Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

[Pyperkub]

Fuck Tuberville. He's always been a shitty person.

Tommy Tuberville left recruits at dinner to take Cincinnati job (2012)

Tommy Tuberville sorry he said Lubbock, Texas looks like Siberia and Iraq (2017)

I agree about Lubbock . I'd almost rather have the pac 12 implode than get up for a football roadtrip to Lubbock.

Oh, wait....

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[Smoove_B]

Totally reasonable:

Freshman Rep. Andy Ogles (R-TN) filed a bill Friday that would repeal the D.C. Home Rule Act and give Congress authority over the district.

Citing Washington's rising crime rate, Ogles said Congress should retake its “constitutional authority” over the district and repeal the D.C. Home Rule Act, which passed in 1973, and give some congressional powers over the district to local government.

...

Because of this, Ogles filed the Seat of Government Act. The bill is co-sponsored by Reps. Byron Donalds (R-FL) and Matt Rosendale (R-MT).

...

“In the first 5 days of August, DC saw 13 homicides. The Nation’s capital has been overrun with violent crime, drugs, theft, homelessness, and riots,” Ogles said in a statement. “The Constitution places the authority and responsibility of DC administration with the Congress — not with a DC Mayor or a DC City Council. Congress needs to reclaim its Constitutional authority and make our Nation’s capital safe again, which is why I’m introducing the Seat of Government Act to repeal the DC Home Rule Act.”

Even under the Home Rule Act, Congress continues to have oversight over the district and can override local legislation. Most recently, back in March, Congress overturned Washington's crime bill, and President Joe Biden signed the measure to block it.

So weird that that the GOP is pushing for "Constitutional control" of D.C. right now. I'm sure there's a mysterious reason they want to make sure they can make D.C. "safe again".

[Skinypupy]

Fuck Tuberville. He's always been a shitty person.

Tommy Tuberville left recruits at dinner to take Cincinnati job (2012)

Tommy Tuberville sorry he said Lubbock, Texas looks like Siberia and Iraq (2017)

I agree about Lubbock . I'd almost rather have the pac 12 implode than get up for a football roadtrip to Lubbock.

Oh, wait....

Too soon man. Too soon.

[Grifman]

The Republican Party in Michigan, taken over by the radical right, has closed up shop and is all but dead:

https://x.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/16 ... NcXCfN8s1g

And this was a state that was completely controlled by the Republicans a few years ago. Pretty amazing.

[Unagi]

^^^^^^^^

[Isgrimnur]

Aww.

[LordMortis]

Major donors have stopped giving to Michigan’s GOP.

Should have done so years ago and those donors can all KMA. There is a long list of PACs starting with the Chamber of Commerce passing misinformation through the GOP that I will avoid whenever possible. If I had a relationship with DeVos', I'd avoid them too. The lies they been spewing across the airwaves and streaming (before I went full tilt with ad blockers because of them, specifically) are downright offensive. It gotten worse every two years since at least 2010, up to now culminating in flat out insanity for the last governor race over the trans population taking over the schools to force abortions and gender swaps on teens.

[Kraken]

That mirrors the experience of the Mass. GOP, about which I've gleefully posted occasionally. They hold no statewide offices, only 10% of the legislature, and their organization is broke and mired in lawsuits and scandal. This, after having (and repudiating) the most popular governor in the US (Charlie Baker). The rank and file are MAGA, and the party chose to represent them rather than succeed politically. Now they're living with that decision.

Being a one-party state isn't ideal, but it's better than sharing power with a dysfunctional, antidemocratic party. The Democrats divide among progressive, liberal, and moderate factions so state government isn't entirely monolithic.

Really pleased to hear that Michigan went the same way. Now let's hope other states follow. I'm looking at you, Wisconsin. Break their gerrymanders and hold fair elections, and they're toast.

[LordMortis]

Really pleased to hear that Michigan went the same way. Now let's hope other states follow. I'm looking at you, Wisconsin. Break their gerrymanders and hold fair elections, and they're toast.

As was stated in the linked article, Michigan cannot get complacent. There is no small percentage of the populace that will loyally vote GOP no matter what psycho is running. 2022 showed that. While they lost by record amounts, they were more openly nuts than any candidates in my lifetime, and they worst of them still only lost by 14 points. And that was with the a referendum on the GOP trying to outlaw abortions 100% in state. If people stay home, that gap close quickly. If reasonable sounding wolves in sheep's clothing run, that gap closes quickly.

But yeah, break the gerrymandering and we will become a blue state, until the GOP actually change, so long as we don't get lazy. One hopes that all these crazy neighbors will remind us of that, even if we have to deal with them, if not fear their insanity.

[YellowKing]

It used to be that teetering on the knife's edge meant winding up with the guy who wanted to solve problems with a bit more government spending or the guy who wanted to solve problems with a little less government spending. Now it's the difference between the guy who wants to solve problems with a bit more government spending and the guy who wants to abolish the Department of Education because it's run by woke Satanic pedophiles pushing a transgender CRT agenda.

[waitingtoconnect]

It’s madness we’ve gone from a party where the far right used to be Joe Scarborough (of morning joe on MSNBC fame) to whatever the hell I saw on tv last night.

[Kraken]

I miss the days when our biggest political battles were over whether taxes or spending should be raised or cut by a few percent, or at worst whether a war should be escalated or ended. Back when the parties were really just different sides of the same coin-stitution. I wonder if we can ever get back to that.

[waitingtoconnect]

The thing is whether you are conservative like a Joe Scarbough or liberal like a Rachel Maddow the people here are all thinking people.

If you go back before 2016 on this forum we were actually discussing real issues.

[Kurth]

Aww.

Just a voice of dissent here to say that “aww” shouldn’t really be all that sarcastic. We should all, collectively, be saying “aww,” and we should mean it. The demise of the GOP is not a victory. This is not winning. We are all losing.

[waitingtoconnect]

You are right - it’s an utter disaster. We are headed for a one party state one way or another.

We’ve seen in Texas, Mississipi, California and Mass. what a problem that can be. No one party can dominate too long they get arrogant and useless.

[Blackhawk]

We don't need a one-party system, no. But I'm not sure that the second party can be the Republican party again. It's name and legacy have become tainted. I really wish that the sane Republicans (wherever they got to) would form a viable new conservative party under a new name based on older conservative principles and let the MAGAs have the old one.

[Kraken]

That might happen if Republicans get slaughtered again in '24. But their party can only mark time until TFG dies.

[Isgrimnur]

Aww.

Just a voice of dissent here to say that “aww” shouldn’t really be all that sarcastic. We should all, collectively, be saying “aww,” and we should mean it. The demise of the GOP is not a victory. This is not winning. We are all losing.

If I wasn't expecting the national PsTB to parachute in and rebuild, I'd probably be less sarcastic.

[Dramatist]

We don't need a one-party system, no. But I'm not sure that the second party can be the Republican party again. It's name and legacy have become tainted. I really wish that the sane Republicans (wherever they got to) would form a viable new conservative party under a new name based on older conservative principles and let the MAGAs have the old one.

This is what I hope for too. I think that for this to happen the MAGA Republican Party has to get trounced in 2024.


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[Carpet_pissr]

I really wish that the sane Republicans (wherever they got to) would form a viable new conservative party under a new name based on older conservative principles and let the MAGAs have the old one.

I was fully expecting this to have already happened by now, but whatever noises were made about it a year (two?) ago have long been silenced. I think there was a window of opportunity there, and some were pushing for it, but it died on the vine for whatever reason. Some oligarch probably pushed the "NO" button.

[coopasonic]

I would be fine if Biden, Pelosi and Schumer started up the new conservative party and let our "radical left" actually be left. We can have corporate democrats vs actual liberals.

I know. I am a dreamer.

[LordMortis]

I would be fine if Biden, Pelosi and Schumer started up the new conservative party and let our "radical left" actually be left. We can have corporate democrats vs actual liberals.

I know. I am a dreamer.

Gotta come from the other end or all it does is give power to the "reactionary right" who are already way outsized in power relative to the volume of people who fit the bill.

[YellowKing]

That might happen if Republicans get slaughtered again in '24. But their party can only mark time until TFG dies.

Yeah, I think the only way MAGA dies is when Trump kicks the bucket. That's not to say MAGA ideals will be dead, but I don't think anyone other than Trump has the ability to hold sway over the party. When Trump dies, you'll finally see the GOP splinter into factions, and that's the best opportunity for a faction other than MAGA to capture a portion of the voting public.

[Blackhawk]

I would be fine if Biden, Pelosi and Schumer started up the new conservative party and let our "radical left" actually be left. We can have corporate democrats vs actual liberals.

I know. I am a dreamer.

I've always thought that if the 'center' 50% got together and formed a party, they'd be unbeatable - the far left and right would be stuck with 25% each.

[gbasden]

We don't need a one-party system, no. But I'm not sure that the second party can be the Republican party again. It's name and legacy have become tainted. I really wish that the sane Republicans (wherever they got to) would form a viable new conservative party under a new name based on older conservative principles and let the MAGAs have the old one.

This is what I hope for too. I think that for this to happen the MAGA Republican Party has to get trounced in 2024 North has to win the second civil war.

FTFY

[waitingtoconnect]

A second civil war would be along the lines of the troubles in Northern Ireland. A sectarian struggle with no armies battling it out.

The issue is trump appeals to most white people (60%+) who want a return to the America of the 1950s to 1980s where if you saw a black person at all they were your janitor, your taxi driver or your waiter. There is mass “illegal voting” because non whites shouldn’t be allowed to vote in their minds. This issue has come up because basically people were ignored in the Great Recession and now they are still upset.

As with Brexit in the Uk it would be a massive shot in all four limbs and the head simultaneously. And as in the Uk once you get out of the big cities and into the giant conurbation and rural areas people dream of a past long gone.

The biggest issue is we’ve forgotten how to compromise. That we can all get rich together. That necessitous men are not free men and that those is how democracies die. The fault lines between the founding fathers were incredibly similar to what we have today - slavery, women’s rights (John Adam’s wife wanted the vote and was told by him, no, only rich educated property owning men can be trusted), voting rights for the poor and property owners rights trumping individual rights.

[Carpet_pissr]

A second civil war would be along the lines of the troubles in Northern Ireland. A sectarian struggle with no armies battling it out.

I buy that.

[Blackhawk]

Unlike the Civil War, there are no geographical boundaries in place that divide us. We're all mixed in everywhere, even in red and blue states.

So, yeah - no pitched battles, just people attacking the Other, real or imagined.

[Pyperkub]

Unlike the Civil War, there are no geographical boundaries in place that divide us. We're all mixed in everywhere, even in red and blue states.

So, yeah - no pitched battles, just people attacking the Other, real or imagined.

We're already seeing this, see RW violence against, oh, everyone.

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[waitingtoconnect]

Yes, Arguably the second civil war or American Troubles have already begun given January 6 and attacks on things like the power grid. To an extent the mass shootings could also be a factor.

If you look at the two major political groups in Northern Ireland you’ll see uncompromising language very similar to the democrats and republicans.

[Kurth]

Yes, Arguably the second civil war or American Troubles have already begun given January 6 and attacks on things like the power grid. To an extent the mass shootings could also be a factor.

If you look at the two major political groups in Northern Ireland you’ll see uncompromising language very similar to the democrats and republicans.

I’m sorry, but this is fantasy land. There is no “second civil war” or “American Troubles” going on right now. That’s just not happening. We’re not there yet.

[Blackhawk]

What we're dealing with right now is isolated, (mostly) uncoordinated domestic terror events. When we start seeing political rallies, crowded public places, and symbolic locations targeted on a regular basis (you know, like school shootings), then we're in the 'Troubles' phase.

[Smoove_B]

Yes. we're seeing signs of it escalating but instead of it sparking interest or changes in behavior from the unmotivated masses that don't vote, it seems to be kicking off even more indifference. And with the next season of NFL football about to start, who can blame them!

By way of example, the big thread on my local social media feed over the last 24 hour is about restaurants and poor customer service. "No one wants to work" (of course) and customers demand satisfaction. That is what's critically important right now.

[Carpet_pissr]

attacks on things like the power grid.

Please explain.

[Carpet_pissr]

Yes. we're seeing signs of it escalating but instead of it sparking interest or changes in behavior from the unmotivated masses that don't vote, it seems to be kicking off even more indifference. And with the next season of NFL football about to start, who can blame them!

By way of example, the big thread on my local social media feed over the last 24 hour is about restaurants and poor customer service. "No one wants to work" (of course) and customers demand satisfaction. That is what's critically important right now.

Wait, are you saying that people are so myopic and self-centered that they mostly only care about what happens around them, and about things that affect them directly, and don't realize that a lot of those negative things they are experiencing hyper locally are caused by larger societal problems that they have no interest in fixing, much less reading about or listening to? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE INSINUATING SIR?!?!?

[Smoove_B]

I know, I know. I'm just tired of thinking (hoping?) anything will change. The planet is literally on fire and people are more concerned about their takeout order being wrong.

[Pyperkub]

What we're dealing with right now is isolated, (mostly) uncoordinated domestic terror events. When we start seeing political rallies, crowded public places, and symbolic locations targeted on a regular basis (you know, like school shootings), then we're in the 'Troubles' phase.

3 percenters, Oath keepers, etc are actually coordinating. See also Charlottesville and others

It's relatively small scale for now, but the violence has been ramping up for years. See the Pride flag assassination, Pelosi's husband, plots to kill the Michigan governor, death threats to jurors and judges, drive by shootings and other attacks on power stations.

I expect another surge as 2024 heats up and Trump stokes the fires again. Will he take 1/6 to eleven?

Of course he will, he's Trump, and the RW loonies will take that to 111... but how much have the rest of us learned? How much of this garbage will we continue to stand by and allow? Will law enforcement finally take this seriously, or will they continue to wave it off and tacitly support it (in part to continue enabling and covering up unethical, if not outright illegal behaviors)?

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[Blackhawk]

What we're dealing with right now is isolated, (mostly) uncoordinated domestic terror events. When we start seeing political rallies, crowded public places, and symbolic locations targeted on a regular basis (you know, like school shootings), then we're in the 'Troubles' phase.

3 percenters, Oath keepers, etc are actually coordinating. See also Charlottesville and others

Thus the '(mostly)'. And even in Charlottesville, the assholes were coordinated - but the actual attack was one man acting alone.

[GreenGoo]

I’m sorry, but this is fantasy land. There is no “second civil war” or “American Troubles” going on right now. That’s just not happening. We’re not there yet.

What determines when you're "there" yet?

Blackhawk's description is when it is in full effect. What constitutes the beginning of the troubles?

I'd argue that getting shot for a flag you've put up or having a van plow into a crowd of protestors are very clearly the start.

You have 1 party of a 2 party system actively targeting "others". I'd even argue that that party is actively insinuating that violence is acceptable.

It's starting. Unless these events are fake news, the avalanche has already begun, it just hasn't buried everyone on the sidelines yet. And until it does, as malchoir says, "very serious people" are going to claim everything is fine and people are overreacting.

[Blackhawk]

attacks on things like the power grid.

Please explain.

How the US power grid is a target for far-right groups

Far-right groups are increasingly talking about attacking the US power grid to cause chaos and advance their cause, terrorism experts say.

The warnings come as the founder of a neo-Nazi group and a woman appeared in court on Friday charged with plotting to attack power installations around Baltimore.

In addition to the alleged Baltimore plot, investigators are looking into several recent attacks on power installations, including incidents in North Carolina, Oregon and Washington state.

The North Carolina attack, in Moore County in early December, knocked out power to 35,000 people for several days. Nobody has been arrested and the investigation is ongoing.