Random randomness

[LordMortis]

I've been seeing AD&D books like Fiend Folio and Deities & Demigods going for a fair bit of coin lately.

Deities and Demigods has an early print, less than 1000 if I remember correctly, that had copyrighted material in it. Later printings are missing that material, so the early versions are worth a fair bit.

I had one. Someone I played with at University swapped his in and took mine without me noticing. I'm still bitter.

@LM: If you happen to have one of the first printings and want to sell it, I might be willing to pay the going price, just to finally, finally get over my bitterness.

I have that as well. I dunno about less than 1000 but I know it was the Elric stuff that got removed.

[Unagi]

I've got all my originals Fiend Folio and Dieties & Demigods. I should look at their print dates/editions.

edit: 1980 and 1981. No Elric

[Brian]

I've got the 1st edition of Deities and Demigods. Elric, Cthulhu, Fafhrd & The Grey Mouser, etc.

So what are these things worth?

[LordMortis]

Google tells me people are asking for between $75 and $500. I'm guessing a reasonable shape edition is somewhere in between. No idea where you find a buyer.

This guy says Near Mint is worth $40. I assume that's what he'd pay you, not what he'd charge


http://www.tomeoftreasures.com/tot_firs ... an_1pr.htm

[Brian]

I'd need to find it first.

I'm sure it's in a box somewhere in my storage unit.

[GreenGoo]

I have that as well. I dunno about less than 1000 but I know it was the Elric stuff that got removed.

Yep. The Lovecraft stuff too. I thought there was a 3rd work but apparently not. So just those 2. (edit: as Brian mentions, fafhrd and the gray mouser were in there too).

So keep a hold of that one LM. It's worth some money.

*if* you want to sell it, let me know and tell me what you want for it. We can take this to PM if you decide you are considering selling. Otherwise congrats. Fairly rare and collectible.

edit: Same goes for you Brian. If you want to sell let me know. I'm not exaggerating when I say this is a sore spot that continues to aggravate me to this day.

edit: Hell, I'd even be willing to ship you my older printing if keeping a version of the book is important to you. Not sure what condition it's in, but should be ok. Can discuss if interested.

Lastly, no hard feelings if you aren't interested in selling, or not interested in selling to me specifically. I realize this is a shot in the dark.

[hitbyambulance]

No idea where you find a buyer.

right here in this thread, apparently

[LordMortis]

It's weird. I just prepped to get rid of computer game stuff going back to the 3.5 floppies but when it comes to the entire room full of not computer gaming I have in my basement, I won't even think about getting paring it down. The RPG stuff I own, I haven' touched since the mid 80s but I don't see me parting with it. I'll be sending bookshelves full of novels off to charity/little libraries before I parting with my games even becomes a spark. The sooner could happen this year. That later, maybe before I move, if I ever do. (I've come to hate my neighborhood and I don't see it recovering.) But probably not.

edit: you made me go look. The pages are surprisingly yellowed and a book that didn't see that much use (How often to you really need to reference dieties) has had a surprising amount of wear on the cover.

[Max Peck]

I've been seeing AD&D books like Fiend Folio and Deities & Demigods going for a fair bit of coin lately.

Deities and Demigods has an early print, less than 1000 if I remember correctly, that had copyrighted material in it. Later printings are missing that material, so the early versions are worth a fair bit.

I had one. Someone I played with at University swapped his in and took mine without me noticing. I'm still bitter.

@LM: If you happen to have one of the first printings and want to sell it, I might be willing to pay the going price, just to finally, finally get over my bitterness.

I have a copy of the 1980 version of Deities & Demigods. I believe it is from the first print run, given that it contains the Cthulhu and Melnibonean material but does not mention Chaosium in the credits. It is not for sale.

For the first 1980 printing, TSR obtained permission from Michael Moorcock for inclusion of Melnibonéan material (from his Elric series of books), and from Arkham House, which claimed to hold the copyrights on a number of works by H. P. Lovecraft, for inclusion of characters from the Cthulhu Mythos. However, Arkham House had already licensed the Cthulhu property to the game company Chaosium. Furthermore, Chaosium had also licensed the Melnibonéan copyright from Moorcock. When Chaosium threatened legal action, the first printing was halted and the two companies agreed on a compromise: TSR could continue to use the material but must provide a credit to Chaosium to do so. TSR added the credit for the second printing of the book.

The Cthulhu and Melnibonéan sections were removed from the 1981 edition, making it a 128-page hardcover (which resulted in the original edition having a high collector's value). TSR felt its material should not contain such an overt reference to one of its competitors and removed the two pantheons altogether, thus negating the need for the credit. For this reason, the first and second printings have generally been in greater demand by D&D fans and collectors. The credit to Chaosium and incorrect page and pantheon counts were still included in some of the subsequent printings.

[TheMix]

Made me check my copy. Apparently 2nd printing. It is from 1980, but does include a special thank you to Chaosium.

[Zarathud]

A close friend in high school had a hallway closet self of D&D books including Star Frontiers stuff and FOUR first printings of Deities & Demigods. When I discovered it in 1988 and freaked out on out him holding out knowing I still played, he told me it was his dad’s severance from TSR and they weren’t supposed to talk about it. I now realize his dad was let go in the bloodbath over Gary’s control struggle, so he looted stuff on the way out. Apparently that was pretty common.

I did get a photocopy of the missing pages from my later printing, back when that was a big deal. We never got caught sneaking his copy to the photocopy store and back.

[GreenGoo]

Made me check my copy. Apparently 2nd printing. It is from 1980, but does include a special thank you to Chaosium.

This one should contain the extra pantheons too, although the 1981 copy has the special thank you *without* the extra pantheons, I think.

[Holman]

edit: you made me go look. The pages are surprisingly yellowed and a book that didn't see that much use (How often to you really need to reference dieties) has had a surprising amount of wear on the cover.

TSR and other game companies were still printing on cheap acidic paper in the 1980s, hence the yellowing.

As for the cover, I remember carrying my Player's Handbook to school every day in junior high, 1981-84. (You can imagine the popularity!) Its cover got very banged up, and I eventually used grocery bags to make protective covers for my other books. This kept them much cleaner.

[Max Peck]

My original set of 4 AD&D books from 1980 (DM's Guide, Player's Handbook, Monster Manual and Deities and Demigod) are all looking pretty ratty, even though they've just been sitting in boxes or on shelves for the better part of the last 4 decades.

[TheMix]

Made me check my copy. Apparently 2nd printing. It is from 1980, but does include a special thank you to Chaosium.

This one should contain the extra pantheons too, although the 1981 copy has the special thank you *without* the extra pantheons, I think.

Yes. That part I knew. I just didn't know if I had a version without or with the special thank you.

[LordMortis]

My original set of 4 AD&D books from 1980 (DM's Guide, Player's Handbook, Monster Manual and Deities and Demigod) are all looking pretty ratty, even though they've just been sitting in boxes or on shelves for the better part of the last 4 decades.

The other three saw a lot of love and barely hold up. Fiend Folio and Deities and Demigods was were rarely used. I never did get around to picking up Unearthed Arcana. That is about the time I started moving away from RPGs.

[Kraken]

Made me check my copy. Apparently 2nd printing. It is from 1980, but does include a special thank you to Chaosium.

+1. I gather it's worth fuck-all.

[Blackhawk]

It's weird. I just prepped to get rid of computer game stuff going back to the 3.5 floppies but when it comes to the entire room full of not computer gaming I have in my basement, I won't even think about getting paring it down. The RPG stuff I own, I haven' touched since the mid 80s but I don't see me parting with it. I'll be sending bookshelves full of novels off to charity/little libraries before I parting with my games even becomes a spark. The sooner could happen this year. That later, maybe before I move, if I ever do. (I've come to hate my neighborhood and I don't see it recovering.) But probably not.

edit: you made me go look. The pages are surprisingly yellowed and a book that didn't see that much use (How often to you really need to reference dieties) has had a surprising amount of wear on the cover.

That's in surprisingly good condition. This was a book that did work. It sat on tables with drinks, it was handled with Dorito fingers, it was passed back and forth, it was photocopied, it was stuffed in book bags and bounced around. The yellowing is due to the natural acids in the paper, plus the pollutants in the air, and likely in whatever it was stored in (if it was.) The cover has some scuffs, but again - this was a book that was normally abused quite a bit.

I don't have that one, although I do have a complete set of the earlier pamphlet version. It's not a super early printing (it's a 1977 sixth printing, the first to use 'treant' and 'halfling' instead of 'ent' and 'hobbit - again, due to copyright threats), but likely still from the era when Gygax was hand-assembling the copies in his basement, and when "TSR" was still "Tactical Studies Rules." I also have a copy Gods, Dem-Gods, and Heroes, a 1976 supplement. It also has content from Howard (Conan) and Moorcock (Elric) in it, although it isn't worth as much as the later versions.

If I could find the right person, I might be able to get $100 for the whole set, maybe a little more given that I have the dice, but that's a stretch, and they were a gift. I'm not going to sell a gift.

[GreenGoo]

Made me check my copy. Apparently 2nd printing. It is from 1980, but does include a special thank you to Chaosium.

+1. I gather it's worth fuck-all.

No, it's worth more than later copies, but not by as much. I'll offer to buy yours too, in case you want to sell it. I don't really care about first or second printing, I care about the fact that I once owned a version with the missing pantheons, and now I don't.

[Daehawk]

I have a hardback with dust cover first printing of Children of Dune from 1976. Is it worth anything ya think?

EDIT: Children of DUNE not Children of Dude.

[Isgrimnur]

[Blackhawk]

I need to get around to seeing that some day.

[Jaymann]

I need to get around to seeing that some day.

First time I saw it I was not especially impressed. For me it was an acquired taste from repeated viewings with my son.

[em2nought]

All that fantasy crap came along, and shrank the available pool of people to play wargames with during lunch.

[Holman]

Speaking of acidic paper:

I'm a librarian, and our rare books collection has extensive holdings going back to the 16th century.

Cheaper paper production using more acidic processes came online in the mid-19th century and was pretty standard for about 125 years. A book well-printed in 1900 is decayed today in ways that a book well-printed in 1700 still isn't. (Obviously there are exceptions, as very cheap publications from centuries ago were printed on recycled and stretched rags.) Prestige publishers only began to abandon acidic paper in the 1970s.

Today I was handling a volume of Conrad Gessner's Historia Animalium, printed in the 1560s. Although the covers were re-bound about a century ago, the actual pages are as clear as something printed this century. The only damage is from fingerprints and a few insect trails. Under decent environmental conditions, a closed book from the pre-acid period preserves itself pretty well.

(By the way, it's worth your time to do an image search for "Conrad Gessner Historia Animalium.")

[Daehawk]

The Dude abides. Dude Atreides.

EDIT: perfect timing....this dude cracks me up with his southern stuff reviews. Some of you wont get this stuff at all.

[disarm]

I'm a librarian, and our rare books collection has extensive holdings going back to the 16th century.

Today I was handling a volume of Conrad Gessner's Historia Animalium, printed in the 1560s. Although the covers were re-bound about a century ago, the actual pages are as clear as something printed this century. The only damage is from fingerprints and a few insect trails. Under decent environmental conditions, a closed book from the pre-acid period preserves itself pretty well.

I took some history of science and medicine classes when I was in college at Indiana University. We made a couple visits to the Lilly Library of Rare Books and I had the opportunity to page through some really amazing books, the oldest of which was De Humani Corporis Fabrica by Andreas Vesalius. Originally published in 1543, it was consider the most extensive medical text of the time with highly detailed woodcut-printed illustrations of human anatomy. The copy I paged through was in amazingly good shape because Vesalius insisted that it be printed on the highest quality paper available, and it was bound in stamped pig skin...really amazing that a book that is almost 500 years old is better preserved than something from 50 years ago.

Other books that I was able to experience...

De Motu Cordis, William Harvey, 1648
The Principia, Isaac Newton, 1687

The Lilly Library edition of De Motu Cordis, in which Harvey first describes the circular flow of blood in the body, was one of his personal copies with Harvey's handwritten notes in the margins... pretty cool.

[The Meal]

Other books that I was able to experience...

The Principia, Isaac Newton, 1687

[disarm]

Other books that I was able to experience...

The Principia, Isaac Newton, 1687

Yeah, holding a copy of that book in my hands and turning through the pages was pretty surreal, even if I couldn't understand a single word because it was written in Latin.

[Blackhawk]

Cheaper paper production using more acidic processes came online in the mid-19th century and was pretty standard for about 125 years. A book well-printed in 1900 is decayed today in ways that a book well-printed in 1700 still isn't. (Obviously there are exceptions, as very cheap publications from centuries ago were printed on recycled and stretched rags.) Prestige publishers only began to abandon acidic paper in the 1970s.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I usually am), but wasn't the purpose there to be able to mass-market cheap, quickly written books to an increasingly literate population, with the expectation that they'd read them once and then throw them away? A classic example would be the one-cent, poorly written penny dreadfuls (they cost a penny, and they were dreadful.) The process continued into the early 20th century with pulp fiction magazines, then with comic books (which is why there are so few early copies surviving - they were designed to last for a period of months, not years), and then later became the trade paperback novels that turn yellow after a few years.

I took some history of science and medicine classes when I was in college at Indiana University. We made a couple visits to the Lilly Library of Rare Books and I had the opportunity to page through some really amazing books, the oldest of which was De Humani Corporis Fabrica by Andreas Vesalius.

I've visited there as well. I don't remember much of what I saw (or handled, if anything), but I do remember their original Gutenberg. I should go back sometime.

[Kraken]

Cheaper paper production using more acidic processes came online in the mid-19th century and was pretty standard for about 125 years. A book well-printed in 1900 is decayed today in ways that a book well-printed in 1700 still isn't. (Obviously there are exceptions, as very cheap publications from centuries ago were printed on recycled and stretched rags.) Prestige publishers only began to abandon acidic paper in the 1970s.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I usually am), but wasn't the purpose there to be able to mass-market cheap, quickly written books to an increasingly literate population, with the expectation that they'd read them once and then throw them away? A classic example would be the one-cent, poorly written penny dreadfuls (they cost a penny, and they were dreadful.) The process continued into the early 20th century with pulp fiction magazines, then with comic books (which is why there are so few early copies surviving - they were designed to last for a period of months, not years), and then later became the trade paperback novels that turn yellow after a few years.

Mass market paperbacks (pocket books) were/are disposable by design. When I was a bookseller, publishers deliberately overprinted so that they could fill displays (called dumps) and incentivized bookstores to put them in prominent locations. After a few months, when sales petered out, publishers didn't want them back. We stripped off the front covers and returned those for credit. The books themselves were supposed to be destroyed. We routinely bent the rule and let employees have their pick before sending the books to the dumpster. I used to send my dad a large box of stripped books every month, and he donated them to the veterans' association when he was done with them. When I lived in a house with a fireplace I'd bring them home to use as kindling. I used to do "a reading at random," opening a book and theatrically reading a paragraph before tossing it on the fire. Even after employees took all they wanted, hundreds of books went into the dumpster every month. Publishers would not allow donating them to charities.

Trade paperbacks ("oversized paperbacks") are a different category. Those were returned intact and resold to discounters. They aren't designed to last the ages, but their paper is better than the near-newsprint quality used in mass market paperbacks.

I haven't worked in the industry since 1996, but AFAIK that model hasn't changed.

[dbt1949]

I got out and about this afternoon with my d-i-l. I was getting in the car and missed the seat but was just hanging there (I didn't fall all the way down) my daughter in law (all 4'9" of her) pushed all 300 lbs of me back in the car and into my seat. I couldn't believe that. She is now my hero.

[Blackhawk]

Cheaper paper production using more acidic processes came online in the mid-19th century and was pretty standard for about 125 years. A book well-printed in 1900 is decayed today in ways that a book well-printed in 1700 still isn't. (Obviously there are exceptions, as very cheap publications from centuries ago were printed on recycled and stretched rags.) Prestige publishers only began to abandon acidic paper in the 1970s.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I usually am), but wasn't the purpose there to be able to mass-market cheap, quickly written books to an increasingly literate population, with the expectation that they'd read them once and then throw them away? A classic example would be the one-cent, poorly written penny dreadfuls (they cost a penny, and they were dreadful.) The process continued into the early 20th century with pulp fiction magazines, then with comic books (which is why there are so few early copies surviving - they were designed to last for a period of months, not years), and then later became the trade paperback novels that turn yellow after a few years.

Mass market paperbacks (pocket books) were/are disposable by design. When I was a bookseller, publishers deliberately overprinted so that they could fill displays (called dumps) and incentivized bookstores to put them in prominent locations. After a few months, when sales petered out, publishers didn't want them back. We stripped off the front covers and returned those for credit. The books themselves were supposed to be destroyed. We routinely bent the rule and let employees have their pick before sending the books to the dumpster. I used to send my dad a large box of stripped books every month, and he donated them to the veterans' association when he was done with them. When I lived in a house with a fireplace I'd bring them home to use as kindling. I used to do "a reading at random," opening a book and theatrically reading a paragraph before tossing it on the fire. Even after employees took all they wanted, hundreds of books went into the dumpster every month. Publishers would not allow donating them to charities.

Trade paperbacks ("oversized paperbacks") are a different category. Those were returned intact and resold to discounters. They aren't designed to last the ages, but their paper is better than the near-newsprint quality used in mass market paperbacks.

I haven't worked in the industry since 1996, but AFAIK that model hasn't changed.

Ah, well, then. My original bit stands - it's just the term (mass market vs trade) that I had wrong.

[Kraken]

Cheaper paper production using more acidic processes came online in the mid-19th century and was pretty standard for about 125 years. A book well-printed in 1900 is decayed today in ways that a book well-printed in 1700 still isn't. (Obviously there are exceptions, as very cheap publications from centuries ago were printed on recycled and stretched rags.) Prestige publishers only began to abandon acidic paper in the 1970s.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I usually am), but wasn't the purpose there to be able to mass-market cheap, quickly written books to an increasingly literate population, with the expectation that they'd read them once and then throw them away? A classic example would be the one-cent, poorly written penny dreadfuls (they cost a penny, and they were dreadful.) The process continued into the early 20th century with pulp fiction magazines, then with comic books (which is why there are so few early copies surviving - they were designed to last for a period of months, not years), and then later became the trade paperback novels that turn yellow after a few years.

Mass market paperbacks (pocket books) were/are disposable by design. When I was a bookseller, publishers deliberately overprinted so that they could fill displays (called dumps) and incentivized bookstores to put them in prominent locations. After a few months, when sales petered out, publishers didn't want them back. We stripped off the front covers and returned those for credit. The books themselves were supposed to be destroyed. We routinely bent the rule and let employees have their pick before sending the books to the dumpster. I used to send my dad a large box of stripped books every month, and he donated them to the veterans' association when he was done with them. When I lived in a house with a fireplace I'd bring them home to use as kindling. I used to do "a reading at random," opening a book and theatrically reading a paragraph before tossing it on the fire. Even after employees took all they wanted, hundreds of books went into the dumpster every month. Publishers would not allow donating them to charities.

Trade paperbacks ("oversized paperbacks") are a different category. Those were returned intact and resold to discounters. They aren't designed to last the ages, but their paper is better than the near-newsprint quality used in mass market paperbacks.

I haven't worked in the industry since 1996, but AFAIK that model hasn't changed.

Ah, well, then. My original bit stands - it's just the term (mass market vs trade) that I had wrong.

I post not to contradict you, but to amplify and empower you. Mass market paperbacks are made to throw away. Achieving "backlist" status keeps some of them on shelves for years, but even those copies are regularly replaced if for no other reason than to update the printed price.

[LordMortis]

Mass market paperbacks (pocket books) were/are disposable by design. When I was a bookseller, publishers deliberately overprinted so that they could fill displays (called dumps) and incentivized bookstores to put them in prominent locations. After a few months, when sales petered out, publishers didn't want them back. We stripped off the front covers and returned those for credit. The books themselves were supposed to be destroyed.

I have a distinct memory of some of my very old novels picked up in the 70s when I was discovering who I was and loving The Hobbit advising me that if the cover was not in tact then the novel I'm purchasing is stolen. Tolkien books, in particular, I remember stating this, being my introduction to the fantasy novel.

I also remember Dianetics having 100s of copies prominently displayed at every store boasting on its cover how millions of copies had sold and the alleging that they were just being circulated again and again. I don't remember who allegations were coming from though.

[Kraken]

Mass market paperbacks (pocket books) were/are disposable by design. When I was a bookseller, publishers deliberately overprinted so that they could fill displays (called dumps) and incentivized bookstores to put them in prominent locations. After a few months, when sales petered out, publishers didn't want them back. We stripped off the front covers and returned those for credit. The books themselves were supposed to be destroyed.

I have a distinct memory of some of my very old novels picked up in the 70s when I was discovering who I was and loving The Hobbit advising me that if the cover was not in tact then the novel I'm purchasing is stolen. Tolkien books, in particular, I remember stating this, being my introduction to the fantasy novel.

I also remember Dianetics having 100s of copies prominently displayed at every store boasting on its cover how millions of copies had sold and the alleging that they were just being circulated again and again. I don't remember who allegations were coming from though.

Scientologists used to routinely swarm bookstores to snap up Dianetics and propel it onto bestseller lists, then return them after a few weeks. Sales figures weren't retroactively adjusted for returns. Eventually my company just banned Dianetics from their weekly lists.

[hitbyambulance]

my brother got really into Gamma World, and ended up with copies of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th editions (don't see him ever parting with those)

[Holman]

I have a distinct memory of some of my very old novels picked up in the 70s when I was discovering who I was and loving The Hobbit advising me that if the cover was not in tact then the novel I'm purchasing is stolen. Tolkien books, in particular, I remember stating this, being my introduction to the fantasy novel.

The Ballantine paperback editions of Tolkien also had a note in JRRT's own voice complaining about unauthorized editions. Ballantine acquired to rights to sell Tolkien in the US only after a few years in which Ace exploited a loophole to produce an unauthorized US edition.

Interestingly, it was the Ace editions that first won the hearts of the hippies who made Tolkien a phenomenon.

[Holman]

I'm fond of my library's first-printing copy of Darwin's Origin of Species, which was acquired immediately upon publication. It has marginal notes from a biologist who was reading it just as it entered the scientific world.

[Daehawk]

Well that big old dead Oak tree in my front yard finally broke and fell. Luckily it did just what I thought it would...the entire canopy limbs rotted, got soaked with water, and fell straight down. There was no falling 'over' It just broke and fell with gravity THUMP.

I was sitting here at my PC when I noticed movement and saw it fall. No sound or feeling. And it fell in the brush like I hoped it would. None in my yard and none in the road.

All and all I couldn't ask for better. Tonight is supposed to be big storms with big wind. Glad it decided to give it up right before that. I went out and checked it and the wood is soft enough to pull apart. Totally rotten.

Now I got one giant tree trunk stump left there.