The Trump Impeachment Thread

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 19978
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

I think I’ve given up on accountability. It’s dead as far as I’m concerned.

The Grahams, Hawleys, McConnells and Trumps of the world have killed it.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by malchior »

Montag wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:06 pm The impeachment was dead before it started. Nobody has changed their minds. The real show is going to be the criminal probe in GA for election interference and tax fraud in NY.
Until proven otherwise this is the new Mueller investigation. Everyone is hyping these but glosses over that this country is deeply unserious and can't prosecute the powerful. Law and order is only for little people. There is a reason we have such a problem with populism and this is a component.
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 19318
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Jaymann »

malchior wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:24 pm
Montag wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:06 pm The impeachment was dead before it started. Nobody has changed their minds. The real show is going to be the criminal probe in GA for election interference and tax fraud in NY.
Until proven otherwise this is the new Mueller investigation. Everyone is hyping these but glosses over that this country is deeply unserious and can't prosecute the powerful. Law and order is only for little people. There is a reason we have such a problem with populism and this is a component.
Plus the GA charges would be a misdemeanor. Big wow.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16434
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Zarathud »

Carpet_pissr wrote:I think I’ve given up on accountability. It’s dead as far as I’m concerned.
Unless you’re a Democrat. The hypocrisy is maddening.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 19318
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Jaymann »

Here is another take on the impeachment trial: It was a shrewd effort (albeit unknowingly by Congressional Dems) to keep the eye of Sauron off of Biden for the first month. From that perspective it was a resounding success.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Holman »

If there are Congressional investigations into what happened on 1/6 (as there certainly should be), the acquittal will look worse and worse for the GOP.

It will probably also happen that trials of the insurrectionists will feature plenty of "Trump TOLD me to do it!" Many of them have already put in statements to that effect.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by malchior »

Holman wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:13 pm If there are Congressional investigations into what happened on 1/6 (as there certainly should be), the acquittal will look worse and worse for the GOP.

It will probably also happen that trials of the insurrectionists will feature plenty of "Trump TOLD me to do it!" Many of them have already put in statements to that effect.
True. We will have to see if it actually matters. Though at some level I don't think there is much dispute here anymore. We won't know for a couple of years whether it'll actually cost them at the polls.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Paingod
Posts: 13132
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Paingod »

malchior wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:24 pm...well this game truly was rigged from the beginning.
The Blue Team could have had reams of evidence, mountains of testimony, and a signed confession. The Red Team could have stood up and literally said "Beep-a-doo-poo-dah" and then sat back down.

The outcome wouldn't have changed.

I'm just hoping that Collins' vote to convict kills her politically. She got the Trump Hardcore vote in Maine, but the people who voted against her aren't dumb enough to want to keep her (I know I won't like her in 4 years). I wonder how many Trump-lovers she angered with that vote, and if they'll remember when it comes time. She's basically sloughed off more voters without gaining any.
Black Lives Matter

2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70100
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by LordMortis »

Paingod wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:17 am The Red Team could have stood up and literally said "Beep-a-doo-poo-dah" and then sat back down.
Would you say the red could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and then sit back down?
User avatar
Paingod
Posts: 13132
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Paingod »

LordMortis wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:56 am
Paingod wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:17 am The Red Team could have stood up and literally said "Beep-a-doo-poo-dah" and then sat back down.
Would you say the red could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and then sit back down?
The saddest part of the question is that I even have to consider it. I want to believe there are lines that wouldn't be crossed, but we've seen many of those lines obliterated in the last four years.

If you had told me that a president could have gotten away with any of the following, I would have laughed at you ...
  • Very obviously and openly had a narcissistic personality disorder
  • Giving the finger to the emoluments clause and kept an empire
  • Redirected government business and funds to that empire
  • Running a fraudulent university
  • Stealing from their own charity
  • Engaging in an extra-marital affair with a porn star
  • Paying off a porn star with hush money to avoid damage during a campaign
  • Stuffed unqualified friends and family into top positions
  • Openly mocked handicapped people
  • Stuffing his inner circle with people who have since gone to jail or been found guilty of crimes relating to the presidency or election
  • Openly supported white supremacy
  • Fanned the flames of racial tensions, protests, and riots
  • Publicly second-guessed his own intelligence operatives and services
  • Showed deference to hostile foreign powers
  • Actively refused to participate in security briefings
  • Tear-gassed protesters for a photo op with an upside-down bible
  • Installed people with obvious conflicts of interest into roles governing public services like the USPS
  • Shown reckless disregard for public health
  • Openly disputed science in the face of a public health crisis
  • Suggested injecting bleach as a cure to a public health crisis
  • Shilled goods for companies that came under attack from the public
  • Claimed to have won an election despite having lost it
  • Called for their followers to attack the constitutional process
There's more, but I'm frankly tired of writing it.

Because, let's be honest, the GOP was in an uproar over Obama using a self-stick and wearing a tan suit. Bill Clinton (rightly) was impeached for lying about an extra-marital affair. The cumulative sins of past presidents is like "Tuesday" for Florida Man when he was in office, and no one on the Red Team batted an eye. Even the Blue Team spent their whole time gnashing teeth without actually doing anything.
Last edited by Paingod on Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:22 am, edited 5 times in total.
Black Lives Matter

2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
User avatar
Ralph-Wiggum
Posts: 17449
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:51 am

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Jaymann wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:37 pm Plus the GA charges would be a misdemeanor. Big wow.
Is this for certain? I was under the impression that the DA was looking at multiple charges, some of which certainly would be felonies.
Black Lives Matter
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by malchior »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:09 am
Jaymann wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:37 pm Plus the GA charges would be a misdemeanor. Big wow.
Is this for certain? I was under the impression that the DA was looking at multiple charges, some of which certainly would be felonies.
I've read varying things. I'll see if I can dig it up but one GA attorney said there is no case here because the GA laws around this are almost all about protecting polling places and public records. There wasn't anything in this request that while distasteful likely mapped into the GA article in play according to them. They did say it almost certainly was a Federal crime though. And several other legal experts said it probably was a Federal crime. Let's see what happens when Merrick Garland finally gets the nod.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41243
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Paingod wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:17 am
malchior wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:24 pm...well this game truly was rigged from the beginning.
The Blue Team could have had reams of evidence, mountains of testimony, and a signed confession. The Red Team could have stood up and literally said "Beep-a-doo-poo-dah" and then sat back down.

The outcome wouldn't have changed.

I'm just hoping that Collins' vote to convict kills her politically. She got the Trump Hardcore vote in Maine, but the people who voted against her aren't dumb enough to want to keep her (I know I won't like her in 4 years). I wonder how many Trump-lovers she angered with that vote, and if they'll remember when it comes time. She's basically sloughed off more voters without gaining any.
I'm not convinced. First, six years is a long time politically - god knows what the political environment will be like then. Second, Collins won by a lot, which means she must have done at least ok with independents / Democrats, and she probably has some margin to give up some of her Trumpist supporters without being in danger of losing. And there's some value in having this as a talking point when talking to independent / Democratic voters, which gives her some leeway to support a lot of far right stuff in the meantime.

We'll see. Mainly it's hard to see how there could've been a better political environment to beat her in than 2020, so I'm not super optimistic about 2026.
Black Lives Matter.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:04 amWe'll see. Mainly it's hard to see how there could've been a better political environment to beat her in than 2020, so I'm not super optimistic about 2026.
Yeah and it feels like the base would be a bigger threat via a primary threat than the electorate in general there. I don't know Maine's primary process so maybe that isn't a real threat. If it did happen, that primary winner probably would have lost but that seems more realistic than the electorate taking her down.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41243
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:41 am
El Guapo wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:04 amWe'll see. Mainly it's hard to see how there could've been a better political environment to beat her in than 2020, so I'm not super optimistic about 2026.
Yeah and it feels like the base would be a bigger threat via a primary threat than the electorate in general there. I don't know Maine's primary process so maybe that isn't a real threat. If it did happen, that primary winner probably would have lost but that seems more realistic than the electorate taking her down.
It's also not crazy to see a scenario where some Trumpist lunatic beats her in the primary and then gets roundly thrashed in the 2026 general election. Republicans have lost a few winnable senate races like that over the past decade.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Kraken »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:59 am
malchior wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:41 am
El Guapo wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:04 amWe'll see. Mainly it's hard to see how there could've been a better political environment to beat her in than 2020, so I'm not super optimistic about 2026.
Yeah and it feels like the base would be a bigger threat via a primary threat than the electorate in general there. I don't know Maine's primary process so maybe that isn't a real threat. If it did happen, that primary winner probably would have lost but that seems more realistic than the electorate taking her down.
It's also not crazy to see a scenario where some Trumpist lunatic beats her in the primary and then gets roundly thrashed in the 2026 general election. Republicans have lost a few winnable senate races like that over the past decade.
That's downright likely. The whackdoodles have enough power to win primaries, but in so doing they repel the moderates they need to win elections.
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 19978
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Marjorie Taylor Green disagrees (she’s just the queen of the whackadoodles in Congress.). Plenty there that won that peg barely below her on the crazytown meter.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41243
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:42 am Marjorie Taylor Green disagrees (she’s just the queen of the whackadoodles in Congress.). Plenty there that won that peg barely below her on the crazytown meter.
It's certainly possible for whackadoodles to win, especially for certain districts and states. But on average whackadoodles / extremists are less likely to win than people who present themselves as moderates / sane people (*especially* less likely to win than incumbents). Which is how Republicans have cost themselves several Senate seats - e.g., Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin, Christine "I am not a witch" O'Donnell, Sharron Angle, Roy Moore, etc.

So I'd much rather run against some lunatic from Sanford Maine than against Collins. Though of course you do run some risk of the lunatic winning.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 19978
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Let’s hope that continues. I’m not holding my breath.
User avatar
stessier
Posts: 29816
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by stessier »

Pyperkub wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:49 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:29 pm You're not going to get much actual information out of Giuliani if you put him on the stand. He's going to claim attorney-client privilege and/or take the 5th, particularly with news that the DOJ has opened an investigation on him. If the goal is to just make him look bad by having him do that, then I suppose you could push for it. I don't know that it really gets you that much, though, and you lose a lot of time waiting for the courts to rule just to make him look a little worse and get no substantive info.
Unless, of course, he gets flipped. In addition to the FARA registration and campaign finance investigation revealed yesterday, the Parnas investigation is proceeding:

Investigators want to know if Giuliani would have personally profited from the Ukrainian natural-gas business pushed by Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman. The Russian-born operatives, who are now in U.S. custody, were at the time helping with Rudy's efforts to dig up political dirt that could help Trump in the 2020 re-election campaign, the WSJ reports.

Excerpt:

Mr. Giuliani’s associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, pitched their new company, and plans for a Poland-to-Ukraine pipeline carrying U.S. natural gas, in meetings with Ukrainian officials and energy executives this year, saying the project had the support of the Trump administration, according to people briefed on the meetings. In many of the same meetings, the two men also pushed for assistance on investigations into Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and alleged interference by Ukraine in the 2016 U.S. election, some of the people said.

In conversations that continued into this summer, Messrs. Parnas and Fruman told Ukrainian officials and others that Mr. Giuliani was a partner in the pipeline venture, which was a project of their company, Global Energy Producers, one of the people said. Another person said the men considered Mr. Giuliani a prospective investor in their company more broadly, but said the pitch was unsophisticated and exaggerated.

For his part, Giuliani today denied any involvement in the energy company or the pipeline pitch on Friday.

“I have no personal interest in any business in Ukraine, including that business,” Mr. Giuliani said,
Thumb-headed Henchman Igor Fruman sentenced today to one year and one day in prison.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23583
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

stessier wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:04 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:49 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:29 pm You're not going to get much actual information out of Giuliani if you put him on the stand. He's going to claim attorney-client privilege and/or take the 5th, particularly with news that the DOJ has opened an investigation on him. If the goal is to just make him look bad by having him do that, then I suppose you could push for it. I don't know that it really gets you that much, though, and you lose a lot of time waiting for the courts to rule just to make him look a little worse and get no substantive info.
Unless, of course, he gets flipped. In addition to the FARA registration and campaign finance investigation revealed yesterday, the Parnas investigation is proceeding:

Investigators want to know if Giuliani would have personally profited from the Ukrainian natural-gas business pushed by Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman. The Russian-born operatives, who are now in U.S. custody, were at the time helping with Rudy's efforts to dig up political dirt that could help Trump in the 2020 re-election campaign, the WSJ reports.

Excerpt:

Mr. Giuliani’s associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, pitched their new company, and plans for a Poland-to-Ukraine pipeline carrying U.S. natural gas, in meetings with Ukrainian officials and energy executives this year, saying the project had the support of the Trump administration, according to people briefed on the meetings. In many of the same meetings, the two men also pushed for assistance on investigations into Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and alleged interference by Ukraine in the 2016 U.S. election, some of the people said.

In conversations that continued into this summer, Messrs. Parnas and Fruman told Ukrainian officials and others that Mr. Giuliani was a partner in the pipeline venture, which was a project of their company, Global Energy Producers, one of the people said. Another person said the men considered Mr. Giuliani a prospective investor in their company more broadly, but said the pitch was unsophisticated and exaggerated.

For his part, Giuliani today denied any involvement in the energy company or the pipeline pitch on Friday.

“I have no personal interest in any business in Ukraine, including that business,” Mr. Giuliani said,
Thumb-headed Henchman Igor Fruman sentenced today to one year and one day in prison.
Hmm. Pled guilty, but no mention of cooperation in the article. Not much to glean from it.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Post Reply