Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

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Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by jztemple2 »

From the article on PCGamesN, XCOM Long War mod creators are making their own 4X strategy game
Pavonis Interactive, the same team that made the Long War and Long War 2 mods for both XCOM and XCOM 2 respectively, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta, which you can back now on Kickstarter.
Gee whiz, this sounds good, hope they make their Kickstarter goal... oh wait, after only six hours on Kickstarter they have almost three times the money they were looking for :wink:

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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by coopasonic »

I liked the Long War mods, but grand strategy is totally not my thing. I wish them luck.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Grifman »

Yep, just coming here to post this. They even have a Steam page:



This looks very interesting, a different take on the alien invasion genre which has been all ground based tactical combat. Hope they can pull it off.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Holman »

Their Kickstarter is live now.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by jztemple2 »

Holman wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:03 pm Their Kickstarter is live now.
I thought it was live at the time of my first post at the top?
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Holman »

jztemple2 wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:56 pm
Holman wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:03 pm Their Kickstarter is live now.
I thought it was live at the time of my first post at the top?
Sorry, it probably was!

(I signed up to be notified when it went live, but I've been away for five days visiting my dying father. I checked my email and saw the notification, but I guess I assumed it was recent when it wasn't.)
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Grifman »

Well, I went and signed up, I want them to hit a couple of their outstanding stretch goals. Only $25 and luckily, most of my KS have panned out, only two total failures, one partial failure (I did get a game but not the one initially designed and promised) and one TBD (though slow progress is being made). Plus these guys have a track record, so there's that. Here's crossing my fingers!
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Grifman »

Funded and every stretch goal made:

- 6 additional playable human factions
- 12 additional human ships
- A Cold War alternate alien invasion scenario
- Voice acting for faction leaders and councilors
- 3D human and alien armies
- Foothold scenario (humans already colonize the solar system)
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by raydude »

Is there a "conspiracy" faction that will deny the aliens are trying to invade and say that we are "rounding the corner" on alien invasions?
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Holman »

I backed it.

I've always wanted to see an XCom game spread across a colonized solar system where you manage a multi-planet effort and drop troops in (ALIENS-style) to fight the invaders in a huge variety of environments (from Earth cities to colonized asteroids to infected spaceships).

I know this isn't that because there's no soldier-level layer, but perhaps a sequel?
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Max Peck »

There is a demo available on Steam this week (and this week only, or so I've been told). Prepare to be enraged that the demo doesn't allow you to save (or so I've been told).

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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by coopasonic »

Wishlisted, downloaded the demo, played for a bit over half an hour, uninstalled and removed from wishlist. I guess I should have listened to 2 years ago me...
coopasonic wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:46 pm I liked the Long War mods, but grand strategy is totally not my thing. I wish them luck.
I mean 4X totally isn't my thing, but I managed to have fun with some of the Civs and Crusader Kings 3, but this was just awful. A spreadsheet would have been more interesting. For folks where this is more in their wheelhouse I am interested to hear impressions.

I never got to the "battle enemy fleets in tactical combat" part which might have helped my opinion a bit, but I don't see how I could ever force myself to get to that point.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Max Peck »

Then the demo has done it's job. Demos are just as much about telling people that a game is not for them as they are about securing sales. :lol:
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Sepiche »

I managed to play about 10 hours or so of a campaign, which was enough to start consolidating nations on earth and begin to expand stations in orbit, but I haven't gotten to the point of building spacecraft.

It's definitely looong, and overcomplicated by most standards, but there's some real brilliance in it too. Having research be a joint undertaking by all the competing factions is a pretty fascinating mechanic, each faction having a distinct goal should allow for a lot of different approaches, and the early race for boost capacity through political intrigue is fun and a different start than you might expect.

I hope they are watching the streamers who have been playing it and are planning on some serious polishing all that said. There's definitely an unique, fun game in there if you have the patience to get to it, but whether it ever becomes great depends on the hard work of improving the pacing, UI, and AI enough to hold all the different parts of the game together.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Baroquen »

Out in Early Access today. 10% off to celebrate?



Don't think I'm going to get it now, but did wishlist and am keeping an eye on it.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by jztemple2 »

Ditto
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by baelthazar »

I shall be the sacrificial lamb to take this one.

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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by TheMix »

Taking on aliens with swords and shields? That'll be a rough start. :wink:

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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by coopasonic »

TheMix wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:52 pm Taking on aliens with swords and shields? That'll be a rough start. :wink:
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by TheMix »

coopasonic wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:22 pm
TheMix wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:52 pm Taking on aliens with swords and shields? That'll be a rough start. :wink:
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:lol: :clap:

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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by malchior »

baelthazar wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:51 pm I shall be the sacrificial lamb to take this one.

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I'll be taking a swing at this too. Needed a break from Min-Maxing Wrath of the Righteous anyway. :)
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by baelthazar »

I played this for about an hour or so last night and I realize that I have a lot of learning to do. I can also already see that the game is going to have different "stages" that will require some new strategies as you advance into the late game.

I only know the early game so far, and it is this interesting covert ops style game of assigning council members to a mission and then advancing time to see what happens next. I made some bad choices and invested in some smaller countries, but eventually rectified this and got majority control over Germany, which gave me some more resources. The goal in the early stage is an orbital platform, so you need to be looking for places that generate "boost," the resource needed to move things into the atmosphere.

I also made some mistakes on recruiting council members, as I got too many of the same general type, so my missions available were limited. In my restart, I am going to be more cognizant of that, since this is important. I also made some mistakes in focusing on tech, you have both global tech and personal projects - global tech helps everyone (and the faction who puts the most into it gets to set the next priority) while personal projects only help your faction.

I ran into a few bugs, but this is Early Access. Something about the game gives off a "Supreme Commander" vibe (but more polished and focused on the alien threat). It really ticks a lot of boxes for me, since this is they type of game I have been wanting for a long time (shadow government control over nations, altering policies, guiding nations towards a goal). I am curious as to why they went real time instead of having turns where the turn resolution basically "advances the real time to the next missions selection" but I wonder if this will be more apparent when I get into the orbital game.

Overall, interesting and worth a look.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by stimpy »

I have yet to come across a 4X game I dont bounce hard off of.
I have a feeling this isnt the one to break that streak.

I do kind of recall getting the hang of MOO, but that was many years, and many brain cells, ago.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Grifman »

I think they should have ditched all of the earth diplomacy stuff and left all the rest in - colonizing/developing the solar system and building ships and fighting aliens. That's more than enough for a good 4X game.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by baelthazar »

Grifman wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:49 pm I think they should have ditched all of the earth diplomacy stuff and left all the rest in - colonizing/developing the solar system and building ships and fighting aliens. That's more than enough for a good 4X game.
I disagree. We have more than enough colonizing and space development games. We have very few games about using shadow ops, manipulation, coups, unrest, and the occasional proxy war to unify Earth against a hidden alien threat. The Earth diplomacy stuff is the meat of the game.

I am still early on and they really make the aliens a complete mystery. This isn't XCOM where they are a mystery but you get to see them in the first mission. A few hours in and I still only have hints. It feels like playing the show Colony as a game.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Holman »

This is the start of a good clear tutorial series:

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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by malchior »

Good video. He is explaining mechanics I had just started learning which is helpful. Gonna keep an eye on it because this game is pretty crazy to get into at the beginning.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by baelthazar »

malchior wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:28 pm Good video. He is explaining mechanics I had just started learning which is helpful. Gonna keep an eye on it because this game is pretty crazy to get into at the beginning.
I've put more hours in, but I also restarted the game. Man... there is a LOT going on and I am not sure exactly what I am doing. Even being successful in taking control of the UK, I still feel like I am not accomplishing the goals I set out to do.

Part of this is that you likely need to invest in things like Boost for the country. I did it once, but did not see a great result.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by wonderpug »

What's the current ETA on the full release? The internet is giving me vague answers.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by malchior »

I haven't heard anything but for an "early access" game this seems pretty solid.

They posted a roadmap on Reddit that has a lot of aspirations that make it sound like it was fairly far along when they when went EA.

Spoiler because it is long, long text!
Spoiler:
This is a rough roadmap for what we’ve got planned for Terra Invicta in EA and beyond. This is hugely subject to change based on player feedback and our own judgment, so don’t regard any of this as a promise, just a plan as it exists. We hope that during EA you’ll watch the game get better and better as we work toward a 1.0 release.

• Scenario
- We’re planning to work on what we’re calling a “2070” scenario during EA. This is essentially a start for players who want to play with a (smallish) space program up-and-running from the get-go. This will show up in a regular update of the game at some point. (See below for the status of the Cold War and Foothold scenarios.)

• General UI
- Camera operation will get a look. Right now the UI tries to helpfully focus/zoom/pop an information panel when you click something. Sometimes that’s not desired. We’ll look at making mouse-camera interactions consistent so you can, say, get the information panel without moving your camera.
-Notification controls. There are a few of these already, but the game generally is coded for notifications pop an alert, add info to the top-center horizontal feed, or just add something to the left-side vertical newsfeed. We remain hopeful we can reach player consensus on what specific events belong where but we’ll look at adding specific controls for alert priority if we can’t.
- We will look at scaling UIs for greater accessibility and better Deck support. This may not be trivial to pull off; there’s a lot of information to present.

• Nations
- Numeric breakdowns of what’s changing certain nation values. Along the lines of “In the last month, GDP in Mexico went up due to the Economy priority by $20M, went down due to environmental damage by $3M, and down by $5M due to warfare.”
- Longer term, if we can keep it performant, we’ll record interesting national data for long term performance reviews.
- Also this kind of feedback for climate change values.

• Nation Policies
- Add new major policies for nations:
- Close Borders. Massive hit to economy. Defense bonus. Severely limits which councilors can visit. Essentially how North Korea is now.
- Mobilization.

• Army Warfare
- Army manual pathing and/or destination selection that allows for multiple steps.
- A UI breakdown for army combat about all the modifiers going to a battle.
- We’ll test an “annex region” option during warfare. This will be a long-duration operation by an army to transfer a claimed and occupied region to its home nation. Right now armies capture a capital and claimed territory transfers as a part of a regime change. This is an alternative mechanism to slowly transfer territory in what is otherwise a stalemate.

• Space Combat
- AI that works better towards flanks and protects its own flanks better. AI that uses standoff tactics on stations. Greater preference for self-preservation.
- Controls for ships to stay in formation with other ships.
- Group commands.
- A “Pincer” pre-combat option (or some other name like that). Right now, the way to engage fleets that have more Delta-V than you do, and don’t want to fight, is to send two fleets at once so they are forced to engage the second one. We’ll simplify that by letting you split your fleet as the combat starts; the enemy will be forced to fight the weaker of your two fleets.

• Habs
- A “duplicate hab design” button. This will be limited in some ways because habs in different locations have different power production and requirements.
- Shipyards need some work; the higher-tier shipyards aren’t helpful enough.
- Need to review antimatter mining. It will never be that much – there is very very little natural antimatter created in the Solar System.

• Modding
- Our current modding setup doesn’t allow you to add or substitute new text in easily. We’re planning to fix this.
- Down the road we’ll start conversing with modders about how we can open up aspects of TI better for modding – like exposing a constant in code to config.

• Startup options
- Some control of your initial councilors' professions.
- Difficulty fine tuning
- Global research speed multiplier
- Initial CP Cap settings

• Space Exploration / Navigation
- Aerocapture
- Gravity-assist trajectories
- Allow fleets to abort planned trajectories while waiting for their launch window (this is in progress.)
- Ship propellant-sharing, so they can refuel each other. This should enable tanker-type ship designs.
- Large comets. Need VFX.
- 2 Hab Site space bodies, like Vesta and a few others.

• Councilors
- We’re going to explore hard stat caps for various councilor classes (below 25) as a balancing mechanism and to make you think a little harder about who you recruit.
- Invest in your orgs to upgrade them
- Traits or other mechanisms that can lower loyalty of councilors

• AI
- The late-game human AI needs to get better at building and utilizing fleets and pursuing its victory conditions.
- AI peacemaking will get a look. Interstate wars tend to persist longer than they need to.
- Human hab AI building still needs some work, particularly with regard to non-required modules. We’ve also seen successful players fill low earth orbits with stations to gain the Earth bonuses. The AI doesn’t do this nearly as much as we’d like.

• Translations
- The game has a few novels worth of text, and our localization is rough in places. This is an iterative process, and it will get better.

• Performance
- The main remaining problem is that the late-game AI has a lot to do and sometimes the game can get pretty choppy while it is considering its options. This includes designing and building ships, organizing fleets and managing orgs.
- We made a lot of progress with combat and Earth-UI-related performance issues shortly before release. There might be some UI improvements we can still manage.
- There are some large summary UIs (research and nations in particular) that are slow to load.

• Content
- More event/mission/objective illustrations are on the way
- More strategy layer music tracks are in production
- Additional faction leader voice files

• Probably post-EA: the Cold War and Foothold (far-future) scenarios
- These may not be available during the EA period. We’d like to add some additional features to Terra Invicta to better support these, like wet-naval warfare and nation-like polities in space. These are quite a bit more complex to add than some of the things we’ve listed above, so we’ll need to assess what it will take to develop these. Stay tuned.

This is all in addition to the bugfixing and balancing we’ll be doing.
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by malchior »

Put a few hours in and this game can be quite addictive. I've played 5 years game time and this is the state of the resistance (as much as it is) on Earth. I have nearly unified the European Union. I might have been able to do it faster if I understood the mechanics better. In any case, there were unfortunate events for the US
Spoiler:
a civil war and a huge mega-alien attack!


Since they had their economy injured I have the world's 2nd biggest GDP after China. Unfortunately China has been full on overrun by aliens...so things aren't looking great for humanity. It was bad luck with the first alien ship crashing there.

The resistance is building a lot of space capacity to try to claw our way out of the bad situation. It mostly consists of mining operations and a few space stations for now. I haven't built a warship yet but I'm close. When I can find some time later, I'll give some more detail.

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Un-bigimg-ed here:
Spoiler:
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Hyena »

I considered picking this up this weekend, but damn if it doesn't look WAAAAY overly complicated for the sake of complication. Convince me otherwise?
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Holman »

Hyena wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:33 pm I considered picking this up this weekend, but damn if it doesn't look WAAAAY overly complicated for the sake of complication. Convince me otherwise?
It really looks like it's a game for people who loved the XCom2 Long War mod and want to play it at the level of the Solar system rather than just the Earth.

You won't do squad-level XCom2 actions, but you will care about which Earth nations support you and whether your Mars colonies are producing enough resources to fuel and repair your space fleet, etc. Meanwhile, your fleets will actually engage with alien ships at the level of specific ship-system damage.

(The ultimate game would be one that combines all these scales of concern, tactical to operational to strategic.)
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Isgrimnur »

Would it let you drive a large ship? Like some sort of Battle ... cruiser?
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by NickAragua »

Dammit, Derek...
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Hyena »

Holman wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:00 pm
Hyena wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:33 pm I considered picking this up this weekend, but damn if it doesn't look WAAAAY overly complicated for the sake of complication. Convince me otherwise?
It really looks like it's a game for people who loved the XCom2 Long War mod and want to play it at the level of the Solar system rather than just the Earth.

You won't do squad-level XCom2 actions, but you will care about which Earth nations support you and whether your Mars colonies are producing enough resources to fuel and repair your space fleet, etc. Meanwhile, your fleets will actually engage with alien ships at the level of specific ship-system damage.

(The ultimate game would be one that combines all these scales of concern, tactical to operational to strategic.)
So it's more like an overland xcom game with no squad stuff? Hmm...the squad stuff is what I liked about XCom...
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by coopasonic »

Hyena wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:03 pm So it's more like an overland xcom game with no squad stuff? Hmm...the squad stuff is what I liked about XCom...
As an XCOM and Long War fan, with a particular interest in the tactical combat, I played the demo when it was available this summer and it had approximately nothing I liked. It's closer to Crusader Kings than XCOM, but Crusader Kings (3) was much better for me.
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baelthazar
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by baelthazar »

coopasonic wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:58 am
Hyena wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:03 pm So it's more like an overland xcom game with no squad stuff? Hmm...the squad stuff is what I liked about XCom...
As an XCOM and Long War fan, with a particular interest in the tactical combat, I played the demo when it was available this summer and it had approximately nothing I liked. It's closer to Crusader Kings than XCOM, but Crusader Kings (3) was much better for me.
Yes, the better way to think of this game is that it is a Paradox game (mostly like Hearts of Iron rather than CK3 or Stellaris) but you play has an underground faction and the game is focused on unifying parts of Earth and then overcoming aliens in a giant map encompassing the solar system. It is MASSIVELY crunchy, almost crunchy to be crunchy (I'm not totally sure what purpose setting economic priorities for countries has).

The other way to look at it is that this game is a bit like a Sci Fi and real time version of Shadows of Forbidden Gods. You assign agents, they do missions over time. You get incremental change, until you tip the scale and move the needle in your favor (then things really start to go). My main criticism is that the game really should just be turn-based - but I haven't gotten to the Orbital battle part of the game.

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Holman
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by Holman »

coopasonic wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:58 am
Hyena wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:03 pm So it's more like an overland xcom game with no squad stuff? Hmm...the squad stuff is what I liked about XCom...
As an XCOM and Long War fan, with a particular interest in the tactical combat, I played the demo when it was available this summer and it had approximately nothing I liked. It's closer to Crusader Kings than XCOM, but Crusader Kings (3) was much better for me.
One thing it has is space combat with player-designed ships and (I believe) fully Newtonian physics. There's none of that in the early game, but my understanding is that in the later game there are alien bases and fleets in the Solar system as well as the same belonging to different human factions.

In a sense, it's as if you start with the global map of Xcom but eventually evolve into The Expanse.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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gbasden
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Re: Pavonis Interactive, who made Long War/Long War 2 mods, is developing a grand strategy game called Terra Invicta

Post by gbasden »

baelthazar wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:23 am
The other way to look at it is that this game is a bit like a Sci Fi and real time version of Shadows of Forbidden Gods. You assign agents, they do missions over time. You get incremental change, until you tip the scale and move the needle in your favor (then things really start to go). My main criticism is that the game really should just be turn-based - but I haven't gotten to the Orbital battle part of the game.

So, a bit off topic, but do you recommend this? It's certainly right up my alley thematically. I generally avoid early access, but it's got pretty good reviews. If you think it has legs I'll check it out.
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