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Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:28 pm
by baelthazar
Anyone out there using VTTs for RPG playing? We have been using the free version of Roll20 and it... not great. I see a lot of people moving over the FoundryVTT but one of my players is worried about compatibility. That said, the system specs for Roll20 and Foundry seem identical.

Any other concerns? I know FoundryVTT requires either could hosting subscription or to run locally as a PC server. Thoughts?

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:06 pm
by Smoove_B
When I looked into this back in 2020, I came away with a Fantasy Grounds license so I'm probably not all that helpful.

I think Roll20 was good for basics and my recollection with Foundry was the initial price was cheaper (than Fantasy Grounds) but there were additional fees (subscriptions?) needed for D&D (what we were looking to play at the time).

I do think so much comes down to the game(s) you are going to be playing and what type of *stuff* you can get for that platform. I think both Roll20 and Foundry support more indie style games than Fantasy Grounds, but Fantasy Grounds is getting better.

As the guy running the show, the amount of automation behind-the-scenes help FGU provides has been fantastic. The UI is a beast to learn but eventually it starts to make sense in it's own special way. When I was messing around with Roll20 it didn't feel as...robust? I'm not sure if that's the right phrasing, but it's the first thing that came to mind.

I also don't have any idea how this OGL stuff is going to impact VTT gaming in any capacity.

Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:54 pm
by Zarathud
I ran Roll20 with Zoom for AV communications during the Pandemic. Worked well with teenagers who didn’t have the best equipment and couldn’t be reliable to install anything. Worked with 30 year olds who upgraded their accounts and bought me token packs.

I buy the upgraded account with ability to share my OGL rules during the session, the players just signed up with accounts. Easy for me as GM to run 2 games with slightly different rules.

The beginners did the Intro Pandelver set, the older group did Baldur’s Gate. I added a few side scenarios bought on my own.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:03 pm
by Zarathud
WOTC wants everyone to subscribe to their VTT so this is all at risk for D&D. I’m hearing subscription level pricing that’s unrealistic, so there’s no way I’m ever joining up. Roll20 is the right price and under my control of how much and how often to pay.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:17 am
by Redfive
Another FGU user here.

I have a smattering of experience with Roll20 but it was only for a few weeks and it was five years ago. I have run hundreds of sessions in FGU (and FG Classic before the upgrade). Both platforms have their pros and cons and as others have said, it pretty much comes down to personal preferences.

My group has had a few 5e sessions in Foundry VTT and in the last week, perhaps due to the shakeup with the OGL 1.1 fiasco, we have fallen hard into learning Pathfinder 2nd Edition. Foundry is very robust but unfortunately I can't speak on the ease of use as a DM because I have jumped into this most recent experience as a player.

I don't think you mentioned what systems you plan to play but Paizo themselves maintain the support for the PF2E module in Foundry and as such it has everything, and it all works.

Additionally, we have gone and added many quality of life mods and some amazing spell effect mods.

We will probably begin playing actual sessions in the next few days and I'll be happy to report back then.

Really looking forward to giving PF2E a try.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:39 am
by Blackhawk
Foundry is the cheapest and most powerful option. And a lot like Tabletop Simulator, most games are available for free (including most of D&D), while Foundry itself is a single purchase with no subscription. There are a few premium 'extras', but they're 'nice to have' things, not 'required to play' things. You can do things with Foundry you can't do with the others. However, you pay for that with the added complexity. Like any software, the more powerful it is and the more options that there are, the steeper the learning curve. With that said, you can learn to get it to Roll20 levels with remarkably little hassle. And for less complex systems it's even easier. You also need to host it yourself (which isn't too complicated), or pay for hosting like with any game server (I've heard The Forge is the go-to, and looks really cheap.)

Roll20 on the other hand has the advantage of a lot of official support. Everything is there, and everything is ready to go. The setup is, while not simple, easier than Foundry. On the other hand, you pay for that convenience. It's got that 'commercial software' feel where everything has a price, a subscription, or a microtransaction. If you have more money than time, or just want to run stuff out of the box, it's a good choice.

In either case, you're better off using Discord (or whatever) for the voice. It's just better.

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:06 pm I also don't have any idea how this OGL stuff is going to impact VTT gaming in any capacity.
According to what they've said most recently, they're walking that part of their SNAFU back, and it won't affect VTTs at all. Of course, nobody has actually seen their new agreement yet. Personally? I don't see myself getting invested in anything D&D for quite a while (save for maybe a few video games.) Just like Games Workshop, they've shown their true colors, even if they are trying to stuff them back in the bag.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:24 am
by Malificent
A couple of my Pathfinder 2 games are using Foundry and I like it quite a bit. We're running Adventure Paths and people have put together the work to build them in Foundry with atmospheric music, sound effects and more. Once I've spent some time in the interface, it works pretty well, at least from the player side.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:59 am
by Archinerd
In 2020 I started with some friends on Roll20, but we moved over to Fantasy Grounds Unity.
The "buy in" was worth it for my group, and has the right amount of automation, customization, and usability.
We play DCC.

I also agree with everything Smoove said above.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:54 pm
by baelthazar
Wow... this is a lot of great answers (sorry I didn't check until now, had a meh week). Unfortunately, I think you all muddied the waters rather than cleared them.

Fantasy Ground is interesting, but that $150 DM license is rough. My guys would probably pitch in, but still. And the demo leaves a LOT to be desired - I found it just as hard as Roll20 to fiddle with in terms of UI. That said, one of my players doesn't have the best hardware, so that is a consideration as well.

Foundry looks very snazzy. I wish they let you test out the DM options.

What really tweaks me is that the publishers are so spotty on supporting these VTTs. I mostly run D&D and Achtung Cthulhu (Modiphius Roll 20) but I am getting bored with AC (an no VTTs have it officially, Foundry has it fan-made) and want to branch out into some of the Free League (Fria Ligan) stuff like Forbidden Lands, Tales from the Loop, and Vaesen. Free League has a few of these on FGU, a few on Roll20, but most of their stuff on Foundry. So that makes Foundry a pretty attractive bet. I probably would go with The Forge for hosting, given the monthly cost is pretty low.

It is all a bit head spinning.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:29 pm
by El Guapo
Ok, so I've been hearing things here and there on this about some D&D calamity. From this, it sounds like WotC wants to charge everyone for their proprietary Virtual Table Top set up for playing D&D online? And presumably if you're playing D&D online through another program you're committing some violation in WotC's eyes?

Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:48 pm
by Zarathud
The cosplayer Ginny Di has a video that links to good explanations of the whole situation. Watch the interview with the business guy who negotiated the OGL, and there’s another video by a bearded hipster who has internal e-mail which explains that Hasbro’s business goal is to have fewer IP to manage that each bring in $1 billion annually. D&D brings in $150m annually so their goal is to scale up by selling VTT and micro transactions, which is the demented strategy of a former Zynga executive who thinks D&D is just WOW.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:40 am
by baelthazar
El Guapo wrote:Ok, so I've been hearing things here and there on this about some D&D calamity. From this, it sounds like WotC wants to charge everyone for their proprietary Virtual Table Top set up for playing D&D online? And presumably if you're playing D&D online through another program you're committing some violation in WotC's eyes?
That may be what they want, but lawyers are saying enforcing that retroactively (e.g. revoking agreements with Roll20 and others) is going to be highly problematic. And they can’t do anything to consumers who want to pop stuff into other platforms individually (it’s the same idea of FCC enforcement of screening a movie at your house).

Even more, the backlash is going to be severe as they move towards that path. Speaking of path - Pathfinder is capitalizing on all this by pointing out that Paizo is very open to sharing materials in all three major VTTs.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:07 am
by Smoove_B
I think the core issue (and to address the question more directly) - no one knows what's going to happen because there hasn't been a single case that has been taken to court. Lots of people are theorizing on what might happen but until WotC actually tries to sue someone over "OGL violations", it's all a mystery as to what they can and can't actually do or require or prohibit.

Above and beyond the OGL, I could see WotC pricing out licensing agreements to Roll20, Foundry, FGU, etc... to make D&D content cost prohibitive - indirectly forcing people to use whatever online VTT system they're currently working on behind the scenes. That's what's so crazy about all this - with just some leaked paperwork, they've potentially undermined their entire position in the PnP RPG world, forcing creators and publishers to come up with a way to remove anything OGL for fear of potential issues down the road.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:15 pm
by baelthazar
They would still have to deal with the fact that thousands of people already owned licensed material on Roll20 (and others). Revoking those licenses would be legally, socially, and fiscally problematic.

Back to the topic of this thread. I went ahead and got Foundry VTT to try. Currently, I am seeing if my player with the most PC issues can link up through Port Forwarding. If he can run it, then I am probably golden. In just the ten minutes of me messing with the GM interface, I am liking it a whole lot better than Roll20.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:12 pm
by Zarathud
The D&D rules (SRD5.1) are now under creative commons and Hasbro backed off any changes to the OGL 1.0a.

D&D Shorts explanation

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:15 pm
by Smoove_B
baelthazar wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:15 pm Back to the topic of this thread. I went ahead and got Foundry VTT to try. Currently, I am seeing if my player with the most PC issues can link up through Port Forwarding. If he can run it, then I am probably golden. In just the ten minutes of me messing with the GM interface, I am liking it a whole lot better than Roll20.
Now that you've mentioned it, I do think that was something I remember reading about as an issue (connection issues), but I guess if it works out and you're happy with the way it works that's all that matters. I'd still recommend you check out Fantasy Grounds too. They have weekly or monthly open gaming sessions where you can just join as a rando and play various systems with a "professional" game master. I think I'm too entrenched in FGU at this point to look elsewhere, but if I'm forced to because of lack of support for a specific system that would really suck.

Re: Roll20 vs. Foundry VTT

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:55 pm
by baelthazar
We were able to direct connect with Foundry. So far, so good!