The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[The Meal]

I winder if the mask issue in the US is really deeply rooted in the fact that the majority of us are actually just not intetested in being polite.

Sounds to me like your brain is working just fine.

There's one ideology which is looking for the benefit of the masses and another which is focused on selfishness.

[LordMortis]

There's one ideology which is looking for the benefit of the masses and another which is focused on selfishness.

And the Abraham Lincoln ideology that benefiting the masses is focusing on selfishness.

first place I could find it

https://abecollier.medium.com/maybe-its ... 097b6ece45

“Mr. Lincoln once remarked to a fellow-passenger on an old-time mud-catch that all men were prompted by selfishness in doing good. His fellow-passenger was antagonizing this position when they were passing over a corduroy bridge that spanned a slough. As they crossed this bridge they espied an old razorbacked sow on the bank making a terrible noise because her pigs had got into the slough and were in danger of drowning. As the old coach began to climb the hill, Mr. Lincoln called out, “Driver, can’t you stop just a moment?” Then Mr. Lincoln jumped out, ran back and lifted the little pigs out of the mud and water and placed them on the bank. When he returned, his companion remarked: “Now Abe, where does selfishness come in on this little episode?” “Why bless your soul, Ed, that was the very essence of selfishness. I should have had no peace of mind all day had I gone on and left that suffering old sow worrying over those pigs. I did it to get peace of mind, don’t you see?”

[Holman]

I just think it's the polite thing to do. Japan has been doung it since way begore Covid. Which gote thinkning. I winder if the mask issue in the US is really deeply rooted in the fact that the majority of us are actually just not intetested in being polite.

I think it's more of a reactionary resistance to *anything* the government suggests that we do.

My dad had a friend in the 1970s who always cut the seatbelts out of a new car.

[Punisher]

I just think it's the polite thing to do. Japan has been doung it since way begore Covid. Which gote thinkning. I winder if the mask issue in the US is really deeply rooted in the fact that the majority of us are actually just not intetested in being polite.

I think it's more of a reactionary resistance to *anything* the government suggests that we do.

My dad had a friend in the 1970s who always cut the seatbelts out of a new car.

I wonder if those type of people took "question everything " as a personal challenge.
I also wonder if maybe those type of people also have an undiagnosed mental illness.
They shpuld have watched more Star Trek...the needs of the many and all that...

[Unagi]

My dad had a friend in the 1970s who always cut the seatbelts out of a new car.

Also an example of someone that doesn't give a shit about how they affect other people.

I can imagine being someone who does not want to be forced to wear a seatbelt, but I can't imagine forcing that position on anyone who wants to take a ride with me.

[ImLawBoy]

My dad had a friend in the 1970s who always cut the seatbelts out of a new car.

My friend's dad cut the buckle off the strap and inserted it into the clip so he wouldn't even have to hear the dinging for a few seconds when he started the car (back when they would only ding for a few seconds and then stop altogether).

[The Meal]

There's one ideology which is looking for the benefit of the masses and another which is focused on selfishness.

And the Abraham Lincoln ideology that benefiting the masses is focusing on selfishness.

But not the kind of selfishness at odds with mutually beneficial upside. I’d claim they were different beasts entirely.

Re: the question-everything mentality
I’ve got no issues with that, conceptually, as long as what’s being questioned isn’t already understood. The “question everything” coming from the uneducated is just an exercise of frustration for all involved. (And no, I’m not referring only to academically educated, though obviously I think there’s a strong place for that, education and experience can go hand-in-hand just fine.)

Never mud wrestle with a pig and all that…

[Smoove_B]

Slapping this here:

These findings are from the latest quarterly update of Gallup’s COVID-19 tracking poll, based on interviews with over 5,000 U.S. adults and conducted Aug. 29-Sept. 5 via Gallup's probability-based web panel.

...

Thirty percent of Americans now say the pandemic is getting worse. This is up sharply from 5% in Gallup’s prior measure in late May/early June, and 8% in February, and is the highest rate of pessimism about the pandemic measured in over a year, since July 2022. Pessimism still isn’t close to the overwhelmingly negative outlook seen in 2020, however, when as many as 73% said the pandemic was worsening.

As has been the case consistently since the start of 2022, the largest share of adults, currently 41%, believe the coronavirus situation is improving, while a steady 30% say it’s staying the same.

Is it over?

While fewer Americans today than last quarter believe the pandemic is over, the majority (53%) still say it is. This is down from 64% in May/June but remains slightly higher than the 49% recorded in February. All of these readings are higher than Gallup found in 2021 or 2022.

(it's not over)

Why did I post here?

All party groups are more likely now than in May/June to say the coronavirus situation is getting worse, but Democrats have grown particularly negative about the trajectory. The percentage of Democrats who believe the situation is worsening has jumped 38 percentage points this quarter, from 6% in May/June to 44% in September. This contrasts with a 17-point increase among independents, to 22%, and a 13-point increase among Republicans, to 16%.

Masking:

Slightly more than half of U.S. adults, 55%, report they never wear a mask outside the home, while 45% do so to some extent. Of the latter, just 6% say they always or very often wear one, and another 11% sometimes do, while 28% say it’s a rare occurrence.

This is a complete reversal from early on in the pandemic, in July 2020, before vaccines were developed, when the slight majority said they always wore a mask (53%) and another 31% wore them very often. Twelve percent wore them sometimes and 3% rarely, with less than 1% saying they never wore one.

While few adults, regardless of party, say they always wear a mask today, the percentage wearing one at least sometimes is much higher among Democrats (25%) than among independents (15%) or Republicans (6%).

Reasoning for masking is all over the place.

[Smoove_B]

Totally normal:

Alabama lawmakers are taking the lead on an effort to defund security protection for Dr. Anthony Fauci, the retired director the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases who became a household name during the COVID pandemic.

U.S. Rep. Dale Strong, a Republican from the Huntsville area, introduced a bill Thursday in Congress that would eliminate federal money being used for Fauci’s security detail. The bill so far has three co-sponsors – two of which are among Strong’s Alabama colleagues in the House: Mike Rogers and Barry Moore.

Fauci’s received his security detail after death threats were made against him and his family with the onset of the COVID pandemic in March 2020.

[Blackhawk]

For a second there is sounded like Alabama was trying to take away his federal protection. I was confusticated.

[ImLawBoy]

Masking:

Slightly more than half of U.S. adults, 55%, report they never wear a mask outside the home, while 45% do so to some extent. Of the latter, just 6% say they always or very often wear one, and another 11% sometimes do, while 28% say it’s a rare occurrence.

I don't wear a mask when I'm outdoors, but I always wear a mask outside the home when I'm indoors. Where does that put me? And what if I went to my parents' for dinner and we all tested negative ahead of time so I didn't wear a mask then (hypothetical - haven't been to my parents' in ages for myriad reasons, but we've had them over in a scenario where all tested negative so we went unmasked).

Also, is that 6% of the 45% always masking, or 6% of the total? It reads like the former.

[Smoove_B]

It's not an outdoors / indoors element. It's whether or not you're masking at your house vs making when you're outside your house and doing things.

You're a 6%er, wearing masks when you're out and about. I'm not sure if they actually surveyed to a granular level of wearing masks while outdoors and around others (like at a BBQ or baseball game).

[Skinypupy]

This was posted by the Florida Department of Health's official Twitter this morning.



Fucking ghouls.

[Punisher]

Ok. I need clarification.
Do you think they are lying about that?
I know for a fact that hospitals in my area were doing similar things during the height of covid.
Come in for one thing, trst positive with covid even eith no symptoms, get listed as a Covid pt.
I can understand the need to identify covid so you can keep those pts away from other non covid pts.
I dont think its right to mark them as being in the hospital as a covid pt as their primary reason for being there.

[malchior]

Ok. I need clarification.
Do you think they are lying about that?

As for me? Yes I believe they are lying. Why?

I know for a fact that hospitals in my area were doing similar things during the height of covid.
Come in for one thing, trst positive with covid even eith no symptoms, get listed as a Covid pt.
I can understand the need to identify covid so you can keep those pts away from other non covid pts.
I dont think its right to mark them as being in the hospital as a covid pt as their primary reason for being there.

COVID positive is just an attribute. It is data. No one at the CDC is trying to establish a link between a broken leg and COVID. Instead, this is similar talk to dying with COVID vs. from COVID that was ginned up by the ghouls on the right. These ideas are largely driven by intentional misinformation narratives. Which unfortunately have wormed there way into the general conversation like this. It's intended to undermine trust in public health sources and build a victim culture for political power.

[LordMortis]

It's a valid distinction. However, liars do figure and my trust for the right with figures is complete zero. I mean, election tampering. <stop> <end> <mic drop>

[Zaxxon]

It's a valid distinction. However, liars do figure and my trust for the right with figures is complete zero. I mean, election tampering. <stop> <end> <mic drop>

+1.

[Smoove_B]

Ah, this old chestnut.

I know it won't come as a surprise to some of you, but the same argument has been used for decades with pregnant women. How? She didn't die because she was pregnant - she died because her blood pressure was so high or her kidneys failed.

Of course her blood pressure was so high and her kidneys failed because of the stress associated with being pregnant, but they want to make sure no one is trying to associate being pregnant with having a potentially life-threatening scenario develop for the mother - for reasons you can imagine.

[Unagi]

Masking:

Slightly more than half of U.S. adults, 55%, report they never wear a mask outside the home, while 45% do so to some extent. Of the latter, just 6% say they always or very often wear one, and another 11% sometimes do, while 28% say it’s a rare occurrence.

I don't wear a mask when I'm outdoors, but I always wear a mask outside the home when I'm indoors. Where does that put me? And what if I went to my parents' for dinner and we all tested negative ahead of time so I didn't wear a mask then (hypothetical - haven't been to my parents' in ages for myriad reasons, but we've had them over in a scenario where all tested negative so we went unmasked).

Also, is that 6% of the 45% always masking, or 6% of the total? It reads like the former.

6% + 11% + 28% = 45%


“Of the latter (45%), just 6%…”

[Punisher]

Ah, this old chestnut.

I know it won't come as a surprise to some of you, but the same argument has been used for decades with pregnant women. How? She didn't die because she was pregnant - she died because her blood pressure was so high or her kidneys failed.

Of course her blood pressure was so high and her kidneys failed because of the stress associated with being pregnant, but they want to make sure no one is trying to associate being pregnant with having a potentially life-threatening scenario develop for the mother - for reasons you can imagine.

If the person wasn't pregnant then would they have had those symptoms?
I guess that would be the rhing with me. If pregnancy caused those symptoms why wouldn't be a significant factor. Yes she died because of kidney failure but did pregnancy cause the problem in the first place.
I could be wrong, but I dont think anyone actually died from covid. Covid cause other things like respiratory arrest which caused death but it could be arguied that mo covid meant no respiratory arrest.

[TheMix]

Ah, this old chestnut.

I know it won't come as a surprise to some of you, but the same argument has been used for decades with pregnant women. How? She didn't die because she was pregnant - she died because her blood pressure was so high or her kidneys failed.

Of course her blood pressure was so high and her kidneys failed because of the stress associated with being pregnant, but they want to make sure no one is trying to associate being pregnant with having a potentially life-threatening scenario develop for the mother - for reasons you can imagine.

If the person wasn't pregnant then would they have had those symptoms?
I guess that would be the rhing with me. If pregnancy caused those symptoms why wouldn't be a significant factor. Yes she died because of kidney failure but did pregnancy cause the problem in the first place.
I could be wrong, but I dont think anyone actually died from covid. Covid cause other things like respiratory arrest which caused death but it could be arguied that mo covid meant no respiratory arrest.

Careful, that's a slippery slope.

I mean, technically, no one ever dies of old age. Instead some organ or other stops working....

I think it's fair to say that if the person did not have the cause prior to catching Covid, that it was the "cause". You might get some slip through. Since maybe the person was going to have a heart attack even if they hadn't caught Covid. I'm sure there are a whole slew of other factors too. Since it weakens one's ability to deal with other stuff.

Isn't that part of the flu question? i.e. did the person die from the flu? or did they die from pneumonia that they couldn't fight off because they had the flu? Chicken vs. egg debate, I guess.

[LawBeefaroni]

Cardiac arrest with gunshot wound to the spine.

[Punisher]

Yeah. It's an important distinction.
I guess my next question is if the cdc is using this to say that those people are in the hospital because of covid or if they are just trying to say that there are x amount of people in the hospital because of covid.
Maybe they should make 2 different reports.
Repor 1. Number of people in hospital because of covid including people who have separate readons to be hospitalized but because covid brought it on. Like respiratory problems brought on by covid.
Report 2. Number of people who are in the hospital and test positive for covid regardless of the reaon they are in the hospital.
This might help clear up confusion and in theory give less ammo to the naysayers. Basically call them out for not understanding the report in the first place nut make it clear what the report is for.

[Unagi]

It was once explained to me that there was actually only one cause of death: lack of oxygen to the brain.

[LordMortis]

It was once explained to me that there was actually only one cause of death: lack of oxygen to the brain.

Yeah, lungs and heart are the only things that kill you. Maybe you can count the brain but the brain can turn to mush and you can still be alive, even.

[Alefroth]

The purpose of the lungs and heart is to get oxygen to the brain.

[Isgrimnur]

If one removes the brain from the skull and spreads it across a wide area, there should be plenty of oxygen available.

[LordMortis]

I'm pretty close to being guilted in to wearing masks while grocery shopping again. I'd say a good 15% people are masking nowadays. That's more than were masking in spring, when my habits started to loosen with regard to masking at all indoor jaunts.

[Smoove_B]

I think I've found a company I could actually work for. Note all their clients. So weird that this company still exists, with the pandemic being over and a need for (closes eyes and slowly breathes in) public health prevention seemingly gone.

[Max Peck]

Just more evidence that SpaceX is a company that is not actually run by Musk.

[LordMortis]

Not sure if there is some sort of spike going on or a change in messaging or what but while errand running I'd say nearly 40% of people oot and a boot are masking. I am not one of them. Most maskers are elderly. but then most people running errands at 09:00 are elderly. If this keeps up then Ima have to change my new habits.

[Smoove_B]

Transportation mask ban supported by Democrats in the Senate:

"This is a massive victory for personal freedom in this country," Vance said in a post-vote statement. "We saw countless abuses of authority throughout the COVID pandemic, and the American people were justifiably enraged by unscientific mask mandates.

"Today, the United States Senate took an emphatic step toward common sense and individual liberty. I'm proud of what we've accomplished here and look forward to continuing the fight."

...

Vance said prior to the vote on the Senate floor that while COVID will unfortunately be with Americans for likely the rest of their lives, its presence should not constitute "public health panic" for a respiratory virus which is mostly unable to be stopped or controlled on a widespread level.

He alluded to altercations on flights between passengers and flight attendants during the height of the pandemic due to mask enforcement. Vance also mentioned the developmental delays to schoolchildren and division that resulted among American families.

"If people want to wear masks, of course they should be able to," he said. "But if people don't want to wear masks on airplanes, on transit, they should have that option as well, and that's all that my amendment does.

"It is narrowly scoped. It applies for the next 11 months and applies to transportation cases. And I think it is reasonable to not ask the American people to reenter the era of mask mandates."

List of Democrats that voted in favor:

Baldwin (D-WI)
Bennet (D-CO)
Brown (D-OH)
Kaine (D-VA)
Kelly (D-AZ)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Manchin (D-WV)
Rosen (D-NV)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Tester (D-MT)

[Unagi]

wait a minute.

So, if we had a new virus that was killing people in massive numbers, they have now made it illegal to force people on public transit to participate in any 'public mask mandate' ???

Is that what that is?

[Smoove_B]

That is correct.

[Unagi]

I just have no words. honestly.


So, every single dickhead that got violent with some airline employee is now vindicated. And anyone who ever actually risked physical harm by trying to get them to simply mask up is now left demoralized.

Wonderful country.

[Pyperkub]

Yup, as much of a dangerous loon as you'd expect (well, more):

he former Delta airlines pilot who is charged with threatening to shoot a flight captain previously made headlines for challenging the Air Force’s coronavirus vaccine mandate to the U.S. Supreme Court.

The pilot, Jonathan Dunn, previously served as a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force Reserve and refused to get the coronavirus vaccine, citing religious grounds, CBS News reported, which cited several sources familiar with the matter.

From the click through:

An airline pilot is accused of pulling a gun in the cockpit of a commercial flight and threatening to shoot the captain if he diverted the plane to help a passenger suffering a medical emergency, according to federal prosecutors

Jonathan J. Dunn was indicted on Oct. 18 by a Utah grand jury for the incident, which happened in August 2022.

The name of the airline and details of the flight were not publicly released.

Dunn was charged with interference with a flight crew, which is punishable by up to 20 years in prison.

[Alefroth]

He should get a count of attempted murder for every person on the plane like the guy that tried to disable the engines.

[Pyperkub]

He should get a count of attempted murder for every person on the plane like the guy that tried to disable the engines.

Maybe, but at least for the passenger having the medical emergency, yeah. The rest would kind of depend on the regulations regarding medical emergency landings, IMHO (tho the fact that he has been indicted says a LOT about that, even if not spelled out in the articles).

Also, a HUGE reason not to have armed pilots too - and I'm definitely thinking of the pilots who jumped wildly at the chance to carry guns on commercial jets. TSA and locked cabin doors aren't enough? What are you going to do then?

IMHO, most of the people who WANT to carry guns everywhere are the ones you'd least trust to have a gun everywhere. It's not 100%, but I'd put that number higher than 50% (and the odds of an accident/incident compared to an armed pilot saving lives with a gun at about 10-1 in favor of the fuckup).

At least in today's gun-crazy USA society. It did used to be a lot better.

[Smoove_B]

Remember COVID-19? New article in The Lancet covering how it was handled in the UK:

A former minister for health in England wrote to me that “The COVID-19 inquiry will make us the laughing stock in the eyes of the world.” But it is worse than that. The level of criminal incompetence exposed by recent witnesses to the UK COVID-19 Inquiry, chaired by Baroness Heather Hallett, has proven that many, if not most, of over 230 000 deaths were preventable. Amid the claims of extreme misogyny, profanity, and chaos that litter the evidence is a story of complete government breakdown.

Looking forward to a review on the United States.

[malchior]

It's crazy when you think that the disaster struck when several nations had their worst leaders in a hundred years (at least) in office.