastes one of our attempts at finding the Bad Guys.
Wanye Gretzky wrote:You miss 100% of the shots you do not take
Skipping a chance to kill a Bad Guy doesn't win the game either.Grundbegriff wrote:And exactly how would the effect of that on the numbers be different from, say, using Superman deliberately?Unagi wrote:You keep asking me this.Grundbegriff wrote:What's the right way, and how does it differ mathematically, logically, or tactically from his just taking a bullet and living?
Like I said - I think the best thing would be for Superman to be stumbled on.
Period.
OK?
The difference you name is entirely aesthetic. Style points don't win the game.
This is why you were voted to be lynched. The illogic of that statement is patently obvious, yet you continue to float such statements as being a good play for the League.Grundbegriff wrote:Sort of like killing me....Remus West wrote:As I said before though, that is a bad move. It wastes one of our attempts at finding the Bad Guys.
You're no Wayne Gretzky.Remus West wrote:Wanye Gretzky wrote:You miss 100% of the shots you do not take