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The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
- Zarathud
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Or maybe there’s still a Hillary aftertaste.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
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"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
- Kraken
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
For everyone who just can't seem to quit her, a NYT opinion on her endorsement and role in the election.
There's more to it than that, but that's the nut graf.Four years ago, Ms. Warren stayed neutral in the Democratic primary between Mr. Sanders and Mrs. Clinton, and during the general election she used her influence among liberals to push Mrs. Clinton to make more left-leaning personnel choices in her transition team. “That was the template that she designed in 2016,” Mr. Fallon said. “Wait back, hold until the nomination is settled and then be very practical and hard-boiled about what your asks are.”
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:54 pm For everyone who just can't seem to quit her, a NYT opinion on her endorsement and role in the election.
There's more to it than that, but that's the nut graf.Four years ago, Ms. Warren stayed neutral in the Democratic primary between Mr. Sanders and Mrs. Clinton, and during the general election she used her influence among liberals to push Mrs. Clinton to make more left-leaning personnel choices in her transition team. “That was the template that she designed in 2016,” Mr. Fallon said. “Wait back, hold until the nomination is settled and then be very practical and hard-boiled about what your asks are.”
Yeah. She's unlikely to wade past the fact that Bernie Sanders is personally unlikable (or that she doesen't like him) to withhold her endorsement of the canidate who has policy plans most like hers, when they need it the most, when we on the left are LOSING a battle for our f'ing lives.
As a leftist myself, I've learned a great deal about Elizabeth Warren and will be unlikely to support her in any future endaevors.
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- em2nought
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Looks like Gillum is "out"Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:39 am I don't think it makes much sense for Bernie to pick Warren as VP; their policies and their supporters overlap too much already. I think someone like Abrams would be a good choice for Bernie. Or maybe Andrew Gillum. Someone young who can appeal to wide swathes of the party and shore up some support in Southern states.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dosed.html
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- Kraken
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Here's Warren's plan to protect the election. Remind me again why Democrats like Joe Biden better?
- Combustible Lemur
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
DickKraken wrote:Here's Warren's plan to protect the election. Remind me again why Democrats like Joe Biden better?
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- Pyperkub
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Also, she made a huge mistake in announcing how she was going to pay for M4A too soon. She got bogged down in attacks on the details and tax fear mongering.Combustible Lemur wrote:DickKraken wrote:Here's Warren's plan to protect the election. Remind me again why Democrats like Joe Biden better?
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It cratered her.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Nah. Bernie barely had a better answer to the same question and he stayed alive.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:36 amAlso, she made a huge mistake in announcing how she was going to pay for M4A too soon. She got bogged down in attacks on the details and tax fear mongering.Combustible Lemur wrote:DickKraken wrote:Here's Warren's plan to protect the election. Remind me again why Democrats like Joe Biden better?
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It cratered her.
- El Guapo
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
I think her core problem (aside from being a woman) was that she was positioned as a middle ground between Sanders and the Democratic mainstream. I think that made sense, but she wound up being insufficiently appealing to both.malchior wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:05 pmNah. Bernie barely had a better answer to the same question and he stayed alive.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:36 amAlso, she made a huge mistake in announcing how she was going to pay for M4A too soon. She got bogged down in attacks on the details and tax fear mongering.Combustible Lemur wrote:DickKraken wrote:Here's Warren's plan to protect the election. Remind me again why Democrats like Joe Biden better?
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It cratered her.
I will say that I was somewhat surprised by how resistant the party leadership seemed to be to her candidacy.
Black Lives Matter.
- Pyperkub
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Bernie had a completely different base with cult like approval.malchior wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:05 pmNah. Bernie barely had a better answer to the same question and he stayed alive.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:36 amAlso, she made a huge mistake in announcing how she was going to pay for M4A too soon. She got bogged down in attacks on the details and tax fear mongering.Combustible Lemur wrote:DickKraken wrote:Here's Warren's plan to protect the election. Remind me again why Democrats like Joe Biden better?
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It cratered her.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Right but it barely registered a blip on him yet it was a huge single factor that took down her campaign? It's too pat. There was a lot more to it.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:20 pmBernie had a completely different base with cult like approval.malchior wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:05 pmNah. Bernie barely had a better answer to the same question and he stayed alive.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:36 amAlso, she made a huge mistake in announcing how she was going to pay for M4A too soon. She got bogged down in attacks on the details and tax fear mongering.Combustible Lemur wrote:DickKraken wrote:Here's Warren's plan to protect the election. Remind me again why Democrats like Joe Biden better?
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It cratered her.
I think this is way closer to the actual why. She was in the right position policy wise but didn't sell the message that she could bridge that divide. Joe has essentially done that to get Bernie to drop. Warren if she had the right team or maybe the communications skills, could have been that person but it just never stuck. The upside is she is a policy person. Her best place to be most effective is probably the Senate so this isn't a bad outcome.I think her core problem (aside from being a woman) was that she was positioned as a middle ground between Sanders and the Democratic mainstream. I think that made sense, but she wound up being insufficiently appealing to both.
- Kraken
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
She made two tactical mistakes: First, engaging on the cost of her M4A plan. Because details were a big part of her brand, IDK if she could have avoided that one. Second was trying to float above the fray as the unity candidate just as the others started taking swings at each other. She's a natural fighter who should've joined the brawl instead of playing meek and mild for a month. By the time she finally attacked again (Bloomberg), it was too late.
Strategically, being female in the aftermath of Clinton's defeat probably would've been fatal even if she'd avoided those tactical errors. Not much she could do about that.
Strategically, being female in the aftermath of Clinton's defeat probably would've been fatal even if she'd avoided those tactical errors. Not much she could do about that.
- RunningMn9
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
I really don’t get the Elizabeth Warren candidacy. I get that she’s a policy nerd, but why does anyone look at the world around us think that what we need is a policy nerd?
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Holman
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
She's whip-smart, extraordinarily competent, and the senator most known for fighting corruption in business and government.RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:25 pm I really don’t get the Elizabeth Warren candidacy. I get that she’s a policy nerd, but why does anyone look at the world around us think that what we need is a policy nerd?
Think of how badly that's needed after Trump.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Defiant
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
I assume this is meant sarcastically? A policy nerd would have helped prevent what we're seeing now.RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:25 pm I really don’t get the Elizabeth Warren candidacy. I get that she’s a policy nerd, but why does anyone look at the world around us think that what we need is a policy nerd?
- Holman
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Still, watching her rip out Bloomberg's shriveled, still-beating heart and toss it to the debate crowd was one of the finest moments of the campaign.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- RunningMn9
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The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
It’s not even a little bit sarcastic. I truly don’t get it.
Edit to add: clearly I’m not alone in this.
Edit to add: clearly I’m not alone in this.
Last edited by RunningMn9 on Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- RunningMn9
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The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Deleted
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Kraken
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
- Pyperkub
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Not a policy nerd, a competency nerd.RunningMn9 wrote:I really don’t get the Elizabeth Warren candidacy. I get that she’s a policy nerd, but why does anyone look at the world around us think that what we need is a policy nerd?
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- noxiousdog
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
I think that might be the problem. I don't see her as especially competent.
Despite her grand ideas, here are the bills she sponsored that were passed.
Meh.
I would have voted for her over anyone else in the Democratic Primary, but I can see why people are not enamored.I say would have because I was voting against Bernie and picked the front runner.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
- Kraken
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Warren's essential workers' bill of rights for the next stimulus bill. As long as we're throwing $trillions around, we might as well stop treating essential workers as disposable workers.
- Kraken
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
News flash: Elizabeth Warren isn't running for president!
She also announced that she will run for reelection in '24. 'Course, all bets are off if Biden dies or doesn't run for a second term. IDK if Warren would automatically fall in line behind Harris.“Joe Biden is running for re-election in 2024. My job right now is to help him succeed,” Warren, 71, said when asked if she would consider running for president again to ensure her policy vision is enacted. So she’s not ruling it out? “I’m not running for president, no,” she said, chuckling from her Zoom window, an are-you-crazy look on her face.
That doesn’t mean she’s any less determined to see her ideas become law. In her latest book, “Persist,” released last week, Warren continues pushing her policy vision on the man who bested her for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination and ultimately the White House. It’s part of her larger effort to make sweeping change in a moment of crisis, although it’s not clear whether, having been passed over for a perch in the administration herself, the tools at hand will be enough.
“I want more, I’ve made that clear,” Warren said during Friday’s interview, referring to Biden’s child care plan, wearing a gray sweatshirt and sipping tea in the sunroom of her Cambridge home. “We had a child care crisis before the pandemic, but the pandemic has ripped back the covering.”
But where the Massachusetts senator — a figure who made her name lambasting Republicans and Democrats alike after the last financial crisis — could have dialed up her criticism of the White House, she instead heaped on the praise.
“He already gets the basic idea, and he’s already willing to make a big commitment,” Warren said of Biden’s child care plan. “We just need to push him to make a bigger commitment.”
Her party back in control of Washington, Warren is working to shape her deeply held progressive beliefs into consensus Democratic policy with an inside game of influence and private lobbying, while asking her supporters to use the power of persuasion to bring the White House along — a departure from the more oppositional tack she has sometimes pursued.
...
Given all she’s learned, what would it take for a woman to win?
“I don’t know,” she acknowledged, and paused.
“Winning the presidency is about a moment,” she said. “The world keeps changing.”
For now, her focus is still on influencing the current president. “We’re only 100 days in.”
- El Guapo
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- Kraken
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
You keep saying that. I believe that he will if his health allows.
- El Guapo
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Sure. I mean, if he's dead he's not running. If he's not, he's running as long as he's not in a coma.
Black Lives Matter.
- Kraken
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow
Based on his behavior following Beau's death, I think he'll take a hard look at his physical and mental stamina in 2024 and step aside if he thinks that Kamala would be better for the country and party. He won't be Zombie Joe. I hope he's up for another run, but I'm not taking that as given.
Back on topic, I'm pleased that Warren is happy to continue being my senator as long as Biden's in the driver's seat.