Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:13 pm**

Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:28 pm Wait, do we know what they found?
And do we have any reason to believe it’s the only thing they have found ?

AFAIK, there has been no inside reporting sourced from Vance's side. Everything we know about this story has come from Trump Org sources.

Posted: **Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:40 pm**

CNBC made the charges sound pretty trivial by comparison to oh so many white collar crimes. Small time misappropriation of funds for transportation and education, essentially small time embezzlement leading to tax fraud. Nothing to implicate DJT in major malfeasance.

Posted: **Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:43 pm**

I really don't know what to make of any of it. On the one hand, Donald Trump. On the other:

“I can’t underscore enough how devastating an indictment would be to the Trump Org,” tweeted Daniel Goldman, a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York who prosecuted mafia families and insider traders. “Every lender would call their loans and no way Trump Org can pay them all, likely leading to bankruptcy.”

“That would be almost a death blow to the Trump Organization,” Mr. Goldman told MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace. “No bank will ever do business with an indicted company.”

...

Richard Signorelli, another former prosecutor with the Southern District of New York, echoed that theory on Twitter, speculating that an indictment of the Trump Organization would “likely result in its destruction as a viable entity.”

“For Donald Trump's businesses, just getting charged could be devastating, even before any potential guilty verdict,” Paul Butler, a professor at Georgetown Law, told MSNBC’s Ayman Mohyeldin. Butler is a former federal prosecutor with the U.S. Department of Justice, where his specialty was public corruption.

“When an organization with a lot of debt gets charged with a crime, banks can call the loans. They can require all the outstanding debt to be paid back immediately,” said Butler. “If the Trump Organization doesn't have enough assets to pay off its loans, it would have to consider bankruptcy. And so this could be the beginning of the end of Donald Trump’s business empire.”

Posted: **Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:53 pm**

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:43 pm I really don't know what to make of any of it. On the one hand, Donald Trump. On the other:

“I can’t underscore enough how devastating an indictment would be to the Trump Org,” tweeted Daniel Goldman, a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York who prosecuted mafia families and insider traders. “Every lender would call their loans and no way Trump Org can pay them all, likely leading to bankruptcy.”

“That would be almost a death blow to the Trump Organization,” Mr. Goldman told MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace. “No bank will ever do business with an indicted company.”

...

Richard Signorelli, another former prosecutor with the Southern District of New York, echoed that theory on Twitter, speculating that an indictment of the Trump Organization would “likely result in its destruction as a viable entity.”

“For Donald Trump's businesses, just getting charged could be devastating, even before any potential guilty verdict,” Paul Butler, a professor at Georgetown Law, told MSNBC’s Ayman Mohyeldin. Butler is a former federal prosecutor with the U.S. Department of Justice, where his specialty was public corruption.

“When an organization with a lot of debt gets charged with a crime, banks can call the loans. They can require all the outstanding debt to be paid back immediately,” said Butler. “If the Trump Organization doesn't have enough assets to pay off its loans, it would have to consider bankruptcy. And so this could be the beginning of the end of Donald Trump’s business empire.”

I don't pretend to know anything about the structure of the Trump organization, but I imagine that it wouldn't just disappear entirely. I expect it would dissolve under the Trump banner, then simply reform as a new org likely under a different name (given the toxicity of the Trump brand outside of the MAGAsphere).

While that would do damage to Trump's notoriously fragile ego, I don't see it really doing any sort of additional harm to him.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:06 am**

Looks like Weisselberg / the Trump Organization has the best PR people. "We aren't going to deny the crime, instead we'll insinuate no one ever enforces it."

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:08 am**

Ya well that's exactly the angle I was expecting they would take and frankly it will work. Nobody is going to storm the streets because some dude got a few apartment that he didn't pay taxes on. It feels like really small potatoes...

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:11 am**

It very much is small potatoes. I will be overjoyed if this leads to something but this feels like Vance trying to justify 3 years of digging with "something".

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:51 am**

Funny, last night I was thinking, wow that's all pretty trivial in the scheme of things but then CNBC reports today that Trump Org lawyers are saying weiss... is being pursued because he refused to flip on the Trump Organization. That sounds a lot less trivial and it's coming from the same PR arm saying it's a witch hunt.

Funny how easily my view can be shaped.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:11 am**

It's trivial in the sense that you can probably look at any company and find something like this and shake out an indictment. We were told how they had all the financial records of the Trump Org and had spoke to the banks. People imagined financial fraud charges and then they come up with the "fraud" equivalent of driving 75 in 55. I know some folks are saying its a big deal but I'm also seeing others who are like, "that's it?" I just think this is just insubstantial enough that they'll be able to spin it away.

Still on flipping Weisselberg any charge means a lot to an older person even if this is the type of thing you can surmise may lead to probation at worst. It's risk, money, and time under the gun. Maybe it'll push him but this doesn't feel weighty enough for him to risk going up against Trump. I mean think about all the people who have and it only left them poorer? It sure didn't work out for Michael Cohen. The corruption in the DOJ only made that clear. I guess we'll see once we see the actual charges later if the impressions are true today but this feels...light.

Edit: Added some context but the ;tldr is we'll see but hope for accountability is still in the gutter for me.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:30 am**

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:11 am It very much is small potatoes. I will be overjoyed if this leads to something but this feels like Vance trying to justify 3 years of digging with "something".

I will say aside from everything else that we don't know yet about this, it very much matters what the scale and aggressiveness of the conduct was. Which given Trump, could add up to quite a bit. Like I read the other day that Trump was letting Weisselberg live rent free in Trump Tower. Suppose the market rate for that was something like $6,000/month, and that went on for a few decades, that easily gets into the millions. And one imagines that there's considerably more as well.

That said, really my main concern here is that Vance is running the show on this. I'm not an expert on him, but my general sense is that he doesn't have a great reputation for either competence or integrity. Though the NYAG is involved as well, though I'm not sure how long they've been on it.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:34 pm**

Weissleberg is charged with Grand Larceny in the second degree
Trump Org charged with scheme to defraud in the first degree

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:05 pm**

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:30 am
malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:11 am It very much is small potatoes. I will be overjoyed if this leads to something but this feels like Vance trying to justify 3 years of digging with "something".
I will say aside from everything else that we don't know yet about this, it very much matters what the scale and aggressiveness of the conduct was. Which given Trump, could add up to quite a bit. Like I read the other day that Trump was letting Weisselberg live rent free in Trump Tower. Suppose the market rate for that was something like $6,000/month, and that went on for a few decades, that easily gets into the millions. And one imagines that there's considerably more as well.

Yup - good call. It ended up in the 50K - 1M dollar range of 'damages'. FWIW a couple of tv lawsplainers think he might be looking at a minimal jail sentence or probation and fines. Or he flips on a former President with a cult behind him.

That said, really my main concern here is that Vance is running the show on this. I'm not an expert on him, but my general sense is that he doesn't have a great reputation for either competence or integrity. Though the NYAG is involved as well, though I'm not sure how long they've been on it.

Vance is a literal institutionalist. He was raised in the machine, he breathes it, and he has winked and nodded often at elites (including Kushner and Ivanka) which is why I'm glad she is involved.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:19 pm**

Ya this is actually worse than doing nothing. This will just be a big rallying cry for him to run and fix the mess of corrupt people that are wronging him. And this is certainly not going to be anything big enough to make the guy flip on Trump. Oh a fine and probation.. I'm so scared...

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:06 pm**

I wouldn't say this won't go anywhere but this is very underwhelming. I'm waiting to hear any idea what people think about time frames to move forward with the case.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:07 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:09 pm**

I've read Twitter chatter from a few financial types that the indictments around "falsifying records" could spell trouble for the Trump Org. Mainly in the sense that it allows Trump Org financiers to ask for a complete records audit due to the indictment, and gives them an "out" if they do happen to find anything amiss. If the intent were to torpedo the org as a whole, that might be a way to do it.

Otherwise, I agree that this feels like a slap on the wrist.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:14 pm**

Right the big unknown is that the banks might swoop in and destroy the company (and their own investment along with it). It doesn't make much sense to me. Everyone was expecting some Deutsche Bank action or money laundering action and we got something that absolutely no one will care about.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:15 pm**

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:07 pm Popehat stuff

I worked in a town where the Clerk's office had a small locking metal cash safe (like someone would use at a folding table at a little league game if they were keeping money for tickets or hot dogs) labeled "slush fund". It was a cash box used for exactly what it sounds like.

There are days i think I should write a book...to be published after I die.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:20 pm**

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:15 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:07 pm Popehat stuff
I worked in a town where the Clerk's office had a small locking metal cash safe (like someone would use at a folding table at a little league game if they were keeping money for tickets or hot dogs) labeled "slush fund". It was a cash box used for exactly what it sounds like.

There are days i think I should write a book...to be published after I die.

No, that was actually a "Slushie fund" for frequent trips to 7-11.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:26 pm**

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:15 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:07 pm Popehat stuff
I worked in a town where the Clerk's office had a small locking metal cash safe (like someone would use at a folding table at a little league game if they were keeping money for tickets or hot dogs) labeled "slush fund". It was a cash box used for exactly what it sounds like.

There are days i think I should write a book...to be published after I die.

During my first year of law school I interviewed for an unpaid internship with the Rhode Island governor's office where the interviewer spent 90% of the time talking about how corrupt Rhode Island politics was. I was like "sooooo...what I'm hearing is that this isn't actually unpaid?"

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:29 pm**

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:26 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:15 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:07 pm Popehat stuff
I worked in a town where the Clerk's office had a small locking metal cash safe (like someone would use at a folding table at a little league game if they were keeping money for tickets or hot dogs) labeled "slush fund". It was a cash box used for exactly what it sounds like.

There are days i think I should write a book...to be published after I die.
During my first year of law school I interviewed for an unpaid internship with the Rhode Island governor's office where the interviewer spent 90% of the time talking about how corrupt Rhode Island politics was. I was like "sooooo...what I'm hearing is that this isn't actually unpaid?"

My first real 'adult job' was at an institution where there was an office nearby that never seemed to be in use. I later found out it was linked to a State Senator's no show job. Classic NJ.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:37 pm**

Small potatoes is an understatement. In essence, this indictment is based on Weisellberg underreporting his income by $110K per year over the 16 years covered. In Manhattan. That’s a rounding error to these guys.

What’s really funny to me is, this is all about what a cheapskate Trump is.

As I read the indictment, the really bad facts for Weisselberg and the Trump Org are about how they kept a separate set of books to track all of Weisselberg’s perks (rent, parking, utilities, holiday entertainment, etc.). They kept those detailed records so they could be sure to reduce Weisselberg’s income by a corresponding amount. I would think all that could have just been done informally and with a “gentleman’s understanding,” but it seems like Scrooge McTrump’s desire to nickel-and-dime his chief lieutenant and offset his salary by every cent possible precluded that kind of informal arrangement.

In the end, not shedding a tear for Weisselberg’s or the Trump Org. But this does seem like it’s politically motivated and transparent.

Posted: **Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:30 pm**

Kurth wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:37 pmIn the end, not shedding a tear for Weisselberg’s or the Trump Org. But this does seem like it’s politically motivated and transparent.

I don't feel like it is politically motivated per se. It more reeks of doing something to justify all the grandstanding and work they've poured into this investigative adventure.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:35 am**

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:30 pm
Kurth wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:37 pmIn the end, not shedding a tear for Weisselberg’s or the Trump Org. But this does seem like it’s politically motivated and transparent.
I don't feel like it is politically motivated per se. It more reeks of doing something to justify all the grandstanding and work they've poured into this investigative adventure.

Which was largely politically motivated from the start. Not that I'm complaining, but let's call a spade a spade: If this wasn't all connected to Trump, it would be so much "ho-hum, bunch of rich white Manhattan guys playing fast and loose with their taxes."

And I do think the political calculations are continuing. It's not just Vance trying to justify his investigation. It's the hope that Weisselberg will turn on Trump and provide something damaging that can be used against him.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:42 am**

Well sort of. Maybe it is because he is local to me but I've been aware the authorities have been trying to hang charges on him since the 80s at least. In NY and NJ. That he got a much bigger profile might have amplified it but this is hardly the usual political theater. The whole corrupt thuggish family has been flaunting the law openly for decades. They are essentially a white collar organized crime and everyone here knows it.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:53 am**

Does the investigation precede 2015? If not, it's hard to see how it's not politically motivated. That said, don't care. Red flags get people investigated all of the time. DJT sent up a ton of them beginning in 2015 and they were all tied to politics. Illegal is still illegal, Mr "I'm always under audit, what can you do?"

Political or not, in the world of white collar financial crime, so far it looks small, like a waste of resources for little gain. No retribution, no deterrent, very little if any utility. That the TO legal team are claiming claims it's being used to get the CFO to flip, suggests to me the TO legal team knows there's something to flip on, though.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:15 am**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:53 am Does the investigation precede 2015? If not, it's hard to see how it's not politically motivated.

The timing doesn't make it political "motivated" either. More like a political by-product. Trump ran for President and many stories were published indicating corruption and indicated potential illegality. That an official picked up the ball is hardly surprising. In fact, it was essential. That they look like they pulled the punch appears more political to me than the fact that they charged at all IMO.

Political or not, in the world of white collar financial crime, so far it looks small, like a waste of resources for little gain. No retribution, no deterrent, very little if any utility.

That's the rub. You'll get accusations of politicization no matter what. These officials have an important job factor. Pursue a course of action that reinforces rule of law. As you say, I'd estimate it is not even a little bit close enough to counter the corrosion he has inflicted though.

That the TO legal team are claiming claims it's being used to get the CFO to flip, suggests to me the TO legal team knows there's something to flip on, though.

Yeah. Like everyone with 2 brain cells to rub together they know he is a racketeering and thuggish mob boss. They are constantly playing defense to stop people from flipping. It is their main line of defense. Now that Trump has a cult not shy about levying death threats he has even more impunity. That is in essence why he is such a danger still and why the DOJ dereliction of duty to hold him accountable for his documented federal crimes is so distressing.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:55 am**

Kurth wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:37 pm Small potatoes is an understatement. In essence, this indictment is based on Weisellberg underreporting his income by $110K per year over the 16 years covered. In Manhattan. That’s a rounding error to these guys.

What’s really funny to me is, this is all about what a cheapskate Trump is.

As I read the indictment, the really bad facts for Weisselberg and the Trump Org are about how they kept a separate set of books to track all of Weisselberg’s perks (rent, parking, utilities, holiday entertainment, etc.). They kept those detailed records so they could be sure to reduce Weisselberg’s income by a corresponding amount. I would think all that could have just been done informally and with a “gentleman’s understanding,” but it seems like Scrooge McTrump’s desire to nickel-and-dime his chief lieutenant and offset his salary by every cent possible precluded that kind of informal arrangement.

In the end, not shedding a tear for Weisselberg’s or the Trump Org. But this does seem like it’s politically motivated and transparent.

I dunno, I feel like people are underselling these charges a bit. Another way of saying what you wrote is that Weisselberg ran a detailed scheme with meticulous records evidencing intentional tax fraud on $1.6 million. This guy got 4.5 years in prison for that kind of tax fraud on $1 million in income.

Are Weisselberg and Trump Organization also guilty of other possibly more serious crimes? Seems reasonably likely. Al Capone was guilty of more serious crimes than tax evasion. But this also has the upside of seeming pretty provable based on records and without insider testimony. And it's clearly intentional - it's not like this is some borderline issue where they're being charged with violating tax law based on some subjective interpretation of an ambiguous tax provision.

And it seems like it's enough to credibly threaten Weisselberg with jail time (enough to matter for a 72 year old).

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:53 am**

Here's the long form version of my thoughts yesterday. Trump Organization faces potential business risk over indictments

Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance’s criminal charges against the Trump Organization don’t just create legal jeopardy for the former president’s company. They also could damage its business interests — regardless of whether or not a jury ultimately finds the company guilty.

Multiple experts on white-collar crime told POLITICO that it’s unclear how exactly Thursday’s legal developments will impact the company. But they agree that the charges — alleging conspiracy, grand larceny and tax crimes — could bring serious risk to the Trump Organization’s future.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:56 am**

They closed his business school due to rampant fraud. That didn't hurt him in the least bit. I just don't see this even registering on the radar. I'd super love to be wrong though.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:05 am**

Octavious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:56 am They closed his business school due to rampant fraud. That didn't hurt him in the least bit. I just don't see this even registering on the radar. I'd super love to be wrong though.

Ultimately the big question is whether Trump himself will be indicted (by either state or federal authorities) for anything at some point. That's what really matters. If he isn't the rest of this won't matter all that much, even if Weisselberg goes to prison for five years and/or other people in Trump World go to prison as well.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:27 am**

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:05 am
Octavious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:56 am They closed his business school due to rampant fraud. That didn't hurt him in the least bit. I just don't see this even registering on the radar. I'd super love to be wrong though.
Ultimately the big question is whether Trump himself will be indicted (by either state or federal authorities) for anything at some point. That's what really matters. If he isn't the rest of this won't matter all that much, even if Weisselberg goes to prison for five years and/or other people in Trump World go to prison as well.

Agree completely. I just don’t see this turning into that unless something really unexpected happens. And I consider Weisselberg selling out Trump as something really unexpected.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:33 am**

He can just wait out a couple of years and hope to get pardoned by Trump.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:35 am**

Octavious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:33 am He can just wait out a couple of years and hope to get pardoned by Trump.

Not unless Trump gets elected Governor of NY. Which really seems like a stretch now.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:38 am**

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:35 am
Octavious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:33 am He can just wait out a couple of years and hope to get pardoned by Trump.
Not unless Trump gets elected Governor of NY. Which really seems like a stretch now.

Oh that's a solid point. He's got Rudy's kid for that then.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:51 am**

Kurth wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:27 am
El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:05 am
Octavious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:56 am They closed his business school due to rampant fraud. That didn't hurt him in the least bit. I just don't see this even registering on the radar. I'd super love to be wrong though.
Ultimately the big question is whether Trump himself will be indicted (by either state or federal authorities) for anything at some point. That's what really matters. If he isn't the rest of this won't matter all that much, even if Weisselberg goes to prison for five years and/or other people in Trump World go to prison as well.
Agree completely. I just don’t see this turning into that unless something really unexpected happens. And I consider Weisselberg selling out Trump as something really unexpected.

I agree that it seems unlikely that these charges will turn into indictments of Trump absent cooperation by Weisselberg or someone similar. The odds of there being some charges of some type against Trump are harder to assess, but I think they're higher. I don't think there's any shortage of federal prosecutors willing to investigate Trump, nor any shortage of things to investigate. I'm also inclined to think that if Garland or a deputy shuts down or blocks investigations of Trump that someone will leak that, though hard to say for sure.

We'll see, i guess.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:53 am**

Octavious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:38 am
malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:35 am
Octavious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:33 am He can just wait out a couple of years and hope to get pardoned by Trump.
Not unless Trump gets elected Governor of NY. Which really seems like a stretch now.
Oh that's a solid point. He's got Rudy's kid for that then.

Well, it wouldn't be crazy for Weisselberg to plan around Trump possibly becoming president again in 2025. It probably makes sense for him to fight these charges (and try to delay things as much as humanly possible). If the charges continue to stick and he either gets convicted or looks like he's going to get convicted, he can assess the political situation then and whether a Trump restoration seems likely, and if not can always flip at that point.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:26 pm**

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:51 amI agree that it seems unlikely that these charges will turn into indictments of Trump absent cooperation by Weisselberg or someone similar. The odds of there being some charges of some type against Trump are harder to assess, but I think they're higher. I don't think there's any shortage of federal prosecutors willing to investigate Trump, nor any shortage of things to investigate.

The thing I worry about here is the DOJ may be infested with Trump boosters. All the people who swept his problems under the rug are still there. And Garland appears to have institutional instincts to protect the DOJ and the Presidency. Certainly not as extreme as Barr but until we see action I reserve my right to be pretty cynical about chances for societal scale justice at this point.

I'm also inclined to think that if Garland or a deputy shuts down or blocks investigations of Trump that someone will leak that, though hard to say for sure.

Considering the outrageous conduct at the DOJ and the revelations that only came out after the gag orders were released a few months ago...I don't know about this. The DOJ concerns me. It had issues around the 'imperial Presidency' going back years but now we see hints there are deep institutional problems that we simply aren't seeing. It has unhealthy institutional resistance to appropriate levels of transparency with the public (directly, journalistically, or even via Congress). It's not just about politicization and we can't see it even if it is happening.

Posted: **Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:39 pm**

The court systems let's Trump trample on the House

Apparently it takes years to ultimately dodge questions about separation of powers issues. Justice indefinitely delayed is justice as normal nowadays. This also could have easily been cross-posted in the Imperial Presidency thread. The Biden DOJ was opposing the release for the same institutional reasons. Expect future administrations to increasingly stonewall Congress on oversight. They are building an effective legal apparatus for our increasingly certain future authoritarian state.

Congressional Democrats' years-long attempt to nail down whether then-President Donald Trump lied to special counsel Robert Mueller effectively ended on Friday, with the US Supreme Court wiping away court decisions where the House Judiciary Committee was told it could access secret grand jury records from key witnesses in the Mueller investigation.

The House now won't get those grand jury records -- bringing to a close Democrats' pursuit of what witnesses in the Mueller investigation said confidentially under oath about their interactions with Trump and others during the 2016 campaign.

Since 2019, the Judiciary Committee had sought access to records from the Mueller investigation's grand jury proceedings, which were cited in Mueller's report on Russian interference in the 2016 election. The House had repeatedly said it wanted the records so it could consider whether to impeach Trump for attempting to obstruct the Russia investigation, which Mueller also documented.

But over the past two years, the fight plodded through the court system, with the Justice Department under Trump unsuccessfully arguing to block the release of the grand jury documents. The Supreme Court initially had agreed to hear the case, but then delayed it following Trump's loss of the presidency in November.

On Friday, the high court vacated earlier rulings. The Justice Department under President Joe Biden wanted this result, saying the case had become moot. The House didn't oppose the department's move.

But a top lawyer for the House in June noted the case was ending because Trump was no longer President.

Posted: **Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:00 pm**

An understated reaction to what has been a steaming pile of bullshit.

Octopus Overlords

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