Political Randomness

[The Meal]

We're going to need the defiant signal to count permutations and combinations for those three words.

[malchior]

The internet suggests that Biden is getting generally good reviews for his SoTU performance, FWIW. I'm sure it's different in Fox News land, of course, but otherwise.

Joe Kernan was attacking it with so much stupidity on CNBC, trying to get everyone else to bash it and getting visibly angry when they wouldn't. It was so bad I had to turn off the TV this morning, bringing me back to "Why haven't I cut the cord yet?"

It's funny I decided to throw on CNBC on a lark based on this comment. I wanted to get a feel for the discussion today. And it turned out to be a very consequential business news day with news breaking live on Disney. Jim Cramer had an activist investor call in right after an interview with Bob Iger to say he was ending his proxy fight for a board seat. Like a mini episode of Succession playing out live.

[coopasonic]

Donald Trump being called a "pussy ass bitch" is now forever enshrined in the Congressional record.



This hearing is going great for Republicans.

Is there any dispute that "pussy ass bitch" contains three or fewer insults? I think you could understand it as either one or three, but no more than three, right?

I count 6 unique insults....
- Pussy
- Ass
- Bitch
- Pussy Ass
- Ass Bitch
- Pussy Ass Bitch

On further reflection, I can see two readings of Pussy Ass Bitch, based on the prior two insults which really make it two different insults, giving us seven in total.

[Alefroth]

How could you miss Pussy Bitch?

[Jaymann]

So is TFG now PAB?

[El Guapo]

Donald Trump being called a "pussy ass bitch" is now forever enshrined in the Congressional record.



This hearing is going great for Republicans.

Is there any dispute that "pussy ass bitch" contains three or fewer insults? I think you could understand it as either one or three, but no more than three, right?

I count 6 unique insults....
- Pussy
- Ass
- Bitch
- Pussy Ass
- Ass Bitch
- Pussy Ass Bitch

On further reflection, I can see two readings of Pussy Ass Bitch, based on the prior two insults which really make it two different insults, giving us seven in total.

I don't think you can double use like that. Like you can conceivably break it down into him being a pussy, him being an ass, and him being a bitch, but you can't do that and then also separately count "pussy ass". Because in pussy ass, you're calling him an ass with a modifier, so that's a double-count of "ass".

I do like how Chelsea Hander described it - "It does raise an interesting question. Is Trump a pussy, an ass, and a bitch, or is he a bitch with pussy-ass qualities?"

[coopasonic]

Donald Trump being called a "pussy ass bitch" is now forever enshrined in the Congressional record.



This hearing is going great for Republicans.

Is there any dispute that "pussy ass bitch" contains three or fewer insults? I think you could understand it as either one or three, but no more than three, right?

I count 6 unique insults....
- Pussy
- Ass
- Bitch
- Pussy Ass
- Ass Bitch
- Pussy Ass Bitch

On further reflection, I can see two readings of Pussy Ass Bitch, based on the prior two insults which really make it two different insults, giving us seven in total.

I don't think you can double use like that. Like you can conceivably break it down into him being a pussy, him being an ass, and him being a bitch, but you can't do that and then also separately count "pussy ass". Because in pussy ass, you're calling him an ass with a modifier, so that's a double-count of "ass".

I do like how Chelsea Hander described it - "It does raise an interesting question. Is Trump a pussy, an ass, and a bitch, or is he a bitch with pussy-ass qualities?"

In real terms, it's only a single insult. She is being very specific about the kind of bitch he is. In amusing myself terms, I still hold there are seven insults in that single phrase.

[Max Peck]

Is it really an insult if it's a true statement of fact?

[Carpet_pissr]

Is it really an insult if it's a true statement of fact?

Yes. If you’re a colossal assface, and someone calls you a colossal assface, that is, in fact, an insult. Verity got nothin’ to do with it.

[El Guapo]

Truth may determine whether you are guilty of libel or slander, but it doesn't change whether it's an insult or not.

[Max Peck]

New York City is paying for migrants' bus tickets upstate. Their next stop: crossing into Canada

Asylum seekers can go from New York City to parts of the state near the U.S. border with Canada — and later attempt to cross at Roxham Road — with a bus ticket paid for by American authorities.

Mayor Eric Adams's office says it does not finance tickets to Roxham Road, and does not help people cross the Canada-U.S. border. But people who want to go to Plattsburgh, N.Y., — which is near the Canadian border — can do so by bus.

"Our goal is to help asylum seekers who wish to move to another location," Kate Smart, a New York City spokesperson, told Radio-Canada.

U.S. border agents give rides to Quebec-bound migrants as side hustle, sources tell Radio-Canada

U.S. border patrol agents are driving Quebec-bound asylum seekers to the irregular border crossing on Roxham Road in exchange for money, picking up groups of people in nearby Plattsburgh, N.Y., while off duty, sources tell Radio-Canada.

One source said "this has been known for a few months," adding that several agents are involved, but the exact number is unknown.

This situation has been reported to Canadian authorities, according to Radio-Canada sources.

Many people looking to cross into Canada use a regular bus line to get to Plattsburgh,which is about 30 minutes away from Roxham Road.

From there, they walk through a wooded passage, enter Canada and seek asylum.

[Isgrimnur]

Texas Tribune

Attorney General Ken Paxton and four of his former top deputies who said he improperly fired them after they accused him of crimes have reached a tentative agreement to end a whistleblower lawsuit that would pay those employees $3.3 million.

In a filing Friday, attorneys for Paxton and the whistleblowers asked the Texas Supreme Court to further defer consideration of the whistleblower case until the two sides can finalize the tentative agreement. Once the deal is finalized and payment by the attorney general’s office is approved, the two sides will move to end the case, the filing said.
...
The tentative agreement would pay $3.3 million to the four whistleblowers and keep in place an appeals court ruling that allowed the case to move forward. Paxton had asked the Supreme Court to void that ruling. The settlement, once finalized, also will include a statement from Paxton saying he “accepts that plaintiffs acted in a manner that they thought was right and apologizes for referring to them as 'rogue employees.’”

The attorney general’s office also agreed to delete a news release from its website that called the whistleblowers “rogue employees.”
...
The payment for the settlement would come out of state funds and has to be approved by the Legislature. After the tentative agreement was made public, state Rep. Jeff Leach, the Republican from Plano who oversees the House Judiciary and Civil Jurisprudence Committee, said he was "troubled that hardworking taxpayers might be on the hook for this settlement between the Attorney General and former employees of his office."

[malchior]

That'll show Ken Paxton! He surely has learned his lesson.

[Isgrimnur]

I'd love for the legislature to decline to fund it, but I won't hold my breath.

[malchior]

I'd love for the legislature to decline to fund it, but I won't hold my breath.

Right. He has mind control over them for some reason too. I can't help but think that one of Paxton's talking points was that this was meritless. That obviously fell apart. Yet the claims from *prosecutors* that their boss committed crimes which you have to expect is compelling and backed up by the testimony of officers of the court with direct knowledge is ... crickets. And people wonder why trust in our system has collapsed? This is some real bullshit.

[GreenGoo]

Truth may determine whether you are guilty of libel or slander, but it doesn't change whether it's an insult or not.

Perhaps, but calling someone who eats shit a shit eater shouldn't count. As one example.

edit: Sorry, alleged "pig fucker". I mean "shit eater".

[Isgrimnur]

I'd love for the legislature to decline to fund it, but I won't hold my breath.

Right. He has mind control over them for some reason too. I can't help but think that one of Paxton's talking points was that this was meritless. That obviously fell apart. Yet the claims from *prosecutors* that their boss committed crimes which you have to expect is compelling and backed up by the testimony of officers of the court with direct knowledge is ... crickets. And people wonder why trust in our system has collapsed? This is some real bullshit.

Their reports led to an FBI investigation. No charges have been filed, and Paxton has denied wrongdoing.

[LordMortis]

Texas Tribune

Attorney General Ken Paxton and four of his former top deputies who said he improperly fired them after they accused him of crimes have reached a tentative agreement to end a whistleblower lawsuit that would pay those employees $3.3 million.

In a filing Friday, attorneys for Paxton and the whistleblowers asked the Texas Supreme Court to further defer consideration of the whistleblower case until the two sides can finalize the tentative agreement. Once the deal is finalized and payment by the attorney general’s office is approved, the two sides will move to end the case, the filing said.
...
The tentative agreement would pay $3.3 million to the four whistleblowers and keep in place an appeals court ruling that allowed the case to move forward. Paxton had asked the Supreme Court to void that ruling. The settlement, once finalized, also will include a statement from Paxton saying he “accepts that plaintiffs acted in a manner that they thought was right and apologizes for referring to them as 'rogue employees.’”

The attorney general’s office also agreed to delete a news release from its website that called the whistleblowers “rogue employees.”
...
The payment for the settlement would come out of state funds and has to be approved by the Legislature. After the tentative agreement was made public, state Rep. Jeff Leach, the Republican from Plano who oversees the House Judiciary and Civil Jurisprudence Committee, said he was "troubled that hardworking taxpayers might be on the hook for this settlement between the Attorney General and former employees of his office."

Well, that leaves nothing to the imagination or to be assumed. Pretty straight forward.

[malchior]

I'd love for the legislature to decline to fund it, but I won't hold my breath.

Right. He has mind control over them for some reason too. I can't help but think that one of Paxton's talking points was that this was meritless. That obviously fell apart. Yet the claims from *prosecutors* that their boss committed crimes which you have to expect is compelling and backed up by the testimony of officers of the court with direct knowledge is ... crickets. And people wonder why trust in our system has collapsed? This is some real bullshit.

Their reports led to an FBI investigation. No charges have been filed, and Paxton has denied wrongdoing.

Right and to be fair maybe they'll eventually make a case but good lord are they slow.

[LawBeefaroni]

Alaskan governor's statement on the UFO balloon:

This latest intrusion into our airspace raises serious questions about the White House’s decision to not shoot down a Chinese spy balloon last week when it was above the Aleutian Chain and prevent it from flying over important military sites in the Lower-48.

Unlike other states, Alaska is truly on the front lines. Because of our close proximity to our neighbors there is very little margin for error. Russian territory is only a few miles away. We are the one state closest to the Korean Peninsula and China. Alaska is truly on the front lines.

But Mike, is Alaska truly on the front lines?


I guess everything has to be a political litmus test these days. But would it kill them to hire a decent PR person to proof these press releases? I judged the kiddos 7th grade history fair yesterday and any one of them could have done a better job than that.

[malchior]

There are some things to unpack there. The victimhood ("you clearly don't care about us") embedded is the usual GOP division tactic. Guess Chinese cyberattacks don't put the rest of us on the front lines.

The proximity thing is intensely silly as well. It was silly when Palin said it and it is still just as silly now. Yes they are closer but Alaska, and the "adversay regions" and everything in between are pretty much unpopulated. It's so dumb but that is often who they are appealing to these days - dumb, uninformed people.

[LawBeefaroni]

I mean we did leave them all on their own with nothing but the best stealth air intercept fighters on the planet to defend themselves. Wonder how many of those their oil dividend would pay for...

[Smoove_B]

Once again I repeat, wtf is happening in OHIO:

The Department of Education in Ohio is investigating the openly antisemitic and racist Nazi homeschooling group with thousands of members being operated by a couple from Upper Sandusky, Ohio, an official at the department told VICE News.

On Sunday, VICE News and the Huffington Post reported that Logan and Katja Lawrence were the operators of the neo-Nazi Dissident Homeschool group which now boasts over 2,500 members on its Telegram channel, based on the research from anti-fascist researchers at the Anonymous Comrades Collective. The group openly advocates white supremacist ideologies with the aim to make sure the children they teach
“become wonderful Nazis.”

The Lawrences share their classroom schedules, homework assignments, and lesson plans with other parents in the group, the vast majority of which are infused with Nazi ideology or open praise for Adolf Hitler.

Just a follow up:

Ohio officials have now said there is nothing they can do about their state's recently uncovered Nazi homeschooler network. So, in OH you can graduate from HS having been taught actual racism. But you can't graduate having been taught ABOUT racism as a systemic force.

[Pyperkub]

GOP Education policy working as intended.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

[hitbyambulance]

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2 ... 887571007/

i'm wondering why this massive chemical accident in Ohio wasn't getting more coverage

[Smoove_B]

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2 ... 887571007/

i'm wondering why this massive chemical accident in Ohio wasn't getting more coverage

You correctly guessed it's political:

Residents told the local news they “fear[ed] for their lives.” One said that even indoors, “You could smell it and taste it, and I had a headache.” Meanwhile, the crash site was leaching other hazardous materials besides vinyl chloride. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) says they seeped into surrounding waterways, and “were immediately toxic to fish”—though it added that “actions were taken to minimize that.” The agency has assured the public that, the poor aquatic life’s fate notwithstanding, everybody’s drinking water was “protected.”

...

Making things worse, a reporter for the media network NewsNation was arrested yesterday during the news event where Governor DeWine discussed the evacuation order being lifted, drawing a stern rebuke on Thursday afternoon from the Society of Professional Journalists, and also stoking rumors that Eastern Ohio was somehow becoming the scene of an environmental-disaster government coverup.

I don't know anything more than what's being reported, but the idea that people are being told it's super terrific for them to move back is...insane.

But to bring it all home, we only need to look back to 2017 to see how this came about:

Then came 2017: After rail industry donors delivered more than $6 million to GOP campaigns, the Trump administration — backed by rail lobbyists and Senate Republicans — rescinded part of that rule aimed at making better braking systems widespread on the nation’s rails.

Specifically, regulators killed provisions requiring rail cars carrying hazardous flammable materials to be equipped with electronic braking systems to stop trains more quickly than conventional air brakes. Norfolk Southern had previously touted the new technology — known as Electronically Controlled Pneumatic (ECP) brakes — for its “potential to reduce train stopping distances by as much as 60 percent over conventional air brake systems.”

But the company’s lobby group nonetheless pressed for the rule’s repeal, telling regulators that it would “impose tremendous costs without providing offsetting safety benefits.”

[hitbyambulance]

everything about this feels like a government coverup in real time:

from a reddit post: "Thanks for shouting us out (i work for WYTV/WKBN). It's been a really frustrating situation to cover as lots of officials give us the canned answers or won't go on the record with "controversial" insights for fear of pushback. But we're trying"

[Holman]

everything about this feels like a government coverup in real time:

from a reddit post: "Thanks for shouting us out (i work for WYTV/WKBN). It's been a really frustrating situation to cover as lots of officials give us the canned answers or won't go on the record with "controversial" insights for fear of pushback. But we're trying"

[...]

I agree that it's a messy situation.

However, the second poster in the tweet (the one claiming car damage) is a nobody who hasn't posted much (and none of it interesting or viral) but somehow has 450 followers. That's a pretty good indicator that they're a bot or a mask.

[malchior]

There have been a lot of people posting fish kills in the area as well. It does feel like a cover up (or very underreported) but it's not clear who would be orchestrating it and for what purpose.

But then you get less than convincing statements like this. Ignore the dead fish. The water is safe to drink.

[malchior]

I know everyone is focused on the State of the Union, but I had to share a semi-local story because after 26+ years in the public sector, I've never seen anything like it:

East Hanover Mayor Joseph Pannullo and all four members of the township council will switch from Democratic to Republican, marking a complete party flip in the township of 11,105 people, the New Jersey Globe has confirmed.

...

“Municipal leaders have a responsibility to best represent their constituents, and it is our belief this change of party is in the best interest of the community,” said Pannullo. “As the nastiness, rhetoric, and social media vitriol of national politics continues to infiltrate local governance, we collectively determined this was the best course of action to keep the focus on local issues impacting our community – combating the overburdening and unrealistic fair-share housing mandates, keeping taxes stable, enhancing our parks and investing in public safety needs to be our local priorities. Every decision my administration makes is about putting East Hanover first; this is no different.”

Sam Thompson of Old Bridge claps back facing a contested primary

State Sen. Samuel Thompson (R-Old Bridge), an 87-year-old conservative Republican facing a fierce primary challenge against Old Bridge Mayor Owen Henry in his campaign for another four-year term, will switch parties and seek re-election to a fifth term as a Democrat in a heavily-Republican district.

Thompson, who was a Donald Trump delegate in 2016 and 2020, confirmed that he would make his announcement on Monday.

“I don’t feel I am leaving my party,” Thompson said. “I feel my party leadership has abandoned me.”

Some political observers think Thompson has a better chance of winning a general election as a Democrat if he can bring some Republicans with him in November.

Republican leaders had urged Thompson to retire and encouraged Henry, a three-term mayor who is nearly 25 years younger, to run for Senate.

Thompson already had no chance to compete for the Monmouth County GOP organization line after missing the convention filing deadline on Thursday. That left Henry with party support in Monmouth, which makes up roughly one-third of the GOP primary electorate.

It is anticipated that Republican leaders in Middlesex, Ocean, and Burlington will back Henry.

Thompson had slammed Republicans for pushing him out based on age, saying that his cognitive and physical health remain strong.

[GreenGoo]

Bringing this here so as not to derail game thread.

I don’t want to drag this down the R&P hole, but if you think so, would you mind posting in R&P to explain why JK’s views on trans women are horrific, as opposed to maybe, misguided or ignorant or uninformed or unenlightened? I mean, to my ear, “horrific” sounds like you think she wants to burn trans women at the stake or enshrine laws that discriminate against them and make them second class citizens. That’s not exactly consistent with my understanding of what JK has actually said.

I think the answer is empathy.

Trans people are yet another marginalized population that feel ostracized and closeted due to bigotry of the general population. Through no fault of their own, their physiology makes them outcasts, because of people like JK. Society in general is trying to fix that, make sure trans people don't feel any more broken than they already feel because they don't fit into gender norms. Welcome them for who they are, and allow them to be happy as themselves, not who society thinks they should be.

We've witnessed one marginalized group gain civil rights and societal acceptance after another, and this is no different in my eyes. It's no less horrific to tell Trans people what gender they are (and all the disapproval and outright bigotry that comes with that, including violence) than it is to tell African Americans they only count as 2/3's of a citizen, or homosexuals as an abomination before god.

What really galls me is that JK and others are basing their opinion on how they *feel*, which is incredibly ignorant and conceited. Why do JK's feelings overrule the feelings of the Trans person themselves? It's definitely not rational thought, because rational thought involves itself with the facts, and the facts are not on JK's side.

I get so frustrated when these things are treated like a valid political opinion. It's not. Science says Trans people are a completely normal result of human sexuality. But somehow JK knows better? Worse, she has a platform and a position of respect and wealth from which to lend greater weight to her opinion. It's incredibly irresponsible.

Sure, Trans people present unique challenges (gendered bathrooms, competitive sports) to society, and society hates challenges. That's not Trans people's fault, and shouldn't be punished as if it is.

As with most of these situations (bigotry and discrimination) I don't understand how people can be so shitty to each other. Just fucking live your own life, don't try to live others for them.

Personally, I am not very emotionally invested in this topic. I have no loved ones who are Trans, and no direct contact with anyone either. But my position is almost always let people live their lives.

I realize you wanted someone else's opinion on why JK's position is horrific, but here's mine. Do I feel JK's position is horrific? Not really, but do I understand that many people do? Absolutely.

[LawBeefaroni]

everything about this feels like a government coverup in real time:

from a reddit post: "Thanks for shouting us out (i work for WYTV/WKBN). It's been a really frustrating situation to cover as lots of officials give us the canned answers or won't go on the record with "controversial" insights for fear of pushback. But we're trying"

[...]

I agree that it's a messy situation.

However, the second poster in the tweet (the one claiming car damage) is a nobody who hasn't posted much (and none of it interesting or viral) but somehow has 450 followers. That's a pretty good indicator that they're a bot or a mask.

I'm not a Twitter savant but is it possible they picked up many of those followers after the car post?

[Kurth]

Bringing this here so as not to derail game thread.

I don’t want to drag this down the R&P hole, but if you think so, would you mind posting in R&P to explain why JK’s views on trans women are horrific, as opposed to maybe, misguided or ignorant or uninformed or unenlightened? I mean, to my ear, “horrific” sounds like you think she wants to burn trans women at the stake or enshrine laws that discriminate against them and make them second class citizens. That’s not exactly consistent with my understanding of what JK has actually said.

I think the answer is empathy.

Trans people are yet another marginalized population that feel ostracized and closeted due to bigotry of the general population. Through no fault of their own, their physiology makes them outcasts, because of people like JK. Society in general is trying to fix that, make sure trans people don't feel any more broken than they already feel because they don't fit into gender norms. Welcome them for who they are, and allow them to be happy as themselves, not who society thinks they should be.

We've witnessed one marginalized group gain civil rights and societal acceptance after another, and this is no different in my eyes. It's no less horrific to tell Trans people what gender they are (and all the disapproval and outright bigotry that comes with that, including violence) than it is to tell African Americans they only count as 2/3's of a citizen, or homosexuals as an abomination before god.

What really galls me is that JK and others are basing their opinion on how they *feel*, which is incredibly ignorant and conceited. Why do JK's feelings overrule the feelings of the Trans person themselves? It's definitely not rational thought, because rational thought involves itself with the facts, and the facts are not on JK's side.

I get so frustrated when these things are treated like a valid political opinion. It's not. Science says Trans people are a completely normal result of human sexuality. But somehow JK knows better? Worse, she has a platform and a position of respect and wealth from which to lend greater weight to her opinion. It's incredibly irresponsible.

Sure, Trans people present unique challenges (gendered bathrooms, competitive sports) to society, and society hates challenges. That's not Trans people's fault, and shouldn't be punished as if it is.

As with most of these situations (bigotry and discrimination) I don't understand how people can be so shitty to each other. Just fucking live your own life, don't try to live others for them.

Personally, I am not very emotionally invested in this topic. I have no loved ones who are Trans, and no direct contact with anyone either. But my position is almost always let people live their lives.

I realize you wanted someone else's opinion on why JK's position is horrific, but here's mine. Do I feel JK's position is horrific? Not really, but do I understand that many people do? Absolutely.

I feel like that's a great way to put it, and not far off from where I come out on this. Rowling seems ignorant and misguided but not hateful or malicious or horrific.

I also agree with your take on the challenges posed by trans issues. Look, these issues are challenging. It’s not easy for people to get their heads around all the nuance surrounding gender and sex. Ideally, people would STFU until they figured stuff out, especially people with a very large platform and an elevated voice. But that’s often not the case. People work this stuff out out loud, and sometimes that conversation is necessary to move things forward.

This Rowling thing seems to me to be a case of someone with a very large platform working things out in a clumsy, ignorant way. I haven’t studied everything Rowling ever said on trans issues, but from I read she took the side of some tax collector who got fired for posting insensitive stuff about trans people on her social media account and she threw shade at people referring to “people who menstruate” instead of women. Is that great? Nope. Would she be better to keep her mouth shut while working things out, yes. But does that make her a hateful, “horrific” person, I don’t think so.

I also wonder how the Rowling thing would have played out in the absence of the typical OUTRAGE and BOYCOTT responses that proliferate on social media these days. Especially on challenging issues, I can’t help but feel like we’d get further with people engaging and teaching and persuading than we would with instant screaming and vilifying.

Empathy was a great way to start your response. It’s the key missing ingredient here.

[Smoove_B]

Empathy was a great way to start your response. It’s the key missing ingredient here.

Absolutely. But after being educated about the things she's said, she has double, triple, quadrupled down on her statements.

We're in Kobra Kai territory now, and she did it to herself.

[malchior]

Bringing this here so as not to derail game thread.

I don’t want to drag this down the R&P hole, but if you think so, would you mind posting in R&P to explain why JK’s views on trans women are horrific, as opposed to maybe, misguided or ignorant or uninformed or unenlightened? I mean, to my ear, “horrific” sounds like you think she wants to burn trans women at the stake or enshrine laws that discriminate against them and make them second class citizens. That’s not exactly consistent with my understanding of what JK has actually said.

I think the answer is empathy.

I'll say this first loud and clear that I am not defending Rowling. And I'm not solely responding to you. It is part response and part useful to use your framing as a sounding board. Hope that is clear. I don't agree with what she's said but she is a good proxy for the topic at large.

My core question often about the empathy issue is how do you know she doesn't have empathy for trans people? In fact, she has argued she does. I know people don't believe it but that is the crux of a major problem at the center of 'cancel culture' IMO. I'll dig in more below but I think a lot of what we see is bucketing. Rowling says something wrong repeatedly - she must be a hateful anti-trans bigot. Into "that bucket" with her. Cancel her. Be rid of her. And I think we are skipping to an end there too often. Convicted by "a mob" without any discourse or understanding.

Trans people are yet another marginalized population that feel ostracized and closeted due to bigotry of the general population. Through no fault of their own, their physiology makes them outcasts, because of people like JK. Society in general is trying to fix that, make sure trans people don't feel any more broken than they already feel because they don't fit into gender norms. Welcome them for who they are, and allow them to be happy as themselves, not who society thinks they should be.

All laudable goals but the way we are doing it is often counterproductive IMO. Challenging folks constructively when they make errors has proven to be effective. Instead we see metaphorical and literal screaming in their faces about how terrible they are. Often whipped up by social media. That usually causes people to shut down and not listen. That's human nature. In my opinion - to riff on the empathy line, perhaps we aren't embracing an attitude of universal empathy towards people who are wrong.

And to emphasize this again, I don't agree with her. Importantly most people and especially Rowling are less at risk than trans people. I don't think there is much to worry about there in the balance. I more worry about the big picture which is how do we promote perceived good/just social values in a productive manner.

What really galls me is that JK and others are basing their opinion on how they *feel*, which is incredibly ignorant and conceited.

Here is the crux of my problem with these arguments. People often claim to know what JK Rowling feels. What we know is what she says. We can only guess at what she feels. And anecdotally I know folks who have some of her same concerns who otherwise are wonderful with trans people. This is complicated but many too quickly boil this down to polarized beliefs about trans issues.

Why do JK's feelings overrule the feelings of the Trans person themselves? It's definitely not rational thought, because rational thought involves itself with the facts, and the facts are not on JK's side. I get so frustrated when these things are treated like a valid political opinion. It's not. Science says Trans people are a completely normal result of human sexuality.

Another problem. I agree that trans people are a normal part of the complete spectrum of human sexuality. However, the introduction of the word "facts" when sometimes they are groupthink or opinions being described as facts upon threat of social ostracization. There are problems within. The use of word science is often thrown about to say that something is true, and any viewpoint that is contrary is anti-science. Or sometimes working against some universal truth. There isn't one here. The current body of knowledge about gender being pointed at is only a few decades old. Is it right? I think so and it's far more humane to boot. Still this is a social science. It is a body of interpreted evidence.

And like any body of interpreted evidence there are real disagreements. To be clear not in the ways that Rowling often is disagreeing. The result is we'll see one study bandied as the truth and the researchers who came to a different conclusion are labeled as wrong or TERF-adjacent or bucketed accordingly. That's not science which hopes to find truth. That's dogma.

Sure, Trans people present unique challenges (gendered bathrooms, competitive sports) to society, and society hates challenges. That's not Trans people's fault, and shouldn't be punished as if it is.

Again this gets into very tricky territory. It isn't about fault. It is about how we integrate viewpoints into a marketplace of ideas. This is a NEW IDEA that is trying to overthrow generations of thinking based on sex versus gender. This is not some small tweak. This point is lost on many of the most militant. These ideas need to normalize into culture at its own pace.

As with most of these situations (bigotry and discrimination) I don't understand how people can be so shitty to each other. Just fucking live your own life, don't try to live others for them.

Personally, I am not very emotionally invested in this topic. I have no loved ones who are Trans, and no direct contact with anyone either. But my position is almost always let people live their lives.

I agree that we should let people live as they want to, as they hope to, but we can't control for all of society. Imposing viewpoints without understanding is fated to fail. Almost always.

Empathy was a great way to start your response. It’s the key missing ingredient here.

Absolutely. But after being educated about the things she's said, she has double, triple, quadrupled down on her statements.

We're in Kobra Kai territory now, and she did it to herself.

Was she educated? Or did people start screaming at her? I don't think people really get what the other side of that coin feels like. To be clear, I don't personally either but I've read enough accounts to realize the outcome is they typically ignore the input.

[Kurth]

Empathy was a great way to start your response. It’s the key missing ingredient here.

Absolutely. But after being educated about the things she's said, she has double, triple, quadrupled down on her statements.

We're in Kobra Kai territory now, and she did it to herself.

Are you saying she’s gone from ignorant/unenlightened/insensitive to hateful? If so, I haven’t really seen that anywhere. She’s not backed down from her position - which, from what I can tell, is something along the lines of, “sex differences are immutable,” which I think is a straw man in this whole thing anyway. But she’s been pretty consistent in tone and message I think.

So why are we in Kobra Kai territory exactly? Maybe some examples of the Kobra Kai type things Rowling has said would help.

[Alefroth]

Was she educated? Or did people start screaming at her?

Is it anyone else's responsibility to educate her?

[malchior]

Was she educated? Or did people start screaming at her?

Is it anyone else's responsibility to educate her?

You're missing the point.

[Smoove_B]

So why are we in Kobra Kai territory exactly? Maybe some examples of the Kobra Kai type things Rowling has said would help.

Glad you asked. An article was published last week. To be clear, I don't think she deserves threats in any capacity. But she's staked out her opinion quite clearly and after being told of the harm she's promoting with her platform, she shrugged.

[Kurth]

So why are we in Kobra Kai territory exactly? Maybe some examples of the Kobra Kai type things Rowling has said would help.

Glad you asked. An article was published last week. To be clear, I don't think she deserves threats in any capacity. But she's staked out her opinion quite clearly and after being told of the harm she's promoting with her platform, she shrugged.

I linked to that very article in the Hogwarts Legacy thread a couple days ago. That’s what I read to try to figure out what Rowling actually said that was “horrific.”

Can you point something out? I’m looking for the hate and not seeing it.