Octopus Overlords

Not talking genres, but rather themes, mechanics, or other things that immediately turn you off from different games. A few for me:

1. Actual locations. If a game is set in a location that I could generally see in my own world, I tend to lose interest pretty quickly. I have to have some sense of fantasy or mystery to really get me interested. Even games with really good gameplay fall flat for me if they're set in a "real world" locale. For example, games like Persona 5, Yazuka: Like a Dragon, and Spiderman lose me because of their setting. I play games to escape from the real world, not run around in it more. (Thread was inspired by trying Ghostwire Tokyo last night. Interesting game mechanics, but the setting loses me.)

2. Post-apocalyptic. I have absolutely zero interest in post-apocalyptic anything. It's simply not a theme or setting that appeals to me in the least. Partly because it is typically closely aligned to #1 and #3, which is...

3. Zombies or mutants. I'm fine if a game includes zombies or mutants as one of many enemies (a la Diablo). But if the game is primarily focused around zombies or mutants? Forget it.

4. "Real world" weapons. If a game has laser guns, crossbows, or gloop guns, I'm in. A game with AK-47s, Glocks, and M16's and I'm immediately out. No interest whatsoever. The closer it gets to "realistic", the less I'm interested.

5. Anthropomorphic animals. Video games or board games that are centered around anthropomorphic animals are a big no for me, every single time. I can handle it if there's one or two characters (a la Frog in Chrono Trigger), but not if it's the entire theme (i.e. Armello, Ghost of a Tale, Everdell, etc.)

6. Lack of direction. Needless to say, I'm not great with sandbox games. I need clear directions and objectives to keep me interested in a game. "Do whatever you want!" is a tagline that turns me off every time.

What are yours?

Optional mini games within games that aren't actually optional if you want to get all of the trophies or the best ending.

Some examples, Gwent, whatever that game was in Assassin's Creed Valhalla, the card battle game in Legends of Heroes Cold Steel 4, any sort of card game within a game.

One of my pet peeves is repeatable quests and infinite respawns. My brain loves order, and I like to be able to see a list of things to do and then check those things off the list. I like to "complete" areas.

I know that in many games, repeatable quests and respawns are essential because you have to have a way to give a character a way to advance or grind if necessary and not lock them into a dead end. But I still find it incredibly annoying because those repeatable quests feel "unfinished" to me. And going into an area that is repopulated with spawns just makes me feel like I'm not actually making any difference in the world.

There are exceptions; I understand the respawning in Diablo, for instance, and it doesn't bother me too much. But in some games it just destroys me. Elden Ring for example - totally wasted $70 on that game due to the hype. But going through the same areas over and over fighting the same enemies made me put it down after less than 10 hours and I've never gone back.

Needless to say that means I'm not a big fan of roguelikes in general. Again, there are exceptions - I really enjoyed Hades, for example. But as a general rule it takes a lot to get me to even try them.

I can't think of anything that really bothers me consistently other than pixel graphics and I can ignore that if the game is good enough.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:28 am Not talking genres, but rather themes, mechanics, or other things that immediately turn you off from different games. A few for me:

1. Actual locations.
2. Post-apocalyptic.
3. Zombies or mutants.
4. "Real world" weapons.
5. Anthropomorphic animals.
6. Lack of direction. Needless to say, I'm not great with sandbox games. I need clear directions and objectives to keep me interested in a game. "Do whatever you want!" is a tagline that turns me off every time.

What are yours?

1. Indifferent
2. Love
3. Like
4. Like
5. Like
6. Dislike

Scraper wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:43 am Optional mini games within games that aren't actually optional if you want to get all of the trophies or the best ending.

Love

YellowKing wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:53 am One of my pet peeves is repeatable quests and infinite respawns.

Indifferent.

No manual save option

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:15 am No manual save option

Definitely this.

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:15 am No manual save option

The Forest has manual save, but not save anywhere. Is that acceptable. I mention it because it annoyed me this morning. I am generally ok with properly setup autosaves and I generally get long uninterrupted blocks of gaming time so I don't have the same issue many do there.

Pastel, cartoony graphics with splashy colors during combat.

Early, inescapable bosses with the difficulty turned up to 11.

Level caps or no way to level up before bosses.

Carpel tunnel inducing click fest.

Overuse of lens flare (not really but I had to include that).

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:15 am No manual save option

This (although it's not as much as an issue now that my kids are grown and out of the house, but when they were young this was a game killer).

Which leads to Linear play. A linear story line will kill it quickly for me. Replaying the same scenario over to get the perfect combo to win...nope, I'm out. I'll re-try a few times until I have to look up the answer or just move to another game.

It just occurred to me there were two I ran into recently in Gotham Knights. Not enough to ruin my enjoyment of the game, but very aggravating:

1. Early boss that was way too powerful to take on at the game's suggested level. I had to come back and beat him when I was overleveled. Sooooo annoying. I confirmed that I wasn't missing anything - it's pretty universally acknowledged it's one of the toughest bosses in the game even though it's one of the first you encounter.

2. Sequence in which you had to navigate a very difficult timing puzzle. One touch death if you miscalculated. And no way forward without getting past it. And even worse, you had to run down a long hallway and spend 30-45 seconds getting back to that point every time you died. That kind of thing should be caught and corrected in playtesting.

A story that's almost entirely told through audio logs. Sometimes they're well done, but I don't want to sit and give them my full attention. But if I listen to them as I play the game I get distracted and have to replay them. Even worse if it's text-only lore I have to access a menu to read!

Similarly, lengthier in-game dialogue that can't be skipped. I wish there were an option to speed up the playback speed like on Youtube or in podcast apps. Being able to read the dialogue at the same time as slower voice acting plays is such a turn-off. I want to hear it, but I also don't want to sit around when I'm done reading.

Not knowing whether dialogue is flavour dialogue that can be skipped, or when I've heard everything there is to hear. The OCD completionist in me needs to check. I remember the tavern keepers in Dragon Age seemed to have a million "world news" responses that were interesting, but I just got bored.

Overly-anime anything.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:23 am Early, inescapable bosses with the difficulty turned up to 11.

I would say any boss with the difficulty cranked to 11, but that's mostly become a genre in and of itself at this point (and is one that I generally avoid).

Two other things I thought of:

- No quest markers. I don't necessarily need a giant flashing "!" above someone's head, but at least some indication that I'm in the general area is a must. If you make me wander around trying to figure out WTF I'm supposed to do next, chances are I'm going to wander right out of your game.
- Sidequest explosions. One game I tried recently (I think it was one of the Pathfinder games) dropped 16 quests on me within 5 minutes of leaving the tutorial area. I noped out of that pretty quickly.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:28 am 6. Lack of direction. Needless to say, I'm not great with sandbox games. I need clear directions and objectives to keep me interested in a game. "Do whatever you want!" is a tagline that turns me off every time.

I'm with you on this. I don't generally have the time to dedicate to random exploration. I'm perfectly happy with linear gameplay.

1) Crafting (I don't wanna. Ever.)
2) No manual save (or, if there are specific save points, having them not be < 5 min apart)
3) Lack of direction (more specifically, terrible quest guidance--looking at you, Octopath side quests)

I'm with most people on the manual save but sometimes fine if it is autosaving at a reasonable enough interval (< 5-10 minutes).

I'm also not a huge fan of 'Lack of Direction'. I'm even fine with a hybrid - for example strong main quest guidance w/ more exploration available to folks who want to grind or get more 'flavor text' from an experience. But that main quest needs to have a fleshed out story and a consistent push in the direction towards complete.

Respawning. Far Cry 3 was the worst.

• The inevitable "you got knocked out and lost your powers/items/weapons/etc. quest." I really hate it when a game takes your inventory or removes your progress.

• Reflex-based lockpicking.I basically would save and reload in games like Skyrim and just pick every high-level chest. It reduces the need to put any emphasis on the skill. I do, however, like logic-based lock picking and hacking minigames if they aren't too time-consuming.

• Chase scenes that either overstay their welcome or where the big-bad teleports. I don't mind a good chase scene, but sometimes they go on FOREVER and they don't relent or let you focus on other things. And I also hate it when you lose the big bad and the game compensates by just unfairly teleporting it right to you.

• Crucial limited inventory "buffs." I may be in the minority here, but I absolutely hate potions, scrolls, and other things that are single use. I almost NEVER use them because I am a hoarder, and they almost never have the impact I want. I really hate them when the game compensates for their existence by making encounters impossible unless you use them, but doesn't really let you know when/why they are most effective.

• Games that don't have a pause or where pause locks you from looking at inventory or other stuff. I'm looking at you Monster Hunter.

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:15 am No manual save option

It was one thing when I was 20 and could play all day, but now? Adult. I can't always play long enough to make progress to the next save point, and it often keeps me from playing games. Even those where it is acceptable are sometimes an issue. Total War, for instance. Yeah, I can hop on an play a turn, then save and walk away if I need to. But if I get attacked? I'm going to be stuck in that chair for the next 45 minutes with no option to leave. It makes sense not saving during a battle, but it often does keep me from being able to play.

Pixel graphics: I spent decades with pixel graphics, and feel like I moved on. I don't want SNES-era graphics any more than I want Atari 2600-era graphics. Disclaimer: This one is actually something I see as a flaw in myself. I know I can enjoy pixel graphics, as I did for many, many years (and have many fond memories of those games.) I am missing out on games I would enjoy because of this silly mental block. I'm actually wanting to play Octopath Traveler to get myself the %*#)& over it.

Gameplay based on repetition: By which I mean games where you're expected to try-and-fail, retry-and-fail, retry-and-fail, over and over until you get it right. That's utterly unappealing to me. I want the experience of going through the events in the game, and repeating the same event over and over is not fun. It's like sitting down to read a great novel, then reading chapter one eight times, getting page or two further each time, before finally getting to see chapter 2. I get that people like the challenge, but it kills the sense of narrative, setting, and everything else for me.

Difficulty for difficulty's sake: Alternate titles I considered: "Frustration as a mechanic", "Games requiring perfection". Related to the above. I'm not perfect. I want to be able to make mistakes and have a chance to recover from them (thinking on my feet is fun, adapting and finding a way.) I don't want every simple mistake to be 'game over' or 'respawn time.' I want a challenge. I don't want story mode. I also don't want the game to grind me under it's heel and laugh at my misery. Frustration isn't fun to me, not in any way. It isn't fun anymore than sadness, or pain. Blech.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:28 am 3. Zombies or mutants. I'm fine if a game includes zombies or mutants as one of many enemies (a la Diablo). But if the game is primarily focused around zombies or mutants? Forget it.

Not arguing with your opinion (it's an opinion, after all), just picking this one up for discussion.

Yeah, they were over done, but I know several people who are so anti-zombie that they won't touch anything that involves them - be it literature, film, television, video games, or tabletop. It's strange to me, as we consume media that is full of examples of mindless hordes. The way they're used, zombies are just Starship Troopers bugs or Aliens xenomorphs with different skins.

As to mutants... I'm not entirely sure what you mean. The term covers everything from Warhammer's Chaos cultists to Fallout's supermutants to the X-Men.

i have never been into the concept of 'boss' enemies. this is a trend that started around the mid-80s and it just annoyed me that i would be happily blasting along all the usual opponents and then the screen would darken and the music would change and a giant guy crawls onto the screen with 10000000 health and cause me to use umpteen quarters so i'd have to quit playing.

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:26 pm i have never been into the concept of 'boss' enemies. this is a trend that started around the mid-80s and it just annoyed me that i would be happily blasting along all the usual opponents and then the screen would darken and the music would change and a giant guy crawls onto the screen with 10000000 health and cause me to use umpteen quarters so i'd have to quit playing.

A giant guy with four arms and three sequential combat forms who was a perfectly normal guy every time you encountered him up to that point. Yeah, in most games, boss battles are overdone and need to go away as a narrative element.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:28 am Not talking genres, but rather themes, mechanics, or other things that immediately turn you off from different games. A few for me:

1. Actual locations. If a game is set in a location that I could generally see in my own world, I tend to lose interest pretty quickly. I have to have some sense of fantasy or mystery to really get me interested. Even games with really good gameplay fall flat for me if they're set in a "real world" locale. For example, games like Persona 5, Yazuka: Like a Dragon, and Spiderman lose me because of their setting. I play games to escape from the real world, not run around in it more. (Thread was inspired by trying Ghostwire Tokyo last night. Interesting game mechanics, but the setting loses me.)

2. Post-apocalyptic. I have absolutely zero interest in post-apocalyptic anything. It's simply not a theme or setting that appeals to me in the least. Partly because it is typically closely aligned to #1 and #3, which is...

3. Zombies or mutants. I'm fine if a game includes zombies or mutants as one of many enemies (a la Diablo). But if the game is primarily focused around zombies or mutants? Forget it.

4. "Real world" weapons. If a game has laser guns, crossbows, or gloop guns, I'm in. A game with AK-47s, Glocks, and M16's and I'm immediately out. No interest whatsoever. The closer it gets to "realistic", the less I'm interested.

5. Anthropomorphic animals. Video games or board games that are centered around anthropomorphic animals are a big no for me, every single time. I can handle it if there's one or two characters (a la Frog in Chrono Trigger), but not if it's the entire theme (i.e. Armello, Ghost of a Tale, Everdell, etc.)

6. Lack of direction. Needless to say, I'm not great with sandbox games. I need clear directions and objectives to keep me interested in a game. "Do whatever you want!" is a tagline that turns me off every time.

What are yours?

I read the first number and immediately thought to myself, "Ah, but they did such a great job of this in the Fallout series with Boston and D.C. areas! It wasn't identical, but there were some identifiable things to keep it somewhat familiar, you should try that series!"

Then I read #2...and #3...and #4...and #6...

Nevermind.

Quicktime events.

In-game substitutes for standard menu items. Like having to walk to a console for character stats or inventory or whatever. Don't mind if it's in the game for flavor but give me an option in a menu shortcut so I don't have to walk across a building to look in my pockets.


In general I'm flexible and if a mechanic I don't like works, I'll trust the devs. For example, I prefer save anywhere but have played plenty of games without it that were just fine.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:26 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:28 am 3. Zombies or mutants. I'm fine if a game includes zombies or mutants as one of many enemies (a la Diablo). But if the game is primarily focused around zombies or mutants? Forget it.

Not arguing with your opinion (it's an opinion, after all), just picking this one up for discussion.

Yeah, they were over done, but I know several people who are so anti-zombie that they won't touch anything that involves them - be it literature, film, television, video games, or tabletop. It's strange to me, as we consume media that is full of examples of mindless hordes. The way they're used, zombies are just Starship Troopers bugs or Aliens xenomorphs with different skins.

That's pretty much me. I have zero interest in anything where zombies are the primary focus. It immediately kills my interest. Not even sure why, really...I've just never enjoyed zombies in, well, anything.

As to mutants... I'm not entirely sure what you mean. The term covers everything from Warhammer's Chaos cultists to Fallout's supermutants to the X-Men.

I'm thinking mostly as it ties into post-apocalyptic games. Fallout, Resident Evil, Last of Us, etc.

Coming back with a big one: Pushy games.

I play a lot of online cooperative games. Lately, there has been a trend for developers to put out a game with three or four modes, find out which one is popular (generally a hardcore competitive mode), and then do everything in their power to push players to only play that mode. Sometimes they use the carrot (special unlockables), but other times they go out of their way to weaken and penalize the players who use other modes. They might seriously reduce the progression in other modes (XP, in-game resource gain.) In others, they may simply ignore game-breaking bugs and balance issues that crop up in other modes when they update their chosen mode. And then you get sequels (I'm looking at you, Darktide) that simply remove the ability to play that other mode at all. Examples, from recent experience:

Darktide turned off allied bots if you play solo, making it nearly impossible to do (there are too many specials to manage 100% of the time), and forcing people to use matchmaking with random assholes to actually be able to play. If you have at least two party members, you get bots. They're crappy bots, but they exist. But solo? Nope.

Rainbow Six: Siege has crippled the cooperative mode so much that it's pointless. There's almost zero resource progression, you don't get access to the free unlocks, 3/4 of the characters have abilities that don't even function in that mode (like a character that can see IR impressions of footsteps - but they won't give the AI footsteps, making his ability unusable.)

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:50 pm Last of Us

Those were zombies. They were just fungal zombies rather than viral zombies.

baelthazar wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:59 pm

• Chase scenes that either overstay their welcome or where the big-bad teleports. I don't mind a good chase scene, but sometimes they go on FOREVER...
  
  • Games that don't have a pause or where pause locks you from looking at inventory or other stuff.

You hit on a couple of mine. Uncharted (I think it was IV) was ruined for me when it changed from exploration to unending car car chases.

I hate when you pause to look around and the screen is blurred out.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:28 am
4. "Real world" weapons. If a game has laser guns, crossbows, or gloop guns, I'm in. A game with AK-47s, Glocks, and M16's and I'm immediately out. No interest whatsoever. The closer it gets to "realistic", the less I'm interested.

What are yours?

The flip side of this really irritates me. I hate weapons that are too fantastic and unrealistic. A sword that is longer and wider than the human body being wielded by a slender waif? A mounted machine gun being used one-handed? I can't focus on anything but how stupid it seems.

BTW, why isn't a crossbow a real world weapon? Or are you more focused on modern weapons?

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:01 pm Rainbow Six: Siege has crippled the cooperative mode so much that it's pointless. There's almost zero resource progression, you don't get access to the free unlocks, 3/4 of the characters have abilities that don't even function in that mode (like a character that can see IR impressions of footsteps - but they won't give the AI footsteps, making his ability unusable.)

Having somewhat recently played this some more, it was the first game that came to mind. "crippled" is a nice way of putting it.

TheMix wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:48 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:01 pm Rainbow Six: Siege has crippled the cooperative mode so much that it's pointless. There's almost zero resource progression, you don't get access to the free unlocks, 3/4 of the characters have abilities that don't even function in that mode (like a character that can see IR impressions of footsteps - but they won't give the AI footsteps, making his ability unusable.)

Having somewhat recently played this some more, it was the first game that came to mind. "crippled" is a nice way of putting it.

Cooperative players don't go in for microtransactions, because they're less likely to want to show off while teabagging the teammate they caused to die.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:15 pm

TheMix wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:48 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:01 pm Rainbow Six: Siege has crippled the cooperative mode so much that it's pointless. There's almost zero resource progression, you don't get access to the free unlocks, 3/4 of the characters have abilities that don't even function in that mode (like a character that can see IR impressions of footsteps - but they won't give the AI footsteps, making his ability unusable.)

Having somewhat recently played this some more, it was the first game that came to mind. "crippled" is a nice way of putting it.

Cooperative players don't go in for microtransactions, because they're less likely to want to show off while teabagging the teammate they caused to die.

Wait... Are you saying I shouldn't be teabagging my friend? Hmm... maybe that's why he doesn't return my calls any more...

That all depends on the friend...

You all had me at teabagging!

JK LOL!!

Some of my turnoffs, I realize I sound like an old man, but so what! Just cuz I’m getting old doesn’t mean I don’t deserve an opinion.

1. JUMPING PUZZLES - for the love of god does every 3D game have to have a bunch of jumping/grappling puzzles to satisfy people? Does everyone love all these? I admit it can be gratifying to have jumping capability and look really cool at times, but when it’s a really specific puzzle and you have to land it and time it a certain way to progress further, it drives me nuts.

2. TIMED/OBSCURE PUZZLES - the corollary to 1 is timed crap. The only thing that makes jumping and/or other puzzles worse is the pressure of needing to finish them with limited time. Some puzzles I’m just never gonna figure out, or if they require some bizarre pixel hunt. I hate when I have to rely on looking up a solution for a puzzle, and then realize I really was never going to figure it out myself.

3. UNDERWATER GAMEPLAY (mostly in MMOs) - while there are certain aspects I like about the idea of underwater gameplay, I can’t stand it when I have a breath timer (see number 2), it just gives me anxiety. And then when they slow the movement down to snail pace while swimming. Not fun for me.

4. INSANE DIFFICULTY/REFLEX PLAY - covered this enough in Elden Ring, but I don’t agree with the concept that more difficult is better, mainly because the “difficult” tends to be in an area where I am simply just horribly bad. It’s clear to me that my timing and viewing of certain game types (like trying to block or parry) is simply not the same as the required “normal” amount of skill. There have been so many times where I could barely hit the timing in the tutorial, or I could swear I was following something correctly but it just doesn’t happen the same way it does for me on a YouTube video


I’ve got a lot more pet peeves but I’ll hold for now.

I'd have to go with:
Anime.
RTS
FPS (except for FO series and Skyrim
side to side
Stardew Valley type games.
Zombies
Sims like driving and flying
MMO/multiplayer

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:49 pm I'd have to go with:
Anime.
RTS
FPS (except for FO series and Skyrim
side to side
Stardew Valley type games.
Zombies
Sims like driving and flying
MMO/multiplayer

So, non-4x or RPG. Got it.

That's pretty damn close.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:52 pm That's pretty damn close.

So, to bring this back to the topic (which specified 'not talking genres'), what things do you find an immediate turn-off when you play an RPG or 4x?

#1 Bad DRM

I hate to say it, because it's in just about every game really (and many I still enjoy)... but I don't like how my character can so often take anything they want from a room.
There are some RPGs where you cannot do this if you are witnessed, etc - and that's what I want. But there are others where it's just a free-for-all. I find it to be game-design-lazy and breaks my feeling of immersion. Hogwarts is a fine example of this.

Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:32 pm I hate to say it, because it's in just about every game really (and many I still enjoy)... but I don't like how my character can so often take anything they want from a room.
There are some RPGs where you cannot do this if you are witnessed, etc - and that's what I want. But there are others where it's just a free-for-all. I find it to be game-design-lazy and breaks my feeling of immersion. Hogwarts is a fine example of this.

And still others where doing it somehow marks the item as stolen regardless of how common it is.

And still others where stealing a dinner fork instantly alerts every guard in ten square miles, beams your face into their perfect memory, and plants a homing beacon in your soul that every guard then converges on.

Yes.

I'd love a game where you could take a fork, unobserved, and hock it easily. And then also, if you steal a family heirloom, you need to break it down, sell it cheap, or far away.

And totally, yes, the whole thing where (especially in a medieval setting) where all the guards are aware of who you are and you clearly are highlighted for them - that's also very stupid.

Hogwarts was unbelievably annoying. You could break into a person's house (bust their lock) go into their home where they are eating dinner, and just strat taking ever single thing of value. And they don't even blink... it's clearly all there for you... the game wants and expects you to take it... for many things, you actually need to (collecting statues to complete a quest) - it annoyed the hell out of me.