That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
https://octopusoverlords.com/forum/
Until proven otherwise this is the new Mueller investigation. Everyone is hyping these but glosses over that this country is deeply unserious and can't prosecute the powerful. Law and order is only for little people. There is a reason we have such a problem with populism and this is a component.
Plus the GA charges would be a misdemeanor. Big wow.malchior wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:24 pmUntil proven otherwise this is the new Mueller investigation. Everyone is hyping these but glosses over that this country is deeply unserious and can't prosecute the powerful. Law and order is only for little people. There is a reason we have such a problem with populism and this is a component.
Unless you’re a Democrat. The hypocrisy is maddening.Carpet_pissr wrote:I think I’ve given up on accountability. It’s dead as far as I’m concerned.
True. We will have to see if it actually matters. Though at some level I don't think there is much dispute here anymore. We won't know for a couple of years whether it'll actually cost them at the polls.Holman wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:13 pm If there are Congressional investigations into what happened on 1/6 (as there certainly should be), the acquittal will look worse and worse for the GOP.
It will probably also happen that trials of the insurrectionists will feature plenty of "Trump TOLD me to do it!" Many of them have already put in statements to that effect.
The Blue Team could have had reams of evidence, mountains of testimony, and a signed confession. The Red Team could have stood up and literally said "Beep-a-doo-poo-dah" and then sat back down.
The saddest part of the question is that I even have to consider it. I want to believe there are lines that wouldn't be crossed, but we've seen many of those lines obliterated in the last four years.LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:56 amWould you say the red could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and then sit back down?
I've read varying things. I'll see if I can dig it up but one GA attorney said there is no case here because the GA laws around this are almost all about protecting polling places and public records. There wasn't anything in this request that while distasteful likely mapped into the GA article in play according to them. They did say it almost certainly was a Federal crime though. And several other legal experts said it probably was a Federal crime. Let's see what happens when Merrick Garland finally gets the nod.Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:09 amIs this for certain? I was under the impression that the DA was looking at multiple charges, some of which certainly would be felonies.
I'm not convinced. First, six years is a long time politically - god knows what the political environment will be like then. Second, Collins won by a lot, which means she must have done at least ok with independents / Democrats, and she probably has some margin to give up some of her Trumpist supporters without being in danger of losing. And there's some value in having this as a talking point when talking to independent / Democratic voters, which gives her some leeway to support a lot of far right stuff in the meantime.Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:17 amThe Blue Team could have had reams of evidence, mountains of testimony, and a signed confession. The Red Team could have stood up and literally said "Beep-a-doo-poo-dah" and then sat back down.
The outcome wouldn't have changed.
I'm just hoping that Collins' vote to convict kills her politically. She got the Trump Hardcore vote in Maine, but the people who voted against her aren't dumb enough to want to keep her (I know I won't like her in 4 years). I wonder how many Trump-lovers she angered with that vote, and if they'll remember when it comes time. She's basically sloughed off more voters without gaining any.
Yeah and it feels like the base would be a bigger threat via a primary threat than the electorate in general there. I don't know Maine's primary process so maybe that isn't a real threat. If it did happen, that primary winner probably would have lost but that seems more realistic than the electorate taking her down.
It's also not crazy to see a scenario where some Trumpist lunatic beats her in the primary and then gets roundly thrashed in the 2026 general election. Republicans have lost a few winnable senate races like that over the past decade.malchior wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:41 amYeah and it feels like the base would be a bigger threat via a primary threat than the electorate in general there. I don't know Maine's primary process so maybe that isn't a real threat. If it did happen, that primary winner probably would have lost but that seems more realistic than the electorate taking her down.
That's downright likely. The whackdoodles have enough power to win primaries, but in so doing they repel the moderates they need to win elections.El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:59 amIt's also not crazy to see a scenario where some Trumpist lunatic beats her in the primary and then gets roundly thrashed in the 2026 general election. Republicans have lost a few winnable senate races like that over the past decade.malchior wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:41 amYeah and it feels like the base would be a bigger threat via a primary threat than the electorate in general there. I don't know Maine's primary process so maybe that isn't a real threat. If it did happen, that primary winner probably would have lost but that seems more realistic than the electorate taking her down.
It's certainly possible for whackadoodles to win, especially for certain districts and states. But on average whackadoodles / extremists are less likely to win than people who present themselves as moderates / sane people (*especially* less likely to win than incumbents). Which is how Republicans have cost themselves several Senate seats - e.g., Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin, Christine "I am not a witch" O'Donnell, Sharron Angle, Roy Moore, etc.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:42 am Marjorie Taylor Green disagrees (she’s just the queen of the whackadoodles in Congress.). Plenty there that won that peg barely below her on the crazytown meter.
Thumb-headed Henchman Igor Fruman sentenced today to one year and one day in prison.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:49 pmUnless, of course, he gets flipped. In addition to the FARA registration and campaign finance investigation revealed yesterday, the Parnas investigation is proceeding:ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:29 pm You're not going to get much actual information out of Giuliani if you put him on the stand. He's going to claim attorney-client privilege and/or take the 5th, particularly with news that the DOJ has opened an investigation on him. If the goal is to just make him look bad by having him do that, then I suppose you could push for it. I don't know that it really gets you that much, though, and you lose a lot of time waiting for the courts to rule just to make him look a little worse and get no substantive info.
Investigators want to know if Giuliani would have personally profited from the Ukrainian natural-gas business pushed by Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman. The Russian-born operatives, who are now in U.S. custody, were at the time helping with Rudy's efforts to dig up political dirt that could help Trump in the 2020 re-election campaign, the WSJ reports.
Excerpt:
Mr. Giuliani’s associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, pitched their new company, and plans for a Poland-to-Ukraine pipeline carrying U.S. natural gas, in meetings with Ukrainian officials and energy executives this year, saying the project had the support of the Trump administration, according to people briefed on the meetings. In many of the same meetings, the two men also pushed for assistance on investigations into Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and alleged interference by Ukraine in the 2016 U.S. election, some of the people said.
In conversations that continued into this summer, Messrs. Parnas and Fruman told Ukrainian officials and others that Mr. Giuliani was a partner in the pipeline venture, which was a project of their company, Global Energy Producers, one of the people said. Another person said the men considered Mr. Giuliani a prospective investor in their company more broadly, but said the pitch was unsophisticated and exaggerated.
For his part, Giuliani today denied any involvement in the energy company or the pipeline pitch on Friday.
“I have no personal interest in any business in Ukraine, including that business,” Mr. Giuliani said,
Hmm. Pled guilty, but no mention of cooperation in the article. Not much to glean from it.stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:04 pmThumb-headed Henchman Igor Fruman sentenced today to one year and one day in prison.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:49 pmUnless, of course, he gets flipped. In addition to the FARA registration and campaign finance investigation revealed yesterday, the Parnas investigation is proceeding:ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:29 pm You're not going to get much actual information out of Giuliani if you put him on the stand. He's going to claim attorney-client privilege and/or take the 5th, particularly with news that the DOJ has opened an investigation on him. If the goal is to just make him look bad by having him do that, then I suppose you could push for it. I don't know that it really gets you that much, though, and you lose a lot of time waiting for the courts to rule just to make him look a little worse and get no substantive info.
Investigators want to know if Giuliani would have personally profited from the Ukrainian natural-gas business pushed by Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman. The Russian-born operatives, who are now in U.S. custody, were at the time helping with Rudy's efforts to dig up political dirt that could help Trump in the 2020 re-election campaign, the WSJ reports.
Excerpt:
Mr. Giuliani’s associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, pitched their new company, and plans for a Poland-to-Ukraine pipeline carrying U.S. natural gas, in meetings with Ukrainian officials and energy executives this year, saying the project had the support of the Trump administration, according to people briefed on the meetings. In many of the same meetings, the two men also pushed for assistance on investigations into Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and alleged interference by Ukraine in the 2016 U.S. election, some of the people said.
In conversations that continued into this summer, Messrs. Parnas and Fruman told Ukrainian officials and others that Mr. Giuliani was a partner in the pipeline venture, which was a project of their company, Global Energy Producers, one of the people said. Another person said the men considered Mr. Giuliani a prospective investor in their company more broadly, but said the pitch was unsophisticated and exaggerated.
For his part, Giuliani today denied any involvement in the energy company or the pipeline pitch on Friday.
“I have no personal interest in any business in Ukraine, including that business,” Mr. Giuliani said,