[Paramount+] Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Aug 09, 2023 2:13 pm

The last episode was good, if a little over the top. But man, worth it all just for...

Spoiler:

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:55 pm

I found this season to be disappointing, overall. It promised classic Star Trek episodes, but gave me mostly soap operas and gimmicks. Stop trying to shove your version of Kirk down my throat, and enough with the constant love triangles/doomed loves. I enjoyed Discovery’s last few seasons more than this.

I hope they get back on track next season.

Montag · Post by **Montag** » Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:51 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:55 pm I found this season to be disappointing, overall. It promised classic Star Trek episodes, but gave me mostly soap operas and gimmicks. Stop trying to shove your version of Kirk down my throat, and enough with the constant love triangles/doomed loves. I enjoyed Discovery’s last few seasons more than this.

I hope they get back on track next season.

unsubscribe

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:39 pm

Late to the party as usual...I've just started watching this and I must say I am really enjoying pretty much everything about this show.

That's all.

Just felt like contributing.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Aug 11, 2023 8:38 pm

Montag wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:51 pm
hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:55 pm I found this season to be disappointing, overall. It promised classic Star Trek episodes, but gave me mostly soap operas and gimmicks. Stop trying to shove your version of Kirk down my throat, and enough with the constant love triangles/doomed loves. I enjoyed Discovery’s last few seasons more than this.

I hope they get back on track next season.
unsubscribe

You tried that during my Holiday Newsletter dedicated to my self published fan fiction featuring a slave boy named Hepcaticus and a Roman empress, BeaArthacis. Didn’t work then, bub.

To be fair, I may be overly harsh. But only because I (mostly) love the casting, the attention to historical detail for old time fans, and the lack of any convoluted story arc to get in the way.

But for every good episode this season, it just felt like there was two featuring One Life to Live romance stories with Chapel and Spock (or Kirk and the security officer who annoys me), or some gimmick (the song and dance episode….although I will admit the songs were much catchier than I expected).

I criticize because I care. When the show hits, it hits hard. I just want that more.

Caveat: the opinions expressed here are my own and not reflective of any other Hepcorp employees.

Montag · Post by **Montag** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:30 pm

I will give you credit for an excellent response to my one word comment.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:41 pm

Sooooo…..subscribe?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:02 pm

Prescribe.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 10:47 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:55 pm I found this season to be disappointing, overall. It promised classic Star Trek episodes, but gave me mostly soap operas and gimmicks. Stop trying to shove your version of Kirk down my throat, and enough with the constant love triangles/doomed loves. I enjoyed Discovery’s last few seasons more than this.

I hope they get back on track next season.

I really enjoyed this season. But I expected such a misinformed opinion from one who's white and black halves of their face are on the wrong side...

Spoiler:

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:25 pm

Understood....AND OFFENDED!

Right White Unite!

edit: That...uh....really doesn't work without context.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:50 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:25 pm Understood....AND OFFENDED!

Right White Unite!

edit: That...uh....really doesn't work without context.

Yeah, that's why I put in some background in a spoiler, just in case.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:06 am

I zipped through S1 and then learned about the crossover with Lower Decks, so I switched gears to watch that entire series (which I really liked), and now back to S2 of Strange New Worlds.

Last night I watched the crossover episode and it was easily one of the most enjoyable ~50 minutes of TV I've experienced in years.

Between these two shows I'm not sure I can claim to be a casual fan of Star Trek any longer. I'm sure quite a few of the connections to older shows are still going over my head, but I am picking up on more references than I thought I would.

Anyway, being pleasantly surprised, I figured I'd share.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:12 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:06 am I'm sure quite a few of the connections to older shows are still going over my head, but I am picking up on more references than I thought I would.

They guy with the pointy ears? Yeah, he's in some of the others.

The first officer with the black hair and the blonde nurse are the same person. She's still around in TNG as one of the character's mothers, and in several shows as a talking spaceship.

Pike winds up in a wheelchair with a blinking disorder, and ends up getting hooked on VR.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:14 am

I was firmly against Lower Decks after the first episode. But then I went back and gave it a shot and it clicked with me. I think I just had to get past my initial bias against an "adult cartoon" version of Star Trek. But after letting that go (and some prodding from Siljanus), I was able to see it for what it is: a loving tribute to the long history of Star Trek that's also forging its own path at the same time.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:20 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:12 am the blonde nurse

I'm such a non-fan I really had no idea about her character in the original series. I did know she was the voice of computers, but didn't realize the stuff they're doing with her character and Spock is building off the original show's roots.

Honestly, for me when things happen that I recognize or characters show up from other shows I'm on my couch like this

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:20 am

They nailed the appearances of most of the characters, but in regards to the 'new' character they introduced in the finale:

Spoiler:

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:31 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:20 am
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:12 am the blonde nurse
I'm such a non-fan I really had no idea about her character in the original series. I did know she was the voice of computers, but didn't realize the stuff they're doing with her character and Spock is building off the original show's roots.

Honestly, for me when things happen that I recognize or characters show up from other shows I'm on my couch like this

She was Number One in the pilot, Nurse Chapel in TOS, and Lwaxana Troi in TNG, plus the computer on every single show up until her death (six series, plus films.)

Also, she had an affair with Roddenberry (while he was also having an affair with Nichelle Nichols, and was trying to convince them that they should all play together...), then ended up marrying him.

As an aside, I just watched her a couple of days ago as a Centauri seeress in Babylon 5 - which has a huge number of Star Trek alums involved with it (somewhere close to 150 of them.)

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Sep 05, 2023 7:51 am

Just watched the musical episode. That was...something.

Is there anything other than a single episode of a TV show ("Once More With Feeling") that's had such a significant impact on modern television (22 years ago!)?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Sep 05, 2023 9:34 am

Fonzie jumping a shark on Happy Days?

In other news, regarding Nurse Chapel and Dr. M'Benga:

Spoiler:

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Sep 05, 2023 9:55 am

I just started a Star Trek chronological watch/rewatch of all the series starting with Enterprise. Really enjoying it so far. Strange New Worlds will be next up and I'm looking forward to it.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:00 pm

Well, I slowly watched SNW over the past few weeks (given the strike, it'll probably be a while until we get more live action Star Trek). I thought it was weaker than the first season (it was still good, but not as good as the first season). Comments on some episodes...

Spoiler:

Ad Astra per Aspera is, IMO, the strongest episode of the season. We've seen this story before, but it was very well done here. The one issue I had was when they described genetic engineering as "endangering the very essence of natural evolution". Evolution isn't some holy force that always does good that musn't be questioned (I really hated the Enterprise episode "Dear Doctor", which is probably why this bit of dialogue set me off). And frankly, we "endanger" "natural evolution" every time someone gets glasses to repair their eyesight or use medical treatments to extend peoples life spans. There are ethical and other considerations regarding augmentation without resorting to the concept of "natural evolution" being sacrosanct.

Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow felt like it would have been better as a two parter. As it was, the climax felt rushed. I guess this also means that Romulans have already successfully altered human history and held back human progress prior to this? I think there should have been a little more than an episode between Pelia being introduced as a very long-lived being and going back in time to meet her. Guinan had a few seasons under her belt when that happened in TNG.

I think there were too many sitcom-like humor focused episodes for one season (LD aside, I don't remember that many in the other series, and often, they were holodeck episodes). Now they were funny, particularly Those Old Scientists, but I would still rather have serious episodes with the occasional humor than episodes built around a humorous concept. Rhapsody had a terrible plot, but the fun of the songs and dance made up for it. Spock and Uhura are great singers (although the only song I really liked was Nurse Chapel's - while there were others that were fun, they others felt forced to fit with the story's plot). Spock had a couple of great humorous moments in the final song (singing "I won't miss singing" when others say they'll miss singing, and when everyone sings "to protect the mission is our prime directive" and Spock says "not exactly), and the bunnies were a nice reference to Buffy.

Under the Cloak of War - First off, having Protocol 12 and not giving it to people who are on a mission you, yourself, describe as a suicide mission, because it's "bad for your health" is absurd (and it didn't seem to have any significant ill effects for M'Benga and Chapel). It also seems absurd that where a huge ground offensive won't work, but a single person on superdrug will singlehandedly reach the headquarters and kill all the generals guards? Second, I didn't particularly enjoy much of the story - maybe it's the writing, maybe I just haven't warmed up to M'Benga (he hasn't had the best stories, IMO).Third - I did think that the general/ambassador was an interesting character (whether or not he had genuinely reformed) and could be interesting to see as a recurring character. That said, I also found having him being murdered was also interesting. What's less interesting is having M'Benga murder him and Chapel lie to cover for him - we've already seen these characters on TOS, and that suggests there will be less chance of serious consequences for it, and there should be some.

Finally, Hegemony. I think it was merely OK. Nurse Chapel being the only person alive and just happened to come about when Spock is right outside the remains of the ship is a bit too much of a coincidence for me. (Speaking of which, I'm fine with their temporary romance, but I do think it shouldn't have had so much screen time). I pretty much predicted that the other Captain would be infected with gorn egg, though being a starship captain and not letting anyone know and staying next to other humans when those eggs will hatch in half a day? Anyway, it wasn't good enough to be a season-ending cliffhanger (they should have just had a two parter end the season). Personally, I think season-ending cliffhangers are a bad idea, unless you've got an entire story arc that covers multiple seasons (best to have arcs that last a single season, like Buffy/Discovery/etc., especially when there's always the risk of a show going off the air.)

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:35 pm

Something im confused about.
Where does discovery, SNW, and Lower Deacks fit in on the various timelines?
Those 3 all appear to be on the same time line.

The TOS, Next Gen, Voyager, and DS9 plus all the movies except the JJ Abrams version are all the same time line.

JJ Abrams movies are their own.

Are the ones in my question now their own timeline as well?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:45 pm

Defiant wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:00 pm
Spoiler:
and the bunnies were a nice reference to Buffy.

I completely missed that. I may have to look up that scene.

Defiant wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:00 pm
Spoiler:
Under the Cloak of War - First off, having Protocol 12 and not giving it to people who are on a mission you, yourself, describe as a suicide mission, because it's "bad for your health" is absurd (and it didn't seem to have any significant ill effects for M'Benga and Chapel).

Spoiler:

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 4:06 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:45 pm

Spoiler:

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 4:14 pm

Punisher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:35 pm Something im confused about.
Where does discovery, SNW, and Lower Deacks fit in on the various timelines?
Those 3 all appear to be on the same time line.

The TOS, Next Gen, Voyager, and DS9 plus all the movies except the JJ Abrams version are all the same time line.

JJ Abrams movies are their own.

Are the ones in my question now their own timeline as well?

Only the JJ Abrams films are in a separate timeline. All the TV shows and the TOS/TNG movies happen in the same timeline/canon.

(Not counting individual episodes that take place in the mirror universe/parallel universes/time travel stories)

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 5:14 pm

Defiant wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 4:06 pm
Spoiler:
I realize that I assumed in the first episode (and based on the name) that it was a drug regularly given to soldiers for hand to hand combat. If it was an off-the-books drug, that only he had made (and Star Fleet was unaware of), I might be able to buy it more, although I still think introducing a superdrug was a bad idea on the part of the writers, and opens up too many cans of worms. I do think a story about a war criminal, and whether he had truly reformed or not and/or a regular character killing a war criminal is a good story, but I just don't think this story did it justice.

Spoiler:

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:30 pm

Defiant wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 4:14 pm
Punisher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:35 pm Something im confused about.
Where does discovery, SNW, and Lower Deacks fit in on the various timelines?
Those 3 all appear to be on the same time line.

The TOS, Next Gen, Voyager, and DS9 plus all the movies except the JJ Abrams version are all the same time line.

JJ Abrams movies are their own.

Are the ones in my question now their own timeline as well?
Only the JJ Abrams films are in a separate timeline. All the TV shows and the TOS/TNG movies happen in the same timeline/canon.

(Not counting individual episodes that take place in the mirror universe/parallel universes/time travel stories)

Great. Thanks for the clarification although it just makes everything more weird for me.
Too many major changes. Things like the ship, inside and out, the uniforms not really being the same as the TOS.
The ship is n9w too futuristic and advanced looking and there is just WAY too much room on the bridge it seems like.

As for the uniforms, i would have bern fine with different materials and minor changes but the mens uniforms areva bit off to me and the women's are very off. Maybe they should have kept with the Discovery type uniforms. They at least showed a progression from Enterprise jumpsuits to what they had. The new uniforms should really have been based off of TOS.

Uhura bothers me. Her hair stands out as a drastic change, but even her whole character. TOS era was smart, decisive, and had full confidence in herself. The new Uhura seems more like she should be in the Starfleet Academy show. Maybe even just starting out. Unless my time frame is off and she soends at least a decade under Pike to grow but I don't think she has that much time.

Their tech also seems too advanced.

I've really just been thinkning that all these things are because its a different timeline and thats why the changes happened. Not that I know they aren't it's probably gonna bug me more. At least I can look forward to forgetjis in a day or two.
If I ask this again just let me know it was answered and I decided I didn't like the answer and didn't want to know it.
Or just straight up lie to me and say its an alt universe.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:15 pm

Every franchise that’s been around as long as Star Trek is going to have cosmetic changes over the years such as the ones you’re having trouble with in SNW. Visual effects have changed dramatically since the sixties, so the show is going to reflect that.

As for uniforms, they’ve changed so many times over the course of the many different shows that it’s not even something I think about at this point. As long as they’re not parading around in Zardoz leather harnesses, I’m fine.

If the shows keep the spirit and the conceit of Star Trek, I can overlook these relatively small changes here and there. Star Trek has always been about exploration, hope and humanity. If they veer from that, it won’t be Star Trek anymore.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:04 pm

Yeah, pretty much any show, especially one that uses a lot of special effects, is going to update their look (the TOS movies did that, too). I do think they could go for a little less shiny, but at least it's doesn't have JJ Abrams level of light flares.

Strange New Worlds takes place about 7 or 8 years before the TOS show - Uhura *is* just out of the academy at the start of the show (and IIRC, she gets shifted into a few different departments for training, so, for example, she learns from Engineer Hemmer in one or a few of the early episodes).

For me, the only real jarring issue is the Gorn (since it's not just their appearance that seems to have changed), but I assume (hope) they have a plan in place so that it makes sense.

It's also completely fine to consider the different shows to be different universes (a parallel universe where most of the events are the same but they have different fashion sense and the like), if you want to. Lower Decks is the only series that *directly* connects to this one (in that there's an actual crossover, and even crossovers could take place in different universes, as seen by the, uh, DS9 Mirror Universe episode "Crossover").

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:28 am

Punisher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:35 pm Something im confused about.
Where does discovery, SNW, and Lower Deacks fit in on the various timelines?
Those 3 all appear to be on the same time line.

The TOS, Next Gen, Voyager, and DS9 plus all the movies except the JJ Abrams version are all the same time line.

Same universe (the "Prime Universe"), in order:

Enterprise
TOS pilot
Discover seasons 1 and 2
Strange New Worlds
TOS
The Animated Series
TNG
DS9
Voyager
Lower Decks
Prodigy
Picard
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Discover season 3

Side note: TNG overlaps with DS9, and DS9 overlaps with Voyager (by two years each, I believe, so TNG 6 is DS9 1, and DS9 6 is VOY 1.) And of course time travel episodes take place all over - I believe the earliest was around 3.5 billion BC.

I'm mildly proud of myself - the only one I needed to look up was Prodigy.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:57 am

Prodigy will be the forgotten ST. Sorry, John Noble, you backed the wrong space horse.

Prodigy was better than expected for a children's show but will soon pass into Prodi-what-now?

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:11 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:28 am so TNG 6 is DS9 1, and DS9 6 is VOY 1.

I think this is the only mistake you made - Voyager Season 1 takes place around DS9 Season 3 (shortly after the end of TNG), although outside of a couple of episodes (the pilot and one that references the Dominion War) there's not much in the way of overlap since it's generally out on it's own.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:24 am

We recently got Paramount+ in my household, so I've been able to check this out. It's delightful so far (through episode 6). I grew up watching the original series, and I hadn't realized how much I missed that vibe until I watched Strange New Worlds. At turns playful and moralizing, with largely self-contained episodes - that's the good stuff.

Interestingly, my spouse is less enamored. She's more of a TNG fan, and the new show is too much like the original series for her tastes.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sat Sep 30, 2023 11:54 am

Defiant wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:11 am
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:28 am so TNG 6 is DS9 1, and DS9 6 is VOY 1.
I think this is the only mistake you made - Voyager Season 1 takes place around DS9 Season 3 (shortly after the end of TNG), although outside of a couple of episodes (the pilot and one that references the Dominion War) there's not much in the way of overlap since it's generally out on it's own.

And if you want to get technical (and who doesn't) most of Picard season 2 takes place prior to Enterprise. Agnes wasn't eating a 22nd or 23rd century car battery in a Los Angeles parking lot.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:10 pm

The only rational way to order Trek series is to order them from their base time period (although, as I understand it, Discovery's base time changed.)

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Oct 01, 2023 6:15 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 11:54 am
Defiant wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:11 am
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:28 am so TNG 6 is DS9 1, and DS9 6 is VOY 1.
I think this is the only mistake you made - Voyager Season 1 takes place around DS9 Season 3 (shortly after the end of TNG), although outside of a couple of episodes (the pilot and one that references the Dominion War) there's not much in the way of overlap since it's generally out on it's own.
And if you want to get technical (and who doesn't) most of Picard season 2 takes place prior to Enterprise. Agnes wasn't eating a 22nd or 23rd century car battery in a Los Angeles parking lot.

Also, that’s not considered part of the original or even Kelvin timelines, but rather part of something called The Shitty Timeline.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Oct 01, 2023 10:24 am

Is that where Spock's Brain, Sub Rosa (magic lamp with a Scottish ghost!), any episode with Dark Kira, and whole swathes of Voyager took place? And isn't that where Lizard-Klingons came from?

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:06 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 10:24 am Is that where Spock's Brain, Sub Rosa (magic lamp with a Scottish ghost!), any episode with Dark Kira, and whole swathes of Voyager took place? And isn't that where Lizard-Klingons came from?

BRAIN, BRAIN WHAT IS BRAIN!?!

I had fond memories of that episode but it sure wasn't because of the sophisticated dialogue.

I think the one bad TOS Trek I really couldn't give a pass to was Way to Eden. Those space hippies got what was coming to them.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:18 pm

Way to Eden had camp going for it. It aged so badly that it's humorous. Spock's Brain, on the other hand, was just a torture you wanted to stop (along with the others I mentioned, plus the horrible one where Riker was a prisoner somewhere doing some sort of... play?)

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:04 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:18 pm Way to Eden had camp going for it. It aged so badly that it's humorous. Spock's Brain, on the other hand, was just a torture you wanted to stop (along with the others I mentioned, plus the horrible one where Riker was a prisoner somewhere doing some sort of... play?)

I like living in a world where someone can find something positive about Spock’s Brain or Way to Eden.