malchior wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:13 am
Right. I wouldn't blame them for her death. Perhaps they are slightly responsible for ignoring her medical complaints. Still I blame them for acting like callous thugs taking out the trash.
I'm not sure I'd blame them for ignoring her complaints. I was an EMT forca long time. I've seen plenty of people that were confirmed to be faking symptoms. Usually pain to get pain meds but other things to get either attention or just a warm place to eat and sleep for a bit.
As far as the police are concerned. The medical professionals cleared her medically and said she was fine. They don't have training enough to override a doctors orders. Neither would I for the most part. They are the higher medical authority.
So for them, they have someone who is medically cleared and doesn't want to leave. They seem to think she's faking because of this. They could have been a bit nicer but again if they think shes faking they probably just see it as a delaying tactic.
I would put this 100% on the hospital. I can't find any details on what the hospital did or didn't do do it will be interesting to see if they looked into anything at all or just dismissed her. Reports indicate that she didn't have insurance but I don't think that means they can use this as a means to lower the level of life saving efforts or diagnosis. It's not like shevwent in looking for a tummy tuck or something.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:06 pm
by Smoove_B
Hey, take a look at how NYC is reforming police - with a former chief as their elected mayor:
Confirmed: @NYCMayor is about to announce a new contract for the Police Benevolent Association, NYPD's largest union, that'll grant officers a compounded wage bump of 28.25% through 2025 (with retroactive raises dating back to 2017).
The Minnesota Court of Appeals on Monday upheld the most serious murder conviction against former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin for the killing of George Floyd.
Chauvin is serving a 22 1/2-year sentence on the second-degree murder count. His attorney had asked the appeals court to throw out the ex-officer’s convictions for several reasons, including the massive pretrial publicity. He also argued that legal and procedural errors deprived Chauvin of a fair trial.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 7:34 am
by malchior
How's it going in NY? Seems like they've normalized the overreactive violence from 2020. Relatively small protests about Neely in NY are being met by an aggressive, overtime padding swarm of the NYPD. A reporter was arrested "for getting too close to traffic" at one point.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 7:09 pm
by malchior
You'll rarely see the press outright saying the police are lying like they do in this report. They basically looked at the video and saw the photojournalist was unlawfully arrested at the order of one of the highest ranking police leadership and then they questioned the likely bullshit claim that the NYPD found a "molotov cocktail".
A working photojournalist was among about a dozen people arrested at a protest over last week’s chokehold death of New York City subway rider Jordan Neely.
Stephanie Keith was arrested Monday at the protest outside a Manhattan subway station and charged with disorderly conduct.
Video posted on Twitter shows Chief of Patrol John Chell, one of the highest-ranking members of the NYPD, shouting “Lock her up” as he hands Keith over to two community affairs officers to be handcuffed.
Asked about Keith’s arrest at a news conference late Monday, Chell said that “the reporter interfered in at least two arrests in the middle of the street” and later interfered a third time.
Videos that have been posted on social media appear to show Keith stepping out into the street to get a good shot of something, not interfering with arrests.
Keith said in a text that she could not discuss the arrest itself while charges are pending.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 9:19 am
by AWS260
Man calls 911 because he's locked out of his apartment. Police officer shoots man. NYPD says "nothing to see here."
In the spring of 2019, two New York City Police Department officers entered the Bronx apartment of Kawaski Trawick. The 32-year-old personal trainer and dancer had called 911 after locking himself out.
But 112 seconds after their arrival, footage showed, one of the officers shot and killed Trawick, despite the officer’s more-experienced partner repeatedly telling him not to use force.
When an internal investigation later cleared the officers — saying “no wrongdoing was found” — the NYPD offered no explanation for its reasoning.
The video is damning - the cops were never in danger, one of them was trying to de-escalate, but the other one was itching to pull the trigger.
The future of community oversight boards as Tennessee knows them is no more after Gov. Bill Lee signed legislation this week to disband the police watchdog panels.
...
Lawmakers said oversight boards can still exist in Tennessee, but only at the behest of government entities. In Nashville, for example, Metro Nashville Council must adopt an ordinance by a two-thirds vote at two separate meetings, according to the new law.
...
The state's current model was approved by Tennessee voters. The state's current model was approved by Tennessee voters.
In 2018, more than 59% of Nashville residents voted to approve the creation of an oversight board.
I guess those 59% of the people really don't have a say.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Thu May 18, 2023 11:28 pm
by malchior
The good old NYPD. It's from a few years ago but just popped up because a lot of folks are pointing out the NYPD has been lawless for years.
Edward D. Mullins, the explosive ex-leader of the New York City sergeants’ union who pleaded guilty to stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from the organization and its members, was sentenced on Thursday to two years in federal prison.
Mr. Mullins, who served for nearly two decades as president of the Sergeants Benevolent Association — the country’s fifth-largest police union — pleaded guilty to one count of wire fraud in January for pocketing $600,000 of union money. Mr. Mullins had inflated his business expenses over four years, prosecutors said, and spent that money to cover other costs like luxury goods, extravagant meals and personal items.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:53 pm
by Grifman
This is horrific:
Dedmon warned the deputies there might be surveillance cameras on the property. If they spotted any cameras, the officers should knock on the door instead of kicking it down. But if not, he told them they had free rein to barge in without a warrant.
“No bad mugshots,” Dedmon added in another text. The other deputies understood what he meant: They had the green light to use “excessive force” on areas of a person’s body that would not be captured in a mugshot, prosecutors said.
The officers then hauled the two men into the living room where all six men spewed racial slurs at them and accused them of taking advantage of the White woman who owned the house. They warned them to stay out of Rankin County and go back to “their side” of the Pearl River, referring to neighborhoods with a higher population of Black residents. Dedmon repeatedly drive-stunned Jenkins – placing the Taser in direct contact with his body – while the two Black men were being taunted.
Meanwhile, Opdyke searched the house and kicked open a bedroom door where he found a dildo and a BB gun. Opdyke mounted the dildo on the end of the gun and brought it into the living room.
Dedmon took the dildo and slapped Jenkins and Parker in the face with it. He threatened to rape the men with the device, but stopped when he realized Jenkins had defecated on himself.
Elward then held Jenkins and Parker down on the floor of the living room while Dedmon poured milk, alcohol and chocolate syrup into their mouths. Dedmon poured cooking grease on Parker’s head. Elward threw eggs at both men.
The officers next forced them to disrobe and shower together “to wash away evidence of abuse” before they were brought to jail, the charging document said.
The abuse continued in a bedroom, where Opdyke, Middleton, Dedmon and McAlpin assaulted Parker with pieces of wood and a metal sword.
Dedmon, Middleton, Hartfield and Elward then began to tase the two men repeatedly to see “which (Taser) was the most powerful,” the document said. Elward’s Taser was discharged eight times; Hartfield’s five; and Dedmon’s four.
Then, Dedmon fired into the yard.
Elward removed a bullet from his gun, forced Jenkins onto his knees and put the gun into his mouth. Elward fired the gun, which did not discharge.
He racked the slide, put the gun back in Jenkins’ mouth and pulled the trigger again.
The bullet lacerated Jenkins’ tongue, broke his jaw and went out through his neck.
When emergency medical personnel arrived at the scene, Jenkins was taken to a hospital and underwent multiple surgeries. He has suffered permanent physical injuries and cognitive damage, including disfigurement and impairment, according to the civil lawsuit. Parker also sought medical attention for injuries suffered during the incident, it said.
All six had already admitted their guilt to the crimes in federal court.
...
The prosecutor recommended only five years of prison time Monday on the first charge and five on the second, with the sentences running concurrently, meaning they would be out after five years.
The Telford Police Department is threatening to arrest her for criticizing online local members of Moms for Liberty, a conservative “parental-rights” group.
“It makes me feel like I’m not safe in my own town from the police,” Cimonetti, 47, said.
Vic Walczak, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania, and his colleagues have reviewed Cimonetti’s online posts and activity. He said nothing comes anywhere close to a criminal violation.
“Threats of criminal prosecution from any law enforcement entity is going to scare people and it is that kind of behavior that totalitarian governments use to maintain control,” Walczak said.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2023 9:14 am
by GreenGoo
When police are politicized, it's only a matter of time before it becomes tantamount to a police state.
That every little burg in the US has it's own police force is part of the problem, imo.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:54 am
by Grifman
A Democratic Party leader in MN called from abolishing the police during the height of the BLM protests, until this week when she was violently assaulted and injured during a carjacking. Now she demands swift action to get criminals off the street:
I saw that and thought it was the definition of ironic or karma.
Yes, a lot of police departments need an overhaul and reworking but defunding or abolishing them is not the way to do it.
I would have beem fine if the police said they didn't gave the manpower to come to her anytime soon but shes welcome to come and sit in their waiting room until someone is available.
I don't know the details of this but I know I'm not going to find them out by reading the dailymail. I'm attacking the source rather than the substance because this particular source has been proven to be in a nearly constant state of substancelessness. The daily is a tabloid. Dick Cheney is a robot and Jesus action figure heals the sick type of tabloid.
Do they write less outrageous articles? Sure. Are they sometimes substantively true? Sure again. But those are rare and they always have missing context and significant spin.
So *shrug*.
I understand that everyone can't kept track of reputable news sources from every country, I'm just pointing out that this isn't one.
The article quotes her social media post I believe, which is this:
"We need to get illegal guns off of our streets, catch these young people who are running wild creating chaos across our city," she wrote.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:29 am
by Punisher
I think I read a separate article about that yesterday. Not from dailynail bit cant remember whete. Maybe an AP article?
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:47 am
by GreenGoo
Punisher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:29 am
I think I read a separate article about that yesterday. Not from dailynail bit cant remember whete. Maybe an AP article?
There's no shortage of organizations capitalizing on the seeming change of tune. I really don't want to get into the the subtleties of what defunding the police entailed, nor do I want to investigate whether she was a defunder or one of the crazies suggesting police are no longer needed. Yes, I realize she said "abolished".
None of the details fit into a headline, so we get everyone dunking on her instead of being outraged at the violence that happened on her property in front of her kids.
Fine. People can enjoy their momentary schadenfreude. I do too on occasion. Have at it.
Meanwhile police atrocities continue, and I think that was the focus of defund the police.
edit: And curses to everyone (especially news orgs) for making me spend time unraveling this mess to find out the facts, and worse, for making me waste time on the political views of someone I don't care about.
note: This is old man shaking fist at the universe kind of cursing. I feel no ill-will towards anyone on the forum. I hope that's clear.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:57 am
by Punisher
I'm trying to gind her original stance/quotes but did see many other artickes about the current issue abd her changing stanxw.
NY Post, Washington Post, NY Times, Fox news, CBS News, etc...
So ot at least looks like she teally fid change her tune after becoming a victim.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:14 pm
by GreenGoo
Punisher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:57 am
I'm trying to gind her original stance/quotes but did see many other artickes about the current issue abd her changing stanxw.
NY Post, Washington Post, NY Times, Fox news, CBS News, etc...
So ot at least looks like she teally fid change her tune after becoming a victim.
I guess I can't make it any clearer. Not sure where she stood originally "defund" vs "get rid of", but sure, there are plenty of articles pointing out the irony because it's fun and easy.
I put her quote up from the CBS article. She's unhappy about illegal guns and hoodlums. Especially when they assault her personally. The problem is that it implies that she had zero empathy for others until she was assaulted herself, which is simply unknowable based on these articles.
Sigh. Defund the police was about moving mental health crises away from cops, and reducing their military style gear and training. It was never about removing entire police departments, unless it was to dig out corruption at its core and start from scratch. Sure, many crazy people suggested that police are no longer needed, but that was never a core part of defund the police, and the media gave only the crazies the voice to reach everyone, letting the crazies submarine the entire idea because it had a bad slogan.
So now, years later, we have this nonsense, where "defund the police" has always meant "no police whatsoever", and therefore is an easy dunk when a vocal BLM'er gets assaulted and is unhappy about it. It's ridiculous.
I don't know, maybe she was one of the crazies who said remove the police and don't replace them with anything. If so, dunk away. She deserves it. But we don't know if that's true, no articles are willing to actually be fair in their details and/or report the subtleties, and so we are left with this nonsense. Worse, it undermines any attempt at police reform that might have originated in the BLM movement. Annoying.
In my opinion, headlines should read "Politician advocating police reform due to corruption and abuse, gets assaulted in front of her children and now wants law and order in her city. Haha! Funny, right?"
Irony. Smirk.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:22 pm
by Punisher
Right. That's why im trying to find her original views. So far the current articles all point towards her being one of the ones pushing to completely disband the police and try to rebuild ot from the ground up. Allegedly it actually went to a vote and the publuc knocked it down because they didn't want to disband the police.
So, IF she was a disband the police person, then she does deserve the knock down but thats why I'm trying to find the truth first.
I do recall that most of the people who truly wanted to disband the police were ones who had their own private or government armed security.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:28 pm
by GreenGoo
She has social media posts that say she wants to "abolish" the police. Despite what that word means, I'm not willing to base her potentially nuanced political stance her social media presence at the height of the BLM movement.
But I think it's relatively fair for others to do so, simply because getting to the bottom of things is a massive effort (for the average reader, news articles have no excuse) and we as readers can't do it for every single thing we come across. Plus words mean what they mean, even if the speaker (potentially) didn't mean them literally and was using rhetoric (which is extremely common for everyone to do).
Still, I try to take everything I read with a skeptic's view. Anything that isn't a clearly stated fact is taken with a grain of salt. Especially when an article is trying to tell me how to feel about something.
Anyway, I hope this is the last I'll write on this. Phew.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:30 pm
by stessier
Punisher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:22 pm
Right. That's why im trying to find her original views. So far the current articles all point towards her being one of the ones pushing to completely disband the police and try to rebuild ot from the ground up. Allegedly it actually went to a vote and the publuc knocked it down because they didn't want to disband the police.
So, IF she was a disband the police person, then she does deserve the knock down but thats why I'm trying to find the truth first.
I do recall that most of the people who truly wanted to disband the police were ones who had their own private or government armed security.
You said she wanted to disband and rebuild. That's not wanting no police - that's wanting an end to corruption.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:36 pm
by Grifman
She had a Facebook page where she was calling for the police to be abolished:
We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department. Say it with me. DISMANTLE. The. Minneapolis. Police. Department," she wrote, "As allies, what can we do right now? LISTEN and LEARN from our Black siblings. And then AMPLIFY this message right now, in this moment. MPD has systematically failed the Black Community, they have failed ALL OF US. It's time to build a new infrastructure that works for ALL communities. If you are still disagreeing with that BASIC FACT, I'm not sure what to say to you.
This is the same police department she thanked for helping her:
Thank you to the incredible Minneapolis 4th Precinct Officers, Mayor Frey, Chief O'Hara, Paramedics, neighbors, friends and DFL family, who all came to our aide during this terrifying experience. I'm so grateful for this community that wraps us in love.
They went from needing to be “abolished” to “incredible”, all in just one act of crime.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:37 pm
by GreenGoo
stessier wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:30 pm
You said she wanted to disband and rebuild. That's not wanting no police - that's wanting an end to corruption.
Thanks. If this is true then a thousand news organizations are taking an easy dunk on a woman who was just assaulted in front of her children by perpetrators armed with handguns.
Nice.
It's an easy dunk, and I get that journalism has fallen, and the "defund the police" was never popular, mostly because of messaging, but this annoys me.
And it happens all the time. Everyone just "knows" something is true, so they shutdown any serious dialogue with a quick quip and derision. So while I am taking exception to this particular event, I feel the same way about any other reporting, including heavily left leaning meidas touch, who spin things for maximum left talking points.
No, they aren't as bad as News Max, or even Fox, but they still do it a little and it bugs me.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:41 pm
by Punisher
Well if Gridmans post if her quote is accurate than I might have been wrong about the rebuild part.
It certainly sounds like she wants them gone and replaced with something else.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:41 pm
by GreenGoo
Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:36 pm
She had a Facebook page where she was calling for the police to be abolished:
It says right in your post that she wanted to rebuild from the ground up. I happen to agree with her! for particularly corrupt departments. I'm STILL calling the cops when I need cop intervention. There is no conflict in those two positions.
And of course she's going to thank the police. They helped her. "hey, thanks for showing up, I've just been assaulted. Here, have my spit. ptooey".
Ridiculous.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:42 pm
by GreenGoo
Punisher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:41 pm
Well if Gridmans post if her quote is accurate than I might have been wrong about the rebuild part.
It certainly sounds like she wants them gone and replaced with something else.
I'm curious what you think "infrastructure" means in that quote?
Because clearly we have differing opinions on it.
And honestly, this is the fundamental differences in understanding of the BLM/Defund the Police movement that have existed since day one.
And I'm not rehashing that entire thing all over again. Not more than I've already done anyway. Have at it, I've said what I wanted to say.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:59 pm
by Grifman
I think some police do some really bad stuff, and I have posted my share of incidents that have outraged me. That said, when it comes to shootings, I think we should really seek to understand the extent of the problem. This video from a sociology class at maybe Penn State (??) was a real eye opener for me:
Based on data collected by the Washington Post for 2016, there were 963 people shot by the police and killed by the police:
517 had guns
150 had knives
65 were in vehicles
44 had toy guns
70 had other instruments
48 were unarmed
69 were unknown
In addition, of the people killed above:
233 were black
22 of these were unarmed
Despite what we are led to believe, there is no epidemic of police going around and shooting unarmed people, or even unarmed black people. Every shooting is a tragedy, even of armed people, and we need to do all we can to reduce the shooting of unarmed people by police. But it’s not near the problem that people seem to think it is.
Re: Police Reform in America
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 1:00 pm
by Punisher
Well for one, ot looks like she did try to shut down the police department bur when ir wenr to a publuc vote the public saud no thanka.
I can't find any info on what her actual plan was other then step 1 get rid of the police. Nothing about what she planned on doing if the vote went her way. Nothing about coverage from another department or immediately hiring new officers or anything.
I'm only talking about her specifically orher people in other areas could have different ideas. I know that thete were definitely some who talked about lowering or removing the poluce and replacing with social workers which is a ceazy idea. I don't see a social worker being able to go to a potentially hostel area to try to talk down a gunman without a police presence
