This gets into the question of what exactly they want, I suppose. McCarthy's already giving extreme concessions, which they're not currently accepting. I think part of the reason is that they want to show to their supporters that they "fight". If the result is someone other than McCarthy, regardless of who it is, they can sell it to their base as better and that they fought the establishment and won.Defiant wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:21 pmWill they get the same concessions if they get Scalise, though?El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:05 pm
Honestly I doubt it - I don't think the ongoing embarrassment is an issue for the rebels in their districts at all. My current guess is that McCarthy withdraws eventually and Scalise gets elected, and the rebels declare victory. Though who knows if the rebels will be satisfied with Scalise.
2023 Republican House Follies
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
- El Guapo
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Black Lives Matter.
- geezer
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
I thought Tuesday that the Dems had a great opportunity to extract some concessions and get a "best case" outcome. But as this goes on, I'm realizing that the Dems calculation is that the chaos here - and the resulting chaos that going to be incessant over the next two years - is more beneficial to them than actually having a good governing coalition would be, and I find that seriously annoying. It's the same cynical calculation that cause Dems to support the most radical Trumpers in the R primaries. And yeah, that mostly worked out, but it's an ugly, ugly way to run a legislative body.Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:30 pm One interesting take I saw (which could never happen because dysfunction) is that those holding this shit show up go to McCarthy and pledge that one more will vote present with each ballot until the Ds win by default.
Would end this quickly but if neither side blinks, the risk to them both is too high.
- Smoove_B
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
None of this - not one single element - is on the Democrats. They have no reason at all to intervene and would arguably only end up worse off by trying to "negotiate" with anyone in the GOP during any of this. It's not annoying; it's the best play. The GOP is demonstrating they can't even negotiate with one another. You think they're going to hold up any type of agreement with their sworn enemies?
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- gbasden
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
The problem, though, is trusting the Republicans to hold up a bargain. As we were just discussing above, who are the moderates that will work with the Democrats in good faith?geezer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:59 pmI thought Tuesday that the Dems had a great opportunity to extract some concessions and get a "best case" outcome. But as this goes on, I'm realizing that the Dems calculation is that the chaos here - and the resulting chaos that going to be incessant over the next two years - is more beneficial to them than actually having a good governing coalition would be, and I find that seriously annoying. It's the same cynical calculation that cause Dems to support the most radical Trumpers in the R primaries. And yeah, that mostly worked out, but it's an ugly, ugly way to run a legislative body.Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:30 pm One interesting take I saw (which could never happen because dysfunction) is that those holding this shit show up go to McCarthy and pledge that one more will vote present with each ballot until the Ds win by default.
Would end this quickly but if neither side blinks, the risk to them both is too high.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
It's not on them, but it *is* in their best interest to have a functional House. The way things are going, the debt ceiling will be a nightmare, and so will any crisis that needs quick legislative action (like, say, a pandemic or an economic meltdown)
- Smoove_B
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
You're assuming there's an intention for the GOP controlled House to promulgate responsible, appropriate legislation at any point over the next two years. Make no mistake, when they finally appoint their Speaker minion, it's going to make the Benghazi investigations look like a walk in the park.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
This is similar to the 'moderate GOP' thing. There will not be a functional House. That option is not on the table, so it should not be included in any D calculations.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Smoove gets me.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Seriously. Their only mission once they elect a Speaker will be to obstruct anything the Democrats want to do and go on the attack against Biden. They have no intention on operating in good faith; they're on a 2020 revenge tour and doing everything they can to help bend 2024 in their favor.
I mean, they said they were gonna. What we're witnessing now is their internal argument over who is pure enough to head the purge they're all fantasizing about.
I mean, they said they were gonna. What we're witnessing now is their internal argument over who is pure enough to head the purge they're all fantasizing about.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
There are whispers of a deal going around. Like the other deals which netted...zero votes for McCarthy. McCarthy doesn't have the votes to get his nuts out of a vice much less move the needle towards changing outcomes.
Edit: I just saw broad details of the deal. (Trying to find a good source to post it). If it pans out it is pretty bad for the nation. McCarthy would complete capitulate and the rebels would be effectively in leadership and at the table for everything. It'd be a disaster. We knew McCarthy was a weak spined appeaser but you have to wonder if the details are leaking because other members won't go along with it.
Edit 2: Can't find a good source - it's all rumor mill but it'd involve committee assignments, rules changes, a seat at the high table for the Freedom Caucus and strategic planning. It'd be like inviting the Tea Party straight into party leadership back in 2011.
Edit: I just saw broad details of the deal. (Trying to find a good source to post it). If it pans out it is pretty bad for the nation. McCarthy would complete capitulate and the rebels would be effectively in leadership and at the table for everything. It'd be a disaster. We knew McCarthy was a weak spined appeaser but you have to wonder if the details are leaking because other members won't go along with it.
Edit 2: Can't find a good source - it's all rumor mill but it'd involve committee assignments, rules changes, a seat at the high table for the Freedom Caucus and strategic planning. It'd be like inviting the Tea Party straight into party leadership back in 2011.
Last edited by malchior on Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
This is the part people keep missing. We are getting a sense of how many folks are willing to break things no matter what they're offered. And what I suspect is that they'll be rewarded for this in the base. The tough part is figuring out if they are smart playing dumb or reckless fools or some mix.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
That plan had no chance of working, and they were apparently savvy enough to realize it.geezer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:59 pmI thought Tuesday that the Dems had a great opportunity to extract some concessions and get a "best case" outcome. But as this goes on, I'm realizing that the Dems calculation is that the chaos here - and the resulting chaos that going to be incessant over the next two years - is more beneficial to them than actually having a good governing coalition would be, and I find that seriously annoying. It's the same cynical calculation that cause Dems to support the most radical Trumpers in the R primaries. And yeah, that mostly worked out, but it's an ugly, ugly way to run a legislative body.Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:30 pm One interesting take I saw (which could never happen because dysfunction) is that those holding this shit show up go to McCarthy and pledge that one more will vote present with each ballot until the Ds win by default.
Would end this quickly but if neither side blinks, the risk to them both is too high.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Not mine but good...
Republicans finally found an election they can re-do over and over. And they still can't win.
Republicans finally found an election they can re-do over and over. And they still can't win.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
That's probably true. Shame on me,I guess, for thinking anyone elected by a GOP house district is actually interested in governing.Alefroth wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:37 pmThat plan had no chance of working, and they were apparently savvy enough to realize it.geezer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:59 pmI thought Tuesday that the Dems had a great opportunity to extract some concessions and get a "best case" outcome. But as this goes on, I'm realizing that the Dems calculation is that the chaos here - and the resulting chaos that going to be incessant over the next two years - is more beneficial to them than actually having a good governing coalition would be, and I find that seriously annoying. It's the same cynical calculation that cause Dems to support the most radical Trumpers in the R primaries. And yeah, that mostly worked out, but it's an ugly, ugly way to run a legislative body.Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:30 pm One interesting take I saw (which could never happen because dysfunction) is that those holding this shit show up go to McCarthy and pledge that one more will vote present with each ballot until the Ds win by default.
Would end this quickly but if neither side blinks, the risk to them both is too high.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
If only things were so simple . . .
Actually, they are that simple, but our fucked up political tribalism won't permit it.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2023/01/ ... p9gNCcQPGI
Moderately conservative Republican Jason Stephens, with the help of the Democratic Party, snatched the coveted Ohio House Speaker job Tuesday from a far-right lawmaker who was already elected speaker in a non-official party vote.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
I was just going to post this. The Democrats in Ohio did the smart thing and voted for a moderate Republican they can work with rather than a hard right MAGAT. The moderate had no shot at winning without the Democratic votes. In the end a bunch of Republicans and Democrats decided to put the state above politics. This is rare in the Ohio House these days.Alefroth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:33 am https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2023/01/ ... p9gNCcQPGI
Moderately conservative Republican Jason Stephens, with the help of the Democratic Party, snatched the coveted Ohio House Speaker job Tuesday from a far-right lawmaker who was already elected speaker in a non-official party vote.
FTE
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
That's the exact sort of example we need set. I suspect many "operators" will be keeping their ear to the ground to see if the people who agreed get punished by the base.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Absolutely, but if your shared house is on fire and no one single thing you did contributed to the fire, do you watch it burn or do you try to put it out?
Is not trying to find resolution with a hostile counterpart helping to put it out? I honestly don't know. The GOP are the worst of venomous cannibalistic snakes and have been for a long time. Every interaction with them and their interests is dangerous for all involved.
That's what their base voted for them for. We have 5 - 20 members of the house who want to burn it down. Period. And x? more that are just in it for the grift and will throw on kerosene if they think they'll get paid.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Their best play is to continue to vote for Jeffries. They can offer McCarthy something (he can chair a committee?) if he'll get 6 GOP members to vote for Jeffries, along with a promise that the current 20 defectors will be held off all committees. To do that, however, McCarthy would have to hate the 20 more than he wants to be Speaker and I'm not sure he's there yet.LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:54 am Is not trying to find resolution with a hostile counterpart helping to put it out? I honestly don't know. The GOP are the worst of venomous cannibalistic snakes and have been for a long time. Every interaction with them and their interests is dangerous for all involved.
But the House Democrats voting for any GOP member to be Speaker? Nope. They have absolutely nothing to gain from it. They've offered up a solution (plurality). McCarthy can either bail on the GOP and try to work towards that solution or continue to slam his testicles in a desk drawer with his current party. Working with the Democrats is now in McCarthy's best interests - he can extract concessions from them in exchange for 5+ GOP votes. I'd imagine he'd get more with them than the 20 GOP lunatics that are going to continue to hold this up. But of course he won't work with the Democrats or try to convince 5+ GOP members to vote for Jeffries because that's not how the GOP purity snake pit works.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
The Democrats should do absolutely nothing to help McCarthy becomes Speaker - McCarthy obviously hasn't earned it, and Democrats gain nothing from helping him.Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:14 amTheir best play is to continue to vote for Jeffries. They can offer McCarthy something (he can chair a committee?) if he'll get 6 GOP members to vote for Jeffries, along with a promise that the current 20 defectors will be held off all committees. To do that, however, McCarthy would have to hate the 20 more than he wants to be Speaker and I'm not sure he's there yet.LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:54 am Is not trying to find resolution with a hostile counterpart helping to put it out? I honestly don't know. The GOP are the worst of venomous cannibalistic snakes and have been for a long time. Every interaction with them and their interests is dangerous for all involved.
But the House Democrats voting for any GOP member to be Speaker? Nope. They have absolutely nothing to gain from it. They've offered up a solution (plurality). McCarthy can either bail on the GOP and try to work towards that solution or continue to slam his testicles in a desk drawer with his current party. Working with the Democrats is now in McCarthy's best interests - he can extract concessions from them in exchange for 5+ GOP votes. I'd imagine he'd get more with them than the 20 GOP lunatics that are going to continue to hold this up. But of course he won't work with the Democrats or try to convince 5+ GOP members to vote for Jeffries because that's not how the GOP purity snake pit works.
They should be willing to folllow the PA / OH models and vote on a moderate / independent speaker. But I have no idea whether any such deal is viable. Is there a person that could get a couple dozen (at least) GOP votes + almost all Democratic votes? Also in terms of bringing in someone from outside the House, I'd be a little nervous about setting a precedent on a non-representative Speaker given the looming doom that is Speaker Trump.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Again, it’s magical thinking to propose this could or should end with Jeffries as Speaker. That’s never going to happen, and it makes little sense.
Only slightly less improbable, but making a tremendous amount of sense, is that the Dems move in unity to support the most palatable member of the current GOP House that they can find (purposefully avoiding the word “moderate” here to skip having that fight again ).
What about the two I proposed previously In this thread?
I honestly don’t know a ton about them, but both Bryan Fitzpatrick and Don Bacon seem to fit the bill.
Only slightly less improbable, but making a tremendous amount of sense, is that the Dems move in unity to support the most palatable member of the current GOP House that they can find (purposefully avoiding the word “moderate” here to skip having that fight again ).
What about the two I proposed previously In this thread?
I honestly don’t know a ton about them, but both Bryan Fitzpatrick and Don Bacon seem to fit the bill.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Fitzpatrick is the only House R who showed up to mark the 2nd anniversary of January 6.Kurth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:54 am Again, it’s magical thinking to propose this could or should end with Jeffries as Speaker. That’s never going to happen, and it makes little sense.
Only slightly less improbable, but making a tremendous amount of sense, is that the Dems move in unity to support the most palatable member of the current GOP House that they can find (purposefully avoiding the word “moderate” here to skip having that fight again ).
What about the two I proposed previously In this thread?
I honestly don’t know a ton about them, but both Bryan Fitzpatrick and Don Bacon seem to fit the bill.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Also, a thread I found interesting about the mutation of the Freedom Caucus:
Hodor.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Great. Then he's our man.pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:59 amFitzpatrick is the only House R who showed up to mark the 2nd anniversary of January 6.Kurth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:54 am Again, it’s magical thinking to propose this could or should end with Jeffries as Speaker. That’s never going to happen, and it makes little sense.
Only slightly less improbable, but making a tremendous amount of sense, is that the Dems move in unity to support the most palatable member of the current GOP House that they can find (purposefully avoiding the word “moderate” here to skip having that fight again ).
What about the two I proposed previously In this thread?
I honestly don’t know a ton about them, but both Bryan Fitzpatrick and Don Bacon seem to fit the bill.
- El Guapo
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Is he willing to do it? As discussed, it's almost a given that he'd face a heavily supported primary challenge if he did. He'd probably need to be comfortable leaving office (or at least, be confident that he could win that) next year.geezer wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:02 pmGreat. Then he's our man.pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:59 amFitzpatrick is the only House R who showed up to mark the 2nd anniversary of January 6.Kurth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:54 am Again, it’s magical thinking to propose this could or should end with Jeffries as Speaker. That’s never going to happen, and it makes little sense.
Only slightly less improbable, but making a tremendous amount of sense, is that the Dems move in unity to support the most palatable member of the current GOP House that they can find (purposefully avoiding the word “moderate” here to skip having that fight again ).
What about the two I proposed previously In this thread?
I honestly don’t know a ton about them, but both Bryan Fitzpatrick and Don Bacon seem to fit the bill.
How many votes would he get? Probably he would have to give some chairman or other leadership positions to Democrats to get their votes. How many Republicans would go along with that? How many Democrats would he lose either because they're not willing to vote for any Republican or because their dissatisfied with their share of power under the deal?
I'm fine with the concept, but I don't think we have any real idea about how viable it is.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
It's probably a dead end. It isn't about the word choice. There are almost no palatable members and none that are suitable to be Speaker.Kurth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:54 am Again, it’s magical thinking to propose this could or should end with Jeffries as Speaker. That’s never going to happen, and it makes little sense.
Only slightly less improbable, but making a tremendous amount of sense, is that the Dems move in unity to support the most palatable member of the current GOP House that they can find (purposefully avoiding the word “moderate” here to skip having that fight again ).
What about the two I proposed previously In this thread?
There were some other moderates until November. They're generally all gone. The gap between the Democratic party is a gulf on a variety of issues that are impossible for almost all of the Democratic caucus. It isn't a couple of sticking points that they could agree to disagree on. Just to put it in perspective the most rebellious Democrats voted with the Biden agenda ~90%. Kim is around ~30%. Bacon is ~40%. Without a deep dive it's more of a back of the napkin guess but I'd suspect big rocks that'd prevent comity.
I happened to find Fitzpatrick today looking for the moderates. He does appear to be the (lone) outlier. He voted with the Biden agenda ~70% of the time. His district has shifted heavily towards the Democrats and he is just trying to keep above water. If it shifts more or he takes a hard challenge from the right I could see him going I or D in the next few years. The biggest problem and fatal problem here is he has only 3 years in Congress.I honestly don’t know a ton about them, but both Bryan Fitzpatrick and Don Bacon seem to fit the bill.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
I think eventually McCarthy will agree to let Boebert act as Speaker as long as the Freedom Caucus agrees to put a cardboard cut out of McCarthy in the speaker's office and agrees to give McCarthy business cards that identify him as Speaker of the House.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Did you ever think you would talk about the good old days of Paul Ryan?
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Look, here's the thing. Even if Fitzpatrick is a no-go for the GOP, Bacon is with Biden 40% of the time. That sucks, but the reality is that the Ds don't hold the House. They just don't, and they need to understand that they can hold the line and get what is essentially zero say in what comes out of the House, or they can hold their noses and get *something,* which is critically important, IMHO, because they still hold the White House and the Senate. If they didn't - if the Senate and/or Oval are where D dreams went to die, then sure - stand your ground, let the R train wreck show what morons they are and hope for a better outcome in 2024. But there's a real opportunity here for two more years of some progress. Take it.malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:20 pmIt's probably a dead end. It isn't about the word choice. There are almost no palatable members and none that are suitable to be Speaker.Kurth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:54 am Again, it’s magical thinking to propose this could or should end with Jeffries as Speaker. That’s never going to happen, and it makes little sense.
Only slightly less improbable, but making a tremendous amount of sense, is that the Dems move in unity to support the most palatable member of the current GOP House that they can find (purposefully avoiding the word “moderate” here to skip having that fight again ).
What about the two I proposed previously In this thread?
There were some other moderates until November. They're generally all gone. The gap between the Democratic party is a gulf on a variety of issues that are impossible for almost all of the Democratic caucus. It isn't a couple of sticking points that they could agree to disagree on. Just to put it in perspective the most rebellious Democrats voted with the Biden agenda ~90%. Kim is around ~30%. Bacon is ~40%. Without a deep dive it's more of a back of the napkin guess but I'd suspect big rocks that'd prevent comity.
I happened to find Fitzpatrick today looking for the moderates. He does appear to be the (lone) outlier. He voted with the Biden agenda ~70% of the time. His district has shifted heavily towards the Democrats and he is just trying to keep above water. If it shifts more or he takes a hard challenge from the right I could see him going I or D in the next few years. The biggest problem and fatal problem here is he has only 3 years in Congress.I honestly don’t know a ton about them, but both Bryan Fitzpatrick and Don Bacon seem to fit the bill.
Last edited by geezer on Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
And I get that the practicalities are rough, as you note. It's just what any sensible people interested in the good of the country ought to do. (LULZ)El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:11 pmIs he willing to do it? As discussed, it's almost a given that he'd face a heavily supported primary challenge if he did. He'd probably need to be comfortable leaving office (or at least, be confident that he could win that) next year.geezer wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:02 pmGreat. Then he's our man.pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:59 amFitzpatrick is the only House R who showed up to mark the 2nd anniversary of January 6.Kurth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:54 am Again, it’s magical thinking to propose this could or should end with Jeffries as Speaker. That’s never going to happen, and it makes little sense.
Only slightly less improbable, but making a tremendous amount of sense, is that the Dems move in unity to support the most palatable member of the current GOP House that they can find (purposefully avoiding the word “moderate” here to skip having that fight again ).
What about the two I proposed previously In this thread?
I honestly don’t know a ton about them, but both Bryan Fitzpatrick and Don Bacon seem to fit the bill.
How many votes would he get? Probably he would have to give some chairman or other leadership positions to Democrats to get their votes. How many Republicans would go along with that? How many Democrats would he lose either because they're not willing to vote for any Republican or because their dissatisfied with their share of power under the deal?
I'm fine with the concept, but I don't think we have any real idea about how viable it is.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
The reality is that the Republican votes show they don’t control the House either.
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"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
I do think Democrats should make more of a show of being willing to discuss supporting a moderate Republican or independent Speaker. It's good politics, regardless of whether there's any viable deal to be had.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Sure but this steps over that the caucus would have to go along with it. They are united behind Jeffries but it'd be a mistake to assume they would pivot even in large numbers to the most moderate GOP member. A Bacon might fracture them and bust up a deal. I also bake in that Jeffries knows the math here and chose this current course for a reason. And it wasn't to be a stick in the mud. Though he could be getting it wrong it seems logical that getting from Jeffries to Bacon or a Fitzpatrick is simply unbridgeable. It's a guess but I hazard that's a good guess.geezer wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:30 pmLook, here's the thing. Even if Fitzpatrick in a no go for the GOP, Bacon is with Biden 40% of the time. That sucks, but the reality is that the Ds don't hold the House. They just don't, and they need to understand that they can hold the line and get what is essentially zero say in what comes out of the House, or they can hold their noses and get *something,* which is critically important, IMHO, because they still hold the White House and the Senate.
The boil down that aside from a few 'Problem solver' types on both sides there is no middle that could unite. The American people aren't there either. This fight in a sense mirrors the polarization out in the electorate.
There is an opportunity but this isn't the path in my estimation. At least not yet, the best choice if they went this route is Upton. He has the experience and comfortably lived in center but that still feels very unlikely, unprecedented, and far off.If they didn't - if the Senate and/or Oval are where D dreams went to die, then sure - stand your ground, let the R train wreck show what morons the are and hope for a better outcome in 2024. But there's a real opportunity here for two more years of some progress. Take it.
Last edited by malchior on Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Eh, IMO you don't discuss anything for optics unless you know it's impossible (which this verges on) or you have even a chance of pulling it off. If you get called on it and you don't deliver you look like clowns. Still even if you go there it's a high risk choice. You would have to get a great return to take it.
- Pyperkub
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Today, every Democrat should be making motions to strike votes of those who voted against Impeachment for Jan 6th, campaigned on stop the steal, or impeded the Jan 6th Committee.
At the least, those who asked for Pardons for Jan 6th.
Cheney and Kinzinger should also be all over the airwaves calling them out.
At the least, those who asked for Pardons for Jan 6th.
Cheney and Kinzinger should also be all over the airwaves calling them out.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
There is no House to make motions in.
In other news, the first nomination speech of 1/6 for McCarthy was delivered by Mike Garcia who voted to not certify the election on 1/6. A huge fuck you to the American people. It also included racist and hateful remarks about China, about the character of Democrats (a comment about proxy voting), and people expect the Democrats to treat with these people?
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Wow Gaetz is hanging out some laundry right now. I still don't think McCarthy ever wins this without trickery or a math mistake or something stupid.
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
McCarthy flipped some votes. Action! Drama! But still McCarthy goes down. 12th vote fails for McCarthy...again. Steve Karnacki just indicated 3 GOP members are absent so McCarthy can't lose more than 3 instead of the usual 4.
Edit: Gosar flipped. That was the first legitimate surprise. The deal talk was largely non-core rebels. Gosar felt like a core rebel.
Edit: Gosar flipped. That was the first legitimate surprise. The deal talk was largely non-core rebels. Gosar felt like a core rebel.
- Pyperkub
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Re: 2023 Republican House Follies
Reminder that these are the ones who asked for Pardons related to Jan 6th, in Testimony under Oath:
Mo Brooks of Alabama, Matt Gaetz of Florida, Andy Biggs of Arizona, Louie Gohmert of Texas, Scott Perry of Pennsylvania and Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia.
Mo Brooks of Alabama, Matt Gaetz of Florida, Andy Biggs of Arizona, Louie Gohmert of Texas, Scott Perry of Pennsylvania and Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.