HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Rumpy wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:33 pm As it is though, season 2 doesn't have great payoff for what they put viewers through.
I kept hoping. There were so many things I hated but I kept hoping it was my own misunderstanding and at the end I would be like "Oh. Ok. It was just my poor comprehension." I could make a long list of things I couldn't get past.

Season 1 played with narrative in a fascinating way. Season 1 had allegories that were fascinating. Season 1 had acting, direction, and set desing that was amazing. Season 1 dealt with social issues. Season 1 fit together like putting in pieces of puzzle. Season 1 had a soundtrack that was so good, it was sometimes a distraction.

Not spoiler, but character talk in show that invites you to think about, well, everything, in front of someone deciding to pay to see the show, so....
Spoiler:
The worst thing about Season 1. Mev's character was a distraction that took me out of the narration (Ironic, huh). Mev's character was the only redeeming factor I can remember from season 2. She was what I had hoped Teddy would become when it was clear Delores was going to be ruined for season 2. Like there was reason they'd essentially end her amazing season 1 narrative with whatever it is they were trying to say in season 2. Then there were two minor characters in season 1, ruined for totally different reasons. I feel bad for one of actors. Her character in season 2 was so bad, so off putting to the story, so nonsensical, and usually involved in these instant movements from one area to another, that's all I see when I see her other things.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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LordMortis wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:07 am I kept hoping. There were so many things I hated but I kept hoping it was my own misunderstanding and at the end I would be like "Oh. Ok. It was just my poor comprehension." I could make a long list of things I couldn't get past.
Yeah, so did I. Kept hoping that there'd be a point to all of the obfuscation. But really, it was just some really weak writing. I found it rather telling that the strongest episode that season also was more straightforward. That one was more along the lines of Season 1.

Well, at least they didn't pull a House of Cards. Now that was disgusting.

I have a deep respect for writers and producers and creators of entertainment, but I tend to feel it's a two-way street. There seems to be a penchant these days for those in charge of a property to be expecting respect and while unable to take criticisms and admit their errors, acting like anything they touch is sprinkled with unicorn dust. They expect automatic respect but don't respect their viewers in return and then stroke their own ego calling their writing "brilliant". Viewers aren't blind nor stupid. Maybe I'm overreacting, but it annoys me.
LordMortis wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:07 am
Spoiler:
The worst thing about Season 1. Mev's character was a distraction that took me out of the narration (Ironic, huh). Mev's character was the only redeeming factor I can remember from season 2. She was what I had hoped Teddy would become when it was clear Delores was going to be ruined for season 2. Like there was reason they'd essentially end her amazing season 1 narrative with whatever it is they were trying to say in season 2. Then there were two minor characters in season 1, ruined for totally different reasons. I feel bad for one of actors. Her character in season 2 was so bad, so off putting to the story, so nonsensical, and usually involved in these instant movements from one area to another, that's all I see when I see her other things.
Spoiler:
Yeah, agreed on Maeve. It was pretty much character assassination. It seemed like they were going somewhere with it at the end of season 1 and then hit a reset for Season 2, but at the same time she had the most straightforward story in season 2. Honestly, that's part of why I'm not a big fan of hosts resetting. It's too much of an easy way out and it provides less character development. Dolores' change in character was off-putting. She was so stuck on vengence at the expense of everything else, which made for a far less interesting and less nuanced character. As for Teddy, I was constantly annoyed by him for some reason I can't remember. It's like he was playing the prince to her princess hopefully saving her out of a situation, but the writers never fully committed to it.
Last edited by Rumpy on Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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My memory is vague but I believe the strongest episode was
Spoiler:
when Mav began to appreciate life outside of her own anger/ambition. It made her less one dimensional and gave me more empathy for her. Somewhere in Samurai World, she empathized with running a geisha house and the fact the much of the what they were seeing was the same as in WestWorld, which set up her caring about the child who was in no way an analogy to bond with he own child. It was the only time I really cared about what was happening or who was happening. I don't know if that is the same episode.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Honestly, I'd forgotten that one.
Spoiler:
The Samuarai episode was indeed quite neat and I wished they had spent more time there. In fact, I could have used a whole season set there. But for me the strongest episode was the Akacheta episode. It was a simpler more direct kind of story and was one of the stronger moments of Season 2. That signified to me, 'yeah, they have good writers when they apply themselves, when their talents aren't wasted on a convoluted timeline mess'.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by LordMortis »

And I had forgotten the episode you mention. I had to look it up. I can't remember if I liked it well enough or not. I guess it didn't leave an impression. :(
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by Smoove_B »

Just finished S2 last night. I enjoyed the entire thing - start to finish. Maybe it's because of the "binge" watching (and not needing to wait 10 weeks for it all to unfold), but I really enjoyed the whole arc. I'm also glad they added the post-credit "secret" ending. I suspected it, but it confirmed my thoughts and did a great job of explaining the "why". After hearing such mixed reports on the second season, I was glad to see they were unfounded (for me).

EDIT: Hmm..now that I've read a follow up on the after-credits ending, I'm confused again. Damn this show and their timeline shifting. :D
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:17 pm After hearing such mixed reports on the second season, I was glad to see they were unfounded (for me).
We watched different shows. But fortunately, my memory is short for things like this, as is exampled by what was probably the whole episode Rumpy mentioned. I had completely forgotten about, as at the time, it felt like the side plot of half hour sit com, there to explain small details tied together at the end of the episode.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by Smoove_B »

I really feel so many shows are written as ~9 hour movies but they lose something when they're broken up over 10 weekly 60 minute episodes. S3 of Stranger Things felt like one giant movie and releasing it all at once encouraged a quick watch of multiple "episodes" back to back. I cannot imagine I would have enjoy it (or Westworld) if I was forced to watch them every 7 days. It was the same for me with S1 of this show - I just blasted through everything in a half a week.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Spoiler:
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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I think it is foolish to be excited for S3 at this point, but here I am. I haven't decided if I will wait and binge or watch it as it comes. Wait and binge will be cheaper as I will have to pay for something to watch it.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Going to wait and binge as that really worked out for me in S1 and S2, in terms of enjoyment and coherence.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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I'd consider binging S2 to see if it helps, but I don't want to risk spending that much time reliving my disappointment.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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I'd honestly be surprised if it works better binging it. That tactic usually works best when there's a coherent story to follow. If anything, it just might emphasize just how sloppy the writing is. A curious side-effect of binging is that some shows work best from week to week, but the minute you watch them back to back, they feel more like exaggerated swings from a pendulum, going from brushes with death, to conspiracies, to things that threaten the existence of mankind. I just worry that the swings in this show will be all that really appears without anything substantive.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Binging was fantastic for season 1. Heck, I binge watched it a second time before binge watching season 2. Binging shown a spotlight on what a mess season 2 was. I'll watch this thread to see if it's worth season 3. I can't see how you recover from season 2. I'm having a hard time remembering a redeeming feature. I have a vague memory of being pleasantly surprised that Meav was transformed from a character arc I hated into one I that was done well. I have a vague memory of thinking Delores' change to righteous, while Teddy was a moral compass was going to be very interesting and then, nothing...

My clearest memory of season 2 is how terribly small this megacomplex of worlds was compared to how vast WestWorld itself was. I have many memories of season 1.
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I liked season 2. What can I say.
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LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:19 pm Binging shown a spotlight on what a mess season 2 was.
That's what I thought :/ I think the writers need to get off their high horse and acknowledge that the show had problems. By acknowledging problems, they can get to figuring out what needs to be done to make a better season, but somehow, I don't think they've learned their lesson. With season 2 they've almost lost me. At this point, I'm debating if I'm going to bother with the 3rd season. It's crazy to think that a show with both Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris could turn out to be so bad.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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hepcat wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:07 pm I liked season 2. What can I say.
Me too.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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FWIW, I loved season 1, but just got incredibly bored with season 2 and drifted off. I think it was after the Japanese World episode - the episode was fine, but at the end I was just overcome with the realization that I did not care anymore about any of the characters or whatever would happen to them. Kind of weird after how into season 1 I was. Oh well.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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I cannot wait for S3, even given S2’s failure to live up to expectations. And that trailer is fire.
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I am really struggling to find any kind of desire to continue season 3 after nearly falling asleep after both of the first two episodes. It feels like a bargain basement version of Bladerunner so far.
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Post by em2nought »

So just stop at the end of season one if that's as far as you've gone?
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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I'm enjoying the third season. It's no Watchmen, but it's interesting with some good twists so far.
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It's pretty boring so far and a bit too convuluted.
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There have been some twists I wasn't a fan of, but overall I think it's great. This is a near-future that actually feels real for once, and it's scary.

Perhaps mentioning Watchmen is apt. Would Westworld have been stronger had it ended after one season? Yes. But don't think I don't want a Watchmen season two even though I know it will probably be a little disappointing.

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Loving S3, but it is a departure from prior seasons. Being in the real world rather than in the parks takes it pretty far away from the feeling of the first two seasons. That said, I like what they've done with the future real world, and setting it in Singapore is amazing. Definitely going on my list for places I'd like to visit.

Also, Maeve continues to be amazing.
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Post by Smoove_B »

S4 Trailer:


Season 4 premieres Sunday, June 26 on @HBO and @HBOMax.
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Wow, wasn't expecting that. I ultimately found season 3 to be a big letdown, but I'm willing to give it another shot.
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coopasonic wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:53 am I think it is foolish to be excited for S3 at this point, but here I am. I haven't decided if I will wait and binge or watch it as it comes. Wait and binge will be cheaper as I will have to pay for something to watch it.
It's like I'm in a time loop and it all seems to be the same each time with little variations and some recollection of past experience.

At least this time I don't have to pay to watch it, thanks ILB AT&T.
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hepcat wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 10:29 am Wow, wasn't expecting that. I ultimately found season 3 to be a big letdown, but I'm willing to give it another shot.
So many shows had a glorious first season and it all fell down after. Heroes, The Walking Dead and Westworld have all done this to me. You'd think I would learn my lesson. If the second season doesn't hold up, just walk away. Or, you know, keep watching because maybe one day they will recapture the magic!
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by hepcat »

Sometimes a show can pull itself back together after a bad outing (which, to be fair, is just my personal opinion...I believe others liked season 3). You never know. Season 3 of BJ and the Bear managed to recapture the magic by focusing on the internal monologue of the monkey and his quest for freedom from human rule..
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hepcat wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 10:29 am Wow, wasn't expecting that. I ultimately found season 3 to be a big letdown, but I'm willing to give it another shot.
+1. I hope the new season is set back in Westworld again. Hopefully the long break between seasons will lead to better scripts this time.
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Dont watch shows but watch clips and can get the gist of stuff. Seems like almost everything degenerates into soap opera'ish stuff after a while now.
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Daehawk wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:12 pm Dont watch shows but watch clips and can get the gist of stuff. Seems like almost everything degenerates into soap opera'ish stuff after a while now.
I got the same gist from watching clips of John Wick, Independence Day, all of the Fast and Furious movies, Rambo 1 through 27 and the original Ghostbusters.
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It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Side note: I loved Soap. :wub:
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You watched all the Fast and Furious movies? God bless you sir. I bailed early.
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Post by malchior »

Kraken wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:52 am
hepcat wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 10:29 am Wow, wasn't expecting that. I ultimately found season 3 to be a big letdown, but I'm willing to give it another shot.
+1. I hope the new season is set back in Westworld again. Hopefully the long break between seasons will lead to better scripts this time.
We actually gave up on S3. I know a couple of other folks in my orbit who did the same.
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Daehawk wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 1:10 pm You watched all the Fast and Furious movies? God bless you sir. I bailed early.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Daehawk wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:12 pm Dont watch shows but watch clips and can get the gist of stuff. Seems like almost everything degenerates into soap opera'ish stuff after a while now.
I would argue that you're not really getting the gist of stuff if that is your conclusion.

I didn't hate season 3 the way a lot of people did, so I'm in for season 4.
coopasonic wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 10:31 am
coopasonic wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:53 am I think it is foolish to be excited for S3 at this point, but here I am. I haven't decided if I will wait and binge or watch it as it comes. Wait and binge will be cheaper as I will have to pay for something to watch it.
It's like I'm in a time loop and it all seems to be the same each time with little variations and some recollection of past experience.

At least this time I don't have to pay to watch it, thanks ILB AT&T.
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