Octopus Overlords

Given there's going to be a reprint in October or November and that hepcat is the current SME on the game and I don't want his posts buried in the general solo gaming thread, I figured I should post this



It's long (probably should be 4+ separate videos imho), but it's very detailed and clear. I spent the other night punching and sorting everything and I'm reading through the basic rule book first. From what I understand the system's early genesis came from a love of AD&D, so it does feel faintly familiar.

I’ve got about 4 games under my belt. All using the Artificial Dark Player (ADP) for solo and one coop game, so I’m fairly comfortable with the rules (with the exception of leader skills when they’re encountered). If anyone has any questions, let me know.

I’m taking a break from it this weekend (I had the urge to play some solo Pax Pamir over a few lemon shandys after work today), but I still love it. It is crunchy and dense, and you’ll play about 3 or 4 games before you realize you’re finally remembering almost everything. But it is old school fun that brings back many memories of high school nights playing D&D with the gang.

I highly recommend grabbing the bestiary cards for anyone getting it new, or if you have it now and get frustrated with digging through the bestiary manual for enemy stats. There’s a fan made online bestiary but it appears to be using the old rules set/enemy collection.

P.S. Smoove, ignore the basic rulebook. It’s considered more harm than help as it actually breaks some rules for the sake of simplicity that you’ll need once you move to the full rulebook. It’s also not THAT much shorter than the full rulebook anyway. Just put it back in the box and forget about it. Go straight to the full rulebook. Trust me.

P.S.S. This game makes shields important and vital. I no longer view them as a cosmetic addition with limited use in a game. If you’re going fighter, grab one.

P.S.S.S. There’s an online app that allows for online play. We should get some folks together and try it sometime.

<off topic>
Wouldn't it be P.S. > P.P.S > P.P.P.S?
</off topic>

Just caught my eye for some reason.

On topic, it's cooperative, right? If so, then I'd be willing to play as long as I don't also have to have the game.

TheMix wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:18 pm <off topic>
Wouldn't it be P.S. > P.P.S > P.P.P.S?
</off topic>

Just caught my eye for some reason.

I always forget how that goes. If you look at the few other places I’ve used that you’ll find the same mistake.

TheMix wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:19 pm On topic, it's cooperative, right? If so, then I'd be willing to play as long as I don't also have to have the game.

It is. And as long as other people own the game, you should be okay. I’ll wait until smoove and others have gotten their feet wet with it then maybe we’ll set something up.

Shields are awesome, as long as you keep rolling blocks. Combat hurts if you are squishy and don’t roll high.

And if you block against a larger enemy or try to block a spell, you run a high chance of breaking that shield. I like that they’re powerful, but balanced with the fact that they can fail you when you need them most.

Seppe’s dwarf laughing off a defensive shot and swatting it aside with his shield while charging a crossbow user was great in our game last Saturday.

hepcat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:44 pm P.S. Smoove, ignore the basic rulebook. It’s considered more harm than help as it actually breaks some rules for the sake of simplicity that you’ll need once you move to the full rulebook. It’s also not THAT much shorter than the full rulebook anyway. Just put it back in the box and forget about it. Go straight to the full rulebook. Trust me.

Interesting. That would not have been my natural inclination. Ever. Noted and I'll switch immediately (I'm not that far in anyway).

Storage question - I did a quick jamming of the standees in the provided storage tray - the long troughs. This seems...problematic. Would it be better to group them and bag them? I like bags but the amount of *stuff* this game comes with is pretty crazy.

I sorted them by size (small, medium and large) then organized them by number. I then created little paper dividers with “1 - 10” “11 - 20” and so on, and grouped them by 10s. But bagging by faction (when possible) seems to be the preferred way on BGG.

I’ve been scavenging minis from altar quest, sword and sorcery and journeys in middle earth, as well as some minis I picked up recently for DUN, and haven’t needed to use the standees yet.

Interesting. Ok. I have mountains of gray plastic; not sure I want to go down that path but I'll consider it. Definitely need to research a bit more on storage. Also, the official rule book feels like 2x the weight of the beginning rule book.

It’s the extra stuff like playing a campaign, creating characters and how to run the ADP. Stuff you’d have to read up on anyway before actually playing. The basic rulebook was a bad idea, in most folks opinions.. It even has different movement rules (no diagonal movement) in an attempt to dumb down adjacency rules. If you want the full experience of DUN at some point, you essentially have to UNlearn the basic rules.

If you start the campaign, the first scenario is just basic combat to get you into the swing of things. The second scenario adds in the ADP (if playing solo/coop).

Been slowly reading through the regular rule book and I'm astounded at how much it really feels like someone took D&D and somehow translated it into a board game. It's also reminding me a bit of Descent 2, but deeper and more intuitive. Maybe it's just the actual system governing game play - character stats, classes, equipment, etc...

I guess for other games I've played they seem to go out of their way to make things complicated or use different language to differentiate themselves from D&D (maybe they're afraid of being sued?). This feels like they're more comfortable being adjacent. I dunno. Maybe I'm making it up, but for a rule book that is so large, I'm not finding it difficult to absorb - which is unusual.

Many of the mechanics just make sense. I’ve always struggled with games that add mechanics that are just there for balancing or what not, but in practice make no sense/are just fiddly. The majority of the rules in DUN work like you would think they should work.

Charging someone with a ranged weapon? They get a defensive shot that will stop you if it hits. Trying to fight someone in melee when you have a bow? You’re basically fighting unarmed. Moving and firing a bow on the same turn? Slight penalty to your hit chance. If you’re strong, of course you’re going to do more damage with a sword than someone weaker than you.

It all just makes sense when playing.

The only thing they do for balancing I find a bit annoying (even if I understand why they do it) is that you can’t loot weapons off defeated enemies. I understand you’d be able to break the economy in the game, but it still feels oddly unrealistic in a game that seems to pride itself on its realism.

New kickstarter is up, if anyone's interested.

Looks like they've split off the standees and map tiles and brought the price down. You can then add on the standees and tiles for a bit more, or just print out maps (they make them available online) or whatever, and use proxy miniatures (which is what I do most of the time).

Wow, they really did their homework for the backing levels - very smart in how they are breaking it up. This might also be the first KS I've seen that offers STLs as an add on in addition to just being able to buy the minis directly.

yeah, i just updated my post after seeing what they did. It's now available at a price point most folks can find comfortable. I'm grabbing the new challenge expansion, along with the new tiles and standees most likely. I also like that they're including the bestiary cards now in many of the pledge levels. I can't stress how helpful those are.

Also, I read about someone playing this game in a way I didn't even think of doing. He's treating it like a true sandbox. He just started somewhere and then his party just wanders around until they pick up quests. I'm thinking of starting a new party and trying that with the quests/campaigns from book II.

edit: i'm diggin' the new additions to the game: resources and crafting, bulletin boards for quests, weather...it's really becoming a full fledged RPG.

Wellllll.... sh......ippppp....

So I made the mistake(?) of clicking the link. And then starting one of the videos.

But... I'm still a bit confused on all the offerings.

So... if I acknowledge that:
1) collecting games is my only real vice (and really the only thing I spend any $ on outside of computer hardware and games)
2) I've been good and haven't backed anything since ISS Vanguard
3) I only have have one outstanding game (previously mentioned ISS Vanguard)
4) if I'm honest, money really isn't an issue (since you can't take it with you)

What would I want/need for this game?
It sounds like the miniatures aren't necessary (and may even be a pain to deal with). But for someone that doesn't want to print anything out, I'd want the standees and the tiles at a minimum, right? And per hep, the bestiary cards and the playmats. It seems like going the piecemeal route is probably not worth it. Is this a "go big or go home" scenario?

I'm not a fan of them pulling the bestiary II book into the encounters add on because as far as I know, that one is intended for people wanting to create their own adventures. i.e. that bestiary isn't necessary for any of the campaign books/quests. However, I need to verify that is the case for campaign book III (i have 1 and 2).

I would just go for the core game and then when the pledge manager releases, add the tiles, the standees (if you want to have them as a backup if you can't find the miniature you want anywhere in your collection) and the bestiary cards.

If you want more, then add the 95 dollar level for the new expansion with its tiles and standees.

Or, if you feel comfortable with just printing them out on paper, just get the pdfs for the tiles.

There's numerous approaches and it really comes down to how much you want. The core game has close to 200 hundred hours of gameplay in it alone.

F.O.M.O., right?

The expansion was something I was trying to sort out.

It sounds like you are saying that neither of the two larger pledges are optimal because they both include stuff that isn't really necessary? So instead use the pledge manager to make a custom pledge?

Something like?
- Core
- Tile set I
- Tile set II (Is the second tile set only necessary if one also gets the second campaign book? - Which probably means the second set of standees also isn't necessary.)
- Bestiary cards
- Standees
- Playmats

Am I understanding correctly that a lot of it boils down to Campaign 1 stuff (tiles, standees, miniatures, books, etc) vs. Campaign 2 stuff? And you are suggesting just focusing on getting Campaign 1 stuff only?

I think the larger pledges are overkill, to be honest. I'd just go with a core, and the Standees I and Tiles I. Then add on the bestiary cards when the pledge manager opens up. That will get you everything you really need to start off.

I didn't realize they'd split out the playmats. That's kind of crappy. But it looks like they're making them in neoprene now instead of the heavy paper they previously were made out of. That may be worth adding. But totally not necessary. I may grab them too.

If you wanted to get the new stuff for the crafting, bulletin board for quests, etc.., then the New Challenges with Tile Set II and Standees II would pretty much get you everything.

The miniatures and encounter add ons I'd just avoid.

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:46 pm I think the larger pledges are overkill, to be honest. I'd just go with a core, and the Standees I and Tiles I. Then add on the bestiary cards when the pledge manager opens up. That will get you everything you really need to start off.

I didn't realize they'd split out the playmats. That's kind of crappy. But it looks like they're making them in neoprene now instead of the heavy paper they previously were made out of. That may be worth adding. But totally not necessary. I may grab them too.

If you wanted to get the new stuff for the crafting, bulletin board for quests, etc.., then the New Challenges with Tile Set II and Standees II would pretty much get you everything.

The miniatures and encounter add ons I'd just avoid.

Thanks. Also... "But totally not necessary"... It's like I don't even know you!

My issue with the playmats are that they're huge. I have a party of 3 in my evil campaign and those playmats just dominate the table. I've been thinking about creating a smaller version for my games.

hepcat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:42 pmThe only thing they do for balancing I find a bit annoying (even if I understand why they do it) is that you can’t loot weapons off defeated enemies. I understand you’d be able to break the economy in the game, but it still feels oddly unrealistic in a game that seems to pride itself on its realism.

Just in case you missed it, on page 24 it says if you are unarmed and your teammates don’t have any spare weapons, you can automatically succeed at looting the weapon of the last enemy you killed. It lets you sort of realistically rearm yourself with what’s available, but as you said you still unrealistically cannot sell the looted weapon.

Ah, interesting. I didn’t catch that. Nice, thanks!

Just found a much shorter overview (it's from like ~8 months ago) for those still on the fence with the latest KS or looking for guidance on how to get started.

Wow, that’s a very good, succinct overview of the game. Nice find.

They just added a new pledge level for folks getting confused by his a la carte options. You can now pledge for DUN Classic, which gives you essentially the same stuff as the core box from the last kickstarter, which is what I got. Then you can add the bestiary cards and be done.

Or you can continue on with the New Encounters expansion, which gives you the new cards, bestiary cards, etc.. But it gets even pricier after that.