Octopus Overlords

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:20 pmA realtor once commented to me that it was the most efficient spend you can do when selling a home.

Man, I'm quite the contrarian today. I had a realtor tell me exactly the opposite! They can't both be right! (and they certainly weren't in our case)

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:23 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:20 pmA realtor once commented to me that it was the most efficient spend you can do when selling a home.

Man, I'm quite the contrarian today. I had a realtor tell me exactly the opposite! They can't both be right! (and they certainly weren't in our case)

Might be the case in the buyer's market, but certainly not in this crazy market - so depends on how long ago you got that advice.

gilraen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:38 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:23 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:20 pmA realtor once commented to me that it was the most efficient spend you can do when selling a home.

Man, I'm quite the contrarian today. I had a realtor tell me exactly the opposite! They can't both be right! (and they certainly weren't in our case)

Might be the case in the buyer's market, but certainly not in this crazy market - so depends on how long ago you got that advice.

It makes even more sense now, though. If people are struggling to even FIND houses (they are), because the inventory is so low, things like how the yard is landscaped tend to get pushed down in terms of priority. My nephew tried to buy I don't know how many houses in the last 2 years, and was constantly outbid, or lost because of timing, etc. People paying WAY above asking, etc. Some really sneaky shit, too, apparently. In that kind of market scenario, I can't imagine buyers being interested in how the yard looked at all.

I guess I lost track to who was arguing which point Yes, I mean that in this market, people will buy anything.

Talk to a realtor who knows your market and would be selling it. They’ll know what people are willing to pay for. And what people are expecting to see.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:49 pm

gilraen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:38 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:23 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:20 pmA realtor once commented to me that it was the most efficient spend you can do when selling a home.

Man, I'm quite the contrarian today. I had a realtor tell me exactly the opposite! They can't both be right! (and they certainly weren't in our case)

Might be the case in the buyer's market, but certainly not in this crazy market - so depends on how long ago you got that advice.

It makes even more sense now, though. If people are struggling to even FIND houses (they are), because the inventory is so low, things like how the yard is landscaped tend to get pushed down in terms of priority. My nephew tried to buy I don't know how many houses in the last 2 years, and was constantly outbid, or lost because of timing, etc. People paying WAY above asking, etc. Some really sneaky shit, too, apparently. In that kind of market scenario, I can't imagine buyers being interested in how the yard looked at all.

Again, I don't think landscaping is comparable to HVAC. If you know you're going to need to spend $5-10K on a new furnace within 12 months of buying a new house, how is that not part of the buying consideration? I bought this house when the housing market was much tighter than it is now (we're not in quite the dearth of available houses these days with interest rates going up, and anecdotally things seem to be staying on the market longer) and it was a consideration. I would have bid higher on this house if it had new HVAC. Would it have made the ROI worth it for the prior owner? I can't say for sure, but just knowing that after buying the house I was going to need to set aside extra money for HVAC had a very real impact on what I was willing to pay for the house. Landscaping? Not so much.

The point of the landscaping isn't some huge re-design. If it is "overgrown" it usually only costs $400-500 (at least here in NJ) to get someone to come in and trim it up, remove overgrown bushes, etc. You'll almost certainly get it back. It depends on the market but the first thing that'll anchor their expectations is when they first see the house.

Well, there's landscaping and there's Landscaping. Getting some curb appeal by having everything look nice and neat is certainly helpful. Paying thousands for a professionally landscaped lawn with tastefully placed trees and a nice deck is going to be hit or miss depending on the tastes of the buyer. I'd be far less interested in doing the latter if I were going to sell in this market, but the former makes more sense because it's cheap and easy.

(That's not to say really nice landscaping isn't a feature. The backyard at my house is meticulously done - but it didn't really move the needle one way or the other on what I was willing to pay for the house.)

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:40 pmThe backyard at my house is meticulously done - but it didn't really move the needle one way or the other on what I was willing to pay for the house.)

boom.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:40 pm Well, there's landscaping and there's Landscaping. Getting some curb appeal by having everything look nice and neat is certainly helpful. Paying thousands for a professionally landscaped lawn with tastefully placed trees and a nice deck is going to be hit or miss depending on the tastes of the buyer. I'd be far less interested in doing the latter if I were going to sell in this market, but the former makes more sense because it's cheap and easy.

This is exactly in line with the advice I got. It's sort of like not vacuuming the house or washing your car before selling it. It's a relatively minor cost that you'll almost certainly get back.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:44 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:40 pmThe backyard at my house is meticulously done - but it didn't really move the needle one way or the other on what I was willing to pay for the house.)

boom.

Huh? We've been agreeing all along (I think) that major landscaping isn't necessarily worth the ROI. Where we disagreed (I thought) was on whether a new HVAC would be. While I don't know for certain whether you'd get your money back on a new HVAC, I suspect you'd at least get close and I know that it definitely can play a role in price of the house.

One more time, comparing landscaping to HVAC just doesn't work.

gilraen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:55 pm I guess I lost track to who was arguing which point Yes, I mean that in this market, people will buy anything.

Which is interesting as the Philadelphia market that I am moving into looks to be cooling off. On the other hand perhaps it is only the prices that are going down and the demand is just as strong as it was.

As far as our overgrown landscape it has always been the toss up between a couple of hundred dollars or practically nothing. The back yard needs at least $500 and probably well over $1k of work but it's not going to get it.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:33 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:44 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:40 pmThe backyard at my house is meticulously done - but it didn't really move the needle one way or the other on what I was willing to pay for the house.)

boom.

Huh? We've been agreeing all along (I think) that major landscaping isn't necessarily worth the ROI. Where we disagreed (I thought) was on whether a new HVAC would be. While I don't know for certain whether you'd get your money back on a new HVAC, I suspect you'd at least get close and I know that it definitely can play a role in price of the house.

One more time, comparing landscaping to HVAC just doesn't work.

Was not booming you per se, just the idea that landscaping (well done, in your example) didn't move the buying needle for you.

Relevant, current, horrible example: I am right now in "virtual" line waiting to buy 2 Taylor Swift tickets for my daughters' Christmas presents. The screen says there are 2,000+ people ahead of me, and I have been waiting here (checks watch) since 2:00 trying to do this. If I ever get in to buy the tickets, I probably won't care if the only ones available come with commemorative Taylor plastic drinking cups or not, @ $40 a pop. With such demand, I am 99% concerned about just being ABLE to buy the tickets. Everything else is details (though I do have budgetary limits of course, but absurdly relaxed from normal for this particular, unsual case).

When people are scrambling to just get the option to put a down payment on a house, before someone else buys it, they tend not to let things like age of appliances or landscaping quality affect their decision. Like you though, anecdotally, it seems like things (around here) are loosening up quite a bit, as I am actually seeing realtor signs in yards again, something I have literally not seen in a couple of years I think.

gilraen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:55 pm I guess I lost track to who was arguing which point Yes, I mean that in this market, people will buy anything.

I saw a listing in our town for a 0-bed, 0-bath house for $300,000. It's a lot with a house that needs to be demolished.

I hope you guys are right and that people will buy anything.

Madmarcus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:35 pm I hope you guys are right and that people will buy anything.

We're in the almost "anything market" right now. "Anything" ended a few months ago when rates started going up.

So I don't need to epoxy my tub and replace the vanity counter top? Clean the grout in the whole house? I could easily be talked into that. LOL I hope the sellers market keeps going another two months.

We are going to a Toyota dealer tomorrow. We need two cars, one urgently, the other less so. Once upon a time, walking into a dealer ready to pluck down on 2 cars could get you a good deal. Now we're lucky if we can get out with just a minor fisting.

Reminds me of the time years ago my mom and I both needed new cars so we went to the Honda dealer and told him we were both in the market and asked what kind of deal we could get if we drove two cars off the lot.

The sales guy told me "We're Honda, we have people lined up around the block to buy our cars. We don't need to cut deals."

So I left and bought a Toyota.

Funny, we actually did that once back in 2005. My wife and I as well as her parents were in the market, went in and left with 2 Camrys.

Got a pretty smokin' deal, in part due to my wife going ruthless mode (for a mid-20s person buying her first car, at least). We were in the Chicago area, and lived in Indy at the time. She gave the salesdrone the prices relative to invoice that we were each willing to pay, and when she got pushback she just told them that we were visiting the parental units for the weekend and it was make a deal then or we'd just continue our process with Indy dealers after that.

I don't remember exact details of the deal, but both cars were 'under' invoice (of course they still get their bucks via holdbacks and the like). Pretty good for 2 very popular cars at the time.

I arrived at the dealership with a 6 yo and a pregnant wife, in a 2-door coupe. The sales guys were licking their chops.

I can't remember where it ended up relative to invoice but I think I did OK coming from an obvious place of weakness. 5 years later they tried to buy the car back for $5K under what I paid.

Wife also wants to stop at the Honda dealer. They are showing about a dozen Oddysey's "Coming soon" ranging from $42K-$54K.

They simply show "0" for either car I might be interested in -- CR-V hybrid or Accord hybrid.

So stopped at first Toyota dealer. Their website incorrectly claimed to have a new Sienna in stock. They did not, they had 2 unsold on allocation (meaning they are not yet produced but VINs have been created and they will be made, probably delivery late December). They had a 2021 used with 25K on it for $54,000. The new ones on allocation - also $54,000. No Camry hybrids, and the dude said the last time he saw an LE was over a year ago (it's the trim with minimal bling and maximum mileage - over 50 mpg, perfect for my needs).

Moved on to another dealership. No new ones in allocation, but they expect more allocation to become available Monday or Tuesday. Meanwhile, they had 2 2022's, one with 12K and the other 18K miles on them. Both were $57K. a 2021 with 85K was $40K. Since my wife really wants an 8-seat car, he showed us a Highlander rated for 8 (as long as 3 are children or Filipinos, which is fine). It's not hybrid, but serves my wife's purpose so she bought it...$38K. MPG is similar to our dear departed Rogue but it's a full size SUV.

Meanwhile, salesdude said the purchase will likely elevate me to priority status when their next allocation arrives next week. He's going to let me know, he said they see Camry LE Hybrids from time to time and was less pessimistic than the first dude. He also said he lost a sale yesterday to a guy who also drives Uber, was replacing a Camry with 700K on it that blew a trans, and whose wife actually found one in Springfield (about 4 hours away).

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:22 pm He also said he lost a sale yesterday to a guy who also drives Uber, was replacing a Camry with 700K on it that blew a trans, and whose wife actually found one in Springfield (about 4 hours away).

700k, Way to go Camry!

And the new furnace is likely off the table!

The second furnace salesman basically talked me out of it. His quote was higher but he also said that he didn't think that the reading the other technician did was enough out of line to require a new furnace or a disclosure. Maybe I'll have moral qualms when we get the real estate person in and actually sign a disclosure but I'd really rather not pay the $8k even if I know that the newness of the furnace was one of the things we liked about the house we are buying.

Roof deck is being installed right now. Just in time for freezing weather!

$18K I think? Can't keep track any more.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:40 am Roof deck is being installed right now. Just in time for freezing weather!

$18K I think? Can't keep track any more.

Something new? That time I was there, it was pretty awesome as-is.

So today I received an email from the manager at Naperville Toyota, offering to buy back the Highlander we bought yesterday and won't take delivery until tomorrow.

For how much more than you paid?

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:25 pm For how much more than you paid?

My brother said the exact same thing!

I'm sure they are not buying for more, but they are certainly selling for more. $54K for a new Sienna vs. $57K for a used one, the difference being the latter is immediately available. Insane.

I need to make a list of suitable cars then start casting a net (True Car does this nicely). While a Tesla is actually in the ball park of what we are willing to spend, it's just not good for what I need it for. For example, Tesla recommends full charge once per week. I need to do so 3x per day when I work a full day. Charging to 80% every time will limit its usefulness by 20%. I really need a hybrid, and those are hard to come by.

EVs lose something like 20% of their range in freezing weather. You get a bit of that there.

I'm going to talk to a Honda dealer today regarding a CR-V hybrid they have allocated.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:43 am I'm going to talk to a Honda dealer today regarding a CR-V hybrid they have allocated.

I shopped those. And RAV4 hybrid. Ended up with a Santa Fe hybrid for many reasons. Very happy with it so far, which says a lot considering it’s me.

My first choice was the Mustang EV but the 12 month wait list (at the time) was absurd (and it’s slightly smaller than I wanted).

Several plug in hybrids were second choice, but impossible to find unless I wanted to treat finding one as a full time job (I did not).

Settled for "normal" hybrid but it’s getting around 38 mpg and considering its size (can comfortably seat my fam of five) I think that’s pretty good.

We use the ‘15 Odyssey for anything longer than about 60-70 miles away, and that thing gets a surprising 27mpg highway considering the weight (esp with 5 ppl). Really shocking how efficient that specific engine is considering it’s almost 8 years old (and was designed well before that obviously).

Jeff V wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:12 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:40 am Roof deck is being installed right now. Just in time for freezing weather!

$18K I think? Can't keep track any more.

Something new? That time I was there, it was pretty awesome as-is.

Replacement after 18 years.

And naturally they didn't get shit done on Thursday and Friday.

So I had just put new blades on my ceiling fan getting rid of some Tommy Bahama looking blades, and I was well pleased with myself. Got motivated and started moving a tall bookcase around without remembering to look up. Wacka, wacka, wacka, what? Broke one of the unusual blade holders completely off and one blade assembly went flying, probably weakened the others too so it's time for a totally new ceiling fan. Sigh.

So went to test drive the Avalon hybrid I put a hold on Saturday.

Fictitiously religious Jeff: "Lord, give me a sign. Should I buy this car?"

Starts car. Radio is playing Sex Pistols.

Car bought.

Are you sure it's not Christine?

No, not sure at all. Christine was black too, wasn't it?

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:41 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:12 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:40 am Roof deck is being installed right now. Just in time for freezing weather!

$18K I think? Can't keep track any more.

Something new? That time I was there, it was pretty awesome as-is.

Replacement after 18 years.

And naturally they didn't get shit done on Thursday and Friday.

My neighbor's deck has been under construction for 2 months. He went with the firm that was my lowest bidder by a lot. My deck cost ~$27K and that wasn't even close to the highest price I was quoted (almost $40K). That lowest bidder quoted me $12K and I've watched his build with interest. I'm glad I didn't try to save the $15K.

My wife’s minivan was totaled after a run-in with a semi (all passengers are OK, thank god.). So now I’m van/SUV shopping.