[Chaosravenz WW] Eternal Night... all Hail the Fallen

Schroeder · Post by **Schroeder** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:27 pm

By the way...

Quick and dirty analysis time here. The good guys are rapidly losing (have lost) control of this game. Somewhere along the line one of the Fallen did an outstanding job of making some of the linked (or otherwise special) believe that he was one of them.

That, combined with the fact that the innocents are having zero luck at developing trust, and you end up with what you have here...

A blind celestial beatdown with the mob randomly pounding on the first random target it can find.

Anyways...here's hoping you guys learn something my demise.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:33 pm

I'd learn more if you'd respond to my PM. Always helps to avoid suspicion by responding to people.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:33 pm

hopefully we learn that you are fallen and we only have to find one more.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:18 pm

Whoops, I just realized I never actually bolded Schroeder when voting for him.

So... Schroeder.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:56 pm

Majority Reached.

Orinoco - Schroeder
Remus West - Schroeder
Schroeder- Kelric
Kelric - Schroeder
Mr Bubbles - Schroeder
Smutly

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:06 pm

The carried him to edge of the clouds and tore his wings apart... they declared him lost.

They declared him fallen.

The Host had opened their ears and held discussions, argued back and forth, and made their decision.

They had been wrong before.

As they were now.

Schroeder had innocent blood...

...now on the Hosts hands.

PMs please

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:32 pm

Smutly wandered out into the darkness...

...surely light should have returned by now?

He headed down to the gathering place cautiously, knowing full well that the darkness had consumed his brothers night after night.

At the fountain he found Orinoco... floating in the stained pool, his chest torn open. He stumbled back startled, and nearly tripped over the rapidly dissipating corpse of Mr Bubbles...

A low chuckle came from behind him.

The shadows came together as Kelric sloughed off his feathers for the final time... Leathery clawed wings unfurled. "Ahhhh that feels EXCELLENT" exclaimed Kelric as he stretched the patagium.

Smutly backed away in horror, realization dawning on him that dawn would never again be real.

Right onto Remus Wests spear.

The Fallen had declared their rebellion in Darkness, and now they would rule in Eternal Darkness.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:33 pm

Victory!

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:34 pm

Nice work, gentlemen. Shame I couldn't have joined you for longer. DAMN YOU RALPH-WIGGUM!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:42 pm

Woot!!! Sorry Crux, but it worked.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:03 pm

To those innocents we slaughtered, may your souls rest in eternal torment. You almost had us a few times, but a timely sacrifice by Nox and Crux's willingness to let us lynch him while fighting to get me lynched (both of us were willing to die for the cause, I'd just have preferred it to be him) certainly helped save us. Remus worked a contact with the Linked who decided to trust him relatively early, I got st_dysan on our side a few rounds back and then the Linked decided to trust me these last two rounds or so as well. Meanwhile, I'm trying to keep dysan and the Linked from lynching Remus as everybody was suspicious of him.

I was the Alpha Fallen. I chose Nox, Remus and Crux precisely because they were obvious choices and I felt like we could all use that as a defense early on to keep us alive from bandwagoning. That, in addition to the fact that all of us have played in many of these games, was my basic strategy. Veteran experience, knowing how to win, clutch performances...

st_dysan · Post by **st_dysan** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:18 pm

excellent game guys...I thought my logic about Kelric was dead on...oh well...Remus was a toss up for me but I thought after a few pms he was not fallen....wrong again...excellently played Kelric...well let's do another one...

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:43 pm

st_dysan wrote:excellent game guys...I thought my logic about Kelric was dead on...oh well...Remus was a toss up for me but I thought after a few pms he was not fallen....wrong again...excellently played Kelric...well let's do another one...

I was sincerely trying to get you lynched earlier in the game, but I was also trying to keep my public voting somewhat distanced from the other Fallen at that point. It worked out for the best.

Sorry.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:50 pm

I think I will forgo the time limit the next time I do one of these...

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:54 pm

Chaosraven wrote:I think I will forgo the time limit the next time I do one of these...

The time limit is a good thing but it is a tool for the [werewolves] to use. There needs to be expanded roles and and knowledge by the villagers of what is happening. What the time limit should be and how it should work is something I'm not sure of for an Internet based game.

Edit: and the wolf game variants I thought wout be interesting looks play with four wolves starting at 22 players (up to 24) which seems to be too big to generate more interest here.

This variant set actually has four potentially different exclusive victory conditions. Both villagers and Wolves can potentially get backstabbed by their own. The game opens up quite with communication and innuendo this way. The two other potenial victory conditions are that of 1) the Sorcerer who seeks balance in the game and desires to keep the amount of wolves and humans equal (while not dying) and wins if they do so and the lovers who win or lose together attempting to be the only two players left at the end if they are of different races.

The timing to play another game of that many players would be over several weeks and in games of that size people seem to get impatient quickly.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:02 pm

Damnit.. I knew Remus was fallen but it was too late. Losing the seer so early killed us.

edit: But good game guys. I know I should have suspected Remus much much earlier. The choice of people to kill was too efficient for it to be anything but an inside job. And a few people I messaged unfortunately didn't get back to me.. I was on the verge of trying to save Schroeder, but he never got back to me. Very well done.
I was on the verge of trying to get Orinco and Kelric to vote out Remus. But I trusted too much in schroeder as a pick and he kind of went belly up without making his case.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:10 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:Damnit.. I knew Remus was fallen but it was too late. Losing the seer so early killed us.

edit: But good game guys. I know I should have suspected Remus much much earlier. The choice of people to kill was too efficient for it to be anything but an inside job. And a few people I messaged unfortunately didn't get back to me.. I was on the verge of trying to save Schroeder, but he never got back to me. Very well done.
I was on the verge of trying to get Orinco and Kelric to vote out Remus. But I trusted too much in schroeder as a pick and he kind of went belly up without making his case.

I was willing to sacrifice Remus if you and dysan both pushed hard for him a few rounds back. But dysan got a bandwagon against him and I figured my best bet at looking innocent was trying to keep him alive.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:11 pm

noxiousdog wrote:Nice work, gentlemen. Shame I couldn't have joined you for longer. DAMN YOU RALPH-WIGGUM!

Sheesh. Could I have made it anymore obvious that I was the Avenger? I figured at least one of you fallen would get it and not kill me.

But it's too bad that when you guys did attack me that noxiousdog was the one to die (it was random, right?). We already knew noxiousdog was a Fallen, so killing another would have made things much easier.

I suspected both Remus and Crux when they were PMing me; thus, I tried not to give too much away to either of them.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:13 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:Nice work, gentlemen. Shame I couldn't have joined you for longer. DAMN YOU RALPH-WIGGUM!
Sheesh. Could I have made it anymore obvious that I was the Avenger? I figured at least one of you fallen would get it and not kill me.

But it's too bad that when you guys did attack me that noxiousdog was the one to die (it was random, right?). We already knew noxiousdog was a Fallen, so killing another would have made things much easier.

I suspected both Remus and Crux when they were PMing me; thus, I tried not to give too much away to either of them.

We were almost positive you were the Avenger. We were actually not going to kill you that round and push for you to get lynched the next round but for some reason Noxious at the last minute told Chaos to kill you, despite my having voted for someone else (who it was I forget now).

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:17 pm

Well, it worked out for you since noxiousdog was the one that died in picking me. I was going to reveal myself the next day and have noxiousdog killed, as I had just recieved confirmation that noxious was a fallen right after that day's lynching had taken place.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:19 pm

One of Ceekay's last messages was that dysan and Kelric were fallen. He had also picked Crux as one.. Looks like the main downfall was letting Remus in. If we had kept him out we could have had a much better chance at winning. Kelric voting to save that last one worked wonders. Certainly deflected.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:19 pm

Kelric wrote:
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:Nice work, gentlemen. Shame I couldn't have joined you for longer. DAMN YOU RALPH-WIGGUM!
Sheesh. Could I have made it anymore obvious that I was the Avenger? I figured at least one of you fallen would get it and not kill me.

But it's too bad that when you guys did attack me that noxiousdog was the one to die (it was random, right?). We already knew noxiousdog was a Fallen, so killing another would have made things much easier.

I suspected both Remus and Crux when they were PMing me; thus, I tried not to give too much away to either of them.
We were almost positive you were the Avenger. We were actually not going to kill you that round and push for you to get lynched the next round but for some reason Noxious at the last minute told Chaos to kill you, despite my having voted for someone else (who it was I forget now).

It was ArmyOfOne as he had told me he was the seeker.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:20 pm

Remus West wrote:
Kelric wrote:
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:Nice work, gentlemen. Shame I couldn't have joined you for longer. DAMN YOU RALPH-WIGGUM!
Sheesh. Could I have made it anymore obvious that I was the Avenger? I figured at least one of you fallen would get it and not kill me.

But it's too bad that when you guys did attack me that noxiousdog was the one to die (it was random, right?). We already knew noxiousdog was a Fallen, so killing another would have made things much easier.

I suspected both Remus and Crux when they were PMing me; thus, I tried not to give too much away to either of them.
We were almost positive you were the Avenger. We were actually not going to kill you that round and push for you to get lynched the next round but for some reason Noxious at the last minute told Chaos to kill you, despite my having voted for someone else (who it was I forget now).
It was ArmyOfOne as he had told me he was the seeker.

That ultimately was the killing blow.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:20 pm

Kelric:
It was armyofone.

Who, by the way, went 3 for 3 picks in finding bad guys...

It was hard to watch... the Fallen killed the Archangel, the Avenger, the Seeker one right after another.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:22 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Kelric:
It was armyofone.

Who, by the way, went 3 for 3 picks in finding bad guys...

It was hard to watch... the Fallen killed the Archangel, the Avenger, the Seeker one right after another.

wow that was actually really bad luck as he couldn't find a larger innocent base to work with. Of course if he had ID'd a linked he would have been in much better shape.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:26 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:One of Ceekay's last messages was that dysan and Kelric were fallen. He had also picked Crux as one.. Looks like the main downfall was letting Remus in. If we had kept him out we could have had a much better chance at winning. Kelric voting to save that last one worked wonders. Certainly deflected.

I know. Remus had shuttled information to us from you guys as soon as he started getting it.

Nox, Crux and Remus did a lot of early PM work to give us good ideas on the three specials. I laid back and waited for the middle-to-end-game to really get into the PM stuff. It worked out.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:41 pm

I should have went my instinct of lynching previous bad guys.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:52 pm

Yeah... on the "so obvious it CAN'T be true"...

I was laughing my ass off when I pulled Kelric as the First.

Then I was rolling when he sent his choice of Crux, Nox, and Remus

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:08 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Yeah... on the "so obvious it CAN'T be true"...

I was laughing my ass off when I pulled Kelric as the First.

Then I was rolling when he sent his choice of Crux, Nox, and Remus

In all fairness I should have been considered an under the radar bad guy as I had not been one until then. The office space game started after this one.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:12 pm

Nah, Asharak, Orinoco and I voted you Honorary Werewolf in our game...

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:20 pm

amusing how folks always suspect the open ones. Here i am just working in the open....but the guys sending back alley PMs...THEY MUST BE ON THE UP AND UP!!

Lemmings!! the lot of you!!

the time limit, imo, gives the Fallen a massive advantage. they can create a miniature consensus without actually having a majority.

the host cannot react as quickly to create a consensus.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:59 pm

True enough.

I wanted to try one based on the other game where it took us days to reach a single vote.

I did extend the limit quite a bit a few times in this one to allow more participation.

Crux · Post by **Crux** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:06 pm

You know, I was really surprised when I got picked by Ceekay. I'd played the exact same style as in every other game (where I've been an innocent) and I never once told a lie except to claim I was innocent. Without being outed by the Seer, there was no reliable criteria to name me Fallen by.

I have to say I was really happy with the way it played out though. I was able to withdraw my vote for Orinoco and make him look suspicious, and I was also able to push hard for both Remus and Kelric to make them look innocent. Luck was certainly with us.

Really the game came down to three crucial errors.
1) pr0ner telling people he was the Archangel
2) ArmyofOne telling people he was the Seeker
3) The Linked trusting someone who hadn't been cleared by the Seeker

People with special roles should NEVER trust anyone who hasn't been cleared by the Seeker. Plain and simple. The instant you do, it is game over.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:27 pm

Very true.. We had been outed and I felt my hand forced. I was content to playing a quiet game and quietly controlling things until the seer got to us. of course that changed when it was clear Army was the seer and got offed. There was a lot of luck involved with a few crucial missteps. But was very fun overall.. I was happy.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:55 pm

I think the killing of Ralph also helped us quite a bit. By getting to him before he used his ability we only lost one of us to him where we could have lost two and maybe even more important we did not allow the innocents to have a publically proclaimed champion. Had he used his ability there would have been no doubting he was not fallen at which point everyone can send him their roles and get hooked up. Then even if he dies the pool of folks to choose from is small when the rest of the innocents vote for lynchings. For that reason alone his ability, any ability that requires public use, breaks the game. If he starts the first day by proclaiming himself and killing someone the odds of him hitting the seer are tiny but then he gets every innocent hooked up. Were I an innocent I would have called for him to kill me, that way you are sure not to lose the seeker and still get the archangel, linked and seer together in one move.

Orinoco · Post by **Orinoco** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:00 pm

I was totally in the dark in that one, but kudos to Remus for manipulating me perfectly dispite the fact that I didn't trust him

CeeKay · Post by **CeeKay** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:53 pm

One of my little ideas that I never really got along to developing:

From: CeeKay
To: st_dysan
Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:03 am
Subject: Next Fallen
I think the block that just voted Crux out has a fallen in it's midst, and I think it's Remus. I've gotten other PM's from the others I contacted quoting messages where he tried to frame me as a Fallen, so I think his time is next. I am hoping that all of you that I am sending this too will see that he is next.

I hit Dysan but apparently missed the linked

I told Remus it was a ploy, but set things up rather poorly. I think I sent out a couple of dozen PM's right before I died. Kelric was next on the list.

Crux · Post by **Crux** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:00 pm

CeeKay wrote:One of my little ideas that I never really got along to developing:

From: CeeKay
To: st_dysan
Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:03 am
Subject: Next Fallen
I think the block that just voted Crux out has a fallen in it's midst, and I think it's Remus. I've gotten other PM's from the others I contacted quoting messages where he tried to frame me as a Fallen, so I think his time is next. I am hoping that all of you that I am sending this too will see that he is next.
I hit Dysan but apparently missed the linked I told Remus it was a ploy, but set things up rather poorly. I think I sent out a couple of dozen PM's right before I died. Kelric was next on the list.

The Fallen definitely could have played a cleaner game. I felt a lot like once ND died, our cohesion went out the window. Remus was pming everyone in sight but didn't communicate what he was doing really to Kelric and I. I honestly have no idea what Kelric was doing other than lying low.

In the end we got a lot of luck and did just enough right. It was a close call though.

CeeKay · Post by **CeeKay** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:02 pm

Crux wrote:You know, I was really surprised when I got picked by Ceekay. I'd played the exact same style as in every other game (where I've been an innocent) and I never once told a lie except to claim I was innocent. Without being outed by the Seer, there was no reliable criteria to name me Fallen by.

You should be used to me killing you in games by now. I almost PM'd chaosraven and asked him for your death to be by exploding barrel

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:11 pm

Crux wrote:
CeeKay wrote:One of my little ideas that I never really got along to developing:

From: CeeKay
To: st_dysan
Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:03 am
Subject: Next Fallen
I think the block that just voted Crux out has a fallen in it's midst, and I think it's Remus. I've gotten other PM's from the others I contacted quoting messages where he tried to frame me as a Fallen, so I think his time is next. I am hoping that all of you that I am sending this too will see that he is next.
I hit Dysan but apparently missed the linked I told Remus it was a ploy, but set things up rather poorly. I think I sent out a couple of dozen PM's right before I died. Kelric was next on the list.
The Fallen definitely could have played a cleaner game. I felt a lot like once ND died, our cohesion went out the window. Remus was pming everyone in sight but didn't communicate what he was doing really to Kelric and I. I honestly have no idea what Kelric was doing other than lying low.

In the end we got a lot of luck and did just enough right. It was a close call though.

I did feel like Remus was sloppy the entire game with those PMs. Everyone I did wind up talking to were all suspicious of him because of them. While you were still alive Crux, I pretty much communicated with nobody. There wasn't anything for me to tell you that I didn't. But of course you weren't sending me PMs the entire time detailing your activities either.

But... we won.