Elden Ring

[rittchard]

Just to be clear for Hep… I am NOT having “anxiety” about this game. In fact I absolutely LOVE it and I am still enjoying it after around 20 hours of the original game, and now another 20+ hours playing it in “Very Easy” mode. That doesn’t mean I don’t think about what could have made it a “better” game for a broader audience, mostly for the sake of discussion when I’m bored at work.

Looking at it in a more simplistic way, one could argue the developers are being lazy, or biased, or both. Let’s say the entire human population has gaming reflex skills on a scale from 1-100, with 100 being those incredible people who can finish the entire game at level 1 in under an hour, and 1 being someone who can barely hold a controller. I’m just going to throw numbers out there, but I’d say the game is basically designed for players from around 60-100, and optimal for those around 75 to get the full experience of frustration and fun. I’d estimate myself at around 50, like I’m closing in on the bottom edge of the minimum threshold, but just not quite there. Making the game more accessible to the (again just as an example) 30-60 crowd would mean a TON of extra testing and balancing in order to give those players an experience that is still “meaningful” in the way that’s intended. I admit that’s a lot of additional work and likely not worth their effort since they are still selling like hotcakes.

Just so you know I’m not just talking out of my ass as I often like to do, I had a theory the other day that perhaps my issue was that the way I tend to like to click maniacally to attack or dodge, I might be better served with a dexterity (blood loss) build. I read dex would improve attack and casting speed, and possibly dodging as well. So I did the respec thing and pushed dex to 50ish (originally 18). I also changed armor from heavy back to medium. Unfortunately my theory was wrong and it was a disaster. I was still getting “stun-locked” or whatever you call it by lowly arrow shooters and I was doing far less damage because I was using a worse weapon. I also took more damage from the lower armor rating, so even my “very easy” guy was getting killed. Keep in mind this is at somewhere around lvl 140. I just think it would have been really cool if the game had been designed/balanced so that the increased dex stat would mean I would need less real life dexterity. It’s been said you can out-level or out-gear much of the game’s difficulty, but at around 150 now, I am not seeing that pan out for me in practice.

Anyway, back to content. I don’t know how much we are doing spoilers here, but I ended up re-speccing again and fighting the Leyndell capital bosses, which went about as good as I could hope. I thought I was nearing the end, but apparently this is only about half way through? As I said before, this game is just incredible and the content (environments, creature and boss design, etc) is utterly fantastic in terms of quality AND quantity. I really do feel like people who chose to skip it are missing out on one of the best (if not THE best) open world RPGs of all time.

[hepcat]

I mean, if it were as bad as you say it is, I highly doubt it would be breaking sales records and garnering universal acclaim as one of the best games in recent memory.

This game allows you to level up to a point where skill eventually doesn’t even really matter. And it allows you to summon NPCs to help in some instances….as well other players. I don’t know what else it could possibly do to make the game more accessible, yet still give players a sense of accomplishment when they figure out how to beat a boss or area.

In every single open world RPG I’ve ever played, there has always been areas inaccessible to me until I leveled up enough to do any damage to things in that region. This game is no different.

However, you DO have to lose the mindset that dying is bad. It simply is not in a Souls game. I feel like you’re still stuck on that. Dying is just a part of life, so to speak, in Elden Ring.

Is that an Owen Wilson wow at the beginning?

[Skinypupy]

I really do feel like people who chose to skip it are missing out on one of the best (if not THE best) open world RPGs of all time.

An amazing open world...95% of which I would never see because I'm getting wrecked by every single enemy within 100 yards because I really, really suck at Souls-like games.

That said, I'm sure I'll try it at some point when it goes on sale.

[rittchard]

“This game allows you to level up to a point where skill eventually doesn’t even really matter“

I think you’d just have to see me play to understand, Hep... I’m not concerned about dying *conceptually* but what you are describing is just not the case for me, the levels and stats and even gear have not been enough. As I said I’m at level 150 now and I still routinely get locked down or “death animated” by regular mobs. By locked down I mean they continually hit me with something (most recently it was a dumb archer) so that I can’t respond no matter how many buttons I press or how fast I press them. Which means in the “real” game I would be dead almost every other step I took and therefore I would never get past a certain spot because of this. (Editor’s Note: I was told I could use my shield to block the arrows, but that’s just one of the guys that I’ve been locked down by). I’ve seen and experienced enough of the different mob types and the different “death animations” at this point (with cheating on) to absolutely know I would never have even made it through Stormveil without cheating. In case it wasn’t clear, the “very easy” cheat allows me to take a ton more damage and survive, even through a death animation. It is not a true “god mode” as I can still be killed (and I have been).

I played the first 20 hours of the “real” game and while I got to see a lot of game and leveled up to around 50 IIRC by killing the same few guys over and over, it was not enough to compensate for the difficulty of the true “meat” of the game. And yes, this includes using summons and other people helping.

[rittchard]

I really do feel like people who chose to skip it are missing out on one of the best (if not THE best) open world RPGs of all time.

An amazing open world...95% of which I would never see because I'm getting wrecked by every single enemy within 100 yards because I really, really suck at Souls-like games.

That said, I'm sure I'll try it at some point when it goes on sale.

Yeah I’d definitely recommend using one of the cheats I mentioned so that you get to see more of the game. The only thing you lose is the online portion of the game, which isn’t that great regardless.

[hepcat]

To be honest, if you find regular, low level monsters to be still too difficult at level 150, I’d just play something else. And no, this isn’t someone telling you to “git gud”. This is someone telling you it just isn’t a game you’re going to enjoy. We all have some types of games we’ll never be able to enjoy because we lack something it needs. For me, it’s the Call of Duty games. For you, it’s Elden Ring. No shame in it. Life’s too short to bang your head against a wall like this…although I’ve read that if you do so fifty times, a secret passageway may appear.

[Scraper]

To be honest, if you find regular, low level monsters to be still too difficult at level 150, I’d just play something else. And no, this isn’t someone telling you to “git gud”. This is someone telling you it just isn’t a game you’re going to enjoy. We all have some types of games we’ll never be able to enjoy because we lack something it needs. For me, it’s the Call of Duty games. For you, it’s Elden Ring. No shame in it. Life’s too short to bang your head against a wall like this…although I’ve read that if you do so fifty times, a secret passageway may appear.

Yeah I suck at call of duty online too, and i pass on all of those games. No shame in it.

[Skinypupy]

I really do feel like people who chose to skip it are missing out on one of the best (if not THE best) open world RPGs of all time.

An amazing open world...95% of which I would never see because I'm getting wrecked by every single enemy within 100 yards because I really, really suck at Souls-like games.

That said, I'm sure I'll try it at some point when it goes on sale.

Yeah I’d definitely recommend using one of the cheats I mentioned so that you get to see more of the game. The only thing you lose is the online portion of the game, which isn’t that great regardless.

Those are only available on the PC version, correct?

That ain’t happening, as a PC upgrade so I could even run this isn’t in the cards anytime soon.

[coopasonic]

I think you’d just have to see me play to understand, Hep...

So record your gameplay and show us. Based on the way you are describing it, it sounds like you are completely misunderstanding the game. This isn't a game about doing things fast. All that does is get you killed, which is what you are experiencing. I am *not* good at this game. What I am is patient. You need to wait for opportunities. I think I figured it out with Bloodborne, so I've had longer to practice things but I am still a brute force player. Maybe a 65-70 on your scale. Seriously, make a video of some gameplay.

[hepcat]

I will sometimes study a monster for 10 minutes before I even make a move.

[JCC]

I just don't get any argument against the devs providing an easy mode. Yes, I know the game is extremely successful as is. Let's say a mere 5% of gamers won't play the game because it's too hard. (I am sure that the number is much higher.) Is adding an easy mode so costly to do to make that extra 5% of sales not worth the effort? I highly doubt it.

I get that games are art and artists like to stick to their vision. But a big budget game like this is primarily made to make as much money as possible. As wildly successful as this is, they could be making more money. It's silly for them to alienate any percentage of their customer base since the customers who want the game to be as difficult as it is would still be able to play it that way. Not only does it cost them sales of this game, but probably future games where they make the same closed minded decision. What is the downside for providing more options?

As I said before, kudos to Nintendo for patching a Casual/Easy mode into Metroid Dread. I will literally NEVER play it on that difficutly myself, but I might have chosen that option on my first play through, and now anyone new to the game has that option. I just don't understand why fans of games just poo poo the notion that more options for gamers is always a good thing.

[hepcat]

Who’s arguing they shouldn’t have?

I may not think it needs it as the series has always been about dying until you figure out what you’re doing wrong. Remove that danger and you essentially take away the game’s raison d'être. But if someone wants to play that way, I don’t care. Although I would if the balance was thrown off on other difficulty settings because of that…which I suspect is one of the reasons they don’t include an easy mode.

[Jag]

For Ritt, as far as combat, I absolutely suck at it, but I have no problem cheesing the game. They allow cheesing for a reason. If people want to go toe to toe, they can do so. But invariably, I will cheese a tough fight.

Big dragon? Rotten Breath and run around in circles until it dies.
Mobs that machine gun stabs me? Blood of Flies that lock it down so it can barely move.
The Crucible Knight that killed me in Farum Azula 10 times this morning?
1. Lured it to other mobs that attacked it and decimated it's health. Then it killed me.
2. Rotten Breathed it 3 times until it barely had any health left. Then it killed me.
3. Ran around like a lunatic and up some stairs until it yeeted itself off the stairs and into orbit. That's a good kill.

Point is, you don't have to go face smashing anything in this game. There are so many options which is pretty cool. But my rule of games is if it isn't fun, don't play it. I find cheese fun

[stimpy]

If it wasnt for cheese in this game, I'd die from hunger.

[hepcat]

Last night reminded me why I love this game so much. I found a temple in Altus that I hadn't seen before. After beating the guy guarding the front door, I proceeded to explore. I soon realized it was much bigger than I assumed it would be. And it was filled with tough monsters. First up were those damn imps....but with a twist that I won't spoil. However, it made them even tougher to kill.

Then I encountered a crazy fast undead creature that just slaughtered me 4 times in a row. I eventually discovered that casting

Spoiler:

a heal spell

near it, caused it to lose huge amounts of health and stun it. That made those guys much easier going forward.

Then I encountered a trap that dropped me in the middle of a pack of imps. I couldn't figure out how to get around that one at first, but I switched up weapons and found it much easier after that.

Finally, I came across a key in the form a baddie who I had to lure around the dungeon until i could kill him. That opened the boss room door.

Now, I had 25 thousand runes and about a quarter of my health. I was out of flasks for health AND faith points. So I had to figure out a way to get BACK to my site of grace without dying and losing those souls. Eventually I discovered a hidden patch that could only be accessed by literally riding a trap upwards. That dropped me in a small group of zombies who whittled me down even further. So I made a dash for what I figured was the exit. I took a few hits, but made it my site of grace with literally 10 health points left. Sneezing on me would have killed me.

After levelling up and refreshing myself. I made a run for the boss and beat him on the first try.

For every frustrating moment in this game, there are equally satisfying moments like that.

[baelthazar]

I understand all of what people are saying in regards to difficulty.

That said, I am finding Elden Ring FAR more playable and palatable than any other souls-like I have played. I am not sure exactly why, but I think it has to do with the closer waypoints (between liberal sprinkling of Grace and the Stakes of Marika, I rarely have to travel far to recover) and what appears to be easier, better predictability of enemy movements. In some games, such as Bloodbourne, the crazy enemy design makes it look like flowing liquid and made it MUCH harder for me to predict/tell what an enemy was doing (or even which side was front/back).

I also picked a mage for this one, which seems far easier than melee for me.

[Scuzz]

Last night reminded me why I love this game so much. I found a temple in Altus that I hadn't seen before. After beating the guy guarding the front door, I proceeded to explore. I soon realized it was much bigger than I assumed it would be. And it was filled with tough monsters. First up were those damn imps....but with a twist that I won't spoil. However, it made them even tougher to kill.

Then I encountered a crazy fast undead creature that just slaughtered me 4 times in a row. I eventually discovered that casting

Spoiler:

a heal spell

near it, caused it to lose huge amounts of health and stun it. That made those guys much easier going forward.

Then I encountered a trap that dropped me in the middle of a pack of imps. I couldn't figure out how to get around that one at first, but I switched up weapons and found it much easier after that.

Finally, I came across a key in the form a baddie who I had to lure around the dungeon until i could kill him. That opened the boss room door.

Now, I had 25 thousand runes and about a quarter of my health. I was out of flasks for health AND faith points. So I had to figure out a way to get BACK to my site of grace without dying and losing those souls. Eventually I discovered a hidden patch that could only be accessed by literally riding a trap upwards. That dropped me in a small group of zombies who whittled me down even further. So I made a dash for what I figured was the exit. I took a few hits, but made it my site of grace with literally 10 health points left. Sneezing on me would have killed me.

After levelling up and refreshing myself. I made a run for the boss and beat him on the first try.

For every frustrating moment in this game, there are equally satisfying moments like that.

I was there yesterday for about an hour and finally gave up when the big guy showed up. That was probably the most frustrated I have been in my 100 hours plus.

ER is probably the easy mode of Dark Souls games. And it does have an easy mode in the co-op and summonable spirits.

[stimpy]

I'm starting to kind of lose interest in this game, which is sad.
The main problem for me is the total lack of any kind of quest journal or direction.
I know for alot of players that is a draw, but I seriously feel I spend almost as much time online searching for what this gigadoodle does or where I'm supposed to go and how many caves and keys and doohickeys I need to get there or wondering if I talked to Doofus Mcgilicuty 40 hours ago and was his gibberish tied to what Felonious Crubella the Toeless wants me to do? I get the whole no direction whatsoever is part of the lure, but I just find it frustrating that there is no way to track anything I'm doing or where I've been or who I talked to. Maybe I need to start over and keep a journal and put it in my will for my Great Great Grandkids so they wont have to be as tortured as I was when they play the 50th anniversary version of the game that drove old Gramps to an early grave.

Still........I play on.......and on....and on......

[baelthazar]

I hear you on the quests Stimpy. I initially tried to just "discover everything on my own" but finally gave that up to liberally consult the Fextralife wiki. I understand the draw of blind discovery, but it gets obtuse to the point just being random. Quest person says something crazy... ends up on the other side of the map (with no indication that they wanted to go there)... "Oh hi, if only I had this randomly named item..." Find item on a random body also across the map... talk to NPC until you have NO MORE DIALOG... reset at grace... maybe talk more... find them again in a random spot.

[coopasonic]

The funny thing is that I had to use fextralife for my first playthrough and... basically had to use it all over again on the second. I think I could mostly do it all my own now, but yeah it's all kind of.... vague without supplemental info.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I hate the Valiant Gargoyles. That is all.

[hepcat]

I can’t argue against the game being purposely vague when it comes to discovering things. But even though I do refer to online sites for info quite a bit, there are still those awesome moments when I discover something all on my own that I had no idea existed.

Elden Ring is like playing Witcher 3 with the map waypoints turned off…and everyone just replying “okay” when you ask them how you can help them with their stories.

[malchior]

I hate the Valiant Gargoyles. That is all.

The only boss I gave up on. It's a ridiculous fight for a melee build. Challenging to get close enough to hit. When you actually do he vomits poison on you to force you away. When you manage to chip away to 50% then a 2nd spawns. Fuck that.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I hate the Valiant Gargoyles. That is all.

The only boss I gave up on. It's a ridiculous fight for a melee build. Challenging to get close enough to hit. When you actually do he vomits poison on you to force you away. When you manage to chip away to 50% then a 2nd spawns. Fuck that.

I probably tried this fight 15 times last night. The closest I got was one gargoyle dead and the other with about 1/4 life remaining, but then I ran out of healing potions. This was mainly due to a co-op summon who was able to take on the first gargoyle mostly solo once the second one appeared. Unfortunately, he died soon after the first gargoyle.

There is supposed to be a way to cheese this boss, but I could never get it to work for me. There is some speculation that the latest patch may have removed that tactic.

Does anyone know if this boss is required to complete a quest? If not, I may skip it as well.

[stimpy]

I hate the Valiant Gargoyles. That is all.

The only boss I gave up on. It's a ridiculous fight for a melee build. Challenging to get close enough to hit. When you actually do he vomits poison on you to force you away. When you manage to chip away to 50% then a 2nd spawns. Fuck that.

I probably tried this fight 15 times last night. The closest I got was one gargoyle dead and the other with about 1/4 life remaining, but then I ran out of healing potions. This was mainly due to a co-op summon who was able to take on the first gargoyle mostly solo once the second one appeared. Unfortunately, he died soon after the first gargoyle.

There is supposed to be a way to cheese this boss, but I could never get it to work for me. There is some speculation that the latest patch may have removed that tactic.

Does anyone know if this boss is required to complete a quest? If not, I may skip it as well.

According to the wiki he is optional.
Looks like you'll just be missing out on a site of grace.

[coopasonic]

That's the only fight I tried summoning real people into. I managed to still die with my tanky character so stopped bringing people in after two tries. Eventually managed it with my mimic. Unsurprisingly, it was super easy with my mage.

In other news, I got the last trophy/achievement this morning. I am once again wondering what to do with my life.

[stimpy]

If you call, or are called, into someone elses game to help and you die, do you lose your runes?
If so, how do you get them back?

[malchior]

That's the only fight I tried summoning real people into. I managed to still die with my tanky character so stopped bringing people in after two tries. Eventually managed it with my mimic. Unsurprisingly, it was super easy with my mage.

In other news, I got the last trophy/achievement this morning. I am once again wondering what to do with my life.

I don't know if you have a PS5 or not or have beaten Demon's Souls but the remake it is 50% off until mid-April.

[malchior]

I hate the Valiant Gargoyles. That is all.

The only boss I gave up on. It's a ridiculous fight for a melee build. Challenging to get close enough to hit. When you actually do he vomits poison on you to force you away. When you manage to chip away to 50% then a 2nd spawns. Fuck that.

I probably tried this fight 15 times last night. The closest I got was one gargoyle dead and the other with about 1/4 life remaining, but then I ran out of healing potions. This was mainly due to a co-op summon who was able to take on the first gargoyle mostly solo once the second one appeared. Unfortunately, he died soon after the first gargoyle.

There is supposed to be a way to cheese this boss, but I could never get it to work for me. There is some speculation that the latest patch may have removed that tactic.

Does anyone know if this boss is required to complete a quest? If not, I may skip it as well.

According to the wiki he is optional.
Looks like you'll just be missing out on a site of grace.

It is important for a questline too but ... fine. If I play with a mage I'll go down that path.

[coopasonic]

I have a PS5 and I have Demons Souls and that's probably not a bad idea. I couldn't really get into it when I tried it before. I fear I would miss all the easy mode options Elden Ring gave me though.

[stimpy]

I hate the Valiant Gargoyles. That is all.

The only boss I gave up on. It's a ridiculous fight for a melee build. Challenging to get close enough to hit. When you actually do he vomits poison on you to force you away. When you manage to chip away to 50% then a 2nd spawns. Fuck that.

I probably tried this fight 15 times last night. The closest I got was one gargoyle dead and the other with about 1/4 life remaining, but then I ran out of healing potions. This was mainly due to a co-op summon who was able to take on the first gargoyle mostly solo once the second one appeared. Unfortunately, he died soon after the first gargoyle.

There is supposed to be a way to cheese this boss, but I could never get it to work for me. There is some speculation that the latest patch may have removed that tactic.

Does anyone know if this boss is required to complete a quest? If not, I may skip it as well.

According to the wiki he is optional.
Looks like you'll just be missing out on a site of grace.

It is important for a questline too

Is the wiki editable?
That would probably be a good thing to add to it.

[hepcat]

Methinks I leveled up TOO much. Other than those GD snipers who can kill you from 8 maps away in three or less shots, I tore through Siofra River last night. Both bosses went down without a loss. I've also switched back to the Bloodhound Fang. I just can't seem to quit that one.

[stimpy]

Methinks I leveled up TOO much. Other than those GD snipers who can kill you from 8 maps away in three or less shots, I tore through Siofra River last night. Both bosses went down without a loss. I've also switched back to the Bloodhound Fang. I just can't seem to quit that one.

Ha. I just finished that area last night and kinda felt the same.
Especially about the archers. WTF.
Thankfully I FINALLY figured out that weapons, also the Bloodhound in my case, have a special move. DOH.
It did make dealing with those blue bastards much easier.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Eventually managed it with my mimic. Unsurprisingly, it was super easy with my mage.

What spells did you use for this? I'm a INT/DEX character but still am getting rocked. Also, I just got my mimic but haven't upgraded him yet so he's pretty squishy. Maybe I should do some upgrades before coming back to try these damn gargoyles.

[coopasonic]

Eventually managed it with my mimic. Unsurprisingly, it was super easy with my mage.

What spells did you use for this? I'm a INT/DEX character but still am getting rocked. Also, I just got my mimic but haven't upgraded him yet so he's pretty squishy. Maybe I should do some upgrades before coming back to try these damn gargoyles.

Rock Sling was my answer to everything but the basic enemies for most of the game. At least until I learned of the cheesiest cheese of all in Carian Retaliation, but that came much later for me.

[hepcat]

Methinks I leveled up TOO much. Other than those GD snipers who can kill you from 8 maps away in three or less shots, I tore through Siofra River last night. Both bosses went down without a loss. I've also switched back to the Bloodhound Fang. I just can't seem to quit that one.

Ha. I just finished that area last night and kinda felt the same.
Especially about the archers. WTF.
Thankfully I FINALLY figured out that weapons, also the Bloodhound in my case, have a special move. DOH.
It did make dealing with those blue bastards much easier.

That's the primary draw of the Bloodhound Fang. If you use a shield, make sure you put the "No Skill" ash of war on it so you can use your weapon skill in your right hand by just pulling the left trigger (if on xbox).

[Eel Snave]

I'm about 27 hours in. I think I'm playing wrong? I'm primarily melee, and I'm figuring things out, I'm at about level 30-something, and now I'm just milling around trying to figure out where to go next until I consult a guide again. I'm having a lot of fun, though. I might have borked my build, since I heard Dex was the way to go and put a LOT of early points there, and now I find myself not being able to use some of the better weapons.

[coopasonic]

Dex builds are among the most popular so I am not sure you can really go wrong there. There are hundreds of weapons, you decide what's best for you. Just don't spread your build out too much. If you are pure melee, then vigor and endurance are important and then STR or DEX depending on the weapon you want to use. A little INT/FTH for a spell here and there can't hurt but it's better to focus the build when you have limited levels. End game you can afford to spread things around more but you are 120 levels away from that.

[Scuzz]

If you call, or are called, into someone elses game to help and you die, do you lose your runes?
If so, how do you get them back?

Nope.

[Scuzz]

I'm about 27 hours in. I think I'm playing wrong? I'm primarily melee, and I'm figuring things out, I'm at about level 30-something, and now I'm just milling around trying to figure out where to go next until I consult a guide again. I'm having a lot of fun, though. I might have borked my build, since I heard Dex was the way to go and put a LOT of early points there, and now I find myself not being able to use some of the better weapons.

You will at a certain point find someone who will let you respec your stats.