Ten endangered gaming genres

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:20 pm

Saw this and thought I'd share. I've cut and pasted the 10 into this post; the details are provided in the article. Feel free to start lamenting.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archi ... enres.html

The beat 'em up
The flight shooter
The real-time strategy
The F1 sim
The god game
The arena-based vehicle combat game
The graphical adventure
The 2D shooter
The puzzle game
The cute character-based adventure

Eel Snave · Post by **Eel Snave** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:07 pm

The graphical adventure

Thank God.

The cute character-based adventure

There's still a lot of those, I think.

The 2D shooter

Never was too crazy about those. Why shoot in 2D when you can shoot in 3D? It seems like 2D was more of a necessity than anything else.

SuperHiro · Post by **SuperHiro** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:11 pm

The real-time strategy

Eel Snave · Post by **Eel Snave** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:15 pm

And I hate these kind of mopey articles. Would you really like to return to a world of Combat and River Raid? Maybe some Pong. How does some Pong suit you. I'm in the mood for some Pong.

Honestly, gaming has never been better or healthier. Play some Half-Life 2 and then tell me about what's wrong with gaming.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:29 pm

RTS? No way! Turn based strategy, maybe to yes...unfortunately.

Also, graphic adventures are still pretty strong. Definitely not as strong as they were in the 90's, when Lucasarts was kickin arse, but look at Myst series, Longest Journey, Syberia 1 and 2, Broken Sword (I loved that last one), even Beyond Good and Evil and Tron, though those are more hybrid action/adventure I guess.

Koz · Post by **Koz** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:34 pm

Eel Snave wrote:
The graphical adventure
Thank God.

Why Thank God? What about adventure games don't you like? I'm sad to see this genre slowly dying. Games like the Monkey Island series, Sam and Max, the old LucasArts adventures, the Maniac Mansion style games, are some of my fondest gaming memories. These games had actual stories, great characters and very clever writing.

EDIT: sounded a little more harsh than I intended

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:08 pm

SuperHiro wrote:
The real-time strategy

I dunno either. Here's what the article says:

"In the wake of Total Annihilation, almost every PC title was an RTS. It was as though developers believed they had at last found a 100% guaranteed cash cow. There are still some excellent examples - Rome: Total War, Lord of the Rings: Battle For Middle Earth, etc - but the frantic, thinking-persons' shoot out is a shadow of its former self. The squad-based shooter is the new RTS. I read that in Vogue."

I think Warhammer 40K is one of the best RTS games I've played in years. But are they becoming too specialized for hardcore gamers? I don't know. Does R:TW have the same mass commerical appeal that Command and Conquer did back in 90's?

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:10 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Saw this and thought I'd share. I've cut and pasted the 10 into this post; the details are provided in the article. Feel free to start lamenting.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archi ... enres.html

The beat 'em up
The flight shooter
The real-time strategy
The F1 sim
The god game
The arena-based vehicle combat game
The graphical adventure
The 2D shooter
The puzzle game
The cute character-based adventure

SO..uh.. what's left?

The FPS I guess...

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:29 pm

Aw, come on. Totally left out the cherub who's only powers are limited flight and the ability to posess people game.

TheMissingLink · Post by **TheMissingLink** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:46 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:Aw, come on. Totally left out the cherub who's only powers are limited flight and the ability to posess people game.

Oh wow, I haven't thought about Messiah in FOREVER.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:57 pm

Originally posted by TheMissingLink:
Oh wow, I haven't thought about Messiah in FOREVER.

And that's why you're going to Hell.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:01 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Originally posted by TheMissingLink:
Oh wow, I haven't thought about Messiah in FOREVER.
And that's why you're going to Hell.

You won't even get a free Playstation 2 out of the deal either!

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:03 pm

Well, let's analyze these one by one...

The beat 'em up

The beat'em up has reached the apex, there's nowhere to go from there unless you mix it with another genre. The 2D fighting is pretty much dead. MK series just basically improved on combos and fatalities to keep things interesting. Soul Caliber added weapons, and that's about it. They've already gone 3D with Virtua fighter and Battlearena Toshinden, and all the variants since. Where else can this go?

The flight shooter

Same problem, assuming you mean the "very easy" turn-and-burn type games. If it's so simple, it's not realistic, and it's not realistic people frown upon it.

The real-time strategy

As people have commented, this is also the end of the line for RTS. Smarter AI units, waypoints, patrols, and such have long been introduced (heck, they were introduced with the ORIGINAL Dark Reign and even earlier). Everything since just tacks on small wrinkles like tech levels, heroes, terrains, day/night cycles, more sides, and so on.

The F1 sim

With Papyrus gone, it certain looks bad, but this should be a temporary downfall. The problem with simulations is there are limits to how close can you get to reality without making it impossible to handle, and hardware limits on how good the graphics can be. We've pretty much pushed those to the edge for now. Next revolution will come a few years down the road.

The god game

Oh, and Civilization / RoN series aren't God Games? B&W is not a God Game? Disagree completely.

The arena-based vehicle combat game

This one is "maybe". Vehicles and arenas can certain use some imporvement, but wouldn't the Battlefront games count in this regard? Or must everybody be in a vehicle to count?

The graphical adventure

Again, the grpahical adventure has reached the pinnacle and there's not much further to go. Myst was the last major advance in GA, with hi res pics and an intriguing story. Not much else since has followed.

The 2D shooter

The 2D shooter again falls into the nostalgia section. I am guessing this means games like Defender, R-Type, and that sort of game? That I would... disagree. You can actually do a VERY impressive "2D' shooter even though it looks totally 3D. Everybody remember Outrun? That's all 2D sprites. So is that game 3D or 2D? Same with Afterburner. All sprites. 2D or 3D?

The puzzle game

Doubt it's going away, but it's mixed with Adventure and RPG nowadays.

The cute character-based adventure

Hunh?

D.A.Lewis · Post by **D.A.Lewis** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:31 pm

Re: Graphic Adventures

if by endangered he means about to be extinct then he is wrong.
There are more GA being released then RPGs. Within the past few weeks there has been Missing, Leisure Suit Larry, Moment of Silence and I'm sure others. Marketing wonks refere to GA titles as evergreen products because they could stay on the shelf for years and they will still be snatched up. I myself recently purchased Broken Arrow 2. And plan on buying the Moment of Silence which looks very interesting to me.

Howevever
If my endangered he means lack of innovation and a basic staleness in the genre then maybe he has something. But saying a GA lacks innovation is like saying a book lacks innovation. Your typical GA is about story and a glitzy package aint gonna help matters if the story is lacking. GA's may not be at the top of the sales charts, but there are still plenty of gamers that like GA and buy GA. It's just that for some reason the GA haters feel the need to squash this genre out of existence.

Ripstar · Post by **Ripstar** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:58 pm

And where are all the great dinosaur rpg,rts,fps,beatem-up games.
Terrific gaming material here, too bad it is extinct.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:34 pm

The puzzle game

Doubt it's going away, but it's mixed with Adventure and RPG nowadays.

Also the province of shareware. There are plenty of puzzlers out there.

The 2D shooter again falls into the nostalgia section. I am guessing this means games like Defender, R-Type, and that sort of game? That I would... disagree. You can actually do a VERY impressive "2D' shooter even though it looks totally 3D. Everybody remember Outrun? That's all 2D sprites. So is that game 3D or 2D? Same with Afterburner. All sprites. 2D or 3D?

Ditto.

Warblade is one I am enjoying right now (just the shareware portion, though). Galga with some interesting twists (a variety of ship upgrades, some mini games).

Dreamstar 3 is an asteroids alike where you can upgrade your ship. Pretty fun.

Starscape is a hybrid shooter/adventure. I enjoyed it, though it does start to get monotonous by zone 5. You're a lost ship searching for it's missing warp core (or some such) pieces throughout 5 "zones". Each zone has locations you can visit to mine crystals (your "money") and fight the enemy.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:04 am

Peacedog wrote:
The puzzle game

Doubt it's going away, but it's mixed with Adventure and RPG nowadays.
Also the province of shareware. There are plenty of puzzlers out there.

Oh, yes. Popcap made a career out of them.

The 2D shooter again falls into the nostalgia section. I am guessing this means games like Defender, R-Type, and that sort of game? That I would... disagree. You can actually do a VERY impressive "2D' shooter even though it looks totally 3D. Everybody remember Outrun? That's all 2D sprites. So is that game 3D or 2D? Same with Afterburner. All sprites. 2D or 3D?
Ditto.

Warblade is one I am enjoying right now (just the shareware portion, though). Galga with some interesting twists (a variety of ship upgrades, some mini games).

Dreamstar 3 is an asteroids alike where you can upgrade your ship. Pretty fun.

Starscape is a hybrid shooter/adventure. I enjoyed it, though it does start to get monotonous by zone 5. You're a lost ship searching for it's missing warp core (or some such) pieces throughout 5 "zones". Each zone has locations you can visit to mine crystals (your "money") and fight the enemy.

8) 8)

I've put Starscape (and Velocity Nova) into the same category. They're 2D with bits of strategy / role-playing / adventure. In other words, they've cross genres.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:24 am

I guess it boils down to whether or not you believe the gaming market is splitting into two areas - games made for hard core gamers and games made for mass market.

Bookworm (and any other Popcap game) has mass appeal. Can you say the same about Sacred or Soldiers: Heroes of WW2?

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:30 am

Oh, yes. Popcap made a career out of them.

Right. But it's worth noting that outside of popcap and the 10,000 bejewled/etc clones that exist, there are plenty of puzzlers out there. I'll have to dig up the link to the robot factory puzzle game, it was pretty interesting.

I only skimmed the article, so maybe this guys point was some or all of these genres have become ultra-niches, which they pretty much have.

More:

Demonstar is a raiden-like shooter. It was ok, but I kept experiencing graphical glitches so I never really got into it. Worth a download. Mountain King (the makers) have two additional "mission packs" available (they're all 20 bucks though).

They also made Raptor - Call of the Shadows which was pretty fun.

They're also the makers of Galactix. I know someone else here has played that one (I did way back in 94ish, hehehe).

I'll add some URLs to my above post. And I'll have to check out Velocity Nova (oh, dud, you meant EVN).

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:07 am

God games are the only genre on that list whose passing I would lament. But as Smoove said, there will always be a hardcore market for these.

The author's premise seems to be that AAA blockbuster titles are all converging on FPS. Fine. I don't care what the mass market buys.

Eel Snave · Post by **Eel Snave** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:26 pm

And my problem with GA is that they're so esoteric. You must take the jewel from the dragon's ass and give it to the prison guard (NO OTHER JEWEL WILL DO) so that he'll shove it into his own ass, then you must find the Holy Blow Torch of Hurting in order to weld it into his ass, instead of just kicking his ass and taking the key, which I would probably do.

I think the GA genre is dead to all but those who actually want to injure themselves in this way, and that's fine. They can have it. I like a great story and great dialogue, and therefore I choose other games that don't piss me off so much that I can't actually GET to the great dialogue.

Faldarian · Post by **Faldarian** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:31 pm

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be

Eel Snave · Post by **Eel Snave** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:34 pm

Of course, though, I don't mean to just pick on GA. I just think that a lot of these genres had genuine flaws and were absorbed into other genres. Lamenting the good old days doesn't advance gaming, is what I'm trying to get at. There still interesting ideas ahead.

D.A.Lewis · Post by **D.A.Lewis** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:06 pm

GA's have no more flaws than any other gaming genre. But I do think it is a fact that it by far has the most detractors. I agree, the stupid puzzle tricks really detract from the gaming experience. But the Good GAs usually have well thought out puzzles that actually make sense within the game world. The problem is with a game full of puzzles even the good GAs many times have one totally illogical puzzle (the totem pole telephone in Longest Journey).

I still like GAs. And since they are not in favor anymore many can be purchased new for 19.99.

BTW, this morning I was looking through some old issues of Questbuster. A neat little gaming newletter that came out in the 80's. In 1988 when Beyond Zork, one of inforcoms last text adventures came out, it cost 49.95

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 5:52 am

Adventures are my least favorite genre, but I don't wish them ill or anything... I just happen to hate puzzle gameplay.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:22 am

"Beat-em-ups" - is this referring to the 1vs1 fighting games? if they are dying, it's about time... those killed arcade gaming for me back in the 90s, sometime (along with the glut of driving and shooting ones)

Rabid moth · Post by **Rabid moth** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:41 am

IMHO the best thing about GA games was they gave birth to this article

http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/77.html

Octopus Overlords

Ten endangered gaming genres

Ten endangered gaming genres

Re: Ten endangered gaming genres