HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by GreenGoo »

Ok, all done. I'll go back and read some of the spoilers tomorrow.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by LordMortis »

Watched it. Really liked it. Lots and lots of positives. Two big initial impression criticisms,

1) I didn't think Meave's story needed to be there and while I assume it's a prologue to season 2, it still didn't need to be there. It's a sore thumb on a story that otherwise fit together nicely.

2)
Spoiler:
The big reveal of protagonist talking to themselves thing is just too overdone in current story telling and I don't think they brought enough to the table to justify using it and I think they used the device of story out of time to enhance that reveal. The story of time was elegant by itself but feels cheapened as an excuse to hide the solution to "the maze." This has become my version of An Occurance at Owl Creek Bridge or "it was all just a dream". It feels like an eye rolly lazy excuse unless you do something really special. I think that's what I liked about Mr Robot. It took the unreliable Sibyl narrator, fed it to you from the beginning, and used it as a launching point for the story rather than the ending.
One smaller one. The soundtrack to the first episode was so perfect, so much so that that lack the consistent use of a perfect soundtrack episode after episode was noticeably sad for me. I don't normally pay attention to soundtracks that much.

The negatives seem like small disappointments compared to the so much I liked about it though. I absolutely loved the commentary of VR and Trolls and MMOs and telling the story out of time without calling attention to itself while concurrently not trying to hide that it was out of time and so, so many other things. I really liked how they invited you think about so many details around inconsistency and "error correcting" without screaming "see how clever we are."


And lastly by episode two I was stuck on the thought "This is Teddy. Teddy dies in West(world) Park."


In short, in a world where I'm not attracted to too much TV anymore and remakes don't appeal to me, I loved it.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Well, I'm glad I started watching it via OnDemand as soon as it was finished its run, because I've noticed that a few days later, episodes started disappearing from the list. Classy.

As for the show itself, it took time, but it grew on me. At first, I wasn't quite sure about it. You could say that a lot of it has a surreal style to it, which sometimes makes it hard to follow. There really is quite a bit of detail to take in.

Speaking of details, in the 2nd episode I noticed Black Hole Sun playing on the player piano. That was really cool, and it happened right before Ed Harris' character first showed up. Since then, I was trying to see what else I could recognize from that piano. I think Crazy also played in one of the later episodes.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by YellowKing »

Rumpy wrote:Since then, I was trying to see what else I could recognize from that piano. I think Crazy also played in one of the later episodes.
They played a ton of Radiohead, most notably stuff from OK Computer which is an album whose themes heavily suggest the darker side of technology.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Rumpy wrote:Well, I'm glad I started watching it via OnDemand as soon as it was finished its run, because I've noticed that a few days later, episodes started disappearing from the list. Classy.
It's because Rogers are total dicks. As far as I can tell. They will also put up a full season of something but leave out episode #x, just because.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by Rumpy »

GreenGoo wrote:
Rumpy wrote:Well, I'm glad I started watching it via OnDemand as soon as it was finished its run, because I've noticed that a few days later, episodes started disappearing from the list. Classy.
It's because Rogers are total dicks. As far as I can tell. They will also put up a full season of something but leave out episode #x, just because.

And I'm not on Rogers, but they might be providing the content. Makes it hard to follow something if it's not all there.

On the other hand, I've noticed they added Deadwood was recently, and with Hell on Wheels done and Westworld done, I'm watching that next.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by Smoove_B »

Not sure if anyone else has been monitoring the situation, but you can pick up S1 of Westworld via Amazon Digital in HD for $29 today. No idea when it dropped (from $39) or how long it will last, but I figured I'd share. Mods can embed an OO link if they'd like.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by Smoove_B »

Really? Nobody watched the Season 2 premier the other night?
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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I watched it, but I was having a hard time with the audio and was struggling to hear the dialogue. I then remembered it was an issue with Season 1, but it seemed worse this time around. I've fiddled around with the TV's sound settings and I think it's a bit better now. Just a regular Stereo setup without any fancy surround sound.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by em2nought »

Seems like a ton of shows really drop the ball on their audio in this day and age. Hard to hear much of the dialogue over all the other noise on many shows. I'm hoping to find Westworld Season 1 at the pawn shop one of these days. lol
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Rumpy wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:41 pm I watched it, but I was having a hard time with the audio and was struggling to hear the dialogue. I then remembered it was an issue with Season 1, but it seemed worse this time around. I've fiddled around with the TV's sound settings and I think it's a bit better now. Just a regular Stereo setup without any fancy surround sound.
I have that issue on shows that have a clear Dolby 5.1 mix when I watch on my parents' TV at home through the TV speakers. The dialogue can get lost in the mix when it has to compete with what's going on in the surrounds. I don't have this problem watching the show on a 5.1 setup.

That being said, I watched the first two episodes of the new season last night, and it's interesting to see the motivations for certain characters. I'm not so sure I like how the fully awake version of Dolores is acting.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Rumpy wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:41 pm I watched it, but I was having a hard time with the audio and was struggling to hear the dialogue. I then remembered it was an issue with Season 1, but it seemed worse this time around. I've fiddled around with the TV's sound settings and I think it's a bit better now. Just a regular Stereo setup without any fancy surround sound.
Interesting, I have this same problem with Westworld and have to turn on captions since I watch it late at night and don't want to wake the house.

I think it's a bad sound mixing job, but I am not a sound engineer. Using 5.1 system. Rear channel levels seem in line with other shows, but it's the dialogue that is low compared to front mains I think, or either the dialogue is just not separated enough.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

I used to have a similar problem with a lot of shows on Netflix. Buying a soundbar seemed to clear up those issues. :?:
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by Montag »

I jack my center channel up and I still want a better center channel speaker.

I am expecting Teddy to step up and either bring Dolores back to the good alignment or wind up opposing her. I would guess more of the latter to make the stronger Shakespearian tragedy.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Smoove_B wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:21 pm Really? Nobody watched the Season 2 premier the other night?
I watched both episodes yesterday. I'm very much intrigued by where things are going and I'm a big fan of woke Delores.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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pr0ner wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:59 am
Rumpy wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:41 pm I watched it, but I was having a hard time with the audio and was struggling to hear the dialogue. I then remembered it was an issue with Season 1, but it seemed worse this time around. I've fiddled around with the TV's sound settings and I think it's a bit better now. Just a regular Stereo setup without any fancy surround sound.
I have that issue on shows that have a clear Dolby 5.1 mix when I watch on my parents' TV at home through the TV speakers. The dialogue can get lost in the mix when it has to compete with what's going on in the surrounds. I don't have this problem watching the show on a 5.1 setup.
Yeah, I figured it had something to do with the downmixing of a 5.1 mix to stereo. The big problem is that there's just too much assumption in the mixing process that everyone has a surround sound system, and those who watch it on simple home installations are kind of sidelined.

It was a bit better watching last night after I had done the fix. The audio settings were set to dynamic, and I changed it to a setting called clear voice, a setting that essentially lowers the base and adds more treble. I could at least hear the dialogue.
em2nought wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:54 pm Seems like a ton of shows really drop the ball on their audio in this day and age. Hard to hear much of the dialogue over all the other noise on many shows. I'm hoping to find Westworld Season 1 at the pawn shop one of these days. lol
Well it's good to know I'm not the only one noticing. And apparently Westworld won some sound mixing awards...
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:19 am I used to have a similar problem with a lot of shows on Netflix. Buying a soundbar seemed to clear up those issues. :?:

I might have to look into getting one. But it's weird that I have to even consider it in order to compensate for what seems to be a normal trend now.
Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:06 am Interesting, I have this same problem with Westworld and have to turn on captions since I watch it late at night and don't want to wake the house.

I think it's a bad sound mixing job, but I am not a sound engineer. Using 5.1 system. Rear channel levels seem in line with other shows, but it's the dialogue that is low compared to front mains I think, or either the dialogue is just not separated enough.
Wait, are you saying you're still having the problem via a 5.1 system? If so, very interesting. Yeah, I do notice that the dialogue in general is very low which leads to making it sound like everyone is mumbling.

Well, as far as the second episode goes, I thought the first season was confusing, but the second is even more confusing. And I'm sure it will get better, but I'm not finding myself nearly as engaged.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Rumpy wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:18 pm Well, as far as the second episode goes, I thought the first season was confusing, but the second is even more confusing. And I'm sure it will get better, but I'm not finding myself nearly as engaged.
I have the same thoughts in terms of WTF is going on, but I am very engaged.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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coopasonic wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:41 pm
Rumpy wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:18 pm Well, as far as the second episode goes, I thought the first season was confusing, but the second is even more confusing. And I'm sure it will get better, but I'm not finding myself nearly as engaged.
I have the same thoughts in terms of WTF is going on, but I am very engaged.
Spoilers ahoy. Dunno if any of this will help, but:
Spoiler:
I believe everything on the beach in Episode 1 of the season was a "flash forward" of sorts to cleanup after the events in the Season 1 finale.
It appears to be set a couple of weeks after that finale (with poor Teddy lying dead in the sea of dead hosts in the valley). Everything else was directly following the events of Ford getting shot by Dolores and the hosts taking over.

Episode 2 appeared to focus on more of the direct aftermath of the Season 1 finale, while also giving more insight into how the park was founded and how Dolores was at the center of it all.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Thanks. I thanks I have a pretty good idea of what (or when) I am seeing now that I am watching for it more after being surprised in season 1. That may explain the difference in engagement between Rumpy and myself. I was talking more about the question of where is this is all heading? How do we get from here to there?
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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For me, having so many different timelines creates a narrative issue. I'm having a hard time getting a clear read on the characters and their motivations, and being that there are more timelines this time around, means less overall time for the stories to come through, which leads me to feeling less engaged. They were at a pretty good pace last season, but things now have slowed to a trickle and it's all over the place, which then makes it hard to follow. It's a time and place thing obfuscating everything.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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coopasonic wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:57 pm Thanks. I thanks I have a pretty good idea of what (or when) I am seeing now that I am watching for it more after being surprised in season 1. That may explain the difference in engagement between Rumpy and myself. I was talking more about the question of where is this is all heading? How do we get from here to there?
Probably just have to wait and see!
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Rumpy wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:18 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:06 am Interesting, I have this same problem with Westworld and have to turn on captions since I watch it late at night and don't want to wake the house.

I think it's a bad sound mixing job, but I am not a sound engineer. Using 5.1 system. Rear channel levels seem in line with other shows, but it's the dialogue that is low compared to front mains I think, or either the dialogue is just not separated enough.
Wait, are you saying you're still having the problem via a 5.1 system? If so, very interesting. Yeah, I do notice that the dialogue in general is very low which leads to making it sound like everyone is mumbling.

Well, as far as the second episode goes, I thought the first season was confusing, but the second is even more confusing. And I'm sure it will get better, but I'm not finding myself nearly as engaged.
Correct, and my setup is probably better than your average bear's. Not $20K high end, but thousands (speakers plus receiver). I pay pretty close attention to these kinds of things (which drives my wife crazy), and it's definitely something that has stood out to me with WW. There was another one recently that had a similarly noticeable low center channel level, but I can't remember if it was Sherlock, or something else.

I should probably check my cable box audio settings just to make sure it's not something weird there, but then what about all the other shows I watch that don't show have this issue? No idea.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:04 pm
Rumpy wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:18 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:06 am Interesting, I have this same problem with Westworld and have to turn on captions since I watch it late at night and don't want to wake the house.

I think it's a bad sound mixing job, but I am not a sound engineer. Using 5.1 system. Rear channel levels seem in line with other shows, but it's the dialogue that is low compared to front mains I think, or either the dialogue is just not separated enough.
Wait, are you saying you're still having the problem via a 5.1 system? If so, very interesting. Yeah, I do notice that the dialogue in general is very low which leads to making it sound like everyone is mumbling.

Well, as far as the second episode goes, I thought the first season was confusing, but the second is even more confusing. And I'm sure it will get better, but I'm not finding myself nearly as engaged.
Correct, and my setup is probably better than your average bear's. Not $20K high end, but thousands (speakers plus receiver). I pay pretty close attention to these kinds of things (which drives my wife crazy), and it's definitely something that has stood out to me with WW. There was another one recently that had a similarly noticeable low center channel level, but I can't remember if it was Sherlock, or something else.

I should probably check my cable box audio settings just to make sure it's not something weird there, but then what about all the other shows I watch that don't show have this issue? No idea.

Did you notice if season one also had this issue? If someone with a high-end system is also having an issue, that does really sound like a bad mixing on their end and fiddling with it will only help to a certain point. If more people notice, then hopefully they can call them on it.
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Post by Carpet_pissr »

Yes, same issue with season 1.
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Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:04 pm There was another one recently that had a similarly noticeable low center channel level, but I can't remember if it was Sherlock, or something else.
"Turn" was particularly bad in this regard. I had to have the volume way up to make out what was being said.
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by LordMortis »

I used to have that problem with a lot of shows, where I had to turn up the TV for dialog which caused music and ambient noise to be crazy loud. This problem actually was amplified by 5.1, even if the dialog wasn't as muddied.

Now I just use TV speakers. I don't know if it's a difference in broadcast, of filtering through TiVo, or a different cable company, or filtering through a Samsung TV, or if I'm just old and my hearing so bad that I have the TV turned up too loud and don't realize it anymore. No matter which, dialog not longer seems to quiet to makes up in most cases... in most cases... Westworld Season 1 was not muddied for me (not watched on original HBO airing) and speaking of, what am I doing here? I don't have HBO and won't get to see this for months. :(
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Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

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The one line that stuck with me from episode two was when the scumbag brother in law is introduced to the hosts for the first time, and all he can keep incredulously saying is, "We're not there yet!".

I have this weird feeling that that is going to be more important in the future.
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hepcat wrote: Tue May 01, 2018 9:06 am The one line that stuck with me from episode two was when the scumbag brother in law is introduced to the hosts for the first time, and all he can keep incredulously saying is, "We're not there yet!".

I have this weird feeling that that is going to be more important in the future.
it confused me a little also as I thought there was a progression in terms of "realness" of the androids based on a few scenes from last season. Like when Ford was talking to that one old android in the basement, drinking whiskey with him. I guess his noticeably robotic movements could have been a sign of age/disrepair rather than just not being technologically there yet? Because none of the androids at the party exhibited any robotic movements. Regardless, I just took as it there were already human-like androids around but were easy to detect. i.e. "Our society's android technology is currently not at this level of realism."
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hepcat wrote: Tue May 01, 2018 9:06 am The one line that stuck with me from episode two was when the scumbag brother in law is introduced to the hosts for the first time, and all he can keep incredulously saying is, "We're not there yet!".

I have this weird feeling that that is going to be more important in the future.
Anyone catch what was going on with the brother-in-law's arm when he talked with Dolores? Looks like a 3 x 2 row of red dots/bumps that he quickly covered up?
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The drugged out dude had holes in his arm... hmmm.. what could that be?
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But the points looked very evenly spaced, not like separate needle injections. But maybe he's just a very organized junkie....
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Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue May 01, 2018 10:46 am But the points looked very evenly spaced, not like separate needle injections. But maybe he's just a very organized junkie....
They did show him pulling some kind of large injector out of his arm. It's possible that it had multiple needles.
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I'm quite happy that they solved the mystery of where that tiger came from this past episode!

And the rest of the episode was entertaining as well.
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I found episode 3 to be the best one yet this season. It was a whole lot better than the two previous episodes and was more of season 1 quality. Was more focused and easier to follow.
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Rumpy wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 4:31 pm I found episode 3 to be the best one yet this season. It was a whole lot better than the two previous episodes and was more of season 1 quality. Was more focused and easier to follow.
I think this was my least-favorite episode so far. The attack on the fort was comical - what kind of modern fighting force would just wander across an open field like that?
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Exodor wrote:
Rumpy wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 4:31 pm I found episode 3 to be the best one yet this season. It was a whole lot better than the two previous episodes and was more of season 1 quality. Was more focused and easier to follow.
I think this was my least-favorite episode so far. The attack on the fort was comical - what kind of modern fighting force would just wander across an open field like that?
I'll chalk it up to human arrogance in dealing with mere machines. At least that makes it easier to think about it.
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That didn't even bother me all that much given that everything else about the episode was better. I took it to mean that they severely underestimated how organized and how plentiful a force they were dealing with. I don't think they realized that Dolores had put together as much resistance in the time that she had until they were directly confronted with it.
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I love this show, generally, but love goes up ten fold every time Maeve is on the screen. She just nails it!
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Kurth wrote:I love this show, generally, but love goes up ten fold every time Maeve is on the screen. She just nails it!
I don’t know what the problem is but Maeve is literally the only thing I don’t like about the show.
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Kurth
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
Location: Portland

Re: HBO remakes Westworld into tv series...Abrams / Nolan

Post by Kurth »

RunningMn9 wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 8:14 pm
Kurth wrote:I love this show, generally, but love goes up ten fold every time Maeve is on the screen. She just nails it!
I don’t know what the problem is but Maeve is literally the only thing I don’t like about the show.
I'll give it to you that her second season plot line about finding her fictional daughter is a little thin, but I think she's a great character. I guess YMMV.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
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