[Paramount+] Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[Isgrimnur]

Nah, they’ll do A Happening at Owl Creek Bridge first. Maybe a Parent Trap caused by a transporter malfunction

[malchior]

I still like the show a great deal, but Freaky Friday? If they do a Groundhog’s Day episode, you’re just going to hear a pop coming from the direction of Chicago, then one of the guys here will post about how I died from spontaneous combustion.

I'm with you here. A body switch episode 5 into a new series? That's usually mjd-season 4 or 5 material. Not a good sign. I had to raise my hands to the sky and yell Goldsman.

[hepcat]

However, episode 6 redeemed the show for that misstep, in my opinion. Now THAT was some classic Star Trek. We're not at the level of a The Pale Moonlight, City at the Edge of Forever or The Measure of a Man yet, but this is promising.

[Isgrimnur]

But how does it compare to "The Empath"?

[hepcat]

Sacrifice is definitely the theme. Well, that and what others are willing to live with in order to ensure their safety.

[Daehawk]

Soooo, over all how is this ride going? Scaled 1 (low) to 10 (high) how is Strange New Worlds rating? On average. Ive watched clips. The sound and score is very Trek'ish.

[$iljanus]

But how does it compare to "The Empath"?

Really well I thought. Star Trek (The Original Series) really didn’t sugar coat the nature of sacrifice in The Empath and another episode, The Mark of Gideon. The Strange New Worlds take however goes in a slightly different direction…

Spoiler:

The characters in the original series were adults and made adult choices but the horrifying nature of the sacrifice in this episode is that it’s a small child who was essentially groomed for the role and I don’t think really had much agency regarding his fate.

[Blackhawk]

Coupla quick questions:

How much would I be missing watching this without having seen Discovery?

And

Do they pay attention to established canon, or just discard it? I'm not talking velour shirts and gumdrop buttons, I'm just talking about not including elements a hundred years before they were discovered, or giving the Orions tails and cat ears.

[Isgrimnur]

giving the Orions tails and cat ears.

#ReleaseTheButtholeCut

[hepcat]

Coupla quick questions:

How much would I be missing watching this without having seen Discovery?

And

Do they pay attention to established canon, or just discard it? I'm not talking velour shirts and gumdrop buttons, I'm just talking about not including elements a hundred years before they were discovered, or giving the Orions tails and cat ears.

For you, I'd say skip it as I'm guessing you won't like it. It has the same look and feels as Discovery, and is literally a spin off, albeit more episodic.

You'll get angry the first time they mention the Gorn, for example.

But since all other star trek shows have issues with continuity, that kind of stuff doesn't bother me.

[Blackhawk]

You'll get angry the first time they mention the Gorn, for example.

No, I wouldn't. There is no reason to believe that the Federation hadn't heard of the Gorn or mentioned them prior to the TOS episode. Just that they didn't recognize them on sight.

But since all other star trek shows have issues with continuity, that kind of stuff doesn't bother me.

And since you and I have different definitions of 'continuity', I'll just say thanks and move on.

[hepcat]

reverse psychology at work, folks.

p.s they establish quite clearly in the Arena that that was the Federation's first encounter with the Gorn. but if you're okay with this kind of thing, and can even rationalize it at this point, I think we have a closer definition of continuity than you think.

[Blackhawk]

reverse psychology at work, folks.

p.s they establish quite clearly in the Arena that that was the Federation's first encounter with the Gorn. but if you're okay with this kind of thing, and can even rationalize it at this point, I think we have a closer definition of continuity than you think.

When the Gorn show up, do they look like Klingons? If so, I think my issues may just be a mix-up in the costume department.

[hepcat]

In the Arena they state the federation has no record of any race called the Gorn. In Strange New Worlds they retcon things and say the Gorn have been around for a while, conducting raids and enslaving colonists. Hell, one of the crew members of the Enterprise in Strange New Worlds is supposed to have escaped one of those Gorn prison camps.

They try to lesson this obvious break in canon by saying the Federation has no actual sighting of the race itself, just their ships, but they clearly call them Gorn, and they clearly know OF them.

I don’t mind this that much. It’s not like Enterprise the series didn’t also mention the Gorn centuries before they were encountered too (although in a “heard of them through a friend” manner). And Star Trek has a history of well documented continuity issues (both small and large). If you love Star Trek, you sometimes have to love it warts and all.

But it is the kind of thing you stated bothered you about Discovery. Hence my suggestion to avoid SNW as it has both the same look as Discovery and has continuity issues that would bother you if you’re earlier complaints about such things still holds true.

[Blackhawk]

But it is the kind of thing you stated bothered you about Discovery.

To be honest, not nearly as much. As you've said, Trek has always had continuity issues. Always. It's a matter of scale, though. The Gorn have had two episodes in live action Trek history. It's a continuity change, yes, but nothing on the scale of altering a race that has had two shows with major characters of that race. In fact, in our last discussion, I said that it would be a different matter entirely if they took something far less established and took that in a new direction (I specifically mentioned the Nausicaans as an alternative to Klingons - this is at the same level.)


/edit - but I really don't want to derail another thread!

[hepcat]

So it’s not really continuity we have different definitions of, it’s scale. That’s fine. I will say I always hated what discovery did with Klingons. It’s easy enough to go back and find my railings against what they did. But unlike some shows, instead of doubling down, discovery basically issues a mea culpa in season 2 and brings them back much closer to classic Klingons.

Strange New Worlds still shares the same look and style as Discovery though. As that was a point of contention for you, I still think you probably won’t like any of the new Star Trek.

[Daehawk]

[Daehawk]

[El Guapo]

Is Episode 5 of this season (Spock Amok) good? I was preparing to watch the next episode of SNW but then I saw in the description of this episode that it was a "Comedy of manners". Balking at that phrase, I just went ahead to episode 6. But I just wanted to check in here to see whether the skipped episode is, in fact, good.

[Daehawk]

Why would you skip an ep of this show? The names are all done in fun like the original.

[hepcat]

Is Episode 5 of this season (Spock Amok) good?

It was a Freaky Friday/body switch episode. I wasn’t a fan of it. I equate it with the holosuite episodes from TNG, which I found mostly mediocre to awful. It’s finding its footing, so there are bound to be fillers.

That being said, they did establish that there’s something between Chapel and Spock, although that’s not really news. It plays into the latest episode a bit. But if you don’t care about the soap opera aspect, you can ignore 5 and just watch the infinitely more entertaining original version of Freaky Friday from 1976 and starring a young Jodie Foster; as well as featuring a career making performance by Dick Van Patten, who eventually went on to have 8 kids…which he felt was enough.

[Eel Snave]

Sometimes Star Trek is silly.

[El Guapo]

Is Episode 5 of this season (Spock Amok) good?

It was a Freaky Friday/body switch episode. I wasn’t a fan of it. I equate it with the holosuite episodes from TNG, which I found mostly mediocre to awful. It’s finding its footing, so there are bound to be fillers.

That being said, they did establish that there’s something between Chapel and Spock, although that’s not really news. It plays into the latest episode a bit. But if you don’t care about the soap opera aspect, you can ignore 5 and just watch the infinitely more entertaining original version of Freaky Friday from 1976 and starring a young Jodie Foster; as well as featuring a career making performance by Dick Van Patten, who eventually went on to have 8 kids…which he felt was enough.

Thanks. Yeah, something about the phrase "comedy of matters" made me disinterested. I know that there are good 'silly' parts of Star Trek (the tribbles, all of Star Trek IV), but I guess I just wasn't in the mood for silly Trek at the moment.

[hepcat]

Did you watch the original Freaky Friday instead? There's just not enough Van Patten in that, I would say. But then again, there can never be enough Van Patten.

[hepcat]

It’s official….I am not a fan of what they’re doing with the Gorn. I get it, they want xenomorphs. But turning the Gorns into them isn’t working for me. Also, why do they need xenomorphs? To be fair, The Orville just created their own version too, so it must be the trendy thing again.

[El Guapo]

It’s official….I am not a fan of what they’re doing with the Gorn. I get it, they want xenomorphs. But turning the Gorns into them isn’t working for me. Also, why do they need xenomorphs? To be fair, The Orville just created their own version too, so it must be the trendy thing again.

Yeah, I enjoyed that last episode all things considered, and very much enjoy SNW. BUT...good lord that episode was hardcore ripping off Aliens in a way that was not even remotely subtle. They even included (an unnamed) Newt!

And not that I'm an expert on the Gorn by any means...but aren't they a spacefaring species? Just really hard to see how to square that with what's in the episode.

[hepcat]

They started strong, but these last few episodes have been lackluster, in my opinion. And yes, I totally agree that the Gorn they're trying to force down our throats are stupid. They're derivative, badly thought out and dangerously close to full on retcon.

[Blackhawk]

[Daehawk]

[El Guapo]

They started strong, but these last few episodes have been lackluster, in my opinion. And yes, I totally agree that the Gorn they're trying to force down our throats are stupid. They're derivative, badly thought out and dangerously close to full on retcon.

The last episode feels like a studio executive at Paramount saw Aliens for the first time during the creation of Strange New Worlds.

[malchior]

They started strong, but these last few episodes have been lackluster, in my opinion. And yes, I totally agree that the Gorn they're trying to force down our throats are stupid. They're derivative, badly thought out and dangerously close to full on retcon.

Same here. Not a fan. They're always seemingly trying to find their Borg replacement so they have a proper big bad.

As an aside, I thought last week's episode was interesting narratively as I was surprised they tied the Doctor's subplot up so quickly. However I thought there were odd choices for a new show. The entire point of a fantasy story like that is to have the characters play against or outside their type. Except it's what - episode 7? These characters aren't set up enough and we got some really...cringey performances out of it.

[Daehawk]

Maybe they'll go to Risa for a while.

[hepcat]

I still like the cast (for the most part) and I fully understand that it's almost tradition at this point for the first season of a Star Trek show to flounder until it finds its footing. So I'll stick with it. They may do an about face like they did on Discovery in season 2 and right the ship, so to speak, when it comes to the Gorn.

Spoiler:

I was surprised to see Hemmer disappear in the first season. I actually grew to like him after initially discounting him as "Daredevil lite". I think it was his pacifism counterbalanced by a crusty exterior (usually pacifists are monk like on these shows, displaying little to no emotion, or just being too nice to everyone) that appealed to me. He went out like a boss though.

At least now you know I'm not just a fanboy slavishly loving everything they throw at me.

However I thought there were odd choices for a new show. The entire point of a fantasy story like that is to have the characters play against or outside their type. Except it's what - episode 7? These characters aren't set up enough and we got some really...cringey performances out of it.

Don't get me started on that.

Spoiler:

They should never have had such a heartbreaking moment like the one with the doctor saying goodbye to his daughter...only to have her reappear literally seconds later to announce all is fine. I had a similar complaint about Orville and Isaac's suicide after they brought him back at the end of the episode. They destroy any emotional momentum when they do that crap. Wait a while THEN pull that crap if you must.

[Daehawk]

Only see clips...not a tv watcher.....was set to hate Chapel...but dangit now I got a crush on her.

[hepcat]

If you're just watching clips, you're missing out on the fact that Strange New Worlds is actually an episodic remake of the Point Break movie with Spock playing the Johnny Utah role and Uhuru as Bodhi.

[Daehawk]

I thought Dr M'benga was supposed to be Bodhi.

EDIT: Wait a minute....come to think of it didn't Sulu serve with Captain Pike?

[El Guapo]

Yeah, regarding the most recent episode of the show that we're all discussing:

Spoiler:

I was surprised to see Hemmer bite it as well. Too bad, as I was growing to like him as a character. I did respect that the show was willing to kill off a fairly major character (to date), which does raise the stakes a bit for the show (though obviously they're limited insofar as they can't kill any of the TOS characters).

It was a good episode though - it's just some tweaks that would've made it much better (e.g., make the aliens creatures hunting pets that the Gorn use, rather than the Gorn themselves; make the episode just Aliens inspired rather than a direct Aliens rip-off).

With this stuff it feels a bit like there's just someone in the leadership there that has terrible instincts, which is why we periodically get crap like Picard season 2.

[malchior]

*Cough* Akiva Goldsman. *Cough*

[hepcat]

Ugh...don't remind me. The man who tried to rewrite I Am Legend.

[Hrdina]

I still like the cast (for the most part) and I fully understand that it's almost tradition at this point for the first season of a Star Trek show to flounder until it finds its footing. So I'll stick with it. They may do an about face like they did on Discovery in season 2 and right the ship, so to speak, when it comes to the Gorn.

Didn't they right the ship on Discovery by bringing in Pike and Spock?