Disaster Tourism: The Titanic

[GreenGoo]

Given the number of Canadian ships involved, the Canadian taxpayer is making a not insignificant contribution to the overall expense.

Read a headline for an opinion piece that read something like "We must spare no expense in the search for..."

That's as far as I got.

[Octavious]

The U.S. Coast Guard is apparently holding a press conference at 3pm today regarding the use of their remotely operated vehicle (ROV) near the Titanic.

A debris field was discovered within the search area by an ROV near the Titanic. Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information.

"debris" and "field" are not words often associated with finding survivors.

That's what I was expecting. I mean on the bright side its' better than them bobbing around in the dark until they perish? What a shit show.

[Max Peck]

Meanwhile, if you rescue migrants instead of billionaires, you might be facing a couple of decades in prison.

Pia Klemp (born 10 October 1983) is a German biologist and human rights activist, who, between 2011 and 2017, worked for the Sea Shepherd organization to participate in many international operations to protect sea animals.

Between 2016 and 2018 she commanded two rescue ships in the Mediterranean Sea for the German non-government organizations (NGOs) Jugend Rettet and Sea-Watch during the ongoing European migrant crisis. Her ships rescued about 14,000 migrants from drowning. Klemp was responsible for the rescue of more than a thousand of them. One of her ships, Iuventa, was seized by Italian authorities in 2017, who accused her of cooperating with human traffickers, and claimed many of those saved were at no imminent risk of death. If convicted, she will face 20 years in prison. Her newer ship, Sea-Watch 3 was prevented from departing its dock by Maltese authorities for several months in 2018.

Oops, my bad. When they're poor, it isn't "rescuing" but rather "trafficking" apparently.

[Isgrimnur]

"debris" and "field" are not words often associated with finding survivors.

Nor is the term 'survivors' associated with those depths.

[Rumpy]

I'm shocked that even with all those backup systems that all of them managed to fail.

Maybe all those backup systems depend on something that failed. So a single point of failure cause all the backup systems to fail.

Quite possibly, but usually when designing things that have probable danger involved, there are almost always backups that rely on different power sources. You want redundancies. To have all of them based on a single point of failure is just asking for trouble.

Given the number of Canadian ships involved, the Canadian taxpayer is making a not insignificant contribution to the overall expense.

Yeah, and I've heard of comments from the general taxpaying public that we shouldn't be paying to rescue millionaires. I don't really agree, but it is a grey area.

[Blackhawk]

"debris" and "field" are not words often associated with finding survivors.

Nor is the term 'survivors' associated with those depths.

This may sound odd, but this is probably good news. At this point, short of a desert island in the middle of the North Atlantic, they are all dead regardless. Better that it was an implosion (which, at 4km, would have been extremely fast) than sitting in the freezing dark for days on end knowing that they were about to die.

[Blackhawk]

Via BBC:

We have just had an update from dive expert David Mearns, who says the debris includes "a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible".

[Max Peck]

To have all of them based on a single point of failure is just asking for trouble.

There's always going to be a single point of failure of some sort. Such as the hull, for example.

[Max Peck]

Via BBC:

We have just had an update from dive expert David Mearns, who says the debris includes "a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible".

Apparently Lord British told a friend who told some friends...

We have just had an update from dive expert David Mearns, who says the debris includes "a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible".

Mearns is a friend of passengers aboard the Titan.

Mearns has told the BBC that the president of the Explorers Club (which is connected to the diving and rescue community), provided this new information.

I mean, we couldn't have the Coast Guard notify the families before releasing the information to the press or anything like that.

[Zaxxon]

Ouch. Too soon?

[Zaxxon]

[Isgrimnur]

At least it would have been quick.

[raydude]

Shocking details about the Titan and OceanGate have emerged this week. That included the surfacing of comments from the company’s founder, Stockton Rush, bemoaning regulations and calling safety efforts a “pure waste.” Rush is believed to have been on board Titan’s most recent dive.

“I mean if you just want to be safe, don’t get out of bed, don’t get in your car, don’t do anything,” Rush told CBS News in a podcast last year. “At some point, you’re going to take some risk, and it really is a risk-reward question.”

Flaws with the Titan, like its lack of a basic locator beacon and failed safety checks, became widely reported for the first time this week. Possible leadership failures also emerged, with The Daily Beast revealing that Rush was sued for fraud by a Florida couple who claim they paid for a Titanic voyage but never received one.

The sketchiness of Rush’s operation was enough to put off at least one potential passenger for Sunday’s trip, who surrendered an $88,000 deposit to steer clear of the Titan.

Chalk another one up for the "you follow safety regulations for a reason" crowd. I mean, you don't hear of space company startups bemoaning safety regulations on crewed spaceflight. Why would you treat a deep diving submersible any different?
More from this article

[Max Peck]

One comment that Pogue made in his interview spoke to the company's safety culture. There have been many references to how the hatch was sealed in place by 17 bolts, but according to Pogue there are actually 18. They never bothered with the 18th bolt because it's "way up high." I doubt that the missing bolt is what did them in, but it says a lot about the unserious nature of the entire enterprise.

[Octavious]

That one reporter that went down on that sub and made it back must be counting his lucky stars. What a crazy story.

[El Guapo]

The sketchiness of Rush’s operation was enough to put off at least one potential passenger for Sunday’s trip, who surrendered an $88,000 deposit to steer clear of the Titan.

Man, imagine being that guy. It's rare in life to get such immediate and dramatic feedback on a decision that you made.

[El Guapo]

short of a desert island in the middle of the North Atlantic, they are all dead regardless.

[Blackhawk]

We're going to be hearing Rush's name for decades whenever someone poo-poos safety standards and regulations. He'll gain fame as a cautionary tale.

Also, his innovation is almost certain to win him posthumous awards.

Spoiler:

He's almost guaranteed a Darwin

[Rumpy]

One comment that Pogue made in his interview spoke to the company's safety culture. There have been many references to how the hatch was sealed in place by 17 bolts, but according to Pogue there are actually 18. They never bothered with the 18th bolt because it's "way up high." I doubt that the missing bolt is what did them in, but it says a lot about the unserious nature of the entire enterprise.

Yeah, it really does. It makes it feel super sketchy. It has the feel of something ramshackle.

[Holman]

As much as I firmly believe that every billionaire (or even multi-millionaire) is a failure of society to allocate resources justly, I hate seeing people laugh at suffering. Dying of suffocation at the bottom of the ocean is a horror, and no horror should ever be celebrated.

I get it. Honestly, though, what isn't a horror when it comes to watching someone die when they shouldn't have to - and then when you weigh all those examples vs. 4 billionaires that died by just "going for it" -- wtf.

Was it not your previous signature that basically educated on this position?

I'm confused by this. What previous signature do you mean? I haven't changed mine in a very long time.

“Every billionaire is a policy failure. “
I think that was yours?

I realize I’ve run with the sentiment a bit here.

Nah, I never used that one as a sig.

[Unagi]

We're going to be hearing Rush's name for decades whenever someone poo-poos safety standards and regulations. He'll gain fame as a cautionary tale.

Also, his innovation is almost certain to win him posthumous awards.

Spoiler:

He's almost guaranteed a Darwin

Did his kids die too ?

[Unagi]

As much as I firmly believe that every billionaire (or even multi-millionaire) is a failure of society to allocate resources justly, I hate seeing people laugh at suffering. Dying of suffocation at the bottom of the ocean is a horror, and no horror should ever be celebrated.

I get it. Honestly, though, what isn't a horror when it comes to watching someone die when they shouldn't have to - and then when you weigh all those examples vs. 4 billionaires that died by just "going for it" -- wtf.

Was it not your previous signature that basically educated on this position?

I'm confused by this. What previous signature do you mean? I haven't changed mine in a very long time.

“Every billionaire is a policy failure. “
I think that was yours?

I realize I’ve run with the sentiment a bit here.

Nah, I never used that one as a sig.

Ha. Sorry. I could have sworn. In any case. I enjoy that sig.

[Max Peck]

We're going to be hearing Rush's name for decades whenever someone poo-poos safety standards and regulations. He'll gain fame as a cautionary tale.

Also, his innovation is almost certain to win him posthumous awards.

Spoiler:

He's almost guaranteed a Darwin

Did his kids die too ?

His children (if he has any) don't enter into it, although if his passengers are deemed to be innocent bystanders then he is disqualified from receiving the award.

The Darwin Awards are a tongue-in-cheek honor that originated in Usenet newsgroup discussions around 1985. They recognize individuals who have supposedly contributed to human evolution by selecting themselves out of the gene pool by dying or becoming sterilized via their own actions.

The project became more formalized with the creation of a website in 1993, followed by a series of books starting in 2000 by Wendy Northcutt. The criterion for the awards states: "In the spirit of Charles Darwin, the Darwin Awards commemorate individuals who protect our gene pool by making the ultimate sacrifice of their own lives. Darwin Award winners eliminate themselves in an extraordinarily idiotic manner, thereby improving our species' chances of long-term survival."

Accidental self-sterilization also qualifies, but the site notes: "Of necessity, the award is usually bestowed posthumously." The candidate is disqualified, though, if "innocent bystanders" are killed in the process, as they might have contributed positively to the gene pool. The logical problem presented by award winners who may have already reproduced is not addressed in the selection process owing to the difficulty of ascertaining whether or not a person has children; the Darwin Award rules state that the presence of offspring does not disqualify a nominee.

[Rumpy]

No doubt this will get turned into a movie someday. It's almost the perfect kind of thing to make into a movie.

[Max Peck]

The movie will have a twist ending, where Stockton Rush uses the Titan "accident" to fake his own death while disappearing with a stash of gold bullion that he has been slowly recovering from the Titanic wreck over the previous 2 years.

[Punisher]

The movie will have a twist ending, where Stockton Rush uses the Titan "accident" to fake his own death while disappearing with a stash of gold bullion that he has been slowly recovering from the Titanic wreck over the previous 2 years.

Or the end credit scene will show a face peeking out of one of the Titanics portholes with lights on in the background.

[Smoove_B]

Oof:

The U.S. Navy heard days ago what it thought to be the Titan submersible’s implosion, according to multiple reports—the newest development in the confirmed loss of the submersible and its five passengers.

The “anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion” was heard by a secret military acoustic detection system the Navy uses to track down enemy submarines, according to officials interviewed by the Wall Street Journal.

The sound was picked up just hours after the submersible began its dive Sunday and came from a location within the vicinity of where the submersible was when communications went down between the sub and a vessel on the surface.

The Navy began listening for the submersible as soon as it lost its signal five days ago, and shortly thereafter observed the sound.

[Max Peck]

Why oof? According to the AP article that Forbes cites, the USN detected the anomoly that was consistent with an implosion by reviewing recorded data and passed the information on to the Coast Guard, who continued with the search because the data wasn't assessed as definitive. Seems reasonble to me.

I'm just annoyed that people who should not be discussing classified military capabilities are shooting their mouths off to the press.

[Smoove_B]

Oof because it's pretty clear it was known for days there was a catastrophic failure at depth. I guess I'm reacting to the idea that it was being presented in the media as though there was hope of recovery. Granted, that was info from a top secret source, so...

[Unagi]

the Darwin Award rules state that the presence of offspring does not disqualify a nominee.

I hear ya, but I don't subscribe to that absurd rule. Of course, the presence of offspring is important - it's basically the entire point of Darwinism (IMO).

I understand that the pool of candidates would drop too much for "them" to have fun with it, but I'm OK with a more refined list of winners.

[Max Peck]

Oof because it's pretty clear it was known for days there was a catastrophic failure at depth. I guess I'm reacting to the idea that it was being presented in the media as though there was hope of recovery. Granted, that was info from a top secret source, so...

Perhaps, but the AP reported that their source said the search continued because the data was not deemed definitive.

After the craft was reported missing, the U.S. Navy went back and analyzed its acoustic data and found an anomaly that was “consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior Navy official told The Associated Press on Thursday.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive acoustic detection system.

The Navy passed on that information to the Coast Guard, which continued its search because the Navy did not consider the data to be definitive.

It was one data point that indicated that Titan had imploded, but they also had the (still unexplained) banging noises that were being detected, so it doesn't seem all that peculiar that they continued the search on a S&R basis until they had positive confirmation of the debris.

Also, we don't know how long it took the Navy to detect the anomoly. They found it by going back and analyzing recorded data, and we don't know how long that process took. We know the Coast Guard had the information before finding the debris field, but we don't know exactly when the information was passed on. In fact, it's possible that the Navy was able to provide them with a good idea where to look for the debris field, depending on how sensitive their acoustic sensors actually are and how good their directional capabilities are (since their purpose is to detect/track nuclear submarines, I'd guess very sensitive and very good). There was a lot of commentary about how difficult it would be to find something as small as the Titan at that depth, so it's very lucky that they actually located the wreckage so quickly, or at all. Or maybe it wasn't luck.

[malchior]

[Sudy]

I've been a bit surprised by the callousness of the memes and comments surrounding this elsewhere on the net. At least, before the deaths were confirmed. I hate on the ultra-rich as much as anyone else, but I don't believe they deserve to die. The same for stupid people who don't follow safety precautions. I'm not glad they're dead. Fuck the system, don't fuck the people. Is it appalling that we spend this amount of money on five privileged people compared to all the less privileged suffering people in the world? Of course. But don't tell me the money spent on search and rescue, or what the tourists paid for their tickets, would have otherwise been put toward some altruistic use.

[Max Peck]

I am shocked that someone who is paying for a Twitter checkmark is already posting memes that blame this all on... women.

[jztemple2]

[Max Peck]

This seems to make the 19-year-old passenger an innocent bystander. I'm calling it now, Stockton Rush doesn't get an official Darwin Award.

19-year-old Titan passenger was ‘terrified’ before trip, his aunt says

In the days before the Titan vessel went into the ocean off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada, the 19-year-old university student accompanying his father on the expedition expressed hesitation about going, his aunt said in an interview Thursday.

Azmeh Dawood — the older sister of Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood — told NBC News that her nephew, Suleman, informed a relative that he "wasn't very up for it" and felt "terrified" about the trip to explore the wreckage of the Titanic.

But the 19-year-old ended up going aboard OceanGate's 22-foot submersible because the trip fell over Father's Day weekend and he was eager to please his dad, who was passionate about the lore of the Titanic, according to Azmeh.

[Max Peck]

Bob Ballard has some thoughts.



This seems to be a longer version of the James Cameron interview posted in the tweet above.

[Blackhawk]

I've been a bit surprised by the callousness of the memes and comments surrounding this elsewhere on the net. At least, before the deaths were confirmed. I hate on the ultra-rich as much as anyone else, but I don't believe they deserve to die. The same for stupid people who don't follow safety precautions. I'm not glad they're dead. Fuck the system, don't fuck the people. Is it appalling that we spend this amount of money on five privileged people compared to all the less privileged suffering people in the world? Of course. But don't tell me the money spent on search and rescue, or what the tourists paid for their tickets, would have otherwise been put toward some altruistic use.

I'm not glad their dead.

But a lot of people are very, very tired of being manipulated and used by the rich, of slowly losing financial power in order to give the rich more money they can't use, and of being treated as disposable, all while being utterly helpless to do anything about it, because those same rich people have gained control over the people that should be regulating it all. The last few years have seen that behavior soar to incredible heights. People are sick of being victims.

People are fed up, and people are pissed.

I'm not glad that they died, and I'm not celebrating what happened, but I also won't deny people the right to vent, nor will I judge them for it.

[Kraken]

It's fitting that the victims of the Titan's owner's hubris are resting 1,600 feet from the victims of the Titanic owners' hubris, and that they've now doubled its tourist appeal.

[Max Peck]

Have we stopped to consider that the buck stops at the top, and it's Joe Biden's fault that the Coast Guard didn't bother to rescue those brave pioneers of the deep? Because it looks like maybe Dan Crenshaw has done just that.

Rep. Dan Crenshaw Slams Emergency Response to Doomed Sub, Calls it ‘Epic Failure of Leadership’

Former Navy SEAL and current Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX) had strong words about the emergency response to the missing OceanGate submersible this week, calling it an “epic failure of leadership.”

Crenshaw appeared on Fox News Thursday night, where host Trace Gallagher rolled tape from Crenshaw speaking to reporters on the steps of the Capitol.

“I have been hearing a lot of concerning things from people, the civilian side who are involved in this,” Crenshaw told reporters. “You know, we’ve got to look into it, see what’s true and what isn’t…What appears to be the case is epic failure in leadership. Where exactly that leadership failure is, I don’t know. Is it the White House, Coast Guard, Navy? I’m not sure.”