Abortion news and discussion

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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LordMortis wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:31 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:12 am I can't vote for or against him but I vote for my reps. And I've told them straight up that part of their responsibility is to make sure trash like Gaetz can't work and doesn't benefit from his position.
How do I send that message?
Go to their office and leave a note with the staffer. Ask the rep to call you. If you get lucky you may get to speak with them. If you're a member of any sort of group, be it a neighborhood association or board game club or whatever, that helps big time.

Also put pressure on state reps, the GOP is doing their best to control state legislatures. State reps are easy to get a meeting/call with.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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State reps are usually looking for visibility and local good will for election time. If you can say you’ve got a local network, they will often see what they can do.

We’ve gotten support on insulin for diabetics, and school issues because the state rep used to work in our alderman’s office and saw my wife show up to zoning meetings. And CAPS meetings. And get potholes filled using an email list asking neighbors to call the local hotline. This little stuff adds up.

I know a local ward boss who basically says his job is to knock on doors and help make introductions to people who show up. Nicest guy, not like what you’d think.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

Indiana, working for the weekend.


BREAKING: Indiana state senators have narrowly passed a near-total abortion ban during a rare weekend session, sending the bill to the House after a contentious week of arguments over whether to allow exceptions for rape and incest.

The Republican-controlled Senate voted 26-20 after about three hours of debate, passing it with the minimum 26 votes needed to send it on to the House.

The bill would prohibit abortions from the time a fertilized egg implants in a uterus. Exceptions would be allowed in cases of rape and incest, but a patient seeking an abortion for either reason would have to sign a notarized affidavit attesting to the attack.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Gasp.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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That was my shock and outrage. Obvious people obviously doing to obvious thing.

Gasp.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Im shocked republicans can be so cruel and stupid. ..Oh wait no Im not. Wheres the sarcasm emoji??

:violence-guntoting: This emoji seemed to fit republicans thought processes.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:28 pm That was my shock and outrage. Obvious people obviously doing to obvious thing.
I don't think I was surprised that they did it. It was more the fact that they met on a weekend in July to make sure it happened. Never ceases to amaze me at how slow and plodding government can be, until there's a motivated group of people willing to make stuff happen with insane speed.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

Appeals court reinstates Kentucky abortion ban:
A Kentucky appeals court has reinstated a near-total abortion ban that took effect when the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.

The ruling means most abortions are illegal in the state, for now.

Attorney General Daniel Cameron asked the court for an emergency stay, which blocked a lower court’s ruling. That ruling by a Louisville judge last month put two abortion bans on hold so the courts could determine if they violate Kentucky’s constitution.

The state’s two clinics issued a media release Monday night declaring “abortion is now banned in Kentucky,” and said they began canceling scheduled procedures.

The ruling will be appealed to the Kentucky Supreme Court.
Details:
The appeals court said the ban should take effect, even if the laws are in dispute, because in Kentucky, “a statute carries with it the presumption of constitutionality.”

Kentucky’s legislature passed a “trigger law” banning nearly all abortions, except when the health of the mother is threatened, if Roe was overturned. Lawmakers also passed a separate 6-week ban that the clinics also challenged.

The lower court judge, Mitch Perry, ruled on July 22 that there is “a substantial likelihood” that Kentucky’s new abortion laws violate “the rights to privacy and self-determination” protected by Kentucky’s constitution.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by El Guapo »

I wonder if any state Supreme Courts will effectively say that abortion is still protected by a right to privacy under the state constitution.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

I wouldn't even venture a guess at this point. We're in uncharted waters.

In better news:


I've seen enough: in a huge victory for the pro-choice side, the Kansas constitutional amendment to remove protections of abortion rights fails.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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A win is a win.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

Yeah, it's also interesting data


Right now the KS abortion vote has 140,000 more votes than the two governor primaries combined, which means nearly 20% of voters came out just to vote on the amendment
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by stessier »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:53 am Yeah, it's also interesting data


Right now the KS abortion vote has 140,000 more votes than the two governor primaries combined, which means nearly 20% of voters came out just to vote on the amendment
That's the sane interpretation.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

If you read through the comments, Kansas has a closed primary so apparently if you're registered as an Independent (shudders) that's the only thing they were able to vote on yesterday (the proposed Amendment). One of the people said ~20% of the voters in Kansas are Independents (shudders) so who knows.
Last edited by Smoove_B on Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by malchior »

I do think people underestimate how upset women are. However, it also stands to reason this was a ballot with a specific question on *this issue*. It doesn't necessarily translate to a general election. It is however a signal to Democrats they should run on women's rights and try to overcome or moderate that the economy is going to be the overriding variable.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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You mean not all women are willing to be subservient baby vessels? GOP may have to recalibrate a core strategy.

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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:58 am GOP may have to recalibrate a core strategy.
No, I don't think so. I'm guessing it will push them to make sure the ban happens at a federal level in 2024, in the hours after Trump is given the oath of office.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Anecdotally, about half of our new MD hires this month are OB/GYN. Going back a year it's usually maybe 1 or 2 per month. Women's health brain drain from red states may be huge.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I'm beginning to think that nearly anything will get 40%. You just have make sure the 60% turn out.

Eat poo?

Yes: 39%
No: 61%
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

There are days when I think some people intentionally choose professions because they want to deny people service:
A pharmacist in McGregor, Minnesota, refused to fill a woman's morning-after pill prescription because it violated his "beliefs," a lawsuit alleges.
When Andrea Anderson's first contraception method failed in January 2019, she turned to ella, otherwise known as the "morning after pill" or emergency contraception, to prevent a possible pregnancy, the suit filed in Atkin County, Minnesota, said. McGregor, Minnesota, is roughly 122 miles north of Minneapolis.

Anderson got a prescription and had her doctor send it to the only pharmacy in the area at that time, the McGregor Thrifty White pharmacy, according to the court document.

But when she got to the pharmacy, according to the suit, "the pharmacist on duty told her that he would be unable to fill her prescription because of his 'beliefs.'"
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

Eli Lilly announcing some changes after Indiana passes near total ban:


Wow

After the passage of Indiana’s total abortion ban, Eli Lilly, one of the state’s biggest employers, says they’ll be planning their growth outside the state.

Because DUH how are you going to recruit women, aka HALF the population, to a state that outlaws their health care?!?

I’ll be very curious about application numbers this fall for colleges and universities in states that ban abortion, like Indiana.

I have a hard time believing gen z is going to be as interested in moving to those states. Let’s see.

It’s great that employers are offering to pay for travel out of state for their workers to access abortion but…

Maybe people don’t want to travel thousands of miles to access normal health care in the first place.

Jumping in with some truth you guys aren’t going to like:

Companies shouldn’t just ditch states that pass bad laws. They should stick it out, fight back and STOP GIVING MONEY TO BAD POLITICIANS.

Great that Eli Lilly can pack up and leave, but there are tons of people who can’t.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Oh, look. Indiana got me worse.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Smoove_B wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:23 am
Wow
Jumping in with some truth you guys aren’t going to like:

Companies shouldn’t just ditch states that pass bad laws. They should stick it out, fight back and STOP GIVING MONEY TO BAD POLITICIANS.

Great that Eli Lilly can pack up and leave, but there are tons of people who can’t.
Nice sentiment, but a company is made up of people and the people aren't gonna want to stay. My wife and I have already started discussions on where to go as our daughters enter their teenage years.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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When Pence tried his anti-gay marriage amendment shenanigans, it was businesses threatening to pull out, including Eli Lilly (and GenCon!), sports teams refusing to play in Indiana, and other bottom-line actions by companies that resulted in it dying.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Companies shouldn’t just ditch states that pass bad laws. They should stick it out, fight back and STOP GIVING MONEY TO BAD POLITICIANS.
It's corporate communism when MAGA doesn't like US corporations behavior. It's MAGA when they do. Go eat some GOYA and fall asleep on a My Pillow while watching FOX News. More companies should ditch states passing bad laws. Sadly, my state may be joining the bottom. :(
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Meanwhile, states with abortion bans are finding it hard to attract new doctors (especially OB/GYN).
One large medical recruiting firm said it recently had 20 obstetrician-gynecologists turn down positions in red states because of abortion laws. The reluctance extends beyond those interested in providing abortion care, as laws meant to protect a fetus could open doctors up to new liabilities or limit their ability to practice.

It remains unclear how thoroughly career decisions being made amid the upheaval and confusion since the Supreme Court's decision on Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization will translate to a lasting geographic shift. But amid a national shortage of reproductive health practitioners, the early evidence indicates that red states have, at minimum, put themselves at a disadvantage in the competition for crucial front-line providers, experts said.

One large health-care staffing firm, AMN Healthcare, said clients in states with abortion bans are having greater trouble filling vacancies because some prospective OB/GYN candidates won't even consider opportunities in states with new or pending abortion bans.
The reportage, although largely anecdotal, focuses mostly on TX.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

We've moved on to the next phase in Nebraska:


Nebraska Cops Subpoenaed A Teen’s Facebook DMs So They Could Prosecute Her For Having An Abortion
Article:
A Nebraska teenager is facing criminal charges alleging she aborted a fetus in violation of state law, after authorities obtained her Facebook messages using a search warrant. Seventeen-year-old Celeste Burgess, who is being tried as an adult along with her mother Jessica Burgess, is awaiting trial in Madison County District Court on charges that they broke a Nebraska law banning abortions after 20 weeks.

This marks one of the first instances of a person’s Facebook activity being used to incriminate her in a state where abortion access is restricted — a scenario that has remained largely hypothetical in the weeks following the US Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. Nebraska currently outlaws abortions beyond 20 weeks. On Monday, Republican lawmakers in the state failed to secure enough votes to decrease that window to 12 weeks.

Celeste and her mother were charged in July with allegedly removing, concealing or abandoning a dead human body and concealing the death of another person after the Norfolk Police Department received a tip claiming Celeste had miscarried in April at 23 weeks of pregnancy and secretly buried the fetus with her mother's help.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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To be clear, it sounds to me that she is being charged on crimes that don’t mention abortion.

Also, I thought it was the clinics and doctors whom are in a position to ‘break a law’ and that (so far) the pregnant person is not a target. I’m probably wrong about that.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Unagi wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:30 pm To be clear, it sounds to me that she is being charged on crimes that don’t mention abortion.

Also, I thought it was the clinics and doctors whom are in a position to ‘break a law’ and that (so far) the pregnant person is not a target. I’m probably wrong about that.
As I understand it the "person" she is removing and concealing the death of was her unborn fetus. So...she is being prosecuted for having an abortion.

In general abortion laws are written with prosecuting medical providers in mind, although the more radical pro-lifers want to go after the mother as well.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by hepcat »

I'm a little confused on this one. They specifically state "miscarriage" in the article. They don't mention abortion whatsoever. An abortion would be a medical procedure, I would think. I still don't think she should be persecuted or harassed, but I could see investigating to make sure she's okay (although I highly doubt in our current situation that this was their intent) and/or that it happened the way she said (i.e. baby wasn't born and then abandoned to die).

However, the article is brief and ambiguous at times. So I may be completely wrong.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Abortion (broadly) is the termination of pregnancy. A miscarriage is a type of abortion, specifically a spontaneous abortion. It could be caused by any number of things (infections, drugs, trauma, etc...) intentionally or incidentally.

This is why everything is upside down now - the laws in some places aren't specific enough to differentiate between someone that goes to a doctor and receives a medically induced abortion via a set of pills or someone that eats deli meat contaminated with Listeria and experiences a bacterial infection related spontaneous abortion.

To some, they're equivalent.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Isgrimnur »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:34 pm To some, they're equivalent.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Smoove_B wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:34 pm Abortion (broadly) is the termination of pregnancy. A miscarriage is a type of abortion, specifically a spontaneous abortion. It could be caused by any number of things (infections, drugs, trauma, etc...) intentionally or incidentally.

This is why everything is upside down now - the laws in some places aren't specific enough to differentiate between someone that goes to a doctor and receives a medically induced abortion via a set of pills or someone that eats deli meat contaminated with Listeria and experiences a bacterial infection related spontaneous abortion.

To some, they're equivalent.
Ah, thanks. That clarifies a few things for me.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kraken wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:37 am Meanwhile, states with abortion bans are finding it hard to attract new doctors (especially OB/GYN).
One large medical recruiting firm said it recently had 20 obstetrician-gynecologists turn down positions in red states because of abortion laws. The reluctance extends beyond those interested in providing abortion care, as laws meant to protect a fetus could open doctors up to new liabilities or limit their ability to practice.

It remains unclear how thoroughly career decisions being made amid the upheaval and confusion since the Supreme Court's decision on Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization will translate to a lasting geographic shift. But amid a national shortage of reproductive health practitioners, the early evidence indicates that red states have, at minimum, put themselves at a disadvantage in the competition for crucial front-line providers, experts said.

One large health-care staffing firm, AMN Healthcare, said clients in states with abortion bans are having greater trouble filling vacancies because some prospective OB/GYN candidates won't even consider opportunities in states with new or pending abortion bans.
The reportage, although largely anecdotal, focuses mostly on TX.
I think I mentioned it up thread but our most recent monthly doctor hires had way more OB/GYN than usual. Mostly from out of state. Recruiting is not sleeping on this.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by El Guapo »

hepcat wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:05 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:34 pm Abortion (broadly) is the termination of pregnancy. A miscarriage is a type of abortion, specifically a spontaneous abortion. It could be caused by any number of things (infections, drugs, trauma, etc...) intentionally or incidentally.

This is why everything is upside down now - the laws in some places aren't specific enough to differentiate between someone that goes to a doctor and receives a medically induced abortion via a set of pills or someone that eats deli meat contaminated with Listeria and experiences a bacterial infection related spontaneous abortion.

To some, they're equivalent.
Ah, thanks. That clarifies a few things for me.
My reading of the article is that the authorities think that she had an abortion and was falsely claiming to have miscarried. Which itself is terrifying to have prosecutors probing this kind of thing - good thing that we have a major political party focused on limited government!
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Smoove_B »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:41 pm I think I mentioned it up thread but our most recent monthly doctor hires had way more OB/GYN than usual. Mostly from out of state. Recruiting is not sleeping on this.
In the short term it's good, but in the long term, where are OB/GYNs going to be trained? You're going to have entire cohorts of doctors that have never received any type of formal training in anything related to medical abortions just based on where they go to school and have a residency.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by Zaxxon »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:01 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:41 pm I think I mentioned it up thread but our most recent monthly doctor hires had way more OB/GYN than usual. Mostly from out of state. Recruiting is not sleeping on this.
In the short term it's good, but in the long term, where are OB/GYNs going to be trained? You're going to have entire cohorts of doctors that have never received any type of formal training in anything related to medical abortions just based on where they go to school and have a residency.
I would expect a similar trend in medical school/residency/undergraduate enrollment away from the Gilead states.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

Post by stessier »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:34 pm Abortion (broadly) is the termination of pregnancy. A miscarriage is a type of abortion, specifically a spontaneous abortion. It could be caused by any number of things (infections, drugs, trauma, etc...) intentionally or incidentally.

This is why everything is upside down now - the laws in some places aren't specific enough to differentiate between someone that goes to a doctor and receives a medically induced abortion via a set of pills or someone that eats deli meat contaminated with Listeria and experiences a bacterial infection related spontaneous abortion.

To some, they're equivalent.
The article I read said she took pills to end the pregnancy and then reported she had a miscarriage. At 23 weeks, it wasn't legal in her State to end the pregnancy, so they investigated if was really a miscarriage and it apparently wasn't.
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Re: Abortion news and discussion

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Which zero-data communications platform will replace the current social media options, I wonder?
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