Octopus Overlords

My oldest is starting college next year and so this is the first time I'm dealing with the FAFSA form. Any tips/tricks/recommendations? We have all already created our FSA IDs and today I was actually able to get into the form. Made it all the way to the net worth page before deciding I needed to do some calculating before proceeding.

We still can't get in. It's a total cluster F. It's a soft launch so there's apparently plenty of time to fill it out. My biggest worry is how much the new calculations will screw me. Seems most schools think I can easily spend 30K a year using the old calculation. Spoiler I can't. . This is one of the least fun experiences I've ever had. Like every five seconds it's another 75 dollars here, 100 dollars there. Thankfully she paired down the list to only 5 schools it was like 10+ before.

I was under the impression you could take most of everything from your taxes from last year, but I haven't actually seen in myself yet. The fun thing is that my wife's job closed in June and she hasn't found a new job yet. They make me report on the salary that we don't have anymore. Apparently you can contact the school and point it out and they may adjust, but the timing is less than ideal.

This is obviously my first time with the form, but it asked for permission to pull taxes (if you don't give it, you don't get federal financial aid even if you fill if you fill it in manually). Then there are just 3 boxes - child support, savings/checking account, investments (which don't include retirement accounts). If that's all there is, it seems pretty easy to fill out. No idea what they say I'll be able to provide though. I thought I had heard parents were expected to provide 5% of their income.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:47 pm I thought I had heard parents were expected to provide 5% of their income.

It's a simple 29-page process

Oh right ya I remember them saying that in the meeting that they will pull the taxes directly. If I ever get in I'll let you know how it goes. It's my 1st time too so I'm not going to be much help. With all that they changed I'm not so sure previous experience will help all that much. The one fun thing my daughter did without thinking about it was apply to all Division 1 schools except for 1. The one school has 40% of the kids involved in sports. She doesn't do sports at all. The one kid that has worse grades than her, but does sports got into Princeton early access. Grrr... Super smart, nice kid, but grrr... I'm not enjoying this experience one bit.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:50 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:47 pm I thought I had heard parents were expected to provide 5% of their income.

It's a simple 29-page process

That's the old format. It's a whole new ballgame this year. We just don't know what ballgame it is.

25 pages, then

2024-25 Student Aid Index Calculator

Octavious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:55 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:50 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:47 pm I thought I had heard parents were expected to provide 5% of their income.

It's a simple 29-page process

That's the old format. It's a whole new ballgame this year. We just don't know what ballgame it is.

I'm assuming the formulas are the same, it's just automated better. Given that process, it looks like parents come in at 12% after a whole bunch of number crunching to come up with the available assets.

(And thanks Isgrimnur!)

Oh sweet I'm totally screwed according to that calculator. It is pretty close to what it was using the old calculation. A little bit higher. I really think we might have to bite the bullet and send her to community college for free. We'll end up owing like 120,000. That doesn't seem smart.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:57 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:55 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:50 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:47 pm I thought I had heard parents were expected to provide 5% of their income.

It's a simple 29-page process

That's the old format. It's a whole new ballgame this year. We just don't know what ballgame it is.

I'm assuming the formulas are the same, it's just automated better. Given that process, it looks like parents come in at 12% after a whole bunch of number crunching to come up with the available assets.

(And thanks Isgrimnur!)

No they changed some rules to get people on the lower end more aid. For example if you have more than one kid in college you get very screwed. At least I don't have that. It's really messed up I have to report income that I don't have anymore. And my wife can't freaking even get an interview.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:57 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:55 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:50 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:47 pm I thought I had heard parents were expected to provide 5% of their income.

It's a simple 29-page process

That's the old format. It's a whole new ballgame this year. We just don't know what ballgame it is.

I'm assuming the formulas are the same, it's just automated better. Given that process, it looks like parents come in at 12% after a whole bunch of number crunching to come up with the available assets.

(And thanks Isgrimnur!)

Mine comes to 28%. Maybe I'm an idiot I don't know, but I'm not even remotely doing well, but every time I do these calculators I'm screwed.

I did another calculator and it was 10,000 lower. Still freaking high, but not as insane. I don't know the whole thing is so ridiculous to me.

https://studentaid.gov/aid-estimator/

The SAI is not an expectation of what parents pay, but part of the calculation to see how much aid is going to be expected. Need = Cost of Attendance - SAI - Other Financial Assistance. Anyone able to find how to calculate the OFA?

Ya but the higher the number the more screwed you are. The gov site makes me feel like I'm less screwed so we'll see. I mean honestly doing the calculations as long as I keep a similar pay and I assume my daughter will get a real job and help pay towards it I should be fine. This whole thing is giving me a panic attack though. I'm like the most risk adverse person ever born, but convincing my wife that she should go to county for 2 years is likely to fail.

Not sure why they would need to pull directly from the IRS or you are ineligible for aid. Seems like a problem when some people (like me) can’t have them pull my taxes because of repeated identity theft attempts. The hassle seemed to great.

I have to fill out one more FAFSA, and then I am done for all eternity.

Octavious wrote: convincing my wife that she should go to county for 2 years is likely to fail.

Depends on the major. My oldest went to CCM for two years at CCM, and then went on to graduate from Montclair, and is gainfully employed with his CS degree.

I didn't say it wasn't smart. She would rather work 900 jobs and live under a bridge to make sure my daughter goes to a 4 year. It is not a battle I can win. She's likely doing Biomedical Engineering.

I hope it gets better many years from now when it becomes an issue for my kids.

Just save like 500 a month for the next 18 years and you should be able to cover the 1st year.

Octavious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:00 pm Just save like 500 a month for the next 18 years and you should be able to cover the 1st year.

We started a 529 account for the kids several years ago. Then we discovered that only the state program qualifies for tax exemption, and haven't contributed a dime since.

The kids will have options. Son wants to be a cop. I will encourage him to join the military, and then get GI bill college education so he's not working a beat his whole life. Daughter wants to be famous. She's cute, and has an affinity for various arts (singing, dance, theater, and painting).

Both kids are doing fantastic academically and if it continues (and it's a long way off), scholarships might be in the offing. Apparently, being the kids of a native Filipina bestows citizenship upon them and would allow them nearly-free education in that country if so desired.

Octavious wrote:I didn't say it wasn't smart. She would rather work 900 jobs and live under a bridge to make sure my daughter goes to a 4 year. It is not a battle I can win. She's likely doing Biomedical Engineering.

Does she want to be a Biomedical Engineer?

I ask because that’s a really specific field, and if a 17 year old came to me and said they wanted to be a biomedical engineer, my reaction would be “what the F are you talking about? How do you even know what that is, let alone you know you want to commit yourself to four years of hell in engineering school to become that?!”

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:37 pm

Octavious wrote:I didn't say it wasn't smart. She would rather work 900 jobs and live under a bridge to make sure my daughter goes to a 4 year. It is not a battle I can win. She's likely doing Biomedical Engineering.

Does she want to be a Biomedical Engineer?

That's her intent as of now. I mean it can certainly pay well so I can't really complain about the choice. I would have said do something not so specialized, but what do I know? I thought I wanted to be a network engineer and now I just do project management. I can barely remember my passwords let alone manage a network.

My daughter says that Reddit believes the forms are only available 60-80 minutes a day during the soft launch which is so stupid.

Form is live now. I was able to complete the first parent section.

I’m in between semesters for my first year college kid and the cost for this upcoming second semester is about $20K less than I was expecting. I dare not dig too deeply.

No matter how bad it is, remember this is the new and improved "easier" version. I haven't tried accessing it yet. Still recovering from the trauma last year having two kids in college and having to go through it twice.

Both my kids are going to the school I work at so tuition is covered. Plus, they're living at home this year so no room and board (which was 12k per year each). I've worked at a private college for 20 years at 75% of what I should get paid and it's finally paying off. Now if I can just get the second kid to do his damn homework and pass his classes. Of course I still have to fill out the damn FAFSA.

I was able to start the form this morning... and then was stymied by the first page. I guess I need all the details to steal the kids identity before I can do anything. I really should note that number somewhere I can access without asking my wife to dig out the card.

I filled out that form for the first time last year and it was a terrible ordeal. It took multiple tries to get into the site and through the process.

I really don't want to do it again.

My daughter and I completed our steps, just have to wait for my wife to be able to get through it. Beyond the demographic information, we only had 5 financial boxes to fill out

• child support
• foreign income
• checking & savings
• investments (including stocks & 529b, but excluding all retirement accounts)
• business & farm net worth

I found it really easy even if the end result said we get zero federal aid, which was less than ideal. It warns multiple times that we had to give permission for them to get our taxes from the IRS or else we would be ineligible for federal aid.

I have a child entering college this spring for the first time as well. FAFSA last year wasn't terrible, but the link to the IRS never worked, and I had to enter everything manually. In 2023, I made a significant amount more money, so my expectation is they'll provide less aid. But then, surprise! I got fired on Dec 29th. Now I need to figure out how to let them know my new financial situation....

Looks like this is the way to do it.

Make sure you report 2022 income on the 2024–25 FAFSA form. Do not use your 2023 tax information. We understand that for some families, the 2022 income doesn’t accurately reflect your current financial situation. If you or a contributor on your form had a significant change in income since the 2022 tax year, you should still complete the FAFSA form with 2022 tax information. Then, contact the school where you plan to attend and explain and document the change in income. School officials can assess your situation and may adjust your FAFSA form if warranted.

Note: You can’t update your 2024–25 FAFSA form with your 2023 tax information after filing a 2023 tax return. The 2024–25 FAFSA form requires 2022 information.

Edit: Re-reading what you wrote, 2023 doesn't matter to filling out the form this year. If this is your last year, it's what you made in 2022 that matters...although you'll still want to let the school know you are unemployed (very sorry to hear).

For anyone else who submits - my daughter and I were both able to fill in the information and give consent for the IRS pull. Now the form is in submitted status even though my wife has not yet given consent. I chatted online and got this information

The application has been doing a forced submit after one person signs in. When it has processed, she will most likely receive the invitation and have to add her information. It will not delay the application or aid. It is just a system issue that is being worked on.

The 2024-2025 FASFA form works bet with pop up blockers disabled. We recommend using Chrome. Please note that because this is a soft launch of the new form, these forms will not start processing, even with all information provided, until late January. Corrections will also not be able to be made to the submitted forms until late January.

Octavious wrote:That's her intent as of now. I mean it can certainly pay well so I can't really complain about the choice. I would have said do something not so specialized, but what do I know? I thought I wanted to be a network engineer and now I just do project management. I can barely remember my passwords let alone manage a network.

Did you actually recommend something not so specialized? It’s always a fine line to walk, because you don’t want to feel like you are talking your kid out of their dreams, but we went through this with my daughter.

She originally applied to Montclair as a political science major with the intention of using that as pre-law. Turns out, that was the answer she thought we wanted to hear. When pressed a little to find out what really drives her, she ended up switching to majoring in Film & TV Production with a minor in Creative Writing.

She will certainly be poor(er), but hopefully happier. Luckily we found out before she started, and was able to switch to a different program before she started.

Which is a lot of words to say - you are right, that is REALLY specific. Not a lot of overlap if she realizes that she really wants to teach 13th Century Italian poetry for the rest of her life.

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 12:51 pm

Octavious wrote:That's her intent as of now. I mean it can certainly pay well so I can't really complain about the choice. I would have said do something not so specialized, but what do I know? I thought I wanted to be a network engineer and now I just do project management. I can barely remember my passwords let alone manage a network.

Did you actually recommend something not so specialized? It’s always a fine line to walk, because you don’t want to feel like you are talking your kid out of their dreams, but we went through this with my daughter.

She originally applied to Montclair as a political science major with the intention of using that as pre-law. Turns out, that was the answer she thought we wanted to hear. When pressed a little to find out what really drives her, she ended up switching to majoring in Film & TV Production with a minor in Creative Writing.

She will certainly be poor(er), but hopefully happier. Luckily we found out before she started, and was able to switch to a different program before she started.

Which is a lot of words to say - you are right, that is REALLY specific. Not a lot of overlap if she realizes that she really wants to teach 13th Century Italian poetry for the rest of her life.

I had tried to push her to something more general, but she seems pretty sure on what she wants to do. She's crazy smart and 100% wants to go in that general direction, so I'm sure she will succeed if she wants to. She still has a shot at Princeton as they deferred her to regular admission. Apparently doing the early entry to there was kind of pointless as they generally focus on sports recruiting in early admission.

The other schools were binding so we didn't want to lock her into a school we might not be able to afford. The other kid who got in has almost identical grades and is 6 foot 7. I told her he totally was getting in no matter what as he has amazing grades, SATs and is gigantic. It's not her top school, but she sure as hell will go there if she somehow gets in. It's like 10K a year with their crazy funding they have. We said why not try?

Heh, I was just mentioning the other day to my kids that it might be good to consider more specialized careers since "jack of all trades, master of none" seems to be a much tougher row to hoe than it used to be, in terms of financial success. Of course I mentioned the following your heart, what you love, what you think you could be good at (does one usually even know this at 18 though, much less 16? I'm sure some do), etc. I don't know, I could be very wrong, but it seems like the days of "doesn't really matter, just get a poli sci/history degree and you'll be fine" are at least waning.

Anecdote of one, but I was very much a "generalist" and while I got lucky by being hired before I even graduated (with a Spanish degree!), then got VERY lucky again, the last 8 years or so have been brutal and have really highlighted my lack of a true career path.

Every job I've had (with the exception of one) was dumb luck; my career? Also dumb luck - literally just happened to be in the right place at the right time on the day a blast fax (!) was sent to my undergraduate advisor.

Passion and interest don't matter nearly as much as the connections you can make as an undergraduate. The programs your kids are looking into should ideally have requirements for internships or practicums or research - things that give them hands-on experience in the field they've presumably chosen so that they can start networking and transitioning into the workplace (or academia). If the school or program doesn't have any type of connection to the larger industry they're educating on/for, that is a huge red flag, imho. If they only have academics teaching in the program? Also a huge red-flag.

Sure it will vary based on the major, but if the school can't produce job-placement statistics for a specific major, I'd be real nervous.

Ya the job market is freaking ridiculous. My SIL has crazy credentials and sent out hundreds upon hundreds of applications and barely got any interviews over a 6 month period. The job she got? She got referred by someone that works there. My wife's unemployment runs out in 2 weeks and she's gotten exactly zero replies that weren't a no in 6 months. Most places don't even reply. If you don't have anyone to network with you're f'd.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 3:34 pm Passion and interest don't matter nearly as much as the connections you can make as an undergraduate. The programs your kids are looking into should ideally have requirements for internships or practicums or research - things that give them hands-on experience in the field they've presumably chosen so that they can start networking and transitioning into the workplace (or academia).

I keep pushing my kid on this - she's in her first year as a theater major at SOU which has a prominent local theater community. She's focused on the tech theater side of things and I'm constantly reminding her to look into internships and hands-on opportunities. The degree won't be nearly as valuable as the chance to actually work with people in the industry and make some contacts that might actually lead to jobs.

Anecdotes and all, but connections have had pretty close to nothing to do with success in my career. Maybe I was helped by being a comp sci major when there weren't a lot of CS degrees out there and the internet boom was happening. Of course, some would question calling my career a success.

Anyway, on the FAFSA, sounds like I can take my time since they aren't doing anything with it all month. Also, I am pretty sure there is no help coming to us, related to the previously mentioned success.

30+ years ago it was a different story. Grade inflation and kids that have been "guided" by parents into various extracurriculars (not just sports) prior to college then they continue similar activities (volunteering, clubs, etc...) have made the playing field post-graduation absolutely bonkers. Depending on the job, the degree is really just a small part of the equation - it's the starting point of the discussion when you apply for a job. Having interesting volunteer / internship experience helps, but knowing someone on the inside? Having a current employee that will vouch for you? HUGE advantage. It's also partially why 1st generation college students are having problems. They're being told how important the degree is, but no one is helping them with all the other stuff - in particular the networking. So they end up graduating with insane debt and no job prospects despite being told a degree was necessary.

I'll get off my soap box and allow you to discuss bureaucracy.