Re: Too soon to start thinking about 2024?
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:31 pm
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
https://octopusoverlords.com/forum/
But sure, let’s keep playing with the idea that it’s a sound Democratic strategy to boost Trump because he’s sure to lose in the general.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:18 pm Not the transcript, but the closing remarks I believe:
Trump claimed that the country, as he sees it, “will be lost forever” if he does not prevail in 2024.
“This is the final battle – they know it, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. Either they win, or we win. And I promise you this: If you put me back in the White House, their reign will be over, and America will be a free nation once again,” Trump said.
Is anyone saying that?Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:28 pmBut sure, let’s keep playing with the idea that it’s a sound Democratic strategy to boost Trump because he’s sure to lose in the general.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:18 pm Not the transcript, but the closing remarks I believe:
Trump claimed that the country, as he sees it, “will be lost forever” if he does not prevail in 2024.
“This is the final battle – they know it, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. Either they win, or we win. And I promise you this: If you put me back in the White House, their reign will be over, and America will be a free nation once again,” Trump said.
Yes.El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:06 pmIs anyone saying that?Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:28 pmBut sure, let’s keep playing with the idea that it’s a sound Democratic strategy to boost Trump because he’s sure to lose in the general.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:18 pm Not the transcript, but the closing remarks I believe:
Trump claimed that the country, as he sees it, “will be lost forever” if he does not prevail in 2024.
“This is the final battle – they know it, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. Either they win, or we win. And I promise you this: If you put me back in the White House, their reign will be over, and America will be a free nation once again,” Trump said.
Ok, well, be sure to tell those people out there somewhere that they are wrong, then.Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:27 pmYes.El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:06 pmIs anyone saying that?Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:28 pmBut sure, let’s keep playing with the idea that it’s a sound Democratic strategy to boost Trump because he’s sure to lose in the general.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:18 pm Not the transcript, but the closing remarks I believe:
Trump claimed that the country, as he sees it, “will be lost forever” if he does not prevail in 2024.
“This is the final battle – they know it, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. Either they win, or we win. And I promise you this: If you put me back in the White House, their reign will be over, and America will be a free nation once again,” Trump said.
Are you really telling me you haven't seen a not insignificant number of talking heads suggesting that it's a viable strategy for the Democrats to boost the worst and most extreme MAGA candidates in GOP primaries in order to secure general election victory?El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:08 pmOk, well, be sure to tell those people out there somewhere that they are wrong, then.Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:27 pmYes.El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:06 pmIs anyone saying that?Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:28 pmBut sure, let’s keep playing with the idea that it’s a sound Democratic strategy to boost Trump because he’s sure to lose in the general.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:18 pm Not the transcript, but the closing remarks I believe:
Trump claimed that the country, as he sees it, “will be lost forever” if he does not prevail in 2024.
“This is the final battle – they know it, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. Either they win, or we win. And I promise you this: If you put me back in the White House, their reign will be over, and America will be a free nation once again,” Trump said.
I was going to say the exact same thing. The Democrats are terrible at risk management but I don't think this idea extends to Trump himself. Everyone outside MAGA recognizes the danger. Excepting notably all the people who have the actual power to do anything about it.
We have talked about whether it makes sense for Democrats to boost particular Republican extremists in specific races to boost their odds of winning those races. I haven't read or heard a single person suggesting that Democrats boost Trump in order to win the 2024 presidential race (nor anyone suggest that it's *always* a good idea for Democrats to boost extremists).Kurth wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:58 amAre you really telling me you haven't seen a not insignificant number of talking heads suggesting that it's a viable strategy for the Democrats to boost the worst and most extreme MAGA candidates in GOP primaries in order to secure general election victory?El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:08 pmOk, well, be sure to tell those people out there somewhere that they are wrong, then.Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:27 pmYes.El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:06 pmIs anyone saying that?Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:28 pmBut sure, let’s keep playing with the idea that it’s a sound Democratic strategy to boost Trump because he’s sure to lose in the general.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:18 pm Not the transcript, but the closing remarks I believe:
Trump claimed that the country, as he sees it, “will be lost forever” if he does not prevail in 2024.
“This is the final battle – they know it, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. Either they win, or we win. And I promise you this: If you put me back in the White House, their reign will be over, and America will be a free nation once again,” Trump said.
We've had discussions about that here as well.
It's not like this is some obscure idea. Honestly, I'm missing the point of the snark here.
Ok, fair enough. Maybe I was thinking about the talk of boosting down-ballot MAGA candidates. I hereby accept your snark as well-deserved and retract my original eye roll emoji.El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:10 pmWe have talked about whether it makes sense for Democrats to boost particular Republican extremists in specific races to boost their odds of winning those races. I haven't read or heard a single person suggesting that Democrats boost Trump in order to win the 2024 presidential race (nor anyone suggest that it's *always* a good idea for Democrats to boost extremists).Kurth wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:58 amAre you really telling me you haven't seen a not insignificant number of talking heads suggesting that it's a viable strategy for the Democrats to boost the worst and most extreme MAGA candidates in GOP primaries in order to secure general election victory?El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:08 pmOk, well, be sure to tell those people out there somewhere that they are wrong, then.Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:27 pmYes.El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:06 pmIs anyone saying that?Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:28 pmBut sure, let’s keep playing with the idea that it’s a sound Democratic strategy to boost Trump because he’s sure to lose in the general.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:18 pm Not the transcript, but the closing remarks I believe:
Trump claimed that the country, as he sees it, “will be lost forever” if he does not prevail in 2024.
“This is the final battle – they know it, I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. Either they win, or we win. And I promise you this: If you put me back in the White House, their reign will be over, and America will be a free nation once again,” Trump said.
We've had discussions about that here as well.
It's not like this is some obscure idea. Honestly, I'm missing the point of the snark here.
Obviously there's an idiot for every opinion and the like, but I don't think that boosting Trump is something that people are seriously toying with.
Note, the final straw wasn't when TFG tried to kill Christie by giving him Covid during debate preparation.Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie does what other 2024 Republican presidential contenders rarely do by condemning presumptive frontrunner Donald Trump, even if the rebuke comes two election cycles too late.
Christie idled on a chance to chastise Trump when they shared a debate stage in 2016 – something he now calls a "strategic error." He supported the former president in 2016 and 2020, helping with debate preparation and more.
But the final straw for Christie came on election night in 2020, when Trump stood behind the presidential seal and falsely claimed the election had been stolen.
"When you put yourself ahead of our democracy as president of the United States, it's over," Christie said.
...
Christie said Republicans need to find someone who can do to Trump what he did to Marco Rubio in a 2016 debate, when Rubio awkwardly repeated talking points as Christie knocked him off his game. That's the only thing that will defeat Trump, Christie said.
“I’m confident that people want leaders that want the best of the America, not those who appeal to their worst instincts,” Hutchinson told ABC’s “This Week” in an interview aired Sunday. He said he would make a formal announcement in April in Arkansas.
...
Hutchinson, 72, left office in January after eight years as governor. He has ramped up his criticism of the former president in recent months, calling another Trump presidential nomination the “worst scenario” for Republicans and saying it likely benefit President Joe Biden’s chances in 2024.
In addition to Trump, Hutchinson joins a Republican field that also includes former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley and entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is expected to jump into the race in the summer, while U.S. Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina and former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo are among those considering bids.
That's cute.
This. I don't take much solace in the poll results. Whether people think favorably of TFG is irrelevant. We know from experience that they will likely hold their noses and vote for him anyway.
My assumption is that Trump's indictment(s) will move the long-term equilibrium on Trump for a material number of independent and low-information voters. I think "Trump seems corrupt and/or unethical" is already baked in, but actual indictments will probably influence people's sense of how acute the issue is. But I agree that the impact won't be enough to make Trump a non-viable candidate given the Electoral College.malchior wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:32 pm It'd 100% be better if they had a bigger poll but you're probably talking about accurate level of 25-30% really. The margin error doesn't dramatically jump until you get to a couple thousand or so.
In any case, that's a dip but not a huge dip from his unfavourability in 2016 which was 35% or so. We have to figure people's opinions have hardened about him at this point. You know what you are getting. We know he is an unstable, racist, authoritarian thug for sure. And we don't know how people will vote for him despite that but the EC makes him a viable candidate nonetheless. This result doesn't change that math IMO especially with Biden rocking shit numbers too.
Just like Wu-Tang
Scoop: Multiple sources with direct knowledge are telling me that @ChrisChristie will be announcing a run for President in the coming days. The campaign will be focused on New Hampshire and will have the financial backing of Mets owner Steve Cohen, among others.
Indeed. Also sad that the best and brightest minds of the GOP surveyed their 2024 prospects and seem to have genuinely thought that calling Trump a loser was going to be enough for them to beat Trump.malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 1:59 pm It's sad that Christie would probably be the least problematic GOP actor in the race. A throwback to...2012...when the GOP was still mostly "only" about abuses of power in their self-interest. FWIW Christie's plan is better than DeSantis who is focusing on Iowa which seems ... dubious.
If that is going to be his strategy, well...I guess things are going to get interesting.More nonsense from Donald Trump last night. Fact: He promised to build a big beautiful wall on the border. Fact: He did not deliver & immigrants are pouring over the border. Fact: He said Mexico would pay for it. Fact: We have not gotten one peso yet. He failed us on immigration.
Donald Trump says he would end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours tonight on CNN. Despite how ridiculous that is to say, I suspect he would try to do it by turning Ukraine over to Putin and Russia. #Putin’sPuppet
Donald Trump refused to say tonight that he wanted Ukraine to win the war with Russia. More proof that he continues to be Putin’s puppet.
Yeah, this is part of my point. The blunt "Trump is a bad person" market in the GOP field is completely empty. Now that's for a good reason (there probably aren't many anti-Trump GOP voters) BUT there is a small chance that there's a non-trivial number of such voters that are being ignored because everyone's just assuming that they don't exist. If Christie can get any traction at all with his arguments, that gives some hope for the future.Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 2:15 pm What's notable is that if you look at the last 3 Tweets from Chris Christie, they're all attacks on Trump:
If that is going to be his strategy, well...I guess things are going to get interesting.More nonsense from Donald Trump last night. Fact: He promised to build a big beautiful wall on the border. Fact: He did not deliver & immigrants are pouring over the border. Fact: He said Mexico would pay for it. Fact: We have not gotten one peso yet. He failed us on immigration.
Donald Trump says he would end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours tonight on CNN. Despite how ridiculous that is to say, I suspect he would try to do it by turning Ukraine over to Putin and Russia. #Putin’sPuppet
Donald Trump refused to say tonight that he wanted Ukraine to win the war with Russia. More proof that he continues to be Putin’s puppet.