Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 2:12 pm**

I may have missed it due to mostly doing drive by lurking these days but has anything been discussed regarding the town hall CNN is hosting for Trump? Moderated by a former Daily Caller "journalist"? Did they really make enough money off his scandals that they feel another Trump "presidency" is a good idea that they'd promote him? The people attending will be invite only voters likely to vote in the Republican primary. WTF?

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 2:25 pm**

Starts here

viewtopic.php?p=2968973#p2968973

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 2:28 pm**

I read an article on this recently. Kaitlan Collins, the moderator, has a reputation of asking tough questions of everyone, so the perception I'm hearing is that she's fairly impartial. She was barred from a Rose Garden event at the White House in 2018 for daring to ask Trump some uncomfortable questions.

This event isn't going to move the needle on the nutjobs who believe he's the second coming of an (orange) Jesus, but my hope is that Trump does what Trump usually does and makes enough sexist, racist and idiotic statements that anyone who isn't in danger of causing a return to neanderthal life by having children will realize just how dangerous (and by dangerous, I mean so stupid he'd push the nuclear button because he thought he was ordering a diet coke) this moron is.

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2023 7:37 pm**

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:00 pm**

Just seeing some random observations online and apparently he's steamrolling over Kaitlan Collins and saying all kinds of insane shit and she's letting it go by unchallenged.

So yeah, good to see the media never learns. Hope the ratings were worth it.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:13 pm**

So surprising.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:17 pm**

As the interview ends, Jake Tapper, as ever, is eloquently summarizing how dishonest and racist and crass Trump was and how the audience laughed along.

The question then is: why did CNN give him a platform to do all that?

Not only did they continue with the Town Hall, but apparently filled the audience with MAGAts. We really are living in a simulation.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:29 pm**

I watched a bit and I wouldn't exactly say she was letting things go unchallenged. She challenged nearly every single thing that came out of his mouth. The problem is in true Trumpian style, he just ignored her, deflected, talked over her, or insulted her instead of giving a straight answer.

That said, the crowd was VERY Trump-friendly, applauding and grinning like idiots at every shit-stained piece of drivel that he uttered. I couldn't watch more than a few minutes though, as I can't stomach to look at the fat fuck.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:30 pm**

Even less of a surprise all the people who said Collins would keep him in line are now pivoting to how important it is to see him be unhinged. And paper over the thing they 1) said absolutely wouldn't happen and 2) move the goal posts as they again get it wrong with Trump. But let's roll the dice against dictatorship.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:32 pm**

Haven't watched it, but he's a major candidate for president (I'd say he's almost certainly one of the top 5 people most likely to be president in 2025?), so he deserves a platform. But that platform should have included having his "insane shit" challenged.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:37 pm**

Defiant wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:32 pm Haven't watched it, but he's a major candidate for president (I'd say he's almost certainly one of the top 5 people most likely to be president in 2025?), so he deserves a platform.

People keep saying this and I ask again...why? Why does he deserve a platform? What rule says this? He attempted a coup. He is a criminal. He was already President. He is well known. He doesn't deserve a free platform. He can reach into his pocket and pay for it. I'm sort of bemused by all these frankly insane rationalizations that pretend he is a legitimate candidate.

But that platform should have included having his "insane shit" challenged.

It can't be done. People have to stop living in a fantasy. He is as dangerous as any person in our history. All efforts to challenge him have failed. We need to take his oxygen away instead of supplying it.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:49 pm**

To top itself, CNN then had Byron on the air. He unleashed a fusillade of election denying bullshit and reinforced Trump's most brazen lies. The 4th estate has begun its final surrender in the name of "balance" with authoritarians who hate democracy.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:50 pm**

It's hard not to follow this thread and not conclude that America is over.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:56 pm**

He should have never been platformed. Collins honestly tried to fact check Trump but it is impossible. He ignores any correction, is not ashamed in being caught in a lie, and just continues to lie. Fact checking doesn’t matter to him. Nor does it really matter to the crowd. It’s useless.

He was impeached twice, tried subvert an election, and sexually assaulted a woman. He is not a normal candidate and should not be treated as one. The press is failing to learn.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 9:57 pm**

I just watched Byron complaining about Collins fact checking being biased ON CNN and the CNN panel just ... let it go. We're fucked.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 10:53 pm**

Defiant wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:32 pm But that platform should have included having his "insane shit" challenged.

Curious how you propose that be done.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 10:58 pm**

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 11:07 pm**

Alefroth wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:53 pm
Defiant wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:32 pm But that platform should have included having his "insane shit" challenged.
Curious how you propose that be done.

Like I said, I haven't seen it, but having the moderator prepared to fact check the most common lies he's spouted in the past. Chryons that also point it out. Turn off his mic when she's pointing out his lies or whenever he's misbehaving. Follow up questions. Call him out when he doesn't answer a question and don't move on to the next topic until he does. Fact check after the event.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 11:26 pm**

The fact that CNN invited Trump to do a nationally televised town hall at this point is just batshit crazy.

Trump is a wannabe dictator who tried to overthrow our democracy and will, beyond a shadow of a doubt, make another attempt. This is not a point that's up for debate. It's a fact.

He's an enemy of the state, and, as others have said, he is absolutely NOT a normal candidate. It's insane that we are treating him as such. Insane.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 11:28 pm**

Defiant wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:07 pm
Alefroth wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:53 pm
Defiant wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:32 pm But that platform should have included having his "insane shit" challenged.
Curious how you propose that be done.
Like I said, I haven't seen it, but having the moderator prepared to fact check the most common lies he's spouted in the past. Chryons that also point it out. Turn off his mic when she's pointing out his lies or whenever he's misbehaving. Follow up questions. Call him out when he doesn't answer a question and don't move on to the next topic until he does. Fact check after the event.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2023 11:37 pm**

YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:29 pm That said, the crowd was VERY Trump-friendly, applauding and grinning like idiots at every shit-stained piece of drivel that he uttered. I couldn't watch more than a few minutes though, as I can't stomach to look at the fat fuck.

CNN picked a crowd entirely composed of GOP and "Republican-leaning" voters for the crowd. Watching them laughing and jeering as Trump made jokes about his sexual assault and went after Carroll yet again was vile, but let's face it...that's who they are. That's the MAGA base. The absurd image of the "alpha male" who can bluster over, insult, lie with impunity about literally everything, and is the biggest asshole in literally every conceivable room is exactly what they want.

This was less of a town hall and more of a prime-time televised MAGA rally. But hey, CNN got a bunch of eyeballs so...WINNING!

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 1:19 am**

Defiant wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:07 pm
Alefroth wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:53 pm
Defiant wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:32 pm But that platform should have included having his "insane shit" challenged.
Curious how you propose that be done.
Like I said, I haven't seen it, but having the moderator prepared to fact check the most common lies he's spouted in the past. Chryons that also point it out. Turn off his mic when she's pointing out his lies or whenever he's misbehaving. Follow up questions. Call him out when he doesn't answer a question and don't move on to the next topic until he does. Fact check after the event.

Short of turning off his mic, all of that has been tried and none of it has any effect. None of it matters.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 1:37 am**

Alefroth wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 1:19 am

Short of turning off his mic, all of that has been tried and none of it has any effect.

Effect on what? On Trump? Or on the (non-MAGA) viewers?

And I'm not sure\not moving on to a new topic if he doesn't answer questions has been tried (in fact, it's usually the reverse) and it's been pretty rare for serious follow up questions to be asked.

Also, IIRC, Trump's numbers dropped modestly after his previous town halls.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 7:07 am**

Alefroth wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:53 pm
Defiant wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:32 pm But that platform should have included having his "insane shit" challenged.
Curious how you propose that be done.

Cut his mic? That's what talk show hosts do.

Edit: I see that mentioned

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 7:11 am**

Defiant wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 1:37 am
Alefroth wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 1:19 am

Short of turning off his mic, all of that has been tried and none of it has any effect.
Effect on what? On Trump? Or on the (non-MAGA) viewers?

And I'm not sure\not moving on to a new topic if he doesn't answer questions has been tried (in fact, it's usually the reverse) and it's been pretty rare for serious follow up questions to be asked.

It has been. It doesn't work. The reality is no media organization should be giving him free coverage. End of story. We're free to disagree but frankly we need no more evidence to have a pretty good idea this was a huge error. Giving him an open forum to spew lies to a population that isn't good at processing disinformation will continue to be a bad idea.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 7:07 am
Alefroth wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:53 pm
Defiant wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:32 pm But that platform should have included having his "insane shit" challenged.
Curious how you propose that be done.
Cut his mic? That's what talk show hosts do.

Edit: I see that mentioned

It'll never happen. Also, we know what he is going to do the whole time. He is going to lie. He is going to stoke potential violence. If they were prepared to cut his mic, they might as well not have him on the air which is the correct choice.

About the only thing we got out of this was it reinforced that America is a very hollow place. A lot of our fellow Americans are not decent. This was a dystopian moment.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 7:29 am**

Alefroth wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:53 pm Curious how you propose that be done.

You cut his mic so he can't outshout his host, for one. Tell him at the beginning that things are going to be civil and if he can't be civil they'll turn him off when it's not his turn.

edit: Lol. Whoops. *shrug*

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 7:36 am**

Once you accept this was a ratings ploy by CNN, everything else makes sense. All the deep analysis is meaningless. They were hoping he'd act like a goon and drive eyeballs to their channel - that's it.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 7:39 am**

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 7:36 am Once you accept this was a ratings ploy by CNN, everything else makes sense. All the deep analysis is meaningless. They were hoping he'd act like a goon and drive eyeballs to their channel - that's it.

Correct. I'm also pretty convinced all this rationalization from the media elite is to keep the ratings and dollars rolling in.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 7:47 am**

For today. Why they don't realize that their very existence is under threat by an authoritarian government, I have no idea. Russia's a role model, maybe?

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 7:49 am**

I watched some of the coverage this morning - most of it was the usual empty useless horse race stuff. Morning Joe had an excellent segment with a few voices who braved riding off the mainstream train. But the bright star for me was John Meacham. I wish I had the time to clip out the segment which I think was extremely succinct and clear. But I'll boil it down. He essentially noted that it isn't clear that Biden (or Trump) has the right number of voters in the right number of states. So he wonders if Biden truly was the big winner last night. It is a great way to unpack it but the risk is that beyond all this talk about unsuitability it may very well be extremely close because of the electoral college. He then went on to say it was more important to focus on defeating him by any means possible.

I also layer in that the GOP has a full-court press on right now. In many states they are doing their best to make sure that people can't vote. Specifically black, brown, and young people. Events like this will also potentially galvanize efforts to install Trump friendly election officials. He is the danger. We need to stop fucking around and finding out.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 7:52 am**

Only coverage I've heard so far is that Trump wants us to default on the debt ceiling. So I guess he does want to treat the US like his personal finances. If he wants more oxygen, apparently he needs to talk to Musk whom dominates every news cycle every day. Business, even though he's private and political when it's not his dog whistles or blatant rich white male only club rants.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 8:12 am**

That was also part of the danger. Of course, he advocated for economic disaster. He probably thinks it'll help him. He gets to complain about how Joe wrecked the economy. Maybe the Americans will correctly assign blame but let's get real - it is likely a decent risk/gamble for him to advocate for. It also aligns with him just being an unfit, idiot. Anyway, unless Biden does something extraordinary it does seem like we're going to default.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 8:19 am**

It all fits with the bigger strategy of the GOP doing everything they can to "break shit" and tank the economy heading into the 2024 election - knowing that the average person votes with their wallet. It's all about money. CNN hosting Trump? Money. COVID-19 policy? Money. I'm partially convinced at this point guns and ammo are making people insanely wealthy (directly and indirectly), so the right to own all the guns is just capitalism disguised as patriotic freedom.

What a time to be alive.

Regardless, if this is what the news media is planning on feasting off of during the next 17+ months, we're super ultra boned.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 8:49 am**

Another perspective:

A ton of ink (virtual or otherwise) has already been spilled on Trump and CNN. Obviously it was Trump at his most awful. And obviously CNN did our country a disservice by hosting what was effectively a Trump rally. But, there's an angle that's missing from the discussion.

Namely, the audience. These were all Trump supporters. Republicans and independents who were supporters of the former President. Clinton called them a "basket of deplorables" in 2016, and they got offended.

Last night was a reminder she was right.

They laughed and cheered as Trump mocked the woman he was found liable for sexually assaulting. He was cheered when he called "moderator" Kaitlan Collins "a nasty woman." They eagerly devoured the myriad of lies he told about EVERYTHING.It was a Gish Gallop, right down to claiming he would end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours without giving details. (Hint: there's no way the US could do that, even if we cut off aid immediately. Ukraine would keep fighting and looking for alternate suppliers of arms.). And they believe it all. They LOVE it all. The cruelty is the point. They love Trump and Putin and Orban. They love Jesus too, and have claimed all of American Christianity for their own. They've destroyed its reputation in the process.

For most decent people, who don't laugh at people for being raped, seeing someone wearing a cross is a big warning sign: this person is not safe. This person is not kind. This person does not even vaguely live in the same reality the rest of us do. And yes, this thread will get a lot of "not all Christians" messages here. But these folks are at the spearhead a fascist movement that revels in cruelty, domination, and abuse of power. Not everyone that wore a swastika pin was bad, but there weren't many Oskar Schindlers.

But, above all else, last night was a reminder of what America under Trump was, and will be again if we put him back in office. Cruel, theocratic, vulgar, misogynistic, unmoored from reality, ignorant, immune to evidence, and racist. These are not good people, even if they believe their religious beliefs make them inherently good. This is a movement centered on grievances and vengeance against enemies of the herrenvolk. What we saw are the true believers Milton Mayer wrote about.

Hardly anyone will read this. And even if it goes viral, it still isn't enough. But for those that do read it, I hope it reminds you that what is coming is dark beyond all belief. They want vengeance on those they believe they have tolerated for too long. There is no bottom: there is no point at which his supporters will say, "No, we're going too far, this is wrong." These are people with an axe to grind, and without empathy for anyone who seen as an enemy.

If the 2nd Trump administration was putting trans people through tree shredders, his supporters would demand that they be dipped in lemon juice first.

Last night was a chilling reminder not only can it happen here, it WILL happen here if we get a second Trump term.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 9:01 am**

Excellent

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 9:07 am**

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 7:36 am Once you accept this was a ratings ploy by CNN, everything else makes sense. All the deep analysis is meaningless. They were hoping he'd act like a goon and drive eyeballs to their channel - that's it.

I guess it was kind of effective - for years CNN has been my go-to for web news. When I get on the PC each morning that's the first tab I hit.

This morning I'm looking for another landing page.

So congrats CNN, I guess?

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 9:27 am**

Yeah, more than anything else I really want to know how that audience happened. Did they blithely follow whatever their normal town hall procedures and (unsurprisingly) wind up with that audience because Trump's people got the word out to their e-mail lists? More than anything else that audience made a mockery of any attempt for this to be a serious journalistic event (if that was ever really possible).

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 9:32 am**

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 7:36 am Once you accept this was a ratings ploy by CNN, everything else makes sense. All the deep analysis is meaningless. They were hoping he'd act like a goon and drive eyeballs to their channel - that's it.

This. Except who can know what they were hoping for, except the eyeballs. That's pretty clear, and says enough.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 9:34 am**

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:27 am Yeah, more than anything else I really want to know how that audience happened. Did they blithely follow whatever their normal town hall procedures and (unsurprisingly) wind up with that audience because Trump's people got the word out to their e-mail lists? More than anything else that audience made a mockery of any attempt for this to be a serious journalistic event (if that was ever really possible).

I read somewhere yesterday (will have to try and find it now) that it was intentional by CNN. They specifically and deliberately picked Republican and "Lean Republican Independents" for the audience.

Whether that was to make Trump more comfortable or simply to generate the level of deplorable that we witnessed (everyone is talking about CNN this morning, right?) is still up for debate, but it was absolutely intentional.

Posted: **Thu May 11, 2023 9:35 am**

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:34 am (everyone is talking about CNN this morning, right?)

That is all. Huge fucking success for CNN. HUGE win, here.
///
The CEO of CNN agrees with me:

Meanwhile, CNN CEO Chris Licht praised town hall moderator Kaitlan Collins for her masterful performance last night” during an editorial call with network staff.

“I couldn’t be more proud of her,” he added, according to former CNN media reporter Brian Stelter.

“America was served very well by what we did last night,” Mr Licht said.

Octopus Overlords

CNN Trump Town Hall

CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall

Re: CNN Trump Town Hall