Octopus Overlords

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:57 pm It is impossible but if no one is pushing for it, it'll never be possible.

Who cares? Mars is a total shithole.

Earth is on the way to becoming shittier, but life on Earth is still 100,000 times better and easier than life would be on Mars. Any resource allocated to Mars habitation that could otherwise be allocated to solving Earth's habitability crisis is a waste.

Musk has all but said that we need Mars because Earth is failing. Aside from the ridiculous comparison, think of the ethical calculus involved there. Does he think we'll move 8 billion humans to Mars? If not, who is his Mars for?

I have my suspicions about who Musk thinks is worthy of survival, unless he's not thinking past the shallow narcissism of being applauded as as hero. Either way, I don't think he should be trusted.

I mean, you're 100% correct. If we can't stop Earth from killing us, we sure as hell aren't going to be able to stop mars from doing so.

It's fine to strive for it when it's out of our reach. That's where inspiration and innovation come from. How many advances came out of the race to the moon, despite actually going there being of minimal value beyond the symbolic? Hell, figuring out how to overcome some of the challenges of Mars could lead to ways of addressing issues here on Earth.

But, as stated, that striving needs to happen alongside actually addressing real-world problems. We have the time, people, and resources to do both - we just prioritize profit and power instead.

I know it is trendy to hate Musk but isn't it unfair to accuse him of not doing anything to stop Earth from killing us?

SpaceX -> Goal of colonize Mars in future maybe very far future.
Tesla -> Promote electric cars to help reduce the damage to Earth.

Now I know he is just a businessman and doesn't seem to support public transportation over electric cars but at least he is or was doing something.

He used to be a favorite for the left before we found out he is a scumbag.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 9:32 pm SpaceX -> Goal of colonize Mars in future maybe very far future.
Tesla -> Promote electric cars to help reduce the damage to Earth.

Twitter -> Support a massive increase in climate misinformation and denial, along with actively supporting policymakers who want to limit our response.

It may not be fair to put the world's lack of action on climate on his shoulders, but at the same time, he's lost the benefit of the doubt.

I recently learned that Musk founded OpenAI to develop AI responsibly, with open-source code. That's why it was called OpenAI. Its new owners turned it into the opposite of that and now Musk is one of the loudest AI doomsayers.

The motivation to colonize the solar system, starting with Mars, is insurance against a planetary disaster that could wipe out humanity, such as an asteroid strike or a supervolcanic eruption. It's not to replace the Earth, but to have some offsite backups. I think we'll get there in another generation or two. Musk might eventually develop the ability to transport large amounts of people and cargo to other worlds, which is his stated goal. Keeping those people alive on the journey and after arrival, and making colonies self-sustaining, are different and bigger challenges for someone else to figure out. SpaceX is just trying to build the bus.

A recent NASA analysis says that it will take up to 20 Starship launches to lift enough fuel for Moonship to reach lunar orbit, land, and take off again. It's hard to imagine the same/similar vehicle going to Mars, it being so much further away and having a deeper gravity well. The return trip will require making and loading fuel on Mars, with all the infrastructure that implies. But these are all engineering challenges, and people are very good at solving those. It's all doable if we can reliably send large payloads at manageable costs to preposition supplies and equipment. The harder challenge is figuring out how interested parties are going to pay for it.

About open source AI. If you're really an AI doomsayer and think AI can be dangerous and need to be heavily regulated, you probably don't want open source AI since that'll mean you give AI to everyone including people that are not going to put guardrails and restrictions in their AI development.

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:48 pm The motivation to colonize the solar system, starting with Mars, is insurance against a planetary disaster that could wipe out humanity, such as an asteroid strike or a supervolcanic eruption. It's not to replace the Earth, but to have some offsite backups. I think we'll get there in another generation or two. Musk might eventually develop the ability to transport large amounts of people and cargo to other worlds, which is his stated goal. Keeping those people alive on the journey and after arrival, and making colonies self-sustaining, are different and bigger challenges for someone else to figure out. SpaceX is just trying to build the bus.

A Mars/Lunar/etc colony will be entirely dependent on Earth for at least 500 years. Even if interplanetary civilization is your goal, preserving and protecting Earth is an absolute technological necessity. It's an ethical necessity even moreso.

Musk is trying to do a speed-run to a Science victory in Civilization when no such thing exists.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 9:32 pm I know it is trendy to hate Musk but isn't it unfair to accuse him of not doing anything to stop Earth from killing us?

SpaceX -> Goal of colonize Mars in future maybe very far future.
Tesla -> Promote electric cars to help reduce the damage to Earth.

Now I know he is just a businessman and doesn't seem to support public transportation over electric cars but at least he is or was doing something.

He used to be a favorite for the left before we found out he is a scumbag.

Electric cars are still just more cars. His opposition (sabotage) to public transportation shows that he's about his own profits, not the fate of the Earth.

Colonizing Mars is something we've already discussed.

It was also trendy to argue against enablers of Nazis in the 1940s. I consider myself retro that way.

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:20 pm Electric cars are still just more cars. His opposition (sabotage) to public transportation shows that he's about his own profits, not the fate of the Earth.

He supports public transportation. He wants his boring company to be subsidized so he build public transportation infrastructure. It's part of his libertarian absolutism. Make money off public funding. That's one of the basics of libertarianism, isn't it?

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:01 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:48 pm The motivation to colonize the solar system, starting with Mars, is insurance against a planetary disaster that could wipe out humanity, such as an asteroid strike or a supervolcanic eruption. It's not to replace the Earth, but to have some offsite backups. I think we'll get there in another generation or two. Musk might eventually develop the ability to transport large amounts of people and cargo to other worlds, which is his stated goal. Keeping those people alive on the journey and after arrival, and making colonies self-sustaining, are different and bigger challenges for someone else to figure out. SpaceX is just trying to build the bus.

A Mars/Lunar/etc colony will be entirely dependent on Earth for at least 500 years. Even if interplanetary civilization is your goal, preserving and protecting Earth is an absolute technological necessity. It's an ethical necessity even moreso.

Musk is trying to do a speed-run to a Science victory in Civilization when no such thing exists.

I believe Martian colonists could eke out a bare-bones independent existence sooner than that, if they had to. But this is all hypothetical within our dwindling lifetimes. I'll count myself lucky if I live to see Artemis III land on the moon.

Of course Earth is the only place humans will ever thrive in great numbers. I think our intermediate future (by the end of this century) will look more like The Expanse than Star Trek. But preserving Earth and colonizing space aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, they're complementary.

I think it will look more like A Boy and his Dog than either Star Trek or The Expanse.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:52 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:20 pm Electric cars are still just more cars. His opposition (sabotage) to public transportation shows that he's about his own profits, not the fate of the Earth.

He supports public transportation. He wants his boring company to be subsidized so he build public transportation infrastructure. It's part of his libertarian absolutism. Make money off public funding. That's one of the basics of libertarianism, isn't it?

The boring company model is literally just an underground tunnel for car-sized vehicles to be exclusively supplied by Tesla.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:52 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:20 pm Electric cars are still just more cars. His opposition (sabotage) to public transportation shows that he's about his own profits, not the fate of the Earth.

He supports public transportation. He wants his boring company to be subsidized so he build public transportation infrastructure. It's part of his libertarian absolutism. Make money off public funding. That's one of the basics of libertarianism, isn't it?

Yes, give me money, control of key public assets and most importantly a constant ego boost and I’ll give you some libertarian love. And if you’re on the Supreme Court we can be “friends”. (Not friends mind, “friends”.)

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:17 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:52 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:20 pm Electric cars are still just more cars. His opposition (sabotage) to public transportation shows that he's about his own profits, not the fate of the Earth.

He supports public transportation. He wants his boring company to be subsidized so he build public transportation infrastructure. It's part of his libertarian absolutism. Make money off public funding. That's one of the basics of libertarianism, isn't it?

The boring company model is literally just an underground tunnel for car-sized vehicles to be exclusively supplied by Tesla.

It's a total yawner.

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:17 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:52 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:20 pm Electric cars are still just more cars. His opposition (sabotage) to public transportation shows that he's about his own profits, not the fate of the Earth.

He supports public transportation. He wants his boring company to be subsidized so he build public transportation infrastructure. It's part of his libertarian absolutism. Make money off public funding. That's one of the basics of libertarianism, isn't it?

The boring company model is literally just an underground tunnel for car-sized vehicles to be exclusively supplied by Tesla.

And a feint to stop high speed rail.

Hope Bibi asked some hard questions-

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/27/tech/elo ... index.html

Musk was taken to Kfar Azza — one of the kibbutzim attacked on October 7 — by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The kibbutz was the home of Abigail Edan, a four-year-old American dual citizen abducted by the militant group that day and released Sunday.

He was there because he needs Israel's blessing to put Starlink in Gaza. And he's trying to do some damage control on his xtwitter nazism.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:10 pm And he's trying to do some damage control on his xtwitter nazism.

That's my first thunk. Did he go to Ukraine? I know Zelensky invited him. What is he actually doing there? The guy who says "his" tech isn't for war.

Oh wait

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 023-11-27/

But in a new tack on Monday, Karhi said Israel and Musk had reached an agreement in principle whereby Starlink satellite units could only be operated in Israel and Gaza with the approval of his ministry.

I guess it's just not for wars against Putin's aggression.

Musk has melt down at Dealbook session. It is pretty amazing how him shooting his stupid mouth off last year and beginning this dumb Twitter adventure path has led to a spiral of Xitter related shenanigans.

Elon Musk says that advertisers fleeing X after his endorsement of an antisemitic post could “kill” the platform formerly known as Twitter. And he has a simple message for those companies, which include Disney, Apple, and IBM: “Go fuck yourself”

Musk, speaking Wednesday night at the New York Times’ DealBook Summit, said that advertisers with concerns about his conduct should stop spending on the platform, which has historically been dependent on ad revenue. “Don’t advertise,” Musk said in response to a question about X’s recent problems. “If someone is going to try and blackmail me with advertising? Blackmail me with money? Go fuck yourself. Go fuck yourself. Is that clear? Hey Bob, if you’re in the audience. That’s how I feel, don’t advertise.”

He's said far worse and it's been shrugged off. This won't matter.

Even if every advertiser left he could subsidize xtwitter cash burn with TSLA. And TSLA shareholders would let him because they let him do it before.

Having a go at Bob Iger is the cherry on top of this shit sundae.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:03 am Even if every advertiser left he could subsidize xtwitter cash burn with TSLA. And TSLA shareholders would let him because they let him do it before.

Having a go at Bob Iger is the cherry on top of this shit sundae.

Good. edit: Because I want him to burn as much cash as possible.

I'm putting this over here because it's inherently political:

Elon Musk announced early Sunday he is reinstating far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones' account on X, formerly known as Twitter.

Why it matters: Jones, most famous for promoting the conspiracy that the 2012 Sandy Hook school shooting was a hoax, was permanently banned from the platform in 2018.

Jones' show, Infowars, was also permanently banned from Twitter in 2018.
By reinstating Jones, Musk backtracked on his promise last year that he would not allow Jones back on the platform.

He only has ~11 months left to fully influence the 2024 election. Seems like a solid plan then to allow Jones back on social media to spew his nonsense.

That should give advertisers a good idea of what Twitter users are like.

Last week or so, Tucker Carlson interviewed Alex Jones in a high-profile way that invited right-wingers to take him seriously again.

This is probably not a coincidence.

The only podcasts in hell.

I'm gonna presume he didn't literally pee on the mic.

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 12:17 am I'm gonna presume he didn't literally pee on the mic.

You should hear it sizzle.

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 12:17 am I'm gonna presume he didn't literally pee on the mic.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... alex-jones

Last Week Tonight on Elon Musk:

Elon demands to be compensated on a path that almost doubles his ownership (from about ~13% to 25%). Keeping in mind he blew through ~5% on his adventure through Xitter-churia.

I'd be overjoyed if the board took him up on his offer to work on projects outside Tesla full-time. He's clearly lost whatever edge he had and Tesla hasn't produced a decent new product in quite some time now. Perhaps new blood would re-energize and focus them.

So... he's threatening his own company? Did I read that right? Like, if they don't give him the shares, he won't work on the AI for the cars? Wouldn't that likely just mean that the company doesn't do as well? WTH...

Please let him work on other projects... and while you are at it, replace him with someone... useful. Worst thing about moving from a 2018 to 2023 was losing the ultrasonic sensors and basic summon with them. Park assist may be degraded... yeah. I would happily pay the price difference to have those sensors back, but yeah, Elon, cameras are all we need.

I’m not even sure I follow the threat.
If he doesn’t get money, what is it that Tesla can and cannot do with AI.

Is it because he's a megalomaniac and sincerely thinks that Tesla cannot develop AI without his personal expertise and guidance?

Yeah, that's what I'm reading too...
It's as if he, himself, is the genius AI developer getting things done.

I mean, he is always free to start a new company with his and other people's money - would Tesla assume that if they fork over the shares, he will super duper promise to never do something like this again?

He's a petulant man child. His greatest value to Tesla is his personality cult and ability to bullshit fraudulently, seemingly without consequences. I'm sure the board would be overjoyed with him keeping himself occupied outside of Tesla. Is he getting bored with Twitter or something?

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:22 pm He's a petulant man child. His greatest value to Tesla is his personality cult and ability to bullshit fraudulently, seemingly without consequences. I'm sure the board would be overjoyed with him keeping himself occupied outside of Tesla. Is he getting bored with Twitter or something?

I think his invasion of social media has stressed his finances. Mostly in the sense that he can't do whatever he wants without limit at least. Increasing his stock in something actually valuable would offset some the of cash and net worth burn caused by owning the libs.