Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms

[hepcat]

Do you back a lot of kickstarters? If so, I’d think you’d be used to such a thing. It’s not uncommon…unfortunately. As I mentioned earlier, one of the bigger ones I’m waiting for is 7th Citadel and that’s at two years and counting.

[Fardaza]

I've backed five or six, but none of them took that long.

[hepcat]

I think Smoove, Hentzau and I beat that about 6 minutes after the Kickstarter site went live.

But in any case, I’d say not to worry about it unless it’s a company that you don’t know much about, or that goes radio silent frequently.

…like Blacklist Games.

[Smoove_B]

I've only had a handful that haven't shipped anything and of those, only two legit disappeared from KS with funds and ghosted all backers.

Word on the street is that Robinson Crusoe has started shipping. I'm surprised anyone could get a refund - I figured that window closed a long time ago, but I'm not a backer of that project so maybe I'm wrong.

Someday I'll have only 5 or 6 outstanding projects, but today is not that day...

[Fardaza]

I'm surprised anyone could get a refund - I figured that window closed a long time ago, but I'm not a backer of that project so maybe I'm wrong.

I asked for the refund 2 or 3 months ago. They were kind enough to do it, and the money was back in my account in about 4 days.

[Smoove_B]

Ah, I thought you just asked in the last week. Even still, usually once a game enters the production phase refunds are harder to come by - at least in the dozens (and dozens) of projects I've backed. Good that it worked out for you then.

[hepcat]

If I recall correctly, you could get refunds for Robinson Crusoe before shipping, but you'd also lose 9 percent of the total cost as that was caught up in the charge processing service by a third party vendor.

I wasn't happy with Portal over the delays, but my experience with outright scams (Blacklist Games, Capes and Villains) helps me to see what is just a poorly managed project vs an outright failure in most cases. Portal just took on more than they could produce in the time frame they promised. Plus, I think any project started during or shortly after the pandemic years automatically adds a year to its fulfillment time frame.

As RC is one of my all time favorite games (even more so after the fantastic Mystery Tales expansion), I was willing to grit my teeth and wait for it.

[YellowKing]

I've been lucky in that Freedom Five was the only KS I got a bit burned on from a delay perspective. But I tend to only back reprints of previously successful campaigns or companies that have a proven track record of delivering. That's not due to any snobbery on my part, just a simple matter of having a tight budget.

[hepcat]

I'm definitely more discerning about what I back this day. I tend to also look for reprints and proven companies. Heck, I've even started avoiding first printings of games that are from proven companies because I'm almost assured that new editions are coming in a year or two with everything fixed that was broken in the first edition.

[Smoove_B]

Heck, I've even started avoiding first printings of games that are from proven companies because I'm almost assured that new editions are coming in a year or two with everything fixed that was broken in the first edition.

Unless you're talking about war games. Having just purchased a reprint where they literally reprinted the original rule book with all the errors and just included a 2 page errata sheet. I don't know why war gamers accept this as normal; it's bullshit.

[hepcat]

Oh good christ. Which game is that? I want to avoid that developer.

[Smoove_B]

Oh good christ. Which game is that? I want to avoid that developer.

I'm learning that for war games its usually the writer/creator, not the publisher. If the writer/creator isn't interested in spending the time to update the rules for a new printing, it doesn't get done. Here the game was American Tank Ace and I should have known better as the creator is Greg Smith. He's behind all the WW2 sub games through GMT and those are famously riddled with errors that just keep getting reprinted.

But other GMT (and Compass games) have the rules updated. It's on a individual title basis and it's infuriating that I need to figure this out every goddamn time I make a purchase.

[hepcat]

Thanks, I'll add him to my "no fly" list.

[hentzau]

I think Smoove, Hentzau and I beat that about 6 minutes after the Kickstarter site went live.

But in any case, I’d say not to worry about it unless it’s a company that you don’t know much about, or that goes radio silent frequently.

…like Blacklist Games.

I've only really gotten burned on a couple of KS projects. The one that really hurts was the "line for life" for D-Day Dice. Lots of them have taken way longer than planned for delivery (I'm looking at you, Shadows of Brimstone). Most of the damage I've done to myself, in the form of 3D print files that complete and then I forget to download them.

[hepcat]

So the award for kickstarter that just won't die, I nominate Myth: Journeyman. I just received an email update from them. This project was supposed to ship in 2015.

They're asking folks to update a page with all the items they never received. At this point, I don't even know what I'm missing. But I had just went in on the upgrade stuff for the first Myth, so it's not really a big deal, I guess.

In other news, looks like Final Girl (from the makers of Hostage Negotiator) is shipping now to international backers. The US shipment should have arrived at port last week. I went all in on this one so I should be getting a butt ton of stuff.

Side note: I just received ANOTHER notice that my spriggan figure and cards is about to ship. I'm almost tempted to pull this one out of the closet and give it a go with the 2.0 rules. The quality and look of the game was outstanding (especially for the time it was released), but the mechanics weren't the best thought out.

[Smoove_B]

My expectations for this new version of Myth are ground-level low, but if they somehow manage to pull this off and turn the series into the game it should have been 8+ years ago? Nothing short of a miracle.

[hepcat]

The new rules and most of the updated printed stuff is available for free on Drivethrucards. I just grabbed the 2.0 rules the other day. Of course, my life's goal of hoarding every dungeon crawler ever made will likely slow my interaction with this game down quite a bit. What we need is an industry wide moratorium on dungeon crawlers while I catch up. Can someone draft a legal request for me on this?

[Blackhawk]

I've backed a few things that had significant delays, although my latest right now is the Gotham City Chronicles solo rules, which is currently four months behind, with an estimate to be delivered at around 7 months late, which isn't terrible - late is normal. I've backed a couple where I didn't care about the rewards (I backed because I wanted to support the creator.) I've backed a couple where I've had to go toe-to-toe to get what I was promised (missing parts, etc.) I've also backed a couple that have ended up being huge disappointments (Minipedia fits in here), but that's to be expected.

I've only 'backed' one that ended up being a straight up scam, and only for $1, as sleuths had figured out that too many things didn't add up well in advance, and were very vocal about it in the comments. I dropped down to a buck only because I wanted to see how things ended up going. It's also the campaign that taught me something about Kickstarter. Multiple people provided pages of evidence that the company wasn't real, including their business in Colorado actually being in China, people who were local to them in China going to their other business address (it was a different business) and their mail address (it was a rental box), plus clearly false bios, evidence that the product was stolen from Thingverse, etc.

The company also complained about people pointing these things out in the comments.

Kickstarter responded by removing the warnings from the comments and banning some of the people who reposted them.

End result: 900 people got ripped off to the $54,000, of which Kickstarter got their slice.

It taught me just what Kickstarter, the 'support the startups and creators' site, had become. My rule now is to research. Check the company. Check their other products. Check their other campaigns - specifically, read through the last few pages of comments of their last two or three. How far I go and how much I risk is dependent on the price. I might back a $15 project from an unknown, but I wouldn't back a $200 project from that same company. I'd back an unknown print-to-play game before a physical copy at the same price (fewer logistics = better odds.)

[Blackhawk]

And, uh... *cough*

We won't talk about the campaigns I've backed and haven't used yet. CAV stands high on this list.

[Blackhawk]

I took the opportunity to update my master list (I keep track of what's outstanding, and current delivery estimates.) By some odd coincidence, nearly every item on the list is either due in, or was delayed to, April.

My birthday looks to be an interesting month.

[Smoove_B]

If projects didn't hit the water back in December, it's highly unlikely they'll make it to you before April - assuming production (in whole or in part) was in China. That's one constant I've seen since even before the Pandemic - trying to avoid the February shutdowns in China that invariably delay every aspect of board game production and delivery.

[hepcat]

Yeah, Chinese New Year shipping slowdowns have been a constant for kickstarter projects since kickstarter started. I've lobbied for moving production to the country of Raspur, but apparently that's a non-existent but real-sounding country.*

Spoiler:

*What's Up Tiger Lilly - Woody Allen 1966

[Blackhawk]

If projects didn't hit the water back in December, it's highly unlikely they'll make it to you before April - assuming production (in whole or in part) was in China. That's one constant I've seen since even before the Pandemic - trying to avoid the February shutdowns in China that invariably delay every aspect of board game production and delivery.

Which is why so many of them are slated for April.

[AWS260]

That mention of Myth is sending me back. It was the Kickstarter that taught me to make sure there's a game along with that pile of miniatures you're buying.

I took that lesson to heart. Since then, the only mini-heavy project I've backed was a reprint of an existing game, one that I already knew I wanted to play. Glorantha: The Gods War by Petersen Games.

[hepcat]

Myth had some great ideas...that were poorly implemented. The card mechanic reminds me somewhat of Gloomhaven. Unfortunately, it falls apart after a turns as you realize that the rules sometimes contradict themselves.

[Smoove_B]

I still don't have a game that has replaced Myth in terms of mechanics. Some have a few bits, but nothing has truly replaced it. I am genuinely hoping it can be reborn as amazingly I still think it is unique in the dungeon crawl space.

[hepcat]

You ever get around to trying Assault on Doomrock? I suck at it, but it is a really unique dungeon crawler/tactical skirmish game.

[Smoove_B]

I've been on a miniatures game kick; I should probably be posting in the solo gaming area here as I have been doing a lot of solo play, just not stuff I usually focus on.

I should prioritize Doomrock, yes.

[Zarathud]

Petersen has a solid game there based on Cthulhu Wars, it’s just that he’s a terrible project manager.

[baelthazar]

Petersen has a solid game there based on Cthulhu Wars, it’s just that he’s a terrible project manager.

I have no hope that Hyperspace will ever reach me.

[hepcat]

Which is ironic, given the name of the game.

[baelthazar]

Which is ironic, given the name of the game.

Hit a black hole.

You know it is bad when Sandy Petersen sent out a KS update about how his dad was in his late 90s and he wants to get the game out in time to show his dad before he dies.

I am not joking.

[hepcat]

Jesus Effing Christ, you wanna discuss shitty moves by crowd funding folks? Look no further than the latest update from the indiegogo campaign for professional scam artists Blacklist Games and the new company taking over from them, Steamforged Games.

You want to receive the products for Street Masters you backed and paid for years ago? Sure, just back our new kickstarter!

Fulfilling the Indiegogo Campaign
As well as letting us expand the Street Masters universe with Lament of the Blood Moon, the upcoming Kickstarter also gives us a way to get your Indiegogo pledge to you, without needing to charge you any additional fees, by shipping it to you alongside a Champion Edition pledge.

How will it work?
If you back the upcoming Street Masters: Champion Edition Kickstarter — whether for the new expansion, backfilling gaps in your collection, or both — then we can ship your Indiegogo pledge along with your Champion Edition pledge at no additional cost. Your shipping fee for Champion Edition is the only shipping charge you’ll need to pay.

If you don't want to back it, we'll charge you your full shipping again.

Seriously man, eff you scammers. Eff you to hell.

[Blackhawk]

I thought Steamforged bought the IP/assets outright. At least it looks like they're also offering an option to just pay for shipping separately (although I'm guessing that backers already paid for shipping once.)

[hepcat]

Yes, we already paid for shipping.

I know nothing about Steamforged games and they want me to trust them with NEW content?

[Smoove_B]

I don't have any hate for Steamforged Games - they're trying to save what BLG seriously destroyed.

I do think it would be better if they mailed people outside of the BLG Indiegogo page - to make the separation clear - but I am willing to see where these is all headed in a few weeks, mainly because Street Masters still remains in my top 5 solo games of all time, maybe top 3.

[Blackhawk]

My impression upon reading Steamforged's last couple of updates was that they just phrased it really, really badly. I think they were trying to say, essentially:

"We now have the IP, the backer information, and the assets. But because the previous IP owners were idiots, all of the parts for the games are spread out in warehouses all over the world, and there are a few missing parts they never had manufactured. We'll get those made, and then we'll be bringing it all together and assembling the actual games. We'll ship it to backers, but we can't afford to do that out of pocket, so we'll have to ask for shipping fees. Alternatively, if you back the new campaign, we can combine shipping to avoid charging the extra fees."

But the way they phrased it - and the order they listed the options in - really does make it sound like they're holding it hostage to make people back the new project.

[Blackhawk]

Also, it just occurred to me that "Crowdfunding Logistics Simulator" could be a particularly fun PC business sim. Especially if they had the chops to work some satire in there.

[hepcat]

If they can ship the already done Tide of the Dragon stuff BEFORE they create and ship the Champion series stuff, I'll be less pissed off. But if I have to pay for shipping or back the new expansion, and THEN I have to wait another 2 years for the new stuff before getting the stuff that's already done, I'll REALLY be pissed off.

[Enough]

Took me quite a few hours to sort Oathsworn and I'm still not entirely sure I did it right...but everything is separated and stuffed back in the box.

I pulled Earthborne Rangers out to sort as well and I'll be honest here - I kinda like the pro-environmental approach they took to the packaging. The card sorter is...not great, but it'll do. The game materials (cards and tokens) all feel nice (they're created from sustainable wood pulp) and whatever they printed the manuals on feels fantastic. I was a bit nervous it was going to be a like a cheap newspaper, but it's actually feeling like better quality than most other mass-produced games I own. I also liked that all the card decks were wrapped in paper, not plastic. So much easier to remove and then just recycle.

Anyway, I think Fliptown Flip and Write is coming later this week (or early next), so it's apparently the busy season for KS projects to be delivered...

I have been on the fence on Earthborn Rangers since it has returned to crowdfunding. Now that you have had yours for some months, how are you liking it?