[Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Sudy »

In reply to the above:
Spoiler:
That was on my list of gripes until I figured the door had been weakened by the preceding blasts.

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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Hyena wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:27 pm
El Guapo wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:55 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:52 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:25 am If find both her role and acting to be consistent with how Star Wars bad guys have been portrayed since the first movie - stiff and formal, very little subtlety.
I agree that there are quite a few cartoony, one-dimensional over the top villains (General Hux I'm looking at you!). But great, well-acted villains also exist in the SW universe:
Kylo Ren comes to mind. Amazing villain, amazing acting.
Phasma was also good I think, without being crazy over the top.
Count Dooku
Palpatine in his various iterations.
Several others.
I dunno. I was just thinking (in part prompted by this series) that in some ways the Sith are a limitation on the greatness of future Star Wars because they are fairly cartoon-y villains in general ("we want power and to destroy the weak and children!"). Kylo Ren was pretty good (largely because Adam Driver did a great job) but most of the villains are fairly weak - Dooku in particular was something of a missed opportunity, especially since they had Christopher Lee to work with.
I agree with you, but if you're going to mention missed opportunities, I think you HAVE to look at Phasma. She was portrayed as the ultimate bad ass, chrome ST armor and everything, but she literally had two scenes, both of which she got her ass whooped in seconds. I mean, if you're going to put someone in armor like that and make her the first known female ST in any Star Wars format, do something with her. She got the Boba Fett treatment SO bad.
All part of the Disney master marketing plan: Cap’n Phasma Disney+ coming soon. :D
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Unagi »

All this has got me rethinking how lame Obi-won’s death in EpIV was.

Yeah yeah. ‘If you strike me down I become more powerful’

Did that really happen? Did he become more powerful?
I mean, he retained the ability to inspire Luke with advise like ‘Use the force…’ , but I have to wonder what he really meant by being so powerful if struck down.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Smoove_B »

Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:06 am but I have to wonder what he really meant by being so powerful if struck down.
He then gets to live rent-free in Vader's head forever, reminding him that even in death Obi-Wan was still a better person.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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That line stuck in my head the first time I saw it. I was expecting some big payoff in the original sequels and was disappointed when it didn't happen. I think I asked my uncle who was a bit of a sci-fi nut at that time what Ben meant, and he told me "You'll see." Well, all I saw was him becoming a somewhat useless force ghost. If it was just a taunt it was a letdown.

I'm sure there's a detailed, retconned explanation online if you search for it. But I always chalked it up to Lucas not having a clear plan or outline for the mythology at the time (or ever). Much like the "bring balance to the force" prophecy we were discussing earlier. Mind you, it's been a while since I've watched or analyzed these films, so I'm sure there are elements I'm missing. But when they're so easily forgotten or misunderstood, it's part of the problem.
Last edited by Sudy on Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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I always thought the "balance to the force" thing was actually a misunderstanding of the jedi council. He definitely brought balance to the force, alright...he wiped out the jedi and brought them essentially on par with the sith. I might be stating the obvious here, but to me it goes to show the hubris and arrogance of the council (or maybe just Qui-gon) to think that bringing balance to the force meant to wipe out the sith and have the council stay in power.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Hyena wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:47 am I always thought the "balance to the force" thing was actually a misunderstanding of the jedi council. He definitely brought balance to the force, alright...he wiped out the jedi and brought them essentially on par with the sith. I might be stating the obvious here, but to me it goes to show the hubris and arrogance of the council (or maybe just Qui-gon) to think that bringing balance to the force meant to wipe out the sith and have the council stay in power.
I thought the idea was that the Qui-gon’s mistake was thinking it was Anakin, when it was actually Luke that would bring balance to the force.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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But then Palpy survived or regenerated or whatever anyway. :lol:

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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Well Luke did it by way of Butterfly Effect throughout Ep7-9
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by El Guapo »

Well, the sequel trilogy was the chance to really flesh out the "balance of the force" concept, but that wound up as a disorganized shitshow because they decided to make Episode 7 a reboot movie, and then switched directors for 8 to someone who did not want to do a reboot trilogy.
Last edited by El Guapo on Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Sshush!

Balance was restored and we have Qui-gon’s foresight to thank for it!
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Lol... thank goodness there will never be another dark jedi again.

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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Too bad they didn't proceed with the more mature themes found in The Last Jedi. But honestly, Star Wars isn't really supposed to be anything more than a science fiction/fantasy franchise without any real nuance. So tonally, it probably wouldn't have worked.

...although a spin off series about illegal gilk labs a la Breaking Bad would have been cool. Better Call Jar Jar?
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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As I've mentioned, I'm not really a hardcore SW person, so forgive my ignorance. Can anyone explain the giant mushroom helmets the younglings are wearing in all the flashbacks? Every time I see them I think of Dark Helmet and that's probably not what they're going for.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by hepcat »

Cycle safety has been a focus of Star Wars for a while now. It's a really odd thing to focus on, but I guess it's a public service.

Also, be careful when complaining. We're only ever one complaint away from someone on the writing staff getting upset and bringing the Cyber Newsies to this show in an act of spite.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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I wonder about the sparring with live lightsabers between Obi-Wan and Anakin. One slight miscalculation and you lose an arm. Or worse.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:06 am Yeah yeah. ‘If you strike me down I become more powerful’

Did that really happen? Did he become more powerful?
This being the same conversation in which 'Darth' was treated as a first name.
Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:50 am
Hyena wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:47 am I always thought the "balance to the force" thing was actually a misunderstanding of the jedi council. He definitely brought balance to the force, alright...he wiped out the jedi and brought them essentially on par with the sith. I might be stating the obvious here, but to me it goes to show the hubris and arrogance of the council (or maybe just Qui-gon) to think that bringing balance to the force meant to wipe out the sith and have the council stay in power.
I thought the idea was that the Qui-gon’s mistake was thinking it was Anakin, when it was actually Luke that would bring balance to the force.
Except that it wasn't Luke, either.
Spoiler:
It was Rey. All 'light side' is no more balanced than 'all dark side', and that was where the Sith and the Jedi both failed - balance would require a completely different approach, which is what ended up being... hinted at? in the last trilogy.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:55 pm As I've mentioned, I'm not really a hardcore SW person, so forgive my ignorance. Can anyone explain the giant mushroom helmets the younglings are wearing in all the flashbacks? Every time I see them I think of Dark Helmet and that's probably not what they're going for.
You know how in the original movie, Obi-Wan has Luke put a helmet on with a blast shield that blocks his vision? He was improvising to make one of those youngling training helmets. The big goofy helmets can be tipped forward to block the trainees' vision. They also reduce the risk of head injury when space bicycling.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Smoove_B »

Oh wow, I didn't realize that (the connection back to that scene with Luke). That's pretty cool, actually. They still look goofy as hell but I appreciate the lore. Thanks!
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:24 pm
Except that it wasn't Luke, either.
Spoiler:
It was Rey. All 'light side' is no more balanced than 'all dark side', and that was where the Sith and the Jedi both failed - balance would require a completely different approach, which is what ended up being... hinted at? in the last trilogy.
I think my point stands (or maybe you missed my 2nd post) - no matter 2nd or 3rd trilogy, one could argue none of it would have or could have happened without qui.

And my point was to be sorta sarcastic at how many generations it eventually took (the death toll, etc), and then if we go to the final trilogy (in my other post) it needs to be then said that Rey couldn’t have happened without Luke/Anakin’s actions and backdrop.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:24 pm This being the same conversation in which 'Darth' was treated as a first name.
lol - I never realized/had thought of it like that, but I'm sure I did assume it was his first name when I first played around with my little Darth Vader figure...
Then sometime when Darth Sidious was a thing it struck me that it must be a title - and I just corrected myself. I wonder when/if that was actually changed. Interesting.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:48 pm Oh wow, I didn't realize that (the connection back to that scene with Luke). That's pretty cool, actually. They still look goofy as hell but I appreciate the lore. Thanks!
Also, I would think they are designed to handle all younglings - not just the human noggin.

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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:06 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:24 pm This being the same conversation in which 'Darth' was treated as a first name.
lol - I never realized/had thought of it like that, but I'm sure I did assume it was his first name when I first played around with my little Darth Vader figure...
Then sometime when Darth Sidious was a thing it struck me that it must be a title - and I just corrected myself. I wonder when/if that was actually changed. Interesting.
A lot of the "bigger picture" stuff that we consider to be the core of the Star Wars canon did not exist until Empire. Darth was Vader's first name. Luke and Leia were not siblings, nor were they "Darth's" kids. My understanding is that when their "it'll never sell" movie exploded in popularity, they went back and started adding that stuff in, heedless of some lines here and there that stopped making sense. The rest of the 'foreshadowing' was simply stuff that later films played off of rather than the original intention. In fact, I remembering hearing that an early draft of Empire had both Vader and Anakin in it separately.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:07 pm
Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:06 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:24 pm This being the same conversation in which 'Darth' was treated as a first name.
lol - I never realized/had thought of it like that, but I'm sure I did assume it was his first name when I first played around with my little Darth Vader figure...
Then sometime when Darth Sidious was a thing it struck me that it must be a title - and I just corrected myself. I wonder when/if that was actually changed. Interesting.
A lot of the "bigger picture" stuff that we consider to be the core of the Star Wars canon did not exist until Empire. Darth was Vader's first name. Luke and Leia were not siblings, nor were they "Darth's" kids. My understanding is that when their "it'll never sell" movie exploded in popularity, they went back and started adding that stuff in, heedless of some lines here and there that stopped making sense. The rest of the 'foreshadowing' was simply stuff that later films played off of rather than the original intention. In fact, I remembering hearing that an early draft of Empire had both Vader and Anakin in it separately.
Yep.

I mean - it's fairly obvious the 'general lore' that Star Wars Ep IV eluded to was completely morphed/abandoned when the story was then expanded upon after theatrical success.

We all know full well that Obi-wan was actually meant to be buddies with Luke's dead father and that it wasn't the same person as Darth Vader. And that this asshole Darth Vader was the one that did him in not in some ridiculously convoluted poetic sense that a person can change so much that you don't recognize them anymore, he actually killed Luke's father/Obi-wan's buddy.

We know full well that Luke and Leia were totally a pair. They were certainly not written to be siblings.

I was 7yo for Ep4, 10yo for Ep5, and 13yo for Ep6. Almost all I did was 'play star wars' my entire childhood. I had to incorporate these monstrous changes into my playtime. 10 and 11yo me had to re-write these truths into my head-canon based on hundreds of hours of personal fan-fiction I'd developed after Ep4.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Unagi »

Curious if anyone has any general predictions for the last episode of Obi-Wan?


Will they establish the 'Old Ben' name?

Will they even go back to Tatooine?

Will they write in an explanation for why Leia, in Star Wars Ep4, doesn't record her R2D2 message to Obi-wan with any reference to these adventures and instead tries to remind Obi-wan that he served with her father during the Clone Wars?

And some questions that I'll spoiler to be safe for those that aren't caught up in the series...
Spoiler:
Assuming we pick up with Reva still in the picture...
Will Reva sacrifice herself in order to hide her knowledge of Anakin's two kids?
Will Reva be killed by Obi-Wan in order to hide her knowledge of the Anakin's kids?

If Reva is not in the next episode, I assume they have another series 'in the hopes' that would be about what Reva does with the knowledge of Luke on Tatooine?
Also, I don't know why - but I was sorta thinking that door-droid outside Obi-Wan's cave on Tatooine was actually a buried R2D2. Which I also wonder if I'm being a fool about. I just kinda expected to see R2D2 in this.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:06 pm Will they write in an explanation for why Leia, in Star Wars Ep4, doesn't record her R2D2 message to Obi-wan with any reference to these adventures and instead tries to remind Obi-wan that he served with her father during the Clone Wars?
As recorded, I can accept Leia's recorded message as a fairly formal address to someone she hasn't seen in a couple of decades. It sort of makes sense if the adventure presented in this series is their only point of contact until Ep IV. The deeper connection can go unstated between them.

What seems more difficult to accept is Leia's attitude towards Kenobi's death on the Death Star. IIRC, Leia and Kenobi have no scenes together, but she does witness his death at the hands of Darth Vader just before escaping on the Millennium Falcon. It seems like that would be something that affected her personally more than just making her comfort Luke. (She met Luke just an hour ago, but she has known of Kenobi and Vader her whole life.)
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:06 pm Also, I don't know why - but I was sorta thinking that door-droid outside Obi-Wan's cave on Tatooine was actually a buried R2D2. Which I also wonder if I'm being a fool about. I just kinda expected to see R2D2 in this.
I guess canonically R2D2 and C3PO are in the service of the Organa family at this point. Presumably they were both handed over with baby Leia, and we won't see them again until the Tantive IV.

Of course Star Wars being Star Wars, it's not impossible that the droids shuttle back and forth between the main characters on a weekly basis.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Holman wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:26 pm
Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:06 pm Will they write in an explanation for why Leia, in Star Wars Ep4, doesn't record her R2D2 message to Obi-wan with any reference to these adventures and instead tries to remind Obi-wan that he served with her father during the Clone Wars?
As recorded, I can accept Leia's recorded message as a fairly formal address to someone she hasn't seen in a couple of decades. It sort of makes sense if the adventure presented in this series is their only point of contact until Ep IV. The deeper connection can go unstated between them.
I mean I can accept the recording too, but I must say it would really have made more sense if she had said something like "You saved me from Darth Vader once before if you will recall..." but sure - she could go with the connection her dad with him that was way before that. Obviously, this is being told in reverse and I don't actually expect Episode 4 to have included this... I just wonder if anyone else feels these authors may try and give some 'cover' to that message before we part ways here.

I assume you do not predict they will address it.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Holman wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:26 pm What seems more difficult to accept is Leia's attitude towards Kenobi's death on the Death Star. IIRC, Leia and Kenobi have no scenes together, but she does witness his death at the hands of Darth Vader just before escaping on the Millennium Falcon. It seems like that would be something that affected her personally more than just making her comfort Luke. (She met Luke just an hour ago, but she has known of Kenobi and Vader her whole life.)
Spot on.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Holman wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:30 pm
Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:06 pm Also, I don't know why - but I was sorta thinking that door-droid outside Obi-Wan's cave on Tatooine was actually a buried R2D2. Which I also wonder if I'm being a fool about. I just kinda expected to see R2D2 in this.
I guess canonically R2D2 and C3PO are in the service of the Organa family at this point. Presumably they were both handed over with baby Leia, and we won't see them again until the Tantive IV.

Of course Star Wars being Star Wars, it's not impossible that the droids shuttle back and forth between the main characters on a weekly basis.
(I think you are right in the time-line assumption of their ownership roughly)

I don't recall - but remind me if I am wrong - I don't think we saw any sign of them on-planet at the start of the series, right?
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Anyhow, (thanks for humoring me) I'm torn... This is R2's periscope in ESB:
Enlarge Image

OK at 15:30 - 15:40 into the first episode of Obi-Wan, one can see the periscope of Obi-wan's door droid. And, it's not 100% different. It's actually pretty damn close to the above periscope.

Most specifically Obi-wan's droid has the blue metal 'top' above the periscope just like R2, and it's clearly a hemispherical 'cut out' of a domed top. IMO.
Also, two round 'cheek' lights with one center squared-off light.



Still, I'm probably wrong about that. But it would be fun to be right.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by wonderpug »

Holman wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:26 pm What seems more difficult to accept is Leia's attitude towards Kenobi's death on the Death Star. IIRC, Leia and Kenobi have no scenes together, but she does witness his death at the hands of Darth Vader just before escaping on the Millennium Falcon. It seems like that would be something that affected her personally more than just making her comfort Luke. (She met Luke just an hour ago, but she has known of Kenobi and Vader her whole life.)
In Force Awakens, Leia senses that Han died and she walks right past Chewie to give Rey a hug. She's now canonically bad at interpersonal relationships as they relate to loss and grief. (Or possibly the writers are consistently bad at maintaining continuity.)
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

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wonderpug wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:00 am
Holman wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:26 pm What seems more difficult to accept is Leia's attitude towards Kenobi's death on the Death Star. IIRC, Leia and Kenobi have no scenes together, but she does witness his death at the hands of Darth Vader just before escaping on the Millennium Falcon. It seems like that would be something that affected her personally more than just making her comfort Luke. (She met Luke just an hour ago, but she has known of Kenobi and Vader her whole life.)
In Force Awakens, Leia senses that Han died and she walks right past Chewie to give Rey a hug. She's now canonically bad at interpersonal relationships as they relate to loss and grief. (Or possibly the writers are consistently bad at maintaining continuity.)
Funny you mention that. I actually really liked that movie, but I also specifically remember seeing that the first time and thinking WTF?!? It pulled me right out of the movie and into the minds of what kind of twisted writer would make that kind of emotionally dead goof. :P NO one in the writers' room caught that, or even as they acted it out on set?? Just weird!
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Blackhawk »

She has had to deal with a lot of loss - about two billion people. She's also a trained diplomat (wasn't she?) who dedicated her lift to serving others. I can certainly see her suppressing her own grief in order to support others.

Or at least that's how I justify how she reacts.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Carpet_pissr »

IIRC it seemed like they filmed it to show her intentionally snub poor Chewie (that could be my brain filling in blanks though). Maybe there's a SW Universe understood rule:

SW Protocol 144.78.990: Stay 10 feet away (min) from an actively, overtly grieving Wookie. :D
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Unagi »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:04 pm IIRC it seemed like they filmed it to show her intentionally snub poor Chewie (that could be my brain filling in blanks though). Maybe there's a SW Universe understood rule:

SW Protocol 144.78.990: Stay 10 feet away (min) from an actively, overtly grieving Wookie. :D
“Let the Wookiee win …”
“Let the Wookiee drive…”
“Let the Wookiee grieve…”

There is probably a whole list of “Let the Wookiee ___” phrases the galaxy uses to stay safe.

:D
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Unagi
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Unagi »

Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:40 pm
I don't recall - but remind me if I am wrong - I don't think we saw any sign of them on-planet at the start of the series, right?
It looks like there was C-3PO in the beginning, with Leia at home.
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Sudy
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Sudy »

I assumed that was a different protocol droid.

If they put C-3PO in one of these series he deserves to be the star.

Edit: Damn it. This just reminded me what incredible bullshit it is that baby Anakin built C-3PO. I won't let go. I think that might actually be the moment I threw in the towel on Phantom Menace. I can imagine George sitting at his typewriter in his underwear when that dismal lightbulb turned on.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
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Skinypupy
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Skinypupy »

Watched the first three episodes with the kids this afternoon. Three initial thoughts:

1. I absolutely love watching McGregor step back into Obi Wan's shoes. He does such an amazing job. It's weird to think that when someone mentions Obi Wan now, my first thought is of McGregor and not Guinness. Granted he's had lots more screen time, but it's not easy to take a character that iconic and truly make it your own.

2. The Inquisitors are...underwhelming. I know they're supposed to be these super-badassess, but they're just kind of meh.

3. The kid doesn't come across as being even close to ten years old. She seems six, maybe seven tops. When Obi Wan asked "How old are you?" and she chirped "I'm ten!", all three of my kids said "yeah, right". Maybe it's just because I have two 9 year olds in my house right now, but she comes across as way younger (and yes, I know the actress playing her is, in fact, ten).

The show isn't hugely compelling yet but I'm interested enough (and enjoy watching McGregor enough) to keep watching.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
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Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi

Post by Holman »

Unagi wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:41 pm
Unagi wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:40 pm
I don't recall - but remind me if I am wrong - I don't think we saw any sign of them on-planet at the start of the series, right?
It looks like there was C-3PO in the beginning, with Leia at home.
I have no time to look back, but I feel like I remember seeing a gold and a silver protocol droid in that Alderaan party scene. One of them speaks in a female voice and (I thiiiiink) it was the gold one.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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