Runnin' a little hot tonight

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:34 pm

Dunno, I probably shoulda gone with the arctic silver goo instead of the pre-packaged thermal pad. General CPU temp hovers in the mid 40s when idle or web browsing, but during intense MS Word typing sessions, or during Unreal 2 (don't ask, bought it as a budgie to ogle the graphics), temp has gone as high as 59 C.

What worries me is that this only leaves a margin of 11 more degrees before alarm bells ring (apparently 70C is critical temp for an Athlon 64). And it's November. Things are gonna get hotter in the summer.

I don't remember how high the fluctuation for winter/summer was in CPU temp on my old box, but I do remember it had me worried (for nothing, as it turned out -- box ran stable for 3 years). I don't know if it came to more than +-5C. If so then maybe I'd max out around 65C in summertime, not great, but livable.

But I'm not entirely comfortable with these CPU temps. Athlon 64s run hot! I am thinking of pulling out the CPU and getting a new heatsink & arctic silver just to max my thermal transfer. I'm a little dubious about the process of cleaning the goo off the back of the chip, but I suppose if you get the right solvent and cloth it's not that big a hassle.

Oh well, no rush I suppose. Summer is a ways away yet.

Any less invasive cooling methods? Are all water-cooling type systems based on putting something directly on the CPU, or is there any crap you can put in the case itself to improve cooling? I suppose I could just leave the side open and blow some more fans in there or something...

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:51 pm

Water cooled systems provide the cooling via a "Cooling Block" or in some cases several, but yes they mount to the chips and replace the fan etc. I'm currently working on building one and will hopefully post some pictures soon.

More case fans. Maybe a better pwr supply that is temp controlled.

Are you using rounded cables? Are they all tied up nice?

Rich in KCK · Post by **Rich in KCK** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:52 pm

Get rid of the pad, scrape it off with a razor blade and use isopropyl alcohol to clean any excess off. then use some kind of thermal paste. That should bring it down some. You could need a better cooler but I'm not up to date on AMD 64's. With a watered cooled system like mine you still need to use a thermal paste between the water block and the CPU. Sounds like you know this already but room temperature can have a big effect as well.

I have heard that some people use a hair dryer to heat the pad up and then can just wipe it off with no need for a razor blade to scrape it off.

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:13 pm

Rip wrote:Water cooled systems provide the cooling via a "Cooling Block" or in some cases several, but yes they mount to the chips and replace the fan etc. I'm currently working on building one and will hopefully post some pictures soon.

More case fans. Maybe a better pwr supply that is temp controlled.

Are you using rounded cables? Are they all tied up nice?

Cables are sort of a rat's nest in there, just hanging loose. Can that affect airflow significantly? I suppose I should tie them up. As for rounded cables, not sure what you mean. The IDE cables? They are flat, as IDE cables tend to be.

I have two more case fans unused but not sure where to put them. This particular case doesn't have much room for them on the front & back. If I put them on the sides, like with superglue or something, would that create a crosscurrent that might help...?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:16 pm

bluefugue wrote:
Rip wrote:Water cooled systems provide the cooling via a "Cooling Block" or in some cases several, but yes they mount to the chips and replace the fan etc. I'm currently working on building one and will hopefully post some pictures soon.

More case fans. Maybe a better pwr supply that is temp controlled.

Are you using rounded cables? Are they all tied up nice?
Cables are sort of a rat's nest in there, just hanging loose. Can that affect airflow significantly? I suppose I should tie them up. As for rounded cables, not sure what you mean. The IDE cables? They are flat, as IDE cables tend to be.

I have two more case fans unused but not sure where to put them. This particular case doesn't have much room for them on the front & back. If I put them on the sides, like with superglue or something, would that create a crosscurrent that might help...?

Tie them together for sure. I really prefer the round IDE cables. Better air flow and they look much nicer.

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:27 pm

Gracious, I didn't know there was such a thing. They use the same type connectors and everything? I should buy a couple.

Biyobi · Post by **Biyobi** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:44 pm

Same connectors and everything. In addition to being available on-line I've seen them at places like CompUSA and Fry's.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:30 pm

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.a ... rty&DEPA=0

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:35 pm

I believe the correct response to this thread is:

"I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it"

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:37 pm

We have a winner!

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:37 pm

Bakhtosh, I couldn't get that link to work. What product are you referring to?

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:41 pm

Oh, you CAN replace the fan on the heatsink without replacing the whole thing and messing with the thermal goo. Buy a better fan (search Here for a 60mm fan (assuming your heatsink has a 60mm fan) that has a high CFM and replace the stock fan with it. You should see lower temps. Make sure the airflow is down onto the heatsink.

Do you have at least 2 case fans, one pulling air in, the other pushing air out? The "normal" setup is pull in from the bottom, exhaust at the top.

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:50 pm

Yes, I have two case fans like that, one in lower front pulling in, one in upper back pushing out. Not much room for other case fans although I will take another look and see if I can cram any in.

Putting a new fan on top of the heatsink might be a good low-hassle solution, thanks for the suggestion. I dunno if it's standard for heatsinks to have detachable fans? I will have to look at mine.

Ibby · Post by **Ibby** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:26 pm

If and when you do decide to scrape off that thermal pad, when you're adding the thermal paste, remember that less is more. You want a thin, thin, thin layer of the arctic silver across the cpu. Put a tiny drop on one corner of the cpu die and use your razor blade to spread it out evenly.

Before you attach the heatsink, you can also take a bit of that paste and rub it into the heatsink surface, then wipe it clear. It's supposed to help with the thermal dissipation of the heatsink. You just don't want to see any of it after you wipe it.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:34 pm

If you change fans and remove the thermal pad, forget the razor blade. They aren't perfectly smooth and can leave microscopic gouges in the bottom surface of the heatsink. Use a credit card - you have to work a tiny bit more, but it won't damage your hardware. Go to an auto-parts store and buy some Goo-Off (or Goop-Off, or Goof-Off), use it as a solvent, then use a tiny bit of alcohol to clean the last of the Goo-Off from the hardware.

And, yes, rounded cables are a huge plus. The easiest way to think of it is to imagine the air as water - they have very similar basic dynamics. If you stick an imaginary hose where your intake fan is, would the water stream hit your CPU area, or at least the middle of your case? With ribbon cables, the chances are it would be deflected.

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:57 pm

For the record, Athlon 64's actually run fairly cool compared to a P4.

One thing that may help significantly is more case cooling or a fan over your cpu. It doesn't matter if you have the best heat sink in the world if your case is 40c your heatsink will never cool your cpu below case temp. Some things to check:

Do you have spots where you can add a fan already? Many cases come with 1 or no fans at all. Look for places to mount fans. Often times, you'll see couple of spots to add fans. They are typically at the bottom in the front, on the side panel, in the back by the power supply, at the top of the case between the ps and 5 1/4 bays.

Check the direction of your fans. The front fan should pull air into the case. The side fan should pull air into the case. The back fans should blow air out of the case. The top fan should blow air out of the case. Generally, the air blows to the label side of the fan but a better guage is to look at the arrows on the fan. Most fans have an arrow indicating direction. The cpu fan generally works better if it blows air down onto the cpu instead of pulling air up off of the cpu.

Finally, check for proper installation of the cpu heat sink and fan. If you heat sink isn't seating perfectly, it can affect temps quite a bit.

If you go through all that and your cpu is still hot, consider a thermalright heat sink. They are some of the best around and the prices are pretty good. They are often on sale at svc.com.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:01 pm

bluefugue wrote:Bakhtosh, I couldn't get that link to work. What product are you referring to?

Try this:

http://www.newegg.com/app/manufactory.a ... 317&DEPA=0

Then narrow your search to IDE cables and click on detail view.

Ranulf · Post by **Ranulf** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:47 pm

Yeah, I agree with EvilHomer. Everything I've read says that the 64 chips are fairly cooler than the XP chips of yore and P4s. So I'd say it has to do with your case airflow. How good are the intake vents in the front of your case? I bought a cheapo raidmax case to put my old duron 1ghz into. I have a variable speed thermaltake fan on it and the temps increased 5-10c on average as did the sound of the fan since it sped up to 3500rpm instead of 2200. The old case was an antec clone and the main difference was the new case has no real intake holes on the front of the case and fewer vents in the back. A good case with excellent airflow and wrapped up cables/rounded cables can make all the difference in the world. Of course then you have increased fan noise to deal with...

Also, depending on the thermal pad used, its often just as good or a bit worse than using arctic silver, which you really should reapply yearly to get the best use of it. Some are saying that AMD is using shin etsu thermal pads on their retail heat sinks and they make some of the best thermal paste. If you're not going to overclock I really don't see much point in dealing with paste myself, too much of a hassle.

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:29 pm

I don't think this case is so great for airflow. There's not much room to put a second fan on either front or back and the vent hole areas are pretty small. Put another fan on the side but at most it might have bought me 1 degree C. I bought the case for cheapness but while keeping an eye on the Newegg customer reviews and star rating.

I will get some rounded IDE cables and see if that helps. Then maybe try a different case, check around to see what's best for airflow.

I heard about the shin etsu pads, that they are supposed to be good. Don't know for sure if that's what my HS/F used but it is an AMD64 retail package, and the pad was light grey in color.

The computer runs fine so far; I am worried about the summertime though. If it peaks at 59 this time of year I bet it will get up to 65 or more in sweltering August.

What's strange is that Microsoft Word is a particularly "hot running" program, taking the temp as high as any other program I have tried (including stuff like CS: Source, Unreal 2, and Rome Total War). Funny, I guess word processing is very CPU intensive or something. Maybe I should type more slowly.

Giles Habibula · Post by **Giles Habibula** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:20 pm

Just curious: Is there a site somewhere listing the normal acceptable temps for various processors?