Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

stessier wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:34 am
Zaxxon wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:05 am Whelp, we're heading out on a ~5,000-mile road trip today. This will almost double our farthest prior trip. We're mainly sticking to interstates this time, but the sheer distance has me a little nervous--especially since one tire is patched after having taken a nail over the holiday weekend.

Fingers crossed!
Egads, good luck! Is this in the Model X? And how many days will you be gone? Driving 1200 miles over 3 days made me realize I'm getting way too old for this. :D
Yep, the X. 15 days. I'm also older than I used to be, which makes me appreciate the charge stops while 20-year-old me might have been annoyed.

We're 1,000 miles in. So far, so good other than a few hours of heavy rain. One close call in Salina, KS at one of those older 6-stall V2 Superchargers. We got spot #6 when we arrived, and they all were in use virtually the whole time we were there. No one had to wait, but the charge rate was lower than ideal. Tesla has augmented the old Topeka station with a nearby 12-stall V3, but they still need to do the same for Salina.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Freyland »

stessier wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:32 am
Freyland wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:44 pm Garage
Mostly local to 40 minute drives, but sometimes I get out
Ideally fit 4 (but there are 5 of us)
Budget is good, but not luxury-car good

Thank you
I own a 2022 Mach-E Premium ER (extended range) and a 2019 Premium Bolt. The Mach-E has a 300 mile range on a 91 kWh battery while the Bolt comes in at 260 miles on a 66 kWh battery (after the battery recall was completed) according to the EPA. The Mach-E max charge rate is around 150 kW while the Bolt is 50 kW. Both claim 10-80% charging in 40 minutes when connected to the appropriate DC fast charger. I've never taken the Bolt on a trip that required fast charging and haven't had an issue (outside of the battery recall) in 55k miles. We just got back from a 2500 mile road trip in the Mach-E with 4 people for 2 weeks and while it was a bit cramped due to our excessive (imo) packing, it was doable and no one complained.

After all that, though, if I were shopping today, I think I'd be targeting the Ioniq 5. It can take advantage of the full speed of 350 kW chargers going from 10-80% in 18 minutes making long road trips that much easier. It has essentially the same cargo space as the Mach-E (although no frunk). What I really like is that is has a heads-up display in addition to some well laid out screens. It is only rated for 256 miles by the EPA, but I have no trouble with that around town and the added charging capabilities would quickly make up for it on any long trip. It starts right around 50k, still qualifies for the full $7500 federal tax credit, and at least around here, is actually available for sale. If you were looking at a Mach-E, unless you were willing to go for a Select model with lesser range, you're looking at a 2023 and most likely a 9 month wait...at which point the tax credit will likely be in the phase out period (meaning something less than the full amount).

The best deal, though, is probably a Bolt EUV. At least around here, after incentives you can get a Premium for right around $32k and an LT around $28k. While road trips are possible in it, cargo space is quite limited and I'm not sure anything more than a weekend away would really work for more than 1 person. If you only want to use it as an around town car, though, I'm not sure it can be beat.

And if you want to completely break the bank, look at the Porsche Taycan Turbo. :)
Thank you! Availability around here is poor, sadly.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

Be nice if true (from July 8th).

Tesla to Expand Supercharger Network to other EVs by the end of 2022
Tesla plans to begin opening its Supercharger network to other electric vehicles by the end of the year, according to a White House memo that shared the automaker’s plans.

...

“Later this year, Tesla will begin production of new Supercharger equipment that will enable non-Tesla EV drivers in North America to use Tesla Superchargers,” according to the memo.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by coopasonic »

stessier wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:49 am Be nice if true (from July 8th).
Expect adapters to show up in the Tesla store for slightly less than FSD. :P
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

Way more coming after the trip is over, but today was fun. ~1850 miles in, and today we stopped at the downtown Atlanta Supercharger. 30 stalls, 29 of which were operational. 21 in use. Definitely a neat experience. A car coming or going every minute, just like a gas station.

I have used Kettlenan City, which has more stations, but that was in 2019 and it was sparsely used at that time. This was something else.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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Ford aiming to ramp to 600k BEVs/year by end of next year.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/21/2327 ... ing-mach-e
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by malchior »

It was very interesting to see that Ford is also expanding their offerings to include LiFePO4 based battery packs. Improvements in batteries are coming fast now. We have a really exciting development from CATL (blurb here). They are claiming they've improved on LiFePO4 and might spin up production on something they are calling Lithium Manganese Iron Phosphate. LiMnFePO4 perhaps? In any case, it sounds like it'll have many advantages that LiFePO4 has compared to NMC: cheap, stable, and potentially longer lifespan. And eliminates the key weakness of lower energy density / kg.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

Yeah, it's interesting to see multiple manufacturers diversifying battery chemistries across their product lines. Which is also necessary right now given supply constraints, but has advantages based on specific product needs, too.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Pyperkub »

Question - why do there seem to be zero BEV minivans?

It seems to me that the soccer mom would be the ideal use case.

Also, any good Rivian R1S reports? Everything seems to be the truck
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by malchior »

This is back of the envelope market analysis but it makes some sense to me why there isn't a dedicated EV minivan. The entire EV market is essentially still built around the class being a luxury vehicle. Most manufacturers of EVs Tesla, Ford, Rivian, etc. are trying to peel off customers in the high-end market. It's still early adoption technology, it's expensive, and even the 'everyman' Model 3 became a luxury line in the end.

The minivan market doesn't really have a 'luxury' market as the mainstream ones are very competitive but expensive. There isn't headspace price wise. That being said, Tesla is aware of the opportunity which is why the Model Y has a 3rd row option which isn't really usable by the average adult. And the Model X also serves that segment to some extent and has many of the minivan features.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by geezer »

malchior wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:54 pm This is back of the envelope market analysis but it makes some sense to me why there isn't a dedicated EV minivan. The entire EV market is essentially still built around the class being a luxury vehicle. Most manufacturers of EVs Tesla, Ford, Rivian, etc. are trying to peel off customers in the high-end market. It's still early adoption technology, it's expensive, and even the 'everyman' Model 3 became a luxury line in the end.

The minivan market doesn't really have a 'luxury' market as the mainstream ones are very competitive but expensive. There isn't headspace price wise. That being said, Tesla is aware of the opportunity which is why the Model Y has a 3rd row option which isn't really usable by the average adult. And the Model X also serves that segment to some extent and has many of the minivan features.
Is this close enough? I have zero use for a minivan but I'd drive it.

On another topic, I picked up a Jeep Wrangler 4xe a few months ago. The electric only range is pathetic (25 miles), but it's actually enough for what I need day to day (usually) and if I need to go on a longer trip, the gas engine works fine. (So far I've gone over 1000 miles on 1.5 tanks of gas, and it's a pretty small tank.)
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Pyperkub »

Part of the mini van thing is probably that Toyota seems to be the top brand out there, and we all know how dreadful they are at BEV.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

A Toyota Sienna starts at $35k and goes well above $50k.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

Senate Deal Includes EV Tax Credits Sought by Tesla, Toyota
A breakthrough deal between senators Chuck Schumer and Joe Manchin includes the extension of a popular consumer tax credit for the purchase of electric vehicles, a big win for EV makers like General Motors Co., Tesla Inc. and Toyota Motor Co.

The credit is included in a broader legislative package that revives key portions of President Joe Biden’s domestic political agenda and contains about $369 billion on climate and energy spending.

It will allow carmakers to continue offering $7,500 in tax credits for the purchase of new “clean cars” with some conditions: they will need to be built with minerals that are extracted or processed in a country the US has a free trade agreement with, and have a battery that includes a large percentage of components that were manufactured or assembled in North America.
If this goes through, a new Bolt would be in the low $20k.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

At this point I'll believe it when it's signed by Biden. I will say the credit rules I'm this bill make far more sense than the existing credit or the prior bills.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by coopasonic »

stessier wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:35 am If this goes through, a new Bolt would be in the low $20k.
I am guessing the term means tested means no benefit for me. :P Yeah, I know it's a sad thing to complain about and my next car will be a BEV regardless so it really doesn't matter but wahhh.

Edit: I spoke too soon. $300k joint income limit. Yay :D
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by LordMortis »

stessier wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:35 am If this goes through, a new Bolt would be in the low $20k.
How well does it charge on 110? :think:
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:45 am
stessier wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:35 am If this goes through, a new Bolt would be in the low $20k.
How well does it charge on 110? :think:
Perfectly fine. :)
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:45 am
stessier wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:35 am If this goes through, a new Bolt would be in the low $20k.
How well does it charge on 110? :think:
How far do you drive between charges?

All BEVs get about 1-1.5 kW per hour on 110. The battery is 66 kWh. ABC is the best reminder for people using 110 - Always Be Charging.

The other option is to use 110 most of the time and if you can't keep up with your usage, use a fast charger once a week or month or whatever to catch up and reset. I recall you are near Dearborn - there are 50kW chargers (which is all the Bolt can take) near there according to PlugShare.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by LordMortis »

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:50 am
LordMortis wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:45 am
stessier wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:35 am If this goes through, a new Bolt would be in the low $20k.
How well does it charge on 110? :think:
Perfectly fine. :)
That could happen, then, maybe, depending on what I get for the low 20s. I still prefer PHEV for my purposes but in the low 20s, if the charging network is good and they iron out the kinks, I'm can deal with slow charging, I think, especially as I want a small car. :pop: I haven't owned a Chevy, since I briefly had a PoS $300 Malibu in 1990.
stessier wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:53 am How far do you drive between charges?

All BEVs get about 1-1.5 kW per hour on 110. The battery is 66 kWh. ABC is the best reminder for people using 110 - Always Be Charging.

The other option is to use 110 most of the time and if you can't keep up with your usage, use a fast charger once a week or month or whatever to catch up and reset. I recall you are near Dearborn - there are 50kW chargers (which is all the Bolt can take) near there according to PlugShare.
What does that equate to in driving though? If it charges for 12 hours a day or 12KW, where does that leave me? There will be most days where it charges 20-24 hours but then there might be a week or two in a row where It doesn't sit in the garage but 12 hours a day.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:56 am
stessier wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:53 am How far do you drive between charges?

All BEVs get about 1-1.5 kW per hour on 110. The battery is 66 kWh. ABC is the best reminder for people using 110 - Always Be Charging.

The other option is to use 110 most of the time and if you can't keep up with your usage, use a fast charger once a week or month or whatever to catch up and reset. I recall you are near Dearborn - there are 50kW chargers (which is all the Bolt can take) near there according to PlugShare.
What does that equate to in driving though? If it charges for 12 hours a day or 12KW, where does that leave me? There will be most days where it charges 20-24 hours but then there might be a week or two in a row where It doesn't sit in the garage but 12 hours a day.
That's a tricky question as it depends on a number of factors such as Temperature, Speed, Wind, etc.

I live in SC - so mostly warm weather - and do exclusively driving around town (<50mph). My car has averaged 4.5 miles/kWh over it's lifetime (55k+ miles). During winter cold, the worst I've seen is 3 miles/kWh - but our cold spells aren't as long as MI. During the summer my best has been 5.6 miles/kWh. The EPA estimates 260 miles from the 66 kWh battery - which suggests 3.9 miles/kWh.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

A good rule of thumb is 3-4 miles of range added for every hour charged on 120V. If you'll average 14 hours/night, 40-55 miles/day would be recovered. The days where it sits will obviously recover much more.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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...and if you are driving longer distances than 120 charging would support, you should have opportunities to use faster public chargers along the way.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by LordMortis »

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:12 am A good rule of thumb is 3-4 miles of range added for every hour charged on 120V. If you'll average 14 hours/night, 40-55 miles/day would be recovered. The days where it sits will obviously recover much more.
From Stess post, I should count on 3. I want to know worst case scenario, as that is what counts. Best case is just happy icing. Worst case is what I have to face when the time comes. 12 x 3 = 36 miles most days, which is about what I was looking for in PHEV, so that's good, as charging will do better than this most of time. It's not that uncommon for me to not drive for a week at a time. So low 20s, if it proves to look reliable, and not literally painfully uncomfortable, is worth putting it on my radar.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by TheMix »

We saw a Rivian in the wild the other day. Sadly it was on the highway and we were in the process of exiting. But it did look pretty nice. It seemed smaller than I expected. Which isn't a bad thing. I don't really need something as big as my F150.

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

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TheMix wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:26 am We saw a Rivian in the wild the other day. Sadly it was on the highway and we were in the process of exiting. But it did look pretty nice. It seemed smaller than I expected. Which isn't a bad thing. I don't really need something as big as my F150.
Do they count as in the wild when you drive past their technical center a couple of times a month? Oddly enough I've yet to see a 150 in the wild. Aside from that, I've seen them all, I think, except for maybe a few of the more esoteric translpants. The Rivians are hard to miss. They really do have a unique look for truck and it's not a bad unique.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by coopasonic »

The latest issue of Motor Trend was the new cars issue and it was pretty much all electrics and hybrids. The flood continues and after I bought the Tesla I was going to cancel my Motor trend sub, the only magazine I still get, but if they are going to cover all the BEVs, I'm not mad I accidentally let it auto-renew.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by em2nought »

stessier wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:51 pm A Toyota Sienna starts at $35k and goes well above $50k.
A used 2008 Sienna with 125,000 miles cost me $4,000 last year, and I'm expecting it to last me at least ten years.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

em2nought wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:02 pm
stessier wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:51 pm A Toyota Sienna starts at $35k and goes well above $50k.
A used 2008 Sienna with 125,000 miles cost me $4,000 last year, and I'm expecting it to last me at least ten years.
Congrats and good luck!
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Pyperkub »

em2nought wrote:
stessier wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:51 pm A Toyota Sienna starts at $35k and goes well above $50k.
A used 2008 Sienna with 125,000 miles cost me $4,000 last year, and I'm expecting it to last me at least ten years.
Last year? Good job! Used car prices were through the roof then. Not sure where they are now.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

Road trip complete!

Enlarge Image

Miles: 5,124
States: 12
Time: 15 days
Family visited: 4
Nat'l Park Sites: 9
Energy consumed: 2,100 kWh*
Gasoline equivalent: 62.3 gallons
MPGe: 82
Energy cost: ~$600
Savings vs gas of similar SUV-sized vehicle: ~$500 (I used 22 mpg @ $4.75/gal)
Average daily road charge time: 1.15 hours (low 0, high 2.7)
Percentage of charge time spent doing things we'd have stopped for anyway (dog walks, meals, bio breaks): ~70%
Net time cost: ~21 min/day
%age of that delay spent watching Iron Chef on Netflix via the car's screen: 100
Number of charging issues encountered: 0**

This was a really fun trip. When planning out a 5k mile trip, I was a little unsure of how it'd go--whether the wife/kids/dogs would get annoyed at charge stops, whether I had jinxed things by playing up the Supercharger network prior to the trip, whether my patched tire would hold, random other issue crop up, etc. But everything went more or less according to plan. The family actually commented a couple of times that the charging stops were not an issue for them (average Supercharge stop time was 28.9 minutes).

Our net speed (including all traffic jams, stop-and-go park roads, etc) was 60 mph. Interstate speeds averaged ~82 mph.

I'm now up to 138 unique Supercharger locations visited, across 24 states and 5 years. 25 new stations on this trip. Interesting (to me) sub stat: we pulled 1,662 kWh from Superchargers, and 272 kWh from travel charges while we slept. 86% Superchargers, 14% overnight. Those included 2 stops with L2 charging @ 11 kW, and the rest on standard 120V/15A outlets.

Interesting (again, to me) sub-sub charging stat: V3 Superchargers are so much better than V2. This isn't news, but on a trip this large it really became apparent. V2 vs V3 when the station isn't busy (and on my older X car capped at 200 kW but really mostly charging at 150 kW and below) isn't that stark, but when the stations are busy it's big. V2 splits 150 kW across pairs of stalls, so a busy station will see the effective max rate capped often. V3 splits something like 800 kW across four stalls, meaning it's exceedingly rare to have any current Tesla capped even at a fully-utilized station--and if they are maxed out, the capping is less drastic and for a shorter period. It'll be interesting to see the specs on V4 stalls when they begin to pop up later this year. V3 already outnumbers V2 in the wild, but I'm blessed/cursed that I70 through Colorado and Kansas was one of the first routes completed, so we still have a lot of V2 stations (many of which have since been augmented with V3 stalls).

* - Per the in-car trip meter, 1,857 kWh were used. According to TeslaFi, it's 1,978 kWh. The actual energy entering the vehicle over the past 30 days was 2,269 kWh. That includes not just battery energy used to propel the vehicle, but charge losses, sentry/preconditioning/Dog mode usage, etc. Also a few smaller charges prior to the road trip. I used 2,100 as I think that's a fair estimate of the 'true' energy use for the trip.
** - One station was a little slower than expected; not sure why--perhaps due to the 100+F temps. One other was full when we arrived--we were the 10th car for an 8-stall station. But we were charging within 2-3 minutes, so it wasn't bad.

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by The Meal »

Wow, that looks like an amazing trip! If I could handle the masses, I've long thought a National Park themed trip would be pretty cool. I just need to double my yearly vacation allotment.

I haven't heard about what the plans are for >250 kW chargers. What's coming next?

Thanks for sharing with us. Any good anecdotes from the travel?
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

The Meal wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:26 am Wow, that looks like an amazing trip! If I could handle the masses, I've long thought a National Park themed trip would be pretty cool. I just need to double my yearly vacation allotment.
It was great. We're already planning next summer's, which is stacking up to be similar mileage. Northeast this time.
I haven't heard about what the plans are for >250 kW chargers. What's coming next?
Everything's rumor at this point, but what I've heard is V3 will be software-unlocked to 300 or 350 kW peaks once there are Teslas that will take that.
Re: V4, there may (likely will be) a higher peak, and possibly a built-in CCS adapter to more easily support non-Teslas. Supposedly some V4 stations will pop up in 2022, but who knows?
Thanks for sharing with us. Any good anecdotes from the travel?
Tuskeegee Airmen NHS and Birmingham Civil Rights NM were both pretty powerful. Pea Ridge National Military Park in NW Arkansas was unexpectedly very good (and much larger than I would have guessed).

Everglades was awesome, but we only did the western portion. I need to get back there to do the more well-known sections.

As far as BEV-specific anecdotes not mentioned in my original post, the first thing that comes to mind is that we saw a friggin' ton of them. Far more than on prior road trips, and maybe 97% Teslas with a couple of Bolts and Mustangs sprinkled in. That's as expected, I guess, but I didn't expect to see so many in Alabama/Mississippi/Arkansas/Tennessee as I did. Florida was off the charts which is not surprising. Did not catch any Rivians or F-150 Lightnings on this trip.

Also neat was seeing how many Targets now have Superchargers. It seems they're in some sort of agreement similar to what Hy-Vee, Meijer, and Kum-and-Go have going on. Target also puts 2-4 Chargepoint L2 chargers at each location, which is cool for regular Target shoppers.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

Meanwhile, the launch of Toyota's first BEV is going about as well as expected, but for very unexpected reasons...



On the bright side, they appear to be doing what GM would not when dealing with an extended 'don't use your car as it was sold to be used' scenario: offer hard cash and/or to buy them back without needing to individually plead your case.

Somewhat humorous is this ad that was served by Twitter right under the recall tweet:

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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:04 am On the bright side, they appear to be doing what GM would not when dealing with an extended 'don't use your car as it was sold to be used' scenario: offer hard cash and/or to buy them back without needing to individually plead your case.
The differences between 2,600 and 141,000 and cars that had been around for 3+ years vs 3+ months might have something to do with it.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

stessier wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:08 am
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:04 am On the bright side, they appear to be doing what GM would not when dealing with an extended 'don't use your car as it was sold to be used' scenario: offer hard cash and/or to buy them back without needing to individually plead your case.
The differences between 2,600 and 141,000 and cars that had been around for 3+ years vs 3+ months might have something to do with it.
Absolutely, but that's not the customer's problem. Also impacts a buyback but not compensation--were all Bolt owners offered cash and fuel costs 30 days after the brouhaha started?
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by stessier »

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:10 am
stessier wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:08 am
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:04 am On the bright side, they appear to be doing what GM would not when dealing with an extended 'don't use your car as it was sold to be used' scenario: offer hard cash and/or to buy them back without needing to individually plead your case.
The differences between 2,600 and 141,000 and cars that had been around for 3+ years vs 3+ months might have something to do with it.
Absolutely, but that's not the customer's problem. Also impacts a buyback but not compensation--were all Bolt owners offered cash and fuel costs 30 days after the brouhaha started?
They were not, but why wouldn't the total value impact compensation? If it was the same $5000, you're talking $705 million vs Toyota's $13 million. I'm not saying the Bolt thing couldn't have been done better, but I don't fault them for not giving everyone a gold package.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by coopasonic »

In the end, my friend at work got a pretty good deal from Chevy. He ended up swapping his 2018 Bolt for a loaded 2022 with $1500 out of pocket... less a $2500 incentive from Texas on the EV for a net gain of $1k on top of the much nicer car.
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

stessier wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:25 am
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:10 am
stessier wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:08 am
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:04 am On the bright side, they appear to be doing what GM would not when dealing with an extended 'don't use your car as it was sold to be used' scenario: offer hard cash and/or to buy them back without needing to individually plead your case.
The differences between 2,600 and 141,000 and cars that had been around for 3+ years vs 3+ months might have something to do with it.
Absolutely, but that's not the customer's problem. Also impacts a buyback but not compensation--were all Bolt owners offered cash and fuel costs 30 days after the brouhaha started?
They were not, but why wouldn't the total value impact compensation? If it was the same $5000, you're talking $705 million vs Toyota's $13 million. I'm not saying the Bolt thing couldn't have been done better, but I don't fault them for not giving everyone a gold package.
I'm not talking about the specific amounts but rather that $0 was offered. That's unacceptable in both of these scenarios. Whether or not it's a burden on GM or Toyota, or on one relatively more than the other, is beside the point. All's I'm pointing out is that one of these OEMs did the right thing, while the other did not.

I agree with you that in the Bolt's case, $5k would have been high for 30 days in. Of course the Bolt one also went on much longer, so who knows what would have been fair--far greater than $0, though
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Re: Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

Post by Zaxxon »

coopasonic wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:30 am In the end, my friend at work got a pretty good deal from Chevy. He ended up swapping his 2018 Bolt for a loaded 2022 with $1500 out of pocket... less a $2500 incentive from Texas on the EV for a net gain of $1k on top of the much nicer car.
That's more like it. What was involved in obtaining that deal?
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