Lets talk about beds.

[UsulofDoom]

Finally put my water bed to sleep after over 25 years of service. Sleeping on a memory foam that was in the guest room at the moment. The memory foam seems hard and hot to sleep on.

The water bed was motionless and would be warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

Anyone using the sleep number or purple mattress? Are they any good?

Just for my self now. queen size.

[dbt1949]

I've been using sleep number for over 20 years. All I've ever bought was the middle range ones. As they advertise You keep adjusting the sleep number until you find the one you like. Then you maybe change it again a month later. I went for years at 45 but this year I've changed it to around 60.
My little dogs recommend it too. If you go with queen size you may have to go with a double mattress. That's why I went with full this time around.

[Lassr]

I've have a Purple (9") for about a year now. I really like it, it stays cool in the summer. It is a bit softer than standard memory foam mattresses due to the honeycomb design. My question that is unanswered is, how long will it last? The standard memory foam mattresses I'd pay $500 for would last me 5 years before it would sink in too much and not offer as much support. I would hope to get more years than that for the Purple at $1600 I paid.

The one issue with the 9" mattress is fitted sheets. Most fitted sheets all have deep pockets meant for 12+" mattresses, so they will wad up on the purple. We had to buy a pillow top mattress topper to help the sheets fit (but it adds warmth to the mattress which was ok in the winter but it will not be ok when it starts warming up. There are fitted sheets made for smaller mattresses but they are more expensive than regular sheets. Other option is get a thicker purple for about $400+ more...

So, if you have the extra money, Purple is great but get the thicker models and not the basic.

[dbt1949]

They last something over ten years, or at least mine have. I have the middle of the road types and I don't think I've ever gone with it as deep as 9". But if money were no object I'd go with as thick as I could get.
I usually pay about $1200.

[disarm]

We were an early adopter of a Casper mattress almost eight years ago and it's been great. I cant speak directly for their newer model mattresses, but our original is still going strong...no noticeable degradation and I sleep just as well now as I did when it was new. We bought a second for a guest room a year later and my 8yo son uses it now...also holding up well.

When we needed new mattresses for our older kids around four years ago, we went with Leesa just to try something different and they seem to be good quality as well. Our two 14yo girls could probably sleep anywhere, but they've never made any complaints.

Prices have definitely gone up in recent years, but we spent less for four mail-order foam mattresses that have been great than we would have spent for the one $3k queen size traditional mattress that my wife and I almost bought before taking a chance on Casper.

[LordMortis]

Dunno but I'm interested in the results. I need a new mattress and box spring and I'm no mood to buy one. So, I'm hoping something comes out of this thread for when that time comes. I also was engaging the idea of Purple.

[Madmarcus]

I guess I'm the cheapskate!

We want a new mattress. Our box springs are fine and we don't want to reduce the height of the bed so we plan on keeping them. After sleeping on some memory foam mattresses in AirBnB's we figured Zinus would work and a 10" queen is under $300. If we like it we'll buy a second one for the guest bedroom. If we don't like it we'll buy a different one and move it to the guest bedroom. No matter when that guest bedroom will get a simpler platform or slat type bed from so that it doesn't need a box spring.

[stessier]

I've have a Purple (9") for about a year now. I really like it, it stays cool in the summer. It is a bit softer than standard memory foam mattresses due to the honeycomb design. My question that is unanswered is, how long will it last? The standard memory foam mattresses I'd pay $500 for would last me 5 years before it would sink in too much and not offer as much support. I would hope to get more years than that for the Purple at $1600 I paid.

The one issue with the 9" mattress is fitted sheets. Most fitted sheets all have deep pockets meant for 12+" mattresses, so they will wad up on the purple. We had to buy a pillow top mattress topper to help the sheets fit (but it adds warmth to the mattress which was ok in the winter but it will not be ok when it starts warming up. There are fitted sheets made for smaller mattresses but they are more expensive than regular sheets. Other option is get a thicker purple for about $400+ more...

So, if you have the extra money, Purple is great but get the thicker models and not the basic.

For the 9" issue, just put the pillow topper underneath the mattress in the summer. Same height but cooler.

For the OP, we have a Tempurpedic. We got the standard, no frills version in 2004 and are looking at replacing it next year. They are extremely expensive, though.

[Alefroth]

Why did you get rid of the water bed? Why not consider another one?

Memory foam is definitely warmer.

I've had a Dormia memory foam mattress and it's still holding up after 10 years.

[hitbyambulance]

this thread is relevant - starting to look for a new mattress now. consumer reports gives the Avocado Green a fantastic rating, but you have to rotate it every two months or so.

https://www.avocadogreenmattress.com/co ... 4397504662

[Madmarcus]

The thread got me back into researching beds and it seems there is now a class action lawsuit against Zinus for fiberglass problems. Back to looking for other options. I'm not too concerned about rock bottom prices - I settled on Zinus after we found them comfortable in multiple places - but I'm not really in to paying 1k or more.

[Kraken]

I ordered a Saatva queen a week ago. Paid $1,429 including tax. Order status says "Estimated delivery around March 9-17." The price includes free delivery to my 2nd floor bedroom and removal of the old mattress, which is important; I'm too old to even think about trying to haul mattresses up and down stairs myself. Don't order one of these if you're in a hurry.

I'll update when I have an opinion of it, but it looks like that won't happen for a while.

[Isgrimnur]

this thread is relevant - starting to look for a new mattress now. consumer reports gives the Avocado Green a fantastic rating, but you have to rotate it every two months or so.

https://www.avocadogreenmattress.com/co ... 4397504662

Does it turn brown if you don't?

[hitbyambulance]

but I'm not really in to paying 1k or more.

mattresses are one of the home house goods you really need to invest in. this is your sleep and bones and joints we're talking about...

(good task/office chair is another thing worth spending money on)

[gbasden]

We've had a Sleep Number for 22 years and it's finally failing. We did a lot of looking and finally ordered another Sleep Number when we caught one for half off. They are expensive, but amortized over 22 years it's not a lot.

[UsulofDoom]

Why did you get rid of the water bed? Why not consider another one?

Memory foam is definitely warmer.

I've had a Dormia memory foam mattress and it's still holding up after 10 years.

It had a slow leak that I did not notice since the water bed liner failed. I have replaced the bladder once and also have patched before. Usually if it does leak the bladder will send the water to the top and you know it's leaking. Since the liner failure, water went into all the particle board and caused expansion. The soft side also needed changing.

I might still go with the water bed but want to see what my options are. My friend swears by the eight sleep pod 3 mattress. https://www.eightsleep.com/compare/

[Madmarcus]

I'm not trying to bust your balls hitbyambulance! You've simply stumbled on one of my pet peeves. Also, because of that I'll be long winded.

For information sake I currently sleep on a 26 year old traditional mattress that was middle of the road or perhaps on the low end when we got it. It's fine. No joint pains or anything but it is a lot softer and, as an old school mattress, connected than the foam mattress we got used to overseas. Does it connect to my wife's sleep issues? Perhaps although of course we came back to it while right in the middle of menopause and a lot of change of the type that people say tends to disturb your sleep (my retirement, selling a house, buying a house, moving, helping my MIL move both physically and emotionally, my mom's health issues).

For that matter I tend to sit on one of two 60+ year old office/task chairs without any issues I can see that aren't related to simply sitting too much. I've had better task chairs before at work and home without any noticeable difference.

mattresses are one of the home house goods you really need to invest in. this is your sleep and bones and joints we're talking about...

(good task/office chair is another thing worth spending money on)

I know that what I said above on my situation is anecdotal data, small sample size, and survivorship bias. Which perhaps is balanced by the fact that all of the research I've seen on the benefits of different mattresses come from people actively trying to sell mattresses. More independent reviews lean towards factual data (density of foam) and quality of the materials but they feel a lot like car review sites that tell me my purchase of a Honda Civic was strictly inferior to an Acura Integra. True in a purely factual sense but wrong as it doesn't take into account my indifference to many of the things that make the Integra "better" and more expensive. More direct personal reviews are, as expected, all over the place but the trend seems to be that price doesn't directly correlate to quality.

I'd never really put it that way in my mind before but the car analogy is great. I'm the type of person who buys Honda Civics without the bells and whistles and drives them for 15 years. Who probably would have replaced the last Civic with a Fit except that they discontinued that and a very lightly used Prius fell into my lap. What's the mattress equivalent of a Civic or Fit? Functional, economical, a little boring perhaps and certainly not luxurious in any way but basically well made?

[disarm]

but I'm not really in to paying 1k or more.

mattresses are one of the home house goods you really need to invest in. this is your sleep and bones and joints we're talking about...

(good task/office chair is another thing worth spending money on)

With the advent of online mattress companies, I really don't think you have to spend a lot of money to get a great mattress anymore. Mattress salespeople are some of the worst I've ever dealt with (worse than buying a car), and that entire industry is set up to screw you over. Ever notice that no two stores ever sell exactly the same mattress? There's no competition or price matching because each store gets a product with a slightly different appearance and name, even though the mattress itself is often identical.

When we were shopping eight years ago, the mattress we found in a local store that seemed best would have cost us $3000 (queen size). We stumbled across Casper, and their 100-day trial with full refund convinced us to at least give it a shot. We really had nothing to lose other than the little bit of time it would take to get something else if we changed our mind. Years later, it's the best decision we could have made...only spent $700 at the time and have had eight years of great sleep. I doubt I'll ever deal with a mattress store or salesperson again.

[Madmarcus]

Disarm did a nice job of saying the same stuff but without the pet peeve aspect.

[WYBaugh]

We've had a Sleep Number for 22 years and it's finally failing. We did a lot of looking and finally ordered another Sleep Number when we caught one for half off. They are expensive, but amortized over 22 years it's not a lot.

Us too. Loved my original sleep number. We have split king with mechanical base. We bought a new sleep number a little over a year ago and it's been a nightmare of problems for my wife's side of the bed. Their support really sucks...you have to troubleshoot the issues then call them with error codes to order parts, wait months for parts to show then have some contract person come out and install.

[Unagi]

Disarm did a nice job of saying the same stuff but without the pet peeve aspect.

Wait. You two were saying the same thing?

[Madmarcus]

Pretty much yes. We're both arguing against the idea that a mattress is a special product that you need to invest in instead of another product that be evaluated like everything else by trying to find what is the frugal means of meeting your needs.

[Unagi]

I felt like he said: “you can actually get a really great quality mattress online now”

And I felt like you were saying “omg people put too much into ‘mattress quality’ and you will find that doesn’t really matter”

[Madmarcus]

I felt like he said: “you can actually get a really great quality mattress online now”

And I felt like you were saying “omg people put too much into ‘mattress quality’ and you will find that doesn’t really matter”

Fair enough! I read them as very similar because I would describe my past Civics as great cars.

[Blackhawk]

I'd say that getting the idea that you have to get the absolute top of the line, most-perfect-possible bed is where people put too much emphasis, but getting a good, healthy bed is still of significant importance. In other words, going for 90% perfect instead of 99.9% perfect.

Just because a cheap or worn bed isn't causing you pain now doesn't mean that it isn't doing damage to your joints and spine that will cause you major (possibly permanent) problems and pain down the road. That kind of damage, short of injury, tends to be slow and cumulative.

[Daehawk]

I miss my waterbed. Dad one weekend out of the blue took us to the waterbed store and got me one and him one. He got a waveless type thing but not me. I was a teenager of like 13 and wanted the motion of the ocean wooo. Anyway got me a king size...unfortunately it wouldn't fit lol..no room to walk around it in my little room so settled on a Queen. It hurt my bad back at first but I soon got used to it and it passed.

Had that bed until I moved out to be with my future wife when I was 18. He kept it....told me 3 or 4 years later I need to come get it if I want to keep it. But I had no way to do it or anywhere to put it so he gave it to my brother...who committed suicide soon after so no idea where my bed ended up. Still miss it. Had a bookcase headboard I kept my stuff in and all.

There was just the right amount of water in it for me. But if someone sat down quickly on it i almost flew out lol.

[Blackhawk]

My very first paid job was as a 'duster' in a waterbed store back in '83/'84. I loved the things - but never owned one. Today I have a Tuft & Needle memory foam mattress. It's the best thing I've ever slept on, and has done wonders for my back and hips compared to my old spring mattress. Now if I could just get the pillow right...

[Madmarcus]

Just because a cheap or worn bed isn't causing you pain now doesn't mean that it isn't doing damage to your joints and spine that will cause you major (possibly permanent) problems and pain down the road.

I don't necessarily disagree but doesn't this scream snake oil? Even if you have no indication of anything wrong now you might be doing major damage! The only way to be sure is to buy a new mattress but remember that it must be well made or you will be right back doing invisible damage. Since you can't judge anything based on your impressions of comfort so your only rational move is to overbuy (invest!).

Shrug. I get the feeling that most everyone else is starting with the assumption that one should buy the best one can afford when I'm closer to buying the least expensive that meets my needs.

[Blackhawk]

Just because a cheap or worn bed isn't causing you pain now doesn't mean that it isn't doing damage to your joints and spine that will cause you major (possibly permanent) problems and pain down the road.

I don't necessarily disagree but doesn't this scream snake oil? Even if you have no indication of anything wrong now you might be doing major damage! The only way to be sure is to buy a new mattress but remember that it must be well made or you will be right back doing invisible damage.

The same thing could be said about bad posture, or excessive sitting, or eating McDonald's for every meal, or living a high-stress lifestyle. All do 'invisible damage' that is quite real, despite 'no indication of anything wrong now.' At some point you have to find the balance between trusting your own experience, trusting advertising, and trusting science.

That still doesn't mean...

Since you can't judge anything based on your impressions of comfort so your only rational move is to overbuy (invest!).

Shrug. I get the feeling that most everyone else is starting with the assumption that one should buy the best one can afford when I'm closer to buying the least expensive that meets my needs.

That's not at all what I said. I said (paraphrasing) that it's not necessary to get something perfect, but that you need to get something that's a step or two below that. Getting the least expensive for your needs is great - as long as you aren't interpreting your needs purely by your current subjective experience (after all, McDonald's Five Guys gives a pretty good subjective experience with no real immediate consequences.) Basing something off of 'need' includes understanding that there are needs that your body has that you're not aware of.

And again, science is a thing.

[Madmarcus]

That's not at all what I said. I said (paraphrasing) that it's not necessary to get something perfect, but that you need to get something that's a step or two below that. Getting the least expensive for your needs is great - as long as you aren't interpreting your needs purely by your current subjective experience (after all, McDonald's Five Guys gives a pretty good subjective experience with no real immediate consequences.) Basing something off of 'need' includes understanding that there are needs that your body has that you're not aware of.

Do you have any references pointing to mattress selection to avoid future problems? I don't. Google scholar seems to strike out also. As Vice (https://www.vice.com/en/article/aekgk4/ ... r-mattress) article that I was looking at last year points out this seems to be a combination of science downplaying the subject and the fact that individual factors between people seem to dominate not the mattress type themselves when you talk about quality of sleep. Basically there is no information on what is the best bed for long term health. Additionally the article specifically points out that while individual factors are very important people are horrible at selecting a mattress that is good for them (referring to sleep quality not future muscle or joint issues) but without data there isn't anything else to go with but your own estimate of how well you sleep on each bed.

A good meta analysis of data on mattresses for improving lower back pain (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8655046/) was published recently. After looking at 39 studies from 2000-2019 their overall takeaway is the medium firm (using a European firmness standard that is hard to track down and compare to any specifically available mattress) is best for both helping with pain and overall sleep quality. No conclusion was drawn concerning type (foam, latex, coil, hybrid, or air). You can pick out a few other things by looking at the individual studies in the meta analysis but it really does seem to boil down to too many variables to give a good recommendation or recommendations with any more detail. I love the abstract of one included study; it concluded with the line "The percentage of wake after sleep onset was lower when subject slept in a comfortable bed," although comfortable wasn't defined!

Finally, none of the studies in the meta analysis or that I have seen referenced elsewhere mention anything about mattresses causing problems without some form of symptoms. The indication is that unless you are specifically not sleeping well or waking up with pain there is no science that should lead you to worry about future effects. In fact it is called out in places that mattress manufacturers have made such claims but there is no supporting evidence that any specific type, material, or firmness of mattress as being better at protecting against future harm. The only statement that might relate to a need that your body has the you are not aware of are is really directed at doctors and salesman; there is data to show that hard beds do not help with lower back pain and doctors/salesmen should stop suggesting that they can help.

I brought this on myself by talking about pet peeves and anecdotal data. But I started to look at mattresses last year knowing we were coming back to an older one and it really does seem to be that getting a medium-firm mattress that you find comfortable is about as much as you can do. Can you get that in the $600 one? $1000? Do you have to go $3k and up? No one can really point it out. With the online companies you can try out models if you are willing to deal with the hassle which is a good deal. But medium-firm is a broad target, no one provides easily comparable data, and the breadth of models (MF, latex, hybrid, different layers in different arrangements) turns it into guess work anyway.

[Blackhawk]

That's not at all what I said. I said (paraphrasing) that it's not necessary to get something perfect, but that you need to get something that's a step or two below that. Getting the least expensive for your needs is great - as long as you aren't interpreting your needs purely by your current subjective experience (after all, McDonald's Five Guys gives a pretty good subjective experience with no real immediate consequences.) Basing something off of 'need' includes understanding that there are needs that your body has that you're not aware of.

Do you have any references pointing to mattress selection to avoid future problems? I don't.

Honestly? Not without going down a rabbit hole. I did so four or five years ago when I bought my current bed, and am going off of what I learned then.

I don't think that we disagree all that much. I agree that going for the $3,000 mattress is probably absurd unless you have a really good reason or money to burn. But going with a broken down second-hand mattress, sticking with a old one with completely worn out springs, or getting the ultra-discount Walmart Special is probably not a good idea, either. Understand what your body needs (beyond just the comfort factor - and including individual needs - mine are certainly different) and use common sense.

[Madmarcus]

Do you have any references pointing to mattress selection to avoid future problems? I don't.

Honestly? Not without going down a rabbit hole. I did so four or five years ago when I bought my current bed, and am going off of what I learned then.

I don't think that we disagree all that much.

We probably don't. Which is why I find some of the assumptions frustrating. Initially I mentioned considering Zinus in the context of being surprised at how comfortable it was when I encountered a couple of them in AirBnBs. It's one of Wirecutter's suggested picks. Yes it is at the cheap end of the BIAB spectrum which had led me to ignore it until I had at least a little experience with it but it's not some random broken down second hand mattress or ultra-discount Walmart Special. On the other hand I'd started looking a year or more ago (and then put things on hold until now) and in the meantime a lot more information on the fiberglass problem in Zinus mattresses has come out so even if it is still being recommended I wouldn't buy one. The only mention of an old mattress with worn out springs was when I mentioned why I was looking at a new mattress!

[Blackhawk]

I wasn't directing the discussion only at your bed choices. I was speaking to the thread and the discussion as a whole.

[Kraken]

Saativa now says they'll deliver this Saturday, which is earlier than they predicted but still a solid 2 weeks after I ordered. Looking forward to it. I'm still sick and spending a lot of my afternoons in bed.

[Carpet_pissr]

HIGHLY recommend purchasing mattresses from a wholesale club (Sam’s specifically, though Costco also probably has similar stuff). They have brand names at great prices, with real reviews.

Mattresses have one of the highest margins in retail, so if there was ever a product where ‘you get what you pay for’ is not true, it’s this one.

[UsulofDoom]

Does any one use any heating or cooling pads and or blankets? One thing i'm missing from the water bed was slipping into a warm bed in the winter.

[gbasden]

Does any one use any heating or cooling pads and or blankets? One thing i'm missing from the water bed was slipping into a warm bed in the winter.

I love my heated mattress pad in winter. I preheat the bed an hour before I crawl in and it's wonderful.

[The Meal]

Does any one use any heating or cooling pads and or blankets? One thing i'm missing from the water bed was slipping into a warm bed in the winter.

I love my heated mattress pad in winter. I preheat the bed an hour before I crawl in and it's wonderful.

Yep. I grew up with electric blankets, but I actually prefer the heated mattress pad, now. Unexpectedly, you can better regulate heat (the pad doesn't really get warm without mass on top of it, such as a body or a comforter-weight blanket). Electric blankets suffer from getting holy shit this is dangerous levels of hot when folded over, which simply doesn't happen to a mattress pad.

[Kraken]

Based on one test nap, I'm going to love this new Saatva mattress. I hadn't realized just how broken-down my old Sealy was until I climbed onto the new one today and didn't roll to the center. Looking forward to bedtime tonight.

The delivery guys were amazingly efficient. I don't think they were even in the house for 5 minutes and they hauled those mattresses up and down the stairs with no apparent effort. I tipped 'em $20 because damn, they earned it.

[LordMortis]

Dunno but I'm interested in the results. I need a new mattress and box spring and I'm no mood to buy one. So, I'm hoping something comes out of this thread for when that time comes. I also was engaging the idea of Purple.

I think I've hit the point where it's time. Trying to figure things out isn't easy. I need to be on a budget but also don't want to be so cheap that I hate my mattress like I do now.

Ever notice that no two stores ever sell exactly the same mattress? There's no competition or price matching because each store gets a product with a slightly different appearance and name, even though the mattress itself is often identical.

Until today, I never had. It's not making life easy.

Right now I'm looking at Costco as the way to go but I have no idea. I can take my time on this unless I discover sale pricing on something that actually goes poof, as opposed to the sales trying to make me think this way but again it's difficult because there doesn't seem to be a system.

The price of Purple mattresses seems to have gone up dramatically, so they are backburnered for the moment. I see seely's as the price conscious way to go but again, don't want to go cheap if scaling up means that much.

Looking at the early "I love my Casper" has me thinking about them.