The politics of bathrooms

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon May 09, 2016 6:33 pm

Solid. Mine went out yesterday.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon May 09, 2016 7:12 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:Solid. Mine went out yesterday.

Is this still bathroom talk?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon May 09, 2016 7:33 pm

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Tue May 10, 2016 7:28 am

YellowKing wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:Ex parte, bitches.
Speaking of ex-parties, I'm mailing off my voter registration change tomorrow to drop out of the Republican party after 23 years. McCrory and his gang of idiots finally pushed me over the edge.

I wish I could find the article that I had read years ago but it argued that, if one lives in a state where the opposite party is in control, it is better to be registered as that party to try and affect change from within. That is to say, by casting a vote as a Republican, one would be able to moderate the voices of extremism and vote for the reasonable candidate.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue May 10, 2016 8:12 am

I never vote in primaries anyway so it won't matter.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue May 10, 2016 8:34 am

raydude wrote:I wish I could find the article that I had read years ago but it argued that, if one lives in a state where the opposite party is in control, it is better to be registered as that party to try and affect change from within. That is to say, by casting a vote as a Republican, one would be able to moderate the voices of extremism and vote for the reasonable candidate.

At some point you have to acknowledge that the people that currently make up the party are such that you are too embarrassed to be associated with them any longer.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue May 10, 2016 9:49 am

To be honest I've been thinking of going independent for several years now, as I realized my views on social issues were drifting farther and farther away from the party. When you get to the point where you disagree with just about half of the party platform, you have to question what the hell you're carrying their banner for.

I know it doesn't make much of a difference to the party in the great scheme of things, but for me dropping out sends a message no matter how small. Who knows, if enough moderate Republicans got fed up with the party being controlled by the extremes and did the same, we might be able to create some change.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 11, 2016 2:38 pm

What in the actual fuck is going on in North Carolina?

A North Carolina school system has adopted a policy allowing high school students to carry pepper spray this fall, a policy one board member said may be useful for students who encounter transgender classmates in the bathroom.

The Salisbury Post reports the policy was adopted by the Rowan-Salisbury Board of Education during a work session on Monday.

Board member Chuck Hughes said using the sprays was purely defensive, and he referenced the North Carolina law that limits LGBT rights, saying such sprays could help female students if they go to the bathroom and don't know who's coming in after them.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed May 11, 2016 3:16 pm

Let's not get carried away. The children of North Carolina aren't that much different than us. They love puppies, candy and horror films featuring those classic monsters, Dracula, Frankensten, the Wolf Man and Rupaul.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed May 11, 2016 3:50 pm

There is a scene in The West Wing where Sam Seaborn (Rob Lowe) is discussing Don't Ask Don't Tell with the brass from the Pentagon and the brass says that the policy works. Sam says it most certainly doesn't work and runs through a series of cases where service people were discharged for being gay - a number of which happened on one base. Sam then asks the general "What the heck is going on at {basename}, general?"

North Carolina's response brought this to mind.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed May 11, 2016 4:29 pm

Smoove_B wrote:What in the actual fuck is going on in North Carolina?

A North Carolina school system has adopted a policy allowing high school students to carry pepper spray this fall, a policy one board member said may be useful for students who encounter transgender classmates in the bathroom.

The Salisbury Post reports the policy was adopted by the Rowan-Salisbury Board of Education during a work session on Monday.

Board member Chuck Hughes said using the sprays was purely defensive, and he referenced the North Carolina law that limits LGBT rights, saying such sprays could help female students if they go to the bathroom and don't know who's coming in after them.

Is he/she stupid? It's against the law for transgenders to use the opposite washroom. Does she understand that there is now a law in place, and that law will prevent attacks from happening?

Law. It solves all problems. Including recently imagined to exist ones.

Anonymous Bosch · Post by **Anonymous Bosch** » Wed May 11, 2016 10:53 pm

GreenGoo wrote:Is he/she stupid? It's against the law for transgenders to use the opposite washroom. Does she understand that there is now a law in place, and that law will prevent attacks from happening?

I would assume, for the simpletons that buy into the necessity of such legislation, there's probably a certain degree of consternation over the enforcement of the law (or lack thereof). Such boogeymen-fearing simpletons are likely to be satisfied with nothing short of the blue-gloved justice of a bathroom TSA ('cuz what good is their law, if nobody is enforcing it?). Absent that, it only makes simpleton sense for young simpletons to protect themselves with boogeyman repellant.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed May 11, 2016 11:21 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:Is he/she stupid? It's against the law for transgenders to use the opposite washroom. Does she understand that there is now a law in place, and that law will prevent attacks from happening?
I would assume, for the simpletons that buy into the necessity of such legislation, there's probably a certain degree of consternation over the enforcement of the law (or lack thereof). Such boogeymen-fearing simpletons are likely to be satisfied with nothing short of the blue-gloved justice of a bathroom TSA ('cuz what good is their law, if nobody is enforcing it?). Absent that, it only makes simpleton sense for young simpletons to protect themselves with boogeyman repellant.

While I understand where you're coming from, my response would be "why haven't you armed your children before now if your concern for bathroom hijinks was so elevated?"

I'm pretty sure attacking children in bathrooms has been illegal for a long time.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu May 12, 2016 8:15 am

That's the logic nightmare that keeps me obsessed over this case.

Before HB2: Anyone could go in any bathroom they wished because there WERE NO BATHROOM LAWS. Nobody cared.

After HB2: You must now use the bathroom that matches the gender on your birth certificate.

So the people who want to revoke HB2 simply want to go back to the time before HB2....you know, when nobody - including the people who are now up in arms - cared.

The legislators have carefully spun this law to the point where revoking it is seen as allowing something that was never allowed before. Which is not the case.

Also, legally is my four-year old son now breaking the law if my wife takes him into the women's bathroom? Fucking idiots.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu May 12, 2016 8:25 am

It's just odd that people seem to think that accommodating transgender people here creates some sort of method for predators to infiltrate bathrooms, like people were unable to walk into other gendered bathrooms before. Before, if someone who clearly looked like a man walked into the woman's room, people would react negatively and ask questions. Now, if someone who clearly looks like a man walks into the woman's room...people will react negatively and ask questions.

It's not like you had to produce papers to walk into the woman's room before, but don't have to now.

I also like the argument I've seen a couple times where adult men are like "boy, if you'd let me into the woman's room when I was 15, I would've taken it!" Really? You're basically saying that the only thing keeping your 15 year old self from assaulting a woman in the bathroom was the risk of getting punished? Which, incidentally, you still would be?

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu May 12, 2016 8:41 am

El Guapo wrote:It's just odd that people seem to think that accommodating transgender people here creates some sort of method for predators to infiltrate bathrooms, like people were unable to walk into other gendered bathrooms before.

I assumed that the law that the City of Charlotte passed implicitly removed the biological-gender tuned force fields that must have been in place to prevent such possibilities before?

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu May 12, 2016 9:06 am

YellowKing wrote:AG Loretta Lynch: BRING IT, BITCH!

DoJ fires back with their own lawsuit. And I like the poetic justice that a North Carolina native (Lynch) is leading the charge to overturn this.

She said it was premature to talk about removing federal funding due to ongoing discussions with the UNC school system.

She brought down FIFA, she can bring down a state.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Fri May 13, 2016 10:29 am

U.S. Directs Public Schools to Allow Transgender Access to Restrooms

The Obama administration is planning to issue a sweeping directive telling every public school district in the country to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity.

A letter to school districts will go out Friday, adding to a highly charged debate over transgender rights in the middle of the administration’s legal fight with North Carolina over the issue. The declaration — signed by Justice and Education department officials — will describe what schools should do to ensure that none of their students are discriminated against.

It does not have the force of law, but it contains an implicit threat: Schools that do not abide by the Obama administration’s interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri May 13, 2016 1:25 pm

One of the counties next to me has already responded that they will be following the guidelines. I'm sure our county will follow suit soon, since the city council released a statement awhile back slamming HB2. It doesn't seem to be very popular here (my county) since we have a pretty large LGBT population.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri May 13, 2016 2:17 pm

Texas

Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick announced Tuesday that The Lone Star State will resist the Obama administration’s directive to allow transgender students in public schools to use the bathroom of their choosing, CBS Dallas is reporting.

Fort Worth

The Fort Worth school superintendent said Tuesday he will not heed Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick‘s request for his resignation over school district guidelines that allow transgender students to use the bathroom that aligns with their gender identity.

Patrick renewed his call during a press conference after traveling to Fort Worth Tuesday, but supporters of schools Superintendent Kent Scribner and the policy called Patrick a bully exploiting “fake outrage” to score political points.

Patrick said Scribner had overstepped his role as CEO of the state’s sixth-largest school district.
...
Patrick on Monday called for Scribner to resign over a policy the superintendent announced last month that directs district employees to “acknowledge the gender identity that each student consistently and uniformly asserts,” allowing them to use the bathroom that aligns with their gender identity.
...
The dueling news conferences were held in advance of a school board meeting where the new guidelines were not on the agenda but were addressed during a rowdy, hour-long public comment period. Supporters of the new guidelines thanked Scribner and the board for protecting transgender students while opponents expressed outrage that the board did not take public comment on them. They also called on Scribner or the board to repeal the guidelines and start over.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri May 13, 2016 2:23 pm

Good lord.

How did this ever become an issue that anyone cared enough about to turn into a law specifically created to fuck over transgender people?

Just go to the bathroom. Stop minding other peoples' business while you're in there.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 13, 2016 2:40 pm

GreenGoo wrote:Just go to the bathroom. Stop minding other peoples' business while you're in there.

Like you never get uncomfortable when the guy at the urinal next to you actually turns to look at you and then starts holding a conversation.

Heck, if there are five urinals in a bathroom and say I take the second one and someone walks in I get uncomfortable when they take the first or second urinal, rather than the fourth or fifth urinal.

But to be honest, if I am in a cafeteria style environment, I get uncomfortable is someone sits at the same table as me or if someone I don't know is trying to strike up a conversation or if I go outside to mow the lawn and there is already a neighbor outside doing yard work or going to work after taking a day off. I got issues.

Can I just have a stall please? If a bathroom is all stalls, then yeah, if you want to be a woman coming in while I'm stinking up the joint, that's fine... Except I get always uncomfortable mining explosive amounts of intestinal methane if someone is in the stall next to me... Unless I know I can complete the action, clean up, and get out of the bathroom before they can ever see who I am... Or wait them out, so they leave before I open the stall door. Did I mention I got issues?

But here's where I have a real problem. You ever go to a show? Dude's bathroom? Step in line. Step forward every few seconds. Take a whiz. Get out. Dudette's bathroom? Line is around the block and doesn't move between when I get in line and when I leave. Don't go bringing that kind of wait to my beer recycling process. The second I have to wait twenty minutes to pee, then I'm all about laws protecting my privilege to speedy urination.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri May 13, 2016 2:51 pm

I'm pretty sure the number of transgendered people trying to use the bathroom at any given time...and in any place... is way, way lower than what you fear.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Fri May 13, 2016 2:57 pm

Yeah cuz you're life isn't hard enough as trans. Fuck these Neanderthals.

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YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri May 13, 2016 2:59 pm

This isn't about transgender people. It's about men walking around dressed as women in order to infiltrate a public women's restroom and rape women and molest little girls. Or women putting on fake mustaches so they can walk in a men's room and look at my son's wee-wee.

Without this law, we've given those freaks a free pass. A free rapist wee-wee looker pass. Just roll out the red carpet.

Plus there are plenty of gender neutral bathrooms for transgenders. It's called their house. They can hold it because they have two sets of genitals which equals twice the pee storage.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 13, 2016 3:08 pm

YellowKing wrote:It's called their house.

That's the option I prefer... Well, my house. Not their house. I only know one transgender person and I've never used their bathroom, though I did see Guardians of Galaxy there and salivated over their three different models and media types of 3D printers, even if I don't really have a need for one 3D printer.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri May 13, 2016 3:11 pm

LordMortis wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:Just go to the bathroom. Stop minding other peoples' business while you're in there.
Like you never get uncomfortable when the guy at the urinal next to you actually turns to look at you and then starts holding a conversation.

Er, that's an example of someone not minding their own business.

In any case, bathroom etiquette is different in different cultures. That doesn't make someone behaving outside of your cultural norms a likely rapist.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri May 13, 2016 3:14 pm

YellowKing wrote:This isn't about transgender people. It's about men walking around dressed as women in order to infiltrate a public women's restroom and rape women and molest little girls. Or women putting on fake mustaches so they can walk in a men's room and look at my son's wee-wee.

Without this law, we've given those freaks a free pass. A free rapist wee-wee looker pass. Just roll out the red carpet.

Plus there are plenty of gender neutral bathrooms for transgenders. It's called their house. They can hold it because they have two sets of genitals which equals twice the pee storage.

Might as well put out a neon sign with giant flashing arrows pointing into the bathroom with "free raping here!" in bright lights. That's what states without their own HB2 are doing, you know.

No body ever thinks of the children. That's the problem in today's society.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Fri May 13, 2016 3:51 pm

Smoove_B wrote:What in the actual fuck is going on in North Carolina?

A North Carolina school system has adopted a policy allowing high school students to carry pepper spray this fall

Seems like a good solution for bullying. Identify all the nerds and let them carry pepper spray. Or maybe anyone with an "A" average is allowed to carry pepper spray. Bullies were usually the dunces so that would make sense. Maybe exclude anyone in a sport from being able to carry, sometimes it wasn't only dunces.

I never had any bathroom problems in school because I just held it till I got home for my entire education. I think I saw the inside of a school bathroom twice in thirteen years of education, if you count kindergarten.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri May 13, 2016 4:26 pm

Texas

Texas’ lieutenant governor says the state is prepared to forfeit billions of dollars in federal funding for public schools following an Obama administrative directive over bathroom access for transgender students.

Republican Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick said Friday that Texas “will not yield to blackmail” and urged superintendents to defy the new federal guidance. The directive says public schools are obligated to treat transgender students in a way matching their gender identity.
...
Patrick says Texas receives roughly $10 billion in federal education dollars. He didn’t say how that money might be replaced. Patrick’s remarks came only moments after more than half the state’s 1,200 school districts lost a major lawsuit claiming that Texas unconstitutionally underfunds public schools.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri May 13, 2016 4:30 pm

LordMortis wrote: Heck, if there are five urinals in a bathroom and say I take the second one and someone walks in I get uncomfortable when they take the first or second urinal, rather than the fourth or fifth urinal.

If I was at the second urinal and someone came in and also started using the second urinal, I'd be a little uncomfortable, too.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri May 13, 2016 4:31 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
GreenGoo wrote: Heck, if there are five urinals in a bathroom and say I take the second one and someone walks in I get uncomfortable when they take the first or second urinal, rather than the fourth or fifth urinal.
If I was at the second urinal and someone came in and also started using the second urinal, I'd be a little uncomfortable, too.

How many times must I apologize before you let that go?

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri May 13, 2016 4:47 pm

The Texas thing is a perfect example of how bathroom bill supporters have tried to flip this as "government overreach." As if things were going along swimmingly, then suddenly the government - out of nowhere - came in and forced us to allow men in women's restrooms. (Notice how they conveniently generalize this as if all men will suddenly overnight decide to just enter women's restrooms willy-nilly.)

When in fact, the states provoked this fight by stealthily passing discriminatory laws with nobody's input. It's like the kid getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar and then crying because his mom found out and is now "bullying him" into putting it back.

It's a notable effort at spin, but we all know who the real legislators of bathroom law were. The government's not creating anything - they're trying to remove it.

The real irony in all this is that by making these laws and not just leaving things as they were, the states are going to wind up in a worse position than they were going into it. Because almost assuredly if the US wins their case, there is going to be language written that prevents this kind of thing from ever happening again.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri May 13, 2016 4:55 pm

More from Texas.

Superintendent Dr. Rodney Cavness of the Port Neches-Groves Independent School District has decided to shred the Obama administration's directive that states transgender students must be allowed to use restrooms of their choosing, and cannot be discriminated against. News of the decree, which is being sent to every school district across the country, broke Thursday night, and immediately Cavness was speaking with 12News anchor Kevin Steele.

"I got news for President Barack Obama. He ain't my President and he can't tell me what to do," Cavness told Steele. "That letter is going straight to the paper shredder."

"I have 5 daughters myself and I have 2,500 girls in my protection. Their moms and dads expect me to protect them. And that is what I am going to do. Now I don't want them bullied... but there are accommodations that can be made short of this." Cavness adds he think President Obama "is destroying the very fiber of this country. He is not a leader. He is a failure."

Cavness, whose district includes 11 schools, then spoke with KDFM News, saying, "What Obama is doing isn't leadership. He's not a leader. I'm going to provide leadership. I'll fight for those kids until I don't have a breath left in my body."

"I don't recognize President Obama. I expect a President to be a strong, fearless leader. Nothing he does has any shred of leadership. It's ridiculous. In the great state of Texas it's sad we're even having to talk about this foolishness. I know most Texans support what I think. Take a look around. Look at Detroit. Look at Chicago. Look at various places around the country that have had 20 or 30 or 40 years of zero leadership or left-leaning leadership. Look at their condition and their state. The government doesn't fix anything. They only create problems. The only way to do that is personal responsibility. If people choose to live like that, you have the freedom to do what you want in this country. But at the same time, it's getting forced down people's throats and it's not the way to do things. People might be more receptive if it wasn't crammed down our throat every time we turn the television on."

The Superintendent apparently is unaware that the federal courts are already beginning to agree that discrimination against transgender people is sex discrimination, and thus transgender students are protected under federal law.

"The government doesn't fix anything," says the government administrator.

milo · Post by **milo** » Fri May 13, 2016 6:03 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: "The government doesn't fix anything," says the government administrator.

And he can prove it!

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri May 13, 2016 6:34 pm

Oh man, this is rich. Pat McCrory chimes in:

President Obama's administration has instituted federally mandated edicts that affect employees as well as every parent and child within a public school system. This national bathroom, locker room and shower policy for almost every business, university and now K-12 school in our country changes generations of gender etiquette and privacy norms which parents, children and employees have expected in the most personal and private settings of their everyday lives.

You mean the "generations of etiquette" that allowed people to just pee in peace BEFORE HB2?

"Most Americans, including this governor, believe that government is searching for a solution to a problem that has yet to be defined.

Oh really? Imagine that. Searching for a solution to a problem that has yet to be defined. Why does that sound so familiar?

"Now, both the federal courts and the U.S. Congress must intercede to stop this massive executive branch overreach, which clearly oversteps constitutional authority.

Um, nope. Go back and re-read the Constitution.

"Both non-discrimination and privacy are basic tenets of our great country. States and local governments cannot have a myriad of different laws which cause confusion and inconsistent application.

There was no law until you created one. So who exactly is responsible for causing the confusion? And the government is not breeding confusion - they're saying "Hey, don't discriminate against people." Seems pretty clear to me. I also find it hilarious that you think differing laws between states and cities is an exception rather than the norm.

"However, the executive branch of the federal government does not have the authority to be the final arbiter. We all must work together to seek answers and common sense clarification

There's that "common sense" term being thrown out again, as if he says it enough times it will become reality. The only person lacking common sense is you, you idiot.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Fri May 13, 2016 6:47 pm

The ironic thing is that common sense more often than not turns out to be completely wrong. We need less common sense, not more.

Xmann · Post by **Xmann** » Sat May 14, 2016 9:11 am

Would it not be cheaper for the federal government to force transgendered folks to have a colostomy and/or place a foley catheter before leaving home? That seems like a reasonable solution to me.

I wish I lived in that school district in Texas so I could support those good folks down there. Maybe the Mrs and I will discuss a move, atleast while my son is still in school.

I'll need to discuss this with my 13 year old first. I'm sure this has been a hot debate amongst him and his buddies during recess. I do believe I remember him saying they have given up playing football for bathroom policy.

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YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sat May 14, 2016 9:23 am

I read a good article outlining the details of the federal school guidelines, and it specifically states that the student's gender identity must be confirmed by a parent or guardian. So despite what opponents say, this isn't an open door policy to allow boys to just waltz into the girl's room at will.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat May 14, 2016 11:46 am

Xmann wrote:Would it not be cheaper for the federal government to force transgendered folks to have a colostomy and/or place a foley catheter before leaving home? That seems like a reasonable solution to me.

I wish I lived in that school district in Texas so I could support those good folks down there. Maybe the Mrs and I will discuss a move, atleast while my son is still in school.

I'll need to discuss this with my 13 year old first. I'm sure this has been a hot debate amongst him and his buddies during recess. I do believe I remember him saying they have given up playing football for bathroom policy.

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Did he get his school board mandated pepper spray? Does he wants some? That might be a key selling point for him when you discuss moving.