Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Skinypupy
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Skinypupy »

Grifman wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:34 pm Dems suck at the culture war.
99% of the culture war is very thinly veiled (or not veiled at all) racism and bigotry, but the GOP will never admit that. What kind of answer do you think you'd get it you asked that lady to explain what CRT, equity, diversity, Marxism, etc are and why they're bad?

I don't know you how fight that outside of improving education, and lord knows we ain't getting that any time soon.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Pyperkub »

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:51 pm
Grifman wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:34 pm Dems suck at the culture war.
99% of the culture war is very thinly veiled (or not veiled at all) racism and bigotry, but the GOP will never admit that. What kind of answer do you think you'd get it you asked that lady to explain what CRT, equity, diversity, Marxism, etc are and why they're bad?

I don't know you how fight that outside of improving education, and lord knows we ain't getting that any time soon.
Yeah, the culture war is one-sided. All of those things the GOP rails against in their lies and insinuations regarding their Culture wars flow naturally from Constitutional Rights and Obligations. It's why the current insanity on the Supreme Court has been so important. Just about every single culture war item can be boiled down to not liking Supreme Court decisions with regards to ensuring the constitutional rights of various groups the GOP Culture warriors sell fear of.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Holman »

Grifman wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:34 pm Dems suck at the culture war.
Dems treat it like a culture. Reps treat it like a war.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by El Guapo »

I'm not sure I agree that Democrats are bad at fighting the culture war. Part of it is that the "good" side of the culture war doesn't feel like war - it's pushing for things like greater tolerance for minorities. And there has been a ton of progress on that. Like 15 years ago gay marriage was legal in maybe two or three states, now it's legal everywhere and has pretty widespread support. Part of the challenge we have is that there is a determined minority in opposition that its disproportionately empowered by our constitutional system, but it is a minority at this point.

In fact, part of the reason that democracy is under threat is that the Stephen Millers of the world know that it's not realistic in the long run to "win" the culture war through democratic means.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by coopasonic »

Part of the problem is, taking one specific item as an example, how do you succinctly respond to "Stop CRT in Schools!" People get hung up on the term rather than what's behind it, but even if you go for what's behind it, how do you explain in an easily understandable way that teaching actual history is important and if teaching actual history makes kids hate America, maybe we should actually address that rather than pretend it didn't happen. Hate is just so much easier to express.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Zaxxon »

coopasonic wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:40 pm maybe we should actually address that rather than pretend it didn't happen
Pretending it didn't happen is how we address it, man.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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The usual example..


Between the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Immigration Act, you have the seeds for the complete destruction of America.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Migrants flown to Martha’s Vineyard sue DeSantis, allege the relocations violated their Fourth and 14th Amendment rights and the Civil Rights Act of 1964
Where did I see if you're going to illegally displace migrants, don't send them to an island full of lawyers. :lol:
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Obama had the right idea:

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Oregon going red?

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Kurth »

Believe it. If Kotek wins, I think it’s going to be by a razor thin margin.

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Alefroth »

Is that all it takes to color a state? Is MA red? Are KS, KY, and LA blue?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Grifman »

Alefroth wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:16 pm Is that all it takes to color a state? Is MA red? Are KS, KY, and LA blue?
Show me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article:
Some Oregon Democrats argue that Drazan’s competitiveness is a fluke, a product of the well-funded spoiler campaign being run by Betsy Johnson, a centrist ex-Democrat who has received $3.75 million from the Nike co-founder Phil Knight. But that doesn’t explain why so many Democrats are willing to defect to Johnson in the first place. (FiveThirtyEight’s polling average has her getting 13.8 percent of the vote.) Nor does it explain why Democrats are struggling in congressional districts neighboring Portland. The Cook Political Report rates Oregon’s Sixth District, which went for Joe Biden by 13 points, a tossup, even though the Republican nominee is, like Georgia’s Herschel Walker, an abortion opponent who reportedly paid for the abortion of a woman he dated.

Four of our six House seats could end up in red territory,” Senator Jeff Merkley told me after a rally here with Kotek and Bernie Sanders. The fact that Sanders was in Oregon in the first place — Biden and Elizabeth Warren have also come through — is a sign of how shaky things are for Democrats in the formerly safely blue state.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Alefroth »

Grifman wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:01 pm
Alefroth wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:16 pm Is that all it takes to color a state? Is MA red? Are KS, KY, and LA blue?
Show me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article:
I would have just said so, I don't bother with NYT opinion pieces. This is where I saw the sentiment before-
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by El Guapo »

Grifman wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:01 pm
Alefroth wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:16 pm Is that all it takes to color a state? Is MA red? Are KS, KY, and LA blue?
Show me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article:
Some Oregon Democrats argue that Drazan’s competitiveness is a fluke, a product of the well-funded spoiler campaign being run by Betsy Johnson, a centrist ex-Democrat who has received $3.75 million from the Nike co-founder Phil Knight. But that doesn’t explain why so many Democrats are willing to defect to Johnson in the first place. (FiveThirtyEight’s polling average has her getting 13.8 percent of the vote.) Nor does it explain why Democrats are struggling in congressional districts neighboring Portland. The Cook Political Report rates Oregon’s Sixth District, which went for Joe Biden by 13 points, a tossup, even though the Republican nominee is, like Georgia’s Herschel Walker, an abortion opponent who reportedly paid for the abortion of a woman he dated.

Four of our six House seats could end up in red territory,” Senator Jeff Merkley told me after a rally here with Kotek and Bernie Sanders. The fact that Sanders was in Oregon in the first place — Biden and Elizabeth Warren have also come through — is a sign of how shaky things are for Democrats in the formerly safely blue state.
This is a little stupid, though. The answer to the question as to why the race is competitive is Betsy Johnson. I don't think anyone thinks that the race would be competitive but for her campaign. Is the stuff highlighted in the piece also contributing? Sure, as I imagine is the general pro-GOP flavor of the presidential mid-term race. But Johnson is obviously by far the main factor making the race competitive.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Kurth »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:10 pm
Grifman wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:01 pm
Alefroth wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:16 pm Is that all it takes to color a state? Is MA red? Are KS, KY, and LA blue?
Show me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article:
Some Oregon Democrats argue that Drazan’s competitiveness is a fluke, a product of the well-funded spoiler campaign being run by Betsy Johnson, a centrist ex-Democrat who has received $3.75 million from the Nike co-founder Phil Knight. But that doesn’t explain why so many Democrats are willing to defect to Johnson in the first place. (FiveThirtyEight’s polling average has her getting 13.8 percent of the vote.) Nor does it explain why Democrats are struggling in congressional districts neighboring Portland. The Cook Political Report rates Oregon’s Sixth District, which went for Joe Biden by 13 points, a tossup, even though the Republican nominee is, like Georgia’s Herschel Walker, an abortion opponent who reportedly paid for the abortion of a woman he dated.

Four of our six House seats could end up in red territory,” Senator Jeff Merkley told me after a rally here with Kotek and Bernie Sanders. The fact that Sanders was in Oregon in the first place — Biden and Elizabeth Warren have also come through — is a sign of how shaky things are for Democrats in the formerly safely blue state.
This is a little stupid, though. The answer to the question as to why the race is competitive is Betsy Johnson. I don't think anyone thinks that the race would be competitive but for her campaign. Is the stuff highlighted in the piece also contributing? Sure, as I imagine is the general pro-GOP flavor of the presidential mid-term race. But Johnson is obviously by far the main factor making the race competitive.
I don't understand. Of course Johnson is the reason the race is competitive. The article asks, "why is that?" It's not just because of Phil Knight. There are enough people - me being one of them - who would never vote for the GOP candidate but are sorely tempted to vote for Johnson because of what a sorry job the Democratic political establishment have done recently.

I think the whole point of the article is that it's reductive to just point to the presence of Betsy Johnson as "the reason" why Tina Kotek is in serious trouble without asking why an independent candidate like Johnson is such a threat to Kotek. She's in trouble because many people in this state (rightly or wrongly) blame the Democrats for kicking the can down the road on homelessness and making Portland what it is today.

If you think the answer to the question is "Betsy Johnson," you're not asking the right question.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Johnson has zero chance of winning. Who would fund such a candidate and what are their motives? I don't know the state at all so I can't really make a judgement but always follow the money.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Exodor »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:51 am Johnson has zero chance of winning. Who would fund such a candidate and what are their motives? I don't know the state at all so I can't really make a judgement but always follow the money.
Phil Knight to help elect a Republican.

Republicans can't win in Oregon without splitting the Democratic vote.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by El Guapo »

Kurth wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:35 am
El Guapo wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:10 pm
Grifman wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:01 pm
Alefroth wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:16 pm Is that all it takes to color a state? Is MA red? Are KS, KY, and LA blue?
Show me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article:
Some Oregon Democrats argue that Drazan’s competitiveness is a fluke, a product of the well-funded spoiler campaign being run by Betsy Johnson, a centrist ex-Democrat who has received $3.75 million from the Nike co-founder Phil Knight. But that doesn’t explain why so many Democrats are willing to defect to Johnson in the first place. (FiveThirtyEight’s polling average has her getting 13.8 percent of the vote.) Nor does it explain why Democrats are struggling in congressional districts neighboring Portland. The Cook Political Report rates Oregon’s Sixth District, which went for Joe Biden by 13 points, a tossup, even though the Republican nominee is, like Georgia’s Herschel Walker, an abortion opponent who reportedly paid for the abortion of a woman he dated.

Four of our six House seats could end up in red territory,” Senator Jeff Merkley told me after a rally here with Kotek and Bernie Sanders. The fact that Sanders was in Oregon in the first place — Biden and Elizabeth Warren have also come through — is a sign of how shaky things are for Democrats in the formerly safely blue state.
This is a little stupid, though. The answer to the question as to why the race is competitive is Betsy Johnson. I don't think anyone thinks that the race would be competitive but for her campaign. Is the stuff highlighted in the piece also contributing? Sure, as I imagine is the general pro-GOP flavor of the presidential mid-term race. But Johnson is obviously by far the main factor making the race competitive.
I don't understand. Of course Johnson is the reason the race is competitive. The article asks, "why is that?" It's not just because of Phil Knight. There are enough people - me being one of them - who would never vote for the GOP candidate but are sorely tempted to vote for Johnson because of what a sorry job the Democratic political establishment have done recently.

I think the whole point of the article is that it's reductive to just point to the presence of Betsy Johnson as "the reason" why Tina Kotek is in serious trouble without asking why an independent candidate like Johnson is such a threat to Kotek. She's in trouble because many people in this state (rightly or wrongly) blame the Democrats for kicking the can down the road on homelessness and making Portland what it is today.

If you think the answer to the question is "Betsy Johnson," you're not asking the right question.
Maybe this is splitting hairs, but to me the direct answer to "why is the GOP suddenly competitive in the OR governor's race despite it being a blue state?" is that there are two popular democrats in the race and only one Republican, and that as a result under the election rules the Republican can win without getting a majority of the vote. Put differently - if Johnson dropped out today, then Kotek would immediately become a strong favorite in the election, even without homelessness and Portland changing a bit.

There is a story about why there are a sizable minority of Democrats sufficiently pissed off to splinter the Democratic vote, to be sure, but the election rules and the division of the vote is the most direct cause of the race being competitive.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Madmarcus »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:33 am if Johnson dropped out today, then Kotek would immediately become a strong favorite in the election, even without homelessness and Portland changing a bit. There is a story about why there are a sizable minority of Democrats sufficiently pissed off to splinter the Democratic vote, to be sure, but the election rules and the division of the vote is the most direct cause of the race being competitive.
The flip side of this is that if Kotek dropped out Johnson would immediately become a strong favorite in the election. If I was in Oregon I'd vote for Kotek but I still hate the narrative of vote for the person you dislike least instead of the candidate that you might prefer.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Madmarcus wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:02 pm
El Guapo wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:33 am if Johnson dropped out today, then Kotek would immediately become a strong favorite in the election, even without homelessness and Portland changing a bit. There is a story about why there are a sizable minority of Democrats sufficiently pissed off to splinter the Democratic vote, to be sure, but the election rules and the division of the vote is the most direct cause of the race being competitive.
The flip side of this is that if Kotek dropped out Johnson would immediately become a strong favorite in the election. If I was in Oregon I'd vote for Kotek but I still hate the narrative of vote for the person you dislike least instead of the candidate that you might prefer.
Right - the main issue is that the vote is divided.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Madmarcus wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:02 pm If I was in Oregon I'd vote for Kotek but I still hate the narrative of vote for the person you dislike least instead of the candidate that you might prefer.
Outside of my votes for Ron Wyden I can think of very few major races where I'm not voting for the least bad option.


Even Bo Burnham got it in 2020. Biden was the first choice of few but the best option available.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by coopasonic »

Exodor wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:09 pm
Madmarcus wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:02 pm If I was in Oregon I'd vote for Kotek but I still hate the narrative of vote for the person you dislike least instead of the candidate that you might prefer.
Outside of my votes for Ron Wyden I can think of very few major races where I'm not voting for the least bad option.


Even Bo Burnham got it in 2020. Biden was the first choice of few but the best option available.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Carpet_pissr »

coopasonic wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:27 pm I cast a vote for every candidate that was on board for campaign finance reform and ranked choice voting, then I woke up, got dressed and voted against the Rs.
LOL
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Enjoy your Republican Party, 'Hispanic Voters'.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Grifman »

Unagi wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:22 pm Enjoy your Republican Party, 'Hispanic Voters'.
Apparently they are.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Grifman wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:44 am
Unagi wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:22 pm Enjoy your Republican Party, 'Hispanic Voters'.
Apparently they are.
This is season one.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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And they won't wait until season 8 to burn the place down.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Grifman »

Unagi wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:32 am
Grifman wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:44 am
Unagi wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:22 pm Enjoy your Republican Party, 'Hispanic Voters'.
Apparently they are.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Democratic incompetence:

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Little Raven »

Ruy Teixeira lays it out.
As we move into the endgame of the 2022 election, the Democrats face a familiar problem. America’s historical party of the working class keeps losing working-class support. And not just among white voters. Not only has the emerging Democratic majority I once predicted failed to materialize, but many of the nonwhite voters who were supposed to deliver it are instead voting for Republicans.

This year, Democrats have chosen to run a campaign focused on three things: abortion rights, gun control, and safeguarding democracy—issues with strong appeal to socially liberal, college-educated voters. But these issues have much less appeal to working-class voters. They are instead focused on the economy, inflation, and crime, and they are skeptical of the Democratic Party’s performance in all three realms.

This inattentiveness to working-class concerns is not peculiar to the present election. The roots of the Democrats’ struggles go back at least as far as Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign in 2016, and, as important, to the way in which many Democrats chose to interpret her defeat. Those mistakes, compounded over subsequent election cycles and amplified by vocal activists, now threaten to deliver another stinging disappointment for the Democratic Party. But until Democrats are prepared to grapple honestly with the sources of their electoral struggles, that streak is unlikely to end.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Zarathud »

These working class issues were warned about by Robert Reich after the Clinton presidency. If the FOX propaganda convinced working class voters to stop listening to “immoral Democrats” then extremist conservative agenda is their only option.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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And Mass. governor-elect Maura Healey has her first scandal.
For years, Maura Healey has said she is a Bostonian, living first in Charlestown before last year moving to the South End. As of Tuesday afternoon, the governor-elect’s campaign website said she lives in Boston. State campaign records had, too.

But in reality, Healey quietly moved to Cambridge months before her election victory last week, a relocation she had not shared with campaign finance officials, the general public, and even some supporters.

Even now, aides to the attorney general can’t say whether she will return to Boston, though they are calling her move to an apartment in Porter Square temporary. The Democrat relocated there in July, according to her campaign, and registered to vote in Cambridge on Aug. 9, election officials in that city said.

It’s unclear why Healey appeared to keep her current residency under wraps. By not moving more quickly to notify campaign finance officials, the state’s chief law enforcement officer appears to have violated state law, a misstep Healey’s campaign said was unintentional. More broadly, good government experts say, the lack of disclosure keeps from the public a basic, but vital piece of information.
...
Before the Globe raised questions about Healey’s residency, her campaign had yet to notify the Office of Campaign and Political Finance of her change of address. That appears to be a violation of state law, which requires candidates tell OCPF of an address change within 10 days. The office then would update a candidate’s publicly available records.

Healey’s campaign said that it believed the 10-day rule applied to the address for the campaign committee, not her residential address. Aides said they had notified OCPF on Tuesday of the address change, and her campaign finance records reflected the change by Tuesday evening.

It’s unclear whether Healey could face legal ramifications for failing to update OCPF sooner. Speaking generally, a spokesman for OCPF said state officials consider any potential violations of the law on a case-by-case basis, “with the ultimate goal of resolving whatever the issue is.” The law itself does not include any specific penalties or fines for failing to notify the office of the change within the 10-day window.
:lol:
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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Lock! Her! Up!
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Kraken »

I will post updates on Move-a-Lago as the situation develops.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

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She should solve it by having Boston annex Cambridge.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Kraken wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:02 pm I will post updates on Move-a-Lago as the situation develops.
Smug blue-state assholes! :D PLEASE trade governors with us...I would LOVE to see how you collectively respond to having a literal copy of Foghorn Leghorn in your governor's mansion. His exaggerated, drawly squawking is so incomprehensibly dumb (the sound AND the content) that it actually has the effect of loweing your IQ just by listening to it.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Democratic Party

Post by Holman »

Kraken wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:40 am And Mass. governor-elect Maura Healey has her first scandal.
Is a strict separation between Boston and Cambridge a huge deal in Massachusetts?

I've said my whole life that I'm from Atlanta, but I've never lived in the city limits. Instead I've had addresses in Decatur, Dunwoody, and Norcross, all of which are technically separate municipalities but come under the umbrella of metro Atlanta.
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