Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

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Isgrimnur
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Yojimbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:40 pm For me to run up 6 figures of debt pursuing my self-directed advanced degree in early typesetting technology and then, after the fact expecting my neighbors to pay it off with me seems inherently like an encroachment upon their liberty.

Tell me how far off in the tall grass I am.
There's plenty of straw out there for your man-building needs.
NickAragua wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:54 pm So now you've got a kid with 140k in debt racking up interest and working at a Mickey D's because nobody's actually going to hire someone with a degree in 13th century British literature.
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Statista: Number of doctoral degrees earned in the United States in 2017/18, by field of research

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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:52 pm I went to college for a year and a half before I had to take a semester of (legitimately) for a family emergency, then life got busy and by the time I was able to go back, the factors that led to me filing for disability were in the way. Net result? I'm 15,000 in debt, with exactly zero chance of paying it off in my lifetime on a disability check. From the time I was 20 (when I started) until the day I die, I will never know a time when I'm out of debt, and it will always be a hole in my credit rating.
Education.gov: Student Loan Forgiveness
Total and Permanent Disability Discharge

Available for Direct Loans, FFEL Program loans, and Perkins Loans.

If you’re totally and permanently disabled, you may qualify for a discharge of your federal student loans
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:18 pm
Little Raven wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:58 pm I don't understand why we would focus on Student Loan Debt exclusively.

If the idea is economic stimulus...why not just give poor people money? Why tie it to student loans?
If someone has student loans and credit card debt, certainly high interest credit card debt should be forgiven before low interest student loans, right?
Theoretically. The real problem is that student loans are forever. It makes sense but still it is different than just interest rates.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by malchior »

Defiant wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:21 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:18 pm
If someone has student loans and credit card debt, certainly high interest credit card debt should be forgiven before low interest student loans, right?
Can government "forgive" debt to a private entity?
Correct - my suspicion is that they'd either buy the loan or already own the loan outright.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by RunningMn9 »

Little Raven wrote:I don't understand why we would focus on Student Loan Debt exclusively.

If the idea is economic stimulus...why not just give poor people money? Why tie it to student loans?
Because that requires Congress, and Mitch McConnell is a shithead.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by RunningMn9 »

malchior wrote:Tons of data saying entire cohorts are having massive problems with student loans and a bunch of people who want to turn it into some morality tale.
But they voluntarily chose their circumstances.

Maybe I’m hypersensitive to the topic because of how hard I’ve worked to get my kids to understand the true cost of their “college dreams”. Every school my daughter wants to go to was converted into the probably student loan payment, and the subsequent hit she would take to her income. Over and over and over again.

If she elects to mortgage her future, for reasons, at least you can take comfort that I will be against bailing her out too.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Freyland
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Freyland »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:27 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:52 pm I went to college for a year and a half before I had to take a semester of (legitimately) for a family emergency, then life got busy and by the time I was able to go back, the factors that led to me filing for disability were in the way. Net result? I'm 15,000 in debt, with exactly zero chance of paying it off in my lifetime on a disability check. From the time I was 20 (when I started) until the day I die, I will never know a time when I'm out of debt, and it will always be a hole in my credit rating.
Education.gov: Student Loan Forgiveness
Total and Permanent Disability Discharge

Available for Direct Loans, FFEL Program loans, and Perkins Loans.

If you’re totally and permanently disabled, you may qualify for a discharge of your federal student loans
Imma gonna quote this just so it doesn't get lost before Blackhawk comes back around.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Yojimbo »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:24 pm
Yojimbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:40 pm For me to run up 6 figures of debt pursuing my self-directed advanced degree in early typesetting technology and then, after the fact expecting my neighbors to pay it off with me seems inherently like an encroachment upon their liberty.

Tell me how far off in the tall grass I am.
There's plenty of straw out there for your man-building needs.
Yes, yes there is (I can JUST see what you did there over the grass). But come on, if I'm going to start paying for other people's studies I will sure have some input in what they study. I had healthy set of parameters for my children based on their talents, interests, scholarships and GIP (Gross Income Potential) of the likely jobs. I don't think any of you would enjoy this level of scrutiny from me (or anyone else, really) so why would we commingle our funds in such a manner?

I often plant between 100 and 2,000 trees annually. I think it is of great public good but I don't for a second think that any of you should pay for this.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by malchior »

RunningMn9 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:24 pm
malchior wrote:Tons of data saying entire cohorts are having massive problems with student loans and a bunch of people who want to turn it into some morality tale.
But they voluntarily chose their circumstances.

Maybe I’m hypersensitive to the topic because of how hard I’ve worked to get my kids to understand the true cost of their “college dreams”. Every school my daughter wants to go to was converted into the probably student loan payment, and the subsequent hit she would take to her income. Over and over and over again.

If she elects to mortgage her future, for reasons, at least you can take comfort that I will be against bailing her out too.
I get it but when you see that it isn't just a few - this is like the housing crisis again. People wanted to turn that into a morality tale too but it isn't that simple. When many of these kids went to school it was pre-housing crisis. They had no idea how the next 20-30 years was going to treat them. This is a bigger crisis in a way because it will absolutely have wide political ramifications. They are a huge cohort of people who've essentially been trod on their entire adult lives - housing was more expensive compared to us or the boomers. Education costs were higher. They walked into a massive recession. Their salaries are lower compared to our cohort. They are over educated and under paid/under employed. They have widespread issues with mental illness. It is a generational ticking time bomb.

Essentially we are punishing them for not being fortune tellers. Did some go and get useless degrees for large amounts of money. Sure. But those are outliers policy wise. We need to focus on an entire generation being pushed into left populism. I am assuming that is what people talking to Biden are saying. "Ignore this and you're creating legions of Bernie Bros raring to tear the system down."
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Smoove_B »

As someone that is on the lowest-tier levels of the higher education industry right now let me tell you that -

(1) tuition prices are absurd and (2) students are being pushed into graduate degrees after being told their undergraduate degrees are nearly worthless (because everyone has them). I have lost track of the number of students I've spoken to that elect to go to graduate school because they can't find a job. The fact that these graduate programs take them is borderline criminal in my opinion.

Debt reform (and the ability to get money) part of the picture. Figuring out better options (like public service for 2 and 4 year degree graduates) makes more sense (to me) as it gets them off the hamster wheel of debt.

I think so many Gen Xers and the younger boomers are pushing college on high school students now because it was pushed on us. However, I don't think there's a true understanding of the magnitude of the costs. My 70-something year old dad is still talking to me about preparing for my daughter to attend college in ~4 years - as if we could have saved $150K ($700 a month from the day she was born) and somehow managed to own a car, buy a house an fund retirement at the same time. Meanwhile, he paid $~32K in total for me to attend state college; it's bonkers and it's absolutely going to implode - soon.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Yojimbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:24 pm
Yojimbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:40 pm For me to run up 6 figures of debt pursuing my self-directed advanced degree in early typesetting technology and then, after the fact expecting my neighbors to pay it off with me seems inherently like an encroachment upon their liberty.

Tell me how far off in the tall grass I am.
There's plenty of straw out there for your man-building needs.
Yes, yes there is (I can JUST see what you did there over the grass). But come on, if I'm going to start paying for other people's studies I will sure have some input in what they study. I had healthy set of parameters for my children based on their talents, interests, scholarships and GIP (Gross Income Potential) of the likely jobs. I don't think any of you would enjoy this level of scrutiny from me (or anyone else, really) so why would we commingle our funds in such a manner?

I often plant between 100 and 2,000 trees annually. I think it is of great public good but I don't for a second think that any of you should pay for this.
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Do you get input on what people buy with their Social Security checks? What countries we invade or provide arms and assistance to? Or what services are available through the medical programs? I mean, more than voting for or against the people that 'represent' you.

As for planting trees, that's commendable. And there are probably federal and state programs that would help defer those costs under certain circumstances. After all, we spend >$5B a year on the US Forest Service, including over $2B for raking the forests.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Blackhawk »

Freyland wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:38 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:27 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:52 pm I went to college for a year and a half before I had to take a semester of (legitimately) for a family emergency, then life got busy and by the time I was able to go back, the factors that led to me filing for disability were in the way. Net result? I'm 15,000 in debt, with exactly zero chance of paying it off in my lifetime on a disability check. From the time I was 20 (when I started) until the day I die, I will never know a time when I'm out of debt, and it will always be a hole in my credit rating.
Education.gov: Student Loan Forgiveness
Total and Permanent Disability Discharge

Available for Direct Loans, FFEL Program loans, and Perkins Loans.

If you’re totally and permanently disabled, you may qualify for a discharge of your federal student loans
Imma gonna quote this just so it doesn't get lost before Blackhawk comes back around.
And I appreciate it. The problem is that I only meet one of the two criteria. I'm not considered 'permanently' disabled, and still go through a review every four or five years. With the addition of the cancer damage (including a partially paralyzed shoulder), it'll likely last until I hit social security age and get shunted, but it still isn't on the books as 'permanent.'

It's like working someone one hour under the max for them to count as full time so you don't have to pay benefits.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Disability Discharge
If you’re eligible for Social Security Disability Insurance or Supplemental Security Income, you can qualify for a TPD discharge if you provide a copy of your SSA notice of award or Benefits Planning Query showing that your next scheduled disability review will be five to seven years or more from the date of your last SSA disability determination.
...
You also can qualify for a TPD discharge by having a physician certify on the TPD discharge application that you are unable to engage in any substantial gainful activity due to a physical or mental impairment that
  • can be expected to result in death;
  • has lasted for a continuous period of at least 60 months; or
  • can be expected to last for a continuous period of at least 60 months.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by gameoverman »

Yojimbo wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:42 pmYes, yes there is (I can JUST see what you did there over the grass). But come on, if I'm going to start paying for other people's studies I will sure have some input in what they study. I had healthy set of parameters for my children based on their talents, interests, scholarships and GIP (Gross Income Potential) of the likely jobs. I don't think any of you would enjoy this level of scrutiny from me (or anyone else, really) so why would we commingle our funds in such a manner?

I often plant between 100 and 2,000 trees annually. I think it is of great public good but I don't for a second think that any of you should pay for this.
I don't think of it this way and it's not due to the kindness of my heart. The problem I see with this line of thinking is it focuses on the principle of the thing and not the solution to the problem.

You ever watch one of those dashcam videos on Youtube? There is almost always one clip where you can clearly see someone ahead cutting off the dashcam driver and the dashcam driver drives into them anyway. Then the text by the driver says something like "I had the right of way/they didn't signal/they were found at fault". All that is true but the dashcam driver still needlessly crashed when the accident could have been avoided entirely. I'd hate to see the country pass up a chance to benefit and only because we aren't at fault for that debt. If that debt is having a negative economic effect that could be fixed by debt forgiveness then who is at fault for it does not matter.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by gbasden »

Kraken wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:01 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:58 am Beau of the Fifth Column was saying the high cost of education is essentially class warfare - keep the poor people out.

Also, yesterday I was corresponding with a nursing student who has $140,000 in student debt (and counting). Can you imagine how long it will take her to pay that off on a nurse's salary? When I was at public university in the 1970s, a full semester's tuition was in three figures. Adding room & board barely brought it over $1,000. Most of us got our bachelor's degrees without debt. I can't even imagine graduating with six-figure debt.

Education is a public good, in the sense that we all benefit from a better-educated workforce.
Even in the 80's, tuition for a UC school for a year was around $1200 ($2390 in 2020 dollars). Now they estimate $14,100. I am still strongly in favor of subsidized tuition for state schools to make them more affordable.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Defiant »

I seem to remember that a significant part of the explanation for the rising cost of public universities was because of significant funding cuts by states. States should get back to funding them to keep costs more affordable.

And most students should be going to state schools or community colleges. Students should be dissuaded from going to private schools unless they either can afford it, or get scholarships to reduce the cost to make them affordable (or, in the case of a few universities, the endowment covers the costs).
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by GungHo »

I guess my question is, if we forgive loans now, what are we doing for kids that go to school next year? Are we forever forgiving loans? Does this mean college is free now?
I think I can be talked into a scenario where this is true for tuition but 'going away to college' involves so much more $ than just tuition. For a state school kid like myself, tuition was maybe 1/10th of my total cost of attending school and I am struggling mightily with the idea of tax payer $ being used for the other 90%.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by gbasden »

GungHo wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:53 am I guess my question is, if we forgive loans now, what are we doing for kids that go to school next year? Are we forever forgiving loans? Does this mean college is free now?
I think I can be talked into a scenario where this is true for tuition but 'going away to college' involves so much more $ than just tuition. For a state school kid like myself, tuition was maybe 1/10th of my total cost of attending school and I am struggling mightily with the idea of tax payer $ being used for the other 90%.
Trying to keep an open mind though
Personally, I would like to see tuition (and maybe books) be far more affordable. If someone makes the decision to live on campus, that's up to them. Tuition was only 10% of my expenses because tuition was so cheap when I went to school. According to the University of California, tuition is roughly half of expenses if someone chooses to live on campus, and is the lion's share if the student could live at home.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by LordMortis »

Defiant wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:35 am I seem to remember that a significant part of the explanation for the rising cost of public universities was because of significant funding cuts by states. States should get back to funding them to keep costs more affordable.

And most students should be going to state schools or community colleges. Students should be dissuaded from going to private schools unless they either can afford it, or get scholarships to reduce the cost to make them affordable (or, in the case of a few universities, the endowment covers the costs).
The last longs sets of comparative reading I did showed the two biggest factors in cost increases were administrative costs and the cost of improving campus life to attract more students. They did not focus on cuts in subsidies (or the failure of subsidies to rise to increasing costs) but rather looked at the insane rate the real costs were rising.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Defiant »

Found what I remember remembering (about state cuts being a large factor):
National trends for all public four-year schools mirror those from the research institutions of Pennsylvania, although there are sizable differences across states, as the table below shows. In the median state, South Carolina, the decline in state appropriations explains 81 percent of the increase in tuition revenue. Only three states — Alaska, North Dakota and Wyoming — have kept funding for higher education on pace with inflation and enrollment growth (represented by negative numbers in the table). In 17 states, the price of college would have actually declined since 2000 (states with a share greater than 100 percent in the table) if funding had been kept constant and the schools applied that money entirely to students’ tuition bills. While state funding has rebounded somewhat during the economic recovery following the Great Recession, most states’ increases have not kept pace with enrollment growth.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/fa ... rocketing/
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Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Zarathud »

The federal budget prioritized student loans over funding education due to Republican “small government” dogma. So tuition prices went up.

At the same time, post-college work paid less. We’re an economy that taxes labor while favoring machine investments. Hire an employee, pay 15.3% tax (1/2 by employer directly). Buy a machine and you get a rax-deduction (formerly over time but now 100% upfront). Again, Republican “low taxes on investment” dogma.

The story of the lazy and wasteful college student as a morality tale is irrelevant. It’s all about economic policy. Bad policy promoted by Republicans.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Little Raven »

There's a lot of stuff going on to make college expensive.
A new paper by economist Beth Akers of the Manhattan Institute (my former employer) asks why college tuition is so high and still rising. The proximate causes of tuition inflation are familiar: administrative bloat, overbuilding of campus amenities, a model dependent on high-wage labor, and the easy availability of subsidized student loans.

However, the deeper question is why the market has allowed these cost inefficiencies to persist. In most industries, competition brings down the cost of products over time. The first laptop computer cost over $5,000 in today’s dollars, but now laptops with far more computing power can be bought for $200. Why hasn’t the same phenomenon occurred in higher education?

Akers explores four potential explanations: students overestimate the return to a degree; colleges are not transparent about their true prices; too few institutions operate in each regional market; and there are significant barriers to entry for new educational providers.
And frankly, simply forgiving student debt isn't going to fix any of them. If anything, it will almost certainly make the underlying structural problems worse. :(
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Defiant »

Zarathud wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:45 am The federal budget prioritized student loans over funding education due to Republican “small government” dogma. So tuition prices went up.
My understanding is that it was the reduction in state funding (which used to be a far, far higher percentage of the funding) rather than federal. And while no doubt some of that was due to Republican dogma, a lot of it was due to the great recession.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by LawBeefaroni »

State funding cuts don't explain the across the board rise including private universities/colleges. The reason tuitions increase is because people are willing and able to pay them.

Why are people willing and able to pay for exorbitant tuitions?

1. The "you have to get a degree/multiple degrees at all cost" narrative.

2. Cheap, easy to get loans.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by noxiousdog »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:49 am 1. The "you have to get a degree/multiple degrees at all cost" narrative.
2. Cheap, easy to get loans.
Add "at a name brand school" to #1.

edit: I would be much more inclined to forgive public school debt than private school.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Defiant »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:49 am State funding cuts don't explain the across the board rise including private universities/colleges. The reason tuitions increase is because people are willing and able to pay them.

Why are people willing and able to pay for exorbitant tuitions?

1. The "you have to get a degree/multiple degrees at all cost" narrative.

2. Cheap, easy to get loans.
Sure. But I have a lot less sympathy for people who take on lots of debt go to private schools they can't afford when there are affordable public school alternatives.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by LordMortis »

Little Raven wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:53 am [/?sh=1565161217a0]There's a lot of stuff going on to make college expensive.[/url]
A new paper by economist Beth Akers of the Manhattan Institute (my former employer) asks why college tuition is so high and still rising. The proximate causes of tuition inflation are familiar: administrative bloat, overbuilding of campus amenities, a model dependent on high-wage labor, and the easy availability of subsidized student loans.
Three of my old findings are listed in the four, so this must be true. Only I found high wage labor not be in list x years ago. I want to say five, but time keeps on slipping slipping slipping into the future and I have no idea any more. My findings were that high wage labor (for education) was going down down down. Tenure professorships being reduced, part time outside teachers and TAs being increased. Now needing a ton more low wage labor or what market viable labor to support expanding administrative and amenity needs to run that golf course and build that new quad out and provide fiber to all of the dorm rooms with an in dorm help desk and all of the campus life programs and their directors and steering committees guest funding and etc... etc... etc...

Giving loan forgiveness for the college experience is a hard pill for me to swallow. Perhaps because I was denied it and put in 40+ hours of every week and took 8 years to get a four year degree and so much of my (much cheaper than now) tuition going to support campus life which was way inferior to what campus life is being supported now. I dunno but I can't deny that sour grapes exist. See Class Warfare post above.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by malchior »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:52 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:49 am 1. The "you have to get a degree/multiple degrees at all cost" narrative.
2. Cheap, easy to get loans.
Add "at a name brand school" to #1.

edit: I would be much more inclined to forgive public school debt than private school.
Depends on the name brand. I don't think you are going to find many Kellogg School of Management graduates bitching about their loans.
Defiant wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:54 amSure. But I have a lot less sympathy for people who take on lots of debt go to private schools they can't afford when there are affordable public school alternatives.
It's more complicated. There isn't enough capacity at public schools. That doesn't mean people should be piling into Trump U. to overpay for a worthless degree but this is a problem being seen across a generation. The pieces matter but this is a whole pie has all sorts of inefficiencies problem.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Defiant »

malchior wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:23 pm It's more complicated. There isn't enough capacity at public schools.
And we should absolutely increase the size of them to meet the demand. But I would imagine almost all people able to get into to a (real) private school would be able to get a spot in a public school because they have higher acceptance rates.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by noxiousdog »

Mortgage debt is $10 trillion. Student debt is peanuts.
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gameoverman
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by gameoverman »

GungHo wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:53 am I guess my question is, if we forgive loans now, what are we doing for kids that go to school next year? Are we forever forgiving loans? Does this mean college is free now?
I think I can be talked into a scenario where this is true for tuition but 'going away to college' involves so much more $ than just tuition. For a state school kid like myself, tuition was maybe 1/10th of my total cost of attending school and I am struggling mightily with the idea of tax payer $ being used for the other 90%.
Trying to keep an open mind though
I think 'free college education' is a different thing than 'forgive the current batch of student loans'.

Forgiving the loans would be intended as a one time boost to the economy. This approach isn't intended to accomplish anything else. It frees people from this debt and in theory allows them to use those funds in more productive(for them and the nation) ways. After this one time forgiveness things go back to how they were.

Providing a free college education to anyone who qualifies is a more ambitious plan. In theory the result would be a more highly educated work force which means they are earning more which means they are spending more and paying more in taxes(gains for the nation). I think the potential for this to work is there. Look at how kids get a free K-12 education now. We aren't providing that because we're nice. We're doing that because the country is better off if everyone is not illiterate. It might be that we are living in a time when providing up to a high school education is simply no longer enough. Maybe not being illiterate has fallen from massively important to, well, not a consideration at this point. We assume everyone has a basic level of education. Now it's about what higher level of education or skills do you have?
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by GungHo »

I think there is going to be a lot of resentment towards a one-time forgiveness approach from 2 directions: the people who previously paid their loans and those who have yet to secure them. Forgetting the potential benefits for a minute, I just think that's a really hard political sell. From that perspective this might just be an academic discussion.
At least if you go the 'free college' route I think you can get support from the younger generation(s).
As a parent of children who aren't yet near college age (and as a parent who has touted the benefits of college), I'm all for figuring out a new way to do this aspect of our society; so I'm open to hearing whatever ideas are in the marketplace. But my gut sense on this is it's DOA in the eyes of our political leaders. They aren't particularly brave as a general rule and the current crop seems especially loathe to do anything that might harm their careers no matter how much good it might do the country.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Isgrimnur »

The Hill
The White House is expected to announce a plan to cancel a chunk of student loan debt on Wednesday, in addition to an extension of the existing payment pause, three sources with knowledge of the situation told The Hill.

Sources said President Biden’s intended measure will include at least $10,000 in loan forgiveness for borrowers who make less than $125,000 annually, as well as another payment freeze for roughly four months.

The $10,000 figure would be the largest forgiveness of federal student loans per individual to date.

The move comes just a week ahead of the White House’s self-imposed Aug. 31 deadline. The timing has left millions of Americans waiting for guidance from the Department of Education on whether student loan payments that have been deferred since the start of the pandemic would resume next month.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by malchior »

I'm constantly worried about the impact of student debt but this seems like a real ham-fisted way of doing it. That being said, it'll be unpopular but this is also a bit of Manchin's fault for killing the Civilian Climate Corps idea which some folks pitched to trade student debt write offs for service.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Octavious »

For people that owe 120,000+ in loans that 10k isn't going to really mean/help much. :P
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by malchior »

The worst thing in my mind is that it doesn't solve any problem. It's just populist action.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by noxiousdog »

Ya'll are drastically underplaying this and it's a good move.

The median amount of student loans is less than $25,000. This is helping exactly who deserves it and substantially.
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by malchior »

It'll definitely help. There are also impactful limitations. I'm assuming it's only going to help with Direct Loan debt. Still the politics are murky. It'll probably be net negative. I think it'll be generally unpopular with the people most likely to vote. It also again doesn't fix the underlying problems. The trick here is whether this populist payout is worth the downside risks. We'll see.
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Pyperkub »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:14 pm Ya'll are drastically underplaying this and it's a good move.

The median amount of student loans is less than $25,000. This is helping exactly who deserves it and substantially.
Interesting.

I'd like to see the interest be capped and/or not compounded. Probably even have a public service payoff/paydown option. I'm not huge on 'cancelling' debt, but I do think that overall, the loan industry has become far too usurious.

I also think that 'cancelling' debt isn't a good approach, as if it becomes even semi-normalized, then prices will just go up to account for it... and also, that there is a good reason for society to treat higher education debt different from other debt, as there is far more benefit to society from a better educated populace, than from a populace with more expensive cars...
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Re: Student Loan Debt Forgiveness

Post by Defiant »

Yeah, I'd want to reduce (or maybe eliminate) interest (and heavily regulate or end private student loans), and I'm OK with partial loan cancellation based on financial need, but I'm against blanket cancellation.
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