Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:47 am

ChrisGrenard wrote:If anybody wants, I've got a handle on Pyromancer now and can offer build advice if you want it.

I would. I started with a Warrior before my PS3 crapped out and got my replacement up and running today. The warrior doesn't fit my 'hybrid' playstyle so I was planning on rerolling a Pyro.

e1123 · Post by **e1123** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:49 am

Master Key benefit

Spoiler:

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:53 am

Inverarity wrote:Additional bonfires, before they're kindled, will give me whatever I have on me, up to 10, with a minimum of 5.

Actually, I'm not sure there's an upper limit, though you'll rarely see anything over 10. Any time someone close to you, both on the network and physically on the map, kindles a bonfire, you get an extra flask. You'll hear a distinct sound when this happen. This way you can be fighting your way through some tough battles while seeing your flask count dropping dangerously low, when you suddenly get one or two extra flasks simply because another player spent some humanity. I've heard of players with 20 flasks at one time.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:30 pm

Hey, that happened to me last night and until now I didn't know why. I was running away from a black knight with just two flasks when suddenly I heard a noise and stopped running long enough to see I had been given a a third flask. Which I would have used had the black knight not immediately slaughtered me.

Do the messages I leave on the ground remain in the game world when I am not playing? Or do they disappear with me?

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:35 pm

Okay, Chris's Basic Pyro Build (rough edition)

General Directions:

1) Start with a Pyro with a Master Key.

2) After completing the tutorial, head towards the Undead Burg. Fight your way through here. Visit the shopkeeper and purchase a bow and a lot of arrows.

3) Work your way through the second part of the Undead Burg, kill the Taurus Demon with your fire spells and also with the good ol' drop attack.

(I could be missing a step here about finding the cellar key allowing you into the Lower Undead Burg.)

4) Head down into the lower levels below the Undead Burg (via the infamous Bridge Run in front of the Red Dragon) and open up the quick pathway back to Firelink Shrine.

5) Assist other people with the Capra Demon fight until you are comfortable with your level of power and can take him on yourself. Make sure you summon friends to help with this one!

6) Head down into The Depths below Undead Burg. You need to free the friendly Pyromancer down here. You will have to fight a Butcher, who will be tough to kill. After you free him, go back to Firelink Shrine.

7) Power up your pyro powers with the NPC Pyromancer's help. Get new spells. Combustion is amazing due to large numbers of casts plus fast cast time. Use it to kill many tough enemies.

8) You should be strong enough now to go get more arrows and shoot the Red Dragon's tail to acquire a cool sword. Go do this.

9) Time to run across the bridge the whole way. If you need help with this, google "Dark Souls Red Dragon bridge"

10) Now it's time for you to clear out the Undead Parish and kill the boss here. There is a blacksmith in the back right of the Undead Parish and also an elevator that will take you back to Firelink Shrine. Be sure to find them both.

That should get you a good ways in!

Stat Building:

Pyro doesn't need high INT. Instead, I would recommend focusing on a little strength but mostly DEX. This way you can use finesse weapons and bows very easily. The Pyromancer's biggest weakness is very low range on their magic, so the bow makes up for this. Faith is also useless to this build, unless you want to use the faith-based sword that you can get fairly early on.

Equipment Guide:

Light armor for good rolling, a strong shield and good Dex based weapons. Remember, the Pyro is a warrior-mage, use your magic power to knock out the big and resilient foes while using your weapons to handle the little guys. Most of the boss fights will be won by rolling sideways and throwing fireballs, so never weigh yourself down too much.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:18 pm

Am I correct in thinking that the only difference between starting as a pyro and starting as a bandit is the starting gear and the starting stats? Meaning, I could focus on other stats and get my Bandit to be every bit as badass a pyro as an actual pyro? Or is there something specific - something inherent - about each class?

e1123 · Post by **e1123** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:33 pm

Class doesn't matter after the first ten levels or so. I prefer to start in these games as a melee and then move into magic.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:15 pm

Inverarity wrote:Am I correct in thinking that the only difference between starting as a pyro and starting as a bandit is the starting gear and the starting stats? Meaning, I could focus on other stats and get my Bandit to be every bit as badass a pyro as an actual pyro? Or is there something specific - something inherent - about each class?

Yes and no. Pyro starts with a Fireball spell, and you can purchase a *second* Fireball spell, thus giving you twice as many uses. Other classes wouldn't have that capability.

That said, I do recommend Pyro as a secondary class for nearly any melee oriented player.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:59 pm

Interesting. I may start over as I think I put too many points to Vitality. And because I want to see how it plays as a different style (magic versus melee). Which highlights why this game's formula is so different than most games. I always dread the thought of starting over a game like an RPG because I don't want to have to revisit the quests...especially when I'm just starting out and the quests are fresh on my mind.

This game, however, is like "Go ahead and start over, you're only about 5 minutes from the beginning anyway. Sure, you've invested four hours, but you can practically still see the starting bonfire. It's like a straight line. Go for it already."

I picked up the official guide at lunch. It's amazing. Hard cover, well made, doesn't feel cheap at all. And tons of info of course, presented in a way that won't spoil the game (as long as you don't look at all of it, naturally). It reminds me of an AD&D Player's Handbook. Had I not played the game, I might have been happy with just the book.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:20 pm

I'm really ticked off by the one boss. Never in the first game did I feel like it was being cheap, but this one freaking boss is making me want to just toss in the towel for a little while. Holy hell toss me in a little room and kill me in two seconds. F'n lame lame lame.

I've been trying for hours to beat it and I haven't even come close.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:46 pm

Octavious wrote:I'm really ticked off by the one boss. Never in the first game did I feel like it was being cheap, but this one freaking boss is making me want to just toss in the towel for a little while. Holy hell toss me in a little room and kill me in two seconds. F'n lame lame lame. I've been trying for hours to beat it and I haven't even come close.

Which boss?

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:24 am

I could have sworn I posted a reply to this post an hour ago, but it's nowhere to be found now...

ChrisGrenard wrote:
Octavious wrote:I'm really ticked off by the one boss. Never in the first game did I feel like it was being cheap, but this one freaking boss is making me want to just toss in the towel for a little while. Holy hell toss me in a little room and kill me in two seconds. F'n lame lame lame. I've been trying for hours to beat it and I haven't even come close.
Which boss?

Isn't it obvious? I'm willing to bet it's the Capra Demon. Here's a little guide to beating it that I wrote on the GT forums yesterday:

Spoiler:

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:38 am

Making slow and semi-steady progress through the bosses. There's no way I could have done it without bringing in co-op partners, so thank you, random internet strangers!

Spoiler:

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:24 pm

TiLT wrote:I could have sworn I posted a reply to this post an hour ago, but it's nowhere to be found now...

ChrisGrenard wrote:
Octavious wrote:I'm really ticked off by the one boss. Never in the first game did I feel like it was being cheap, but this one freaking boss is making me want to just toss in the towel for a little while. Holy hell toss me in a little room and kill me in two seconds. F'n lame lame lame. I've been trying for hours to beat it and I haven't even come close.
Which boss?
Isn't it obvious? I'm willing to bet it's the Capra Demon. Here's a little guide to beating it that I wrote on the GT forums yesterday:

Spoiler:
Unequip stuff (ranged weapons and armor first) until you're at least below 50% equip weight, but ideally even below 25% (beat Havel the Rock at the bottom of the tower you left to fight the Taurus Demon if necessary. This gives you a ring that gives +25 max equip weight). This speeds you up considerably. At the start of the fight, run directly towards the capra demon, but veer right and roll (not jump, so you have to let go of the run button for a moment before hitting it again) by it on the right side at the very last moment (not too early, or he'll adjust and hit you anyway). Roll left, then roll again so that you get onto the stairs. Run like hell up to the arc above the doorway, leading directly away from the stairs. Once you're there, deal with the dogs if they're nearby. Once the capra demon gets more than halfway up the stairs, drop down and wait for him to follow you (deal with the dogs now if they're still alive). Once he drops down, give him a strike or two from your weapon and run up the stairs again. Keep the guy targeted and block as you move up the first half of the stairs, as he can still hit you. Move out onto the arc and wait for him to climb the stairs again. Jump down, and repeat the entire process until he dies. Do it this way and he won't even be able to attack you. The trick is getting rid of the dogs, and the best way to do that is to make a beeline directly for the arc right away. Once they're gone, you'll have plenty of time to calm down and drink estus flasks.

The trick here is the arc. Just climbing to the top of the stairs wasn't enough, as I discovered to my dismay. By standing on the arc you make it really hard (but not impossible, so stay alert!) for the capra demon to attack you without climbing the entire stairs first.

See that's what ticks me off though. You pretty much have to follow a exact sequence when you run into the room or your toast. I never had anything like that happen in the first game. Very annoying, but it sounds like this is the only one so I'll just have to power through it. I'm thinking I might have to restart though because I accidentally wacked the merchant in the area. I can redeem myself at the bell tower, but it's like 32,000 souls.

Need to see if that merchant has anything good before I do that though.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:25 pm

Ugh just looked up the list of stuff she sells and I totally hosed myself.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:40 pm

2 hours trying to get out of the first area after the intro and thousands of souls lost. I'm in some undead burg area and can't survive to the next flame. I wonder if there is an easier place to start that I missed.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:37 pm

Jag wrote:2 hours trying to get out of the first area after the intro and thousands of souls lost. I'm in some undead burg area and can't survive to the next flame. I wonder if there is an easier place to start that I missed.

That's pretty much the standard starting area. Where do you keep getting killed?

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:50 pm

Various places. I think there was a Black Knight that was facing away from me (over 2k lost there). Another was down down a long set of spiral stairs where a guy with a massive club one-shot me and of course just stupid COMPLACENCY deaths when I got too impatient to lure single enemies away from their pack.

I'm reading a walkthrough now and it seems I missed some easy items near the Fire Shrine(?) such as a spear which was my primary fighting weapon in DS1. I think I need to go back, before I go forward.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:38 pm

Jag wrote:Various places. I think there was a Black Knight that was facing away from me (over 2k lost there). Another was down down a long set of spiral stairs where a guy with a massive club one-shot me and of course just stupid COMPLACENCY deaths when I got too impatient to lure single enemies away from their pack.

I'm reading a walkthrough now and it seems I missed some easy items near the Fire Shrine(?) such as a spear which was my primary fighting weapon in DS1. I think I need to go back, before I go forward.

You don't necessarily need to go back at this point. Both of the bad-ass dudes you mention are completely optional at this point. When I was going through the Undead Burg, I skipped the guy at the bottom of the spiral stairs and still haven't gone back to him. And I defeated that Black Knight using Massive Cheese:

Spoiler:

Complacency, I can't help you with. That still gets me killed on a regular basis.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:50 pm

Regarding the cheese method, I know where it is, he killed me right in front of that spot as I was running for my life.

I haven't found a merchant yet, which is another reason I think I'm missing some basic stuff.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:45 pm

If you're having a lot of difficulty, I'm noticing a few Youtube videos of various areas are beginning to pop up.

Also, I have gotten an *excellent* Fast Priest build going. So far it's the best character I've made.

Here's what you do:

1) Make a Priest with the Master Key.

2) Complete tutorial.

3) Upgrade Dex by 2, getting it to 10.

4) Go down to the Londo Ruins, and use the Master Key to grant you access to the Drake area.

5) There is an undead dragon way down the valley. It will attack you when you put up BOTH of the items near his left hand. Instead, pick up the item at his right paw (souls), then the leftmost item (Straight Sword of Astora.) Then just leave, he won't attack you.

6) Equip said sword, do MASSIVE damage! This thing can even kill the skeletons! By far the best damage build I've had so far, and it can be done with almost no effort at all.

Edit: Video!!

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:17 pm

Character #4 on its way...

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:39 pm

I should also point out that the way I'm building this priest is actually going to be a Priest/Pyro. Since Pyro can coexist without any stats needed at all (outside of Attunement, for spell slots), I should have a great primary Faith weapon mixed with strong fire-based nuke spells for the divine-resistant enemies.

The beauty of this design is that it doesn't require high player stats. Most of the good damage comes from good equipment, meaning no more painful 5000+-souls-per-level-up issues.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:10 pm

I guess you can also go Pyro first then Priest, since you only need 6 more points in Faith for the Pyro to wield this.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:17 pm

Jag wrote:I guess you can also go Pyro first then Priest, since you only need 6 more points in Faith for the Pyro to wield this.

The priest first build is easier due to the difficulty in just unlocking the pyro trainer. (I think. testing now.)

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:03 pm

Jag wrote:I haven't found a merchant yet, which is another reason I think I'm missing some basic stuff.

I definitely explore a lot and recommend doing the same. In fact, I spent all of last night making very little progress from a plot stand point. But I explored everything (in the Undead Burg) and learned a lot about how to play (and how I play). It was one of the best nights of gaming I've ever had. And I say this because I was missing a lot of stuff too until I decided to just poke around for awhile. The level design is crazy. Every time I think I've cleared out an area I find another passage to go down or crates to destroy....

Oh, and as for the black knight, I built up some confidence (and experience) so I decided to make my 12th attempt at killing him. This time I had a plan to bring him to an open area way back by the 2nd bonfire (the first in the Undead Burg). The only problem with that plan was me falling to my death in my haste to get away from him. But apparently that always vigilant SoB knight decided to follow me off the ledge too, since when I went back to his spot for the 14th time he was gone. Officially, I'm calling it a win.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:42 pm

Let's call it a draw

I found the merchant. I think I was just too tired from work (and frankly too scared) to explore my first night. This is not an easy game to play with dulled senses.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:54 am

Amen to that. This game's motto should be "bring it all, or don't bother showing up (and even when you do, prepare to die)."

Speaking of which, I rang my first bell tonight. Wooohooo! That was a long, long fight, but I managed to do it on my first try. And, feeling a bit cocky, I took on another Black Knight. After a slight mishap with some firebombs, I returned to collect my souls and finally kill a damn Black Knight. For my troubles, I got his sword, which is much too heavy for me at the moment.

Anyway, time to get back at it.

Covenant72 · Post by **Covenant72** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:04 am

Last night was AWESOME, yet another reminder of how great this game is. Thought it was gonna turn out bad as within 30 seconds of meeting my first really dangerous dude down in the depths, I got cursed (you know the ones I mean). I ran out and got cured, then hunkered down and got more serious. Next thing you know, I get to the end of sewers, open up the shortcut, kill the boss on my first try (wow was he easy), and get into blighttown.

Other than the obvious framerate issues, blighttown is BEAUTIFUL. A very nice change of scenery that comes just at the right moment and it seems to ramp up the difficulty a step. I was basically blowing through everything up to there with no real issues. Once I hit blighttown I had to slow way down and started dying again while I learned the enemies' move sets. I have it down fairly well now, but still have to be careful. Navigating is tough in there as ladders are hard to see, but it makes exploring a challenge which I like. Made it to the bonfire on the stone platform (maybe halfway through? not sure) and a little past when the wife got home and I had to stop. I'm currently staring at some nasty looking thing straight out of Lovecraft down below me and wondering how I'm going to get to it and kill it.

Oh, spoilers for a super easy way to kill the rat mini-boss in the sewers.

Spoiler:

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:03 am

This game is so very rewarding. You work your ass off to get to a boss, learn how to defeat it, and then beat him. This in turn opens up areas to explore beyond him or around him or a new item.... I mean it's big time risk for reward, and I love the formula.

I think it works even better than the first game -- which I also love and still haven't sold. I usually sell my games after some time to get some of my cash back. Not Demon Souls, and not Dark Souls. I'll keep these.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:48 pm

Instead of totally starting over I grabbed my warrior dude who was level 10 and quickly got him up to where I was with the other guy. Now I'm stuck at that damn demon with him. Maybe I should stop playing when I'm drinking beer? I tried to get someone else to assist, but there was nobody around last night. I got someone to help with the gargoyles which made a somewhat hard fight totally easy. Is there no rating system anymore like the last game? I didn't see one. I liked being able to give a letter grade on how helpful they were...

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:35 pm

Grabbed the awesome guide. It does remind me of a player's handbook from D&D.

And wow -- I never knew the game was that deep! Glad I got the guide.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:51 pm

msduncan wrote:This game is so very rewarding. You work your ass off to get to a boss, learn how to defeat it, and then beat him. This in turn opens up areas to explore beyond him or around him or a new item.... I mean it's big time risk for reward, and I love the formula

Yep, I love how simple it is. No side quests in a journal, no "surprise! you've just completed a level, now reverse course and go backwards through it." This game just comes right out and says "hey, I'm going to make you fight a bunch of baddies and when you're good enough, you can move on." Moving on is the reward.

Octavious wrote: Is there no rating system anymore like the last game? I didn't see one. I liked being able to give a letter grade on how helpful they were...

There is. At least, you can indict players. Not sure if you can give out praise. For the indictments, you have to beat the gargoyles first. I wish we could team up, I'd love to help (and once you see me play you'll feel better about your own skills

), but I don't think it works like that.

msduncan wrote:Grabbed the awesome guide. It does remind me of a player's handbook from D&D.

And wow -- I never knew the game was that deep! Glad I got the guide.

Sweet. You can avoid spoilers if you're careful. I've been reading it after I complete a section in the game. It's really adding something extra to the process and it's great to read through after a tense session in the game. Sort of a cool down process.

Speaking of which, last night I beat the Prowling Demon (took 7 tries) and made it to some crazy-ass garden. It was then I realized I had ended up in a place I wasn't prepared - or leveled - for. Quick turn-around and I'm off to find a more appropriate path.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:46 am

Sons of bitches! Bumpuses!

Five times I went into the fight against the Capra Demon with my souls and humanity on the ground in his location, and five times I managed to pick them back up before he got me (thereby preserving my chance to retrieve them). I was even getting closer to beating him. So then I revive at the bonfire and in my haste to get back there for a sixth time, I accidentally unequip my weapon while a dog bites me and then proceed to run away scared right off the side of of a ledge.

Damn this game. Damn it damn it damn it

(I love it so).

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:22 am

I restarted as a Deprived just to see if I could do it. Made it out of the Asylum without dying once. Made it up to the second Bonfire without a death as well. Bought some armor and an axe from the undead merchant.

Remind me again how I can get him equipped with fireball? I'll need that for the bull demon.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:14 am

msduncan wrote:I restarted as a Deprived just to see if I could do it. Made it out of the Asylum without dying once. Made it up to the second Bonfire without a death as well. Bought some armor and an axe from the undead merchant.

Remind me again how I can get him equipped with fireball? I'll need that for the bull demon.

You need to do the following: Defeat Taurus Demon. Run halfway across the bridge. Go into the castle, get behind where the second iron gateway is, get a Basement Key up there. Use this key on the door near Soltaire (the Sun knight). Go down there and defeat the Capra Demon. Use the key he gives you to enter The Abyss below you, and go down and defeat the first butcher, then find a room full of jars. The pyromancer is in there, roll into him to free him from his jar. Go back to Firelink Shrine to talk with him.

All of this, at maximum speed, should take about 2 hours.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:05 pm

I just got stupid and overconfident and it lost me 10,000 souls and 5 humanity.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:27 pm

Hmmm... I was using the pyro spells to get past some of the mobs and bosses. Will be tough to do without the spells for that long. I do like the depraved starting stats though... I think it gives you a large starting boost.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:34 pm

I wonder what I've lost on the Capra Demon (who I still can't beat). At least 5 humanity and 15,000 souls I suspect, since I had 6000+ when I met him the first time (not knowing he was there or I would have stopped at a bonfire first) and I've retried another 10 times (I end up with more than 800 souls on each journey back).

Speaking of which, is there a closer bonfire to the Capra Demon than the one I'm using? I'm still at what's considered the 2nd bonfire of the game (the one in the burg near the first enemy crossbow guy...the one that you kick the ladder to get to after encountering HellKite). I can't figure it out from the strategy guide without spoiler'ing myself.

e1123 · Post by **e1123** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:00 pm

Inverarity wrote:I wonder what I've lost on the Capra Demon (who I still can't beat). At least 5 humanity and 15,000 souls I suspect, since I had 6000+ when I met him the first time (not knowing he was there or I would have stopped at a bonfire first) and I've retried another 10 times (I end up with more than 800 souls on each journey back).

Speaking of which, is there a closer bonfire to the Capra Demon than the one I'm using? I'm still at what's considered the 2nd bonfire of the game (the one in the burg near the first enemy crossbow guy...the one that you kick the ladder to get to after encountering HellKite). I can't figure it out from the strategy guide without spoiler'ing myself.

Firelink Shrine is closer, I think. The shortcut is down the stairs by the demon's wall. What level are you? Don't go in there without at least one person. It's a good place to pimp yourself out as a phantom if you need some humanity.