Octopus Overlords

I have some old xbox wired controllers (with usb adapters) that I use on my PC. I don't actually own an xbox and never have. Anyway, I've noticed lately that at random times the behaviour of the controller will change. It will start acting like a mouse. Moving the cursor (I often play in windowed mode, so a cursor is always somewhere, but this happens even in full screen mode. I have 2 monitors), changing the behaviour of buttons, etc etc.

I've started to just quite playing rather than fiddle with it. Sometimes I can get it back to behaving properly easily, and sometimes it just refuses.

I recently lost a pile of souls and humanity on a corpse run in Dark Souls when the controller acted up just as I entered a boss arena. That seriously pissed me off. Up until now the timing had only been inconvenient, not catastrophic. Yes, I can earn everything back, but I was saving up for something expensive. Hah.

Anyway, has anyone seen this before, and if so, have they found a permanent solution? Sometimes pressing the start button and then pressing and holding it down for 5 seconds will fix everything, but not always, and not often enough.

Ideas?

edit: To clarify a bit, the left joystick will move the windows mouse cursor around and stop moving the in game cursor/character, and the A and B buttons will start acting as mouse button clicks. I haven't payed attention map out all the changes.

I had tried method 1 from this MS article. I couldn't tell if it worked and then stopped working or if it just took awhile to screw up and never was fixed in the first place.

MS article.

Steam no longer matches the description in Method 2.

I've uninstalled Xbox extended feature support driver as it seems the closest the Method 2. I'll test it and see how it goes.

I don't have an answer off the top of my head, but which Xbox controller? 360? XB1?

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 3:17 pm I had tried method 1 from this MS article. I couldn't tell if it worked and then stopped working or if it just took awhile to screw up and never was fixed in the first place.

MS article.

Steam no longer matches the description in Method 2.

I've uninstalled Xbox extended feature support driver as it seems the closest the Method 2. I'll test it and see how it goes.

Courtesy of SuperUser.com, here are some additional settings and suggestions that may help, even if you're aren't necessarily using an Xbox One game controller:

Stop Xbox One controller from controlling Windows 10

Try to check your controller's desktop layout in steam. Make sure that is setup as normal controller instead of a setting that allow you use to use the controller as replacement for mouse/keyboard.

Thanks guys.

I uninstalled extended support driver and played for 2 hours without issue. However, that's not long enough to be sure, because it can be very sporadic.

I'll look closer at your suggestions. Thanks again.

I should mention that I had desktop layout configured to "disabled" so there wasn't anything directly mapped to the controller inputs.

This may be a longshot but have you tried turning off your mouse? I had this problem and it was driving me crazy until I realized it was my mouse going active (desk getting bumped, rescanning, etc) and the game would automatically switch to KB/M from controller and the controller would act as a pointer. Turned off my mouse and it stopped happening. Was driving me crazy until I figured it out.

No, I haven't tried that, although it might be worth a shot.

After another 2 hours of play, it started to happen again, out of the blue, in the middle of a boss fight (one of the easier ones mechanically, so I didn't die). Frustrating.

I think the problem is that I have 2 monitors with the desktop across both. I also think the problem shows up faster if I switch between game and other monitor regularly.

I might try mirroring monitors instead of side by side desktop while I game, but that kind of defeats the purpose of a second monitor.

Is it on any game? If it's only on certain games, check if there's an option in the settings to 'lock cursor to screen' or something like that - it'll prevent a mouse cursor from leaving the current screen unless you actually alt-tab.

/edit - if you use DisplayFusion with your second monitor, there's a setting for that in Settings/Functions under Mouse Cursor. I don't know if it'll help.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:38 pm Is it on any game? If it's only on certain games, check if there's an option in the settings to 'lock cursor to screen' or something like that - it'll prevent a mouse cursor from leaving the current screen unless you actually alt-tab.

/edit - if you use DisplayFusion with your second monitor, there's a setting for that in Settings/Functions under Mouse Cursor. I don't know if it'll help.

2 games so far. Graveyard Keeper and Dark Souls (Prepare to die! edition. i.e. NOT the remaster).

I don't play many games with a controller on the PC these days, especially since PS5 is in the other room.

Dark Souls is kind of a terrible port (it's functional), so it has almost no configurable settings, at least in a menu. I should check if there is any ini files that can be looked into.

No displayFusion here.

Thanks for the idea.

Well, it's a start. If it really is that it's jumping between monitors, locking the cursor seems like a solid lead on a solution. At least it's a direction.

Check your controller setting for desktop in the steam settings. Make sure that set it to gamepad mode instead of keyboard/mouse mode or something else.

I think maybe it somehow detected you're using the controller with the windows desktop instead of a game so it switched to the layout for desktop.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:21 pm Well, it's a start. If it really is that it's jumping between monitors, locking the cursor seems like a solid lead on a solution. At least it's a direction.

Yeah, I don't think it's jumping back and forth between monitors. I think it might be getting confused because the game occupies 1 monitor but the other monitor has the desktop visible, so, and I'm wildly guessing here, windows is getting confused about whether the mouse/controller behaviour should be the game or the desktop. When it glitches the mouse pointer just shows up wherever it last was. I.e. sometimes as an overlay of the game. It's very strange since I've turned off any settings (in steam) that might treat the controller as a windows interface (m/kb). Yet it still does it anyway.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:45 am Check your controller setting for desktop in the steam settings. Make sure that set it to gamepad mode instead of keyboard/mouse mode or something else.

I think maybe it somehow detected you're using the controller with the windows desktop instead of a game so it switched to the layout for desktop.

I'll look again, but I've been in there multiple times and turned off anything that I thought could be remotely related already. At this point I'm doing things at random, so maybe I've just missed something.

Thanks again for all the ideas guys. I realize this might not be an easy one.

Just found out that you can turn off the desktop layout which seem to be a better choice than just set the desktop layout to gamepad.

By default the desktop layout is to emulate using a keyboard/mouse layout to control Windows desktop or non steam application. I changed that to gamepad to prevent the problem that you have but if you click the gear icon at the layout setting screen for desktop, you can actually disable it just like how you can disable per game.

So click on that gear icon (on the layout setting page of desktop layout) and select disable steam input.

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/ ... 622978614/

The instruction is to use Big Picture mode but you don't need to do that, now Steam setting page include controller setting section and it allow you to set desktop layout (layout for when it doesn't detect any game).

Out of curiosity, are you running true fullscreen, fullscreen windowed?

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:45 am Out of curiosity, are you running true fullscreen, fullscreen windowed?

I've tried both. Problem shows up with both.

Hey, did you guys know there is a Game Mode in windows 10? I don't know what it does or how it works, but I've turned it off along with a setting called Xbox Game Bar.

Fingers crossed. Randomly trying things is a sure way to waste hours without result! Hah.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:23 am Just found out that you can turn off the desktop layout which seem to be a better choice than just set the desktop layout to gamepad.

Already done. Desktop Layout is set to "disabled" and none of the controller buttons are mapped to anything.

Thanks for the suggestion though!

Turning off game mode is one of the first things I always do. It slightly improves performance in some games, but degrades it in others.

Well that didn't help, but I did find another piece of information. It's not completely random. It seems to trigger off of the start button on the right (it's an original xbox controller, whatever they are called.).

It only happens sometimes. I can also reset the focus back to the game, hit start again, and everything returns to normal. So it's obviously a toggle when the start button is pressed, but not all the time?!

Weird.

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 1:00 pm Well that didn't help, but I did find another piece of information. It's not completely random. It seems to trigger off of the start button on the right (it's an original xbox controller, whatever they are called.).

Original? As in one of these?



Honestly, if so, it may just be compatibility issues with 22-year-old hardware that was released five Windows versions ago.

Nope, xbox 360, sorry. Wired with usb adapter (came with).

Isgrim's diagram is correct.

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 1:00 pm Well that didn't help, but I did find another piece of information. It's not completely random. It seems to trigger off of the start button on the right (it's an original xbox controller, whatever they are called.).

It only happens sometimes. I can also reset the focus back to the game, hit start again, and everything returns to normal. So it's obviously a toggle when the start button is pressed, but not all the time?!

Weird.

wonder if it could be a hardware problem: the activation contact from the start button is cross-activating with the Xbox button (or even Select button).

(could remove the housing from the gamepad and clean the contacts out)

It's possible. I have a second controller. I'll try that first.

It's probably not the cause, but I'm mentioning it just in case. Those controllers had a lot of issues with the connections where the cord attached to the controller. It usually just resulted in random disconnects, but it might be possible that it's doing something that 'confuses' Windows, sending an errant input.

The cord issues were why I eventually had to replace mine with an Xbox One wireless controller.

OK, thanks for the heads up. I'll keep an eye out for symptoms.

This isn't advice or an immediate suggestion, just generic info.

If you reach a point at which you consider replacing it, I used a corded 360 controller for years, and considered it the best controller I'd ever used, hands down. When I replaced it, I went with the Xbox One wireless controller with the USB wireless dongle (it supports Bluetooth, but my old motherboard didn't have it.) It's been just as good - maybe better - and the lack of a cord has been really nice, especially when playing mixed games (like GTA or Cyberpunk, where I use the keyboard/mouse on foot, but drive with the controller.)

Again, not suggesting you replace it, just pointing out that you wouldn't be downgrading if you did, a fear that kept me using my 360 controller after it was held together with rubber bands.

Keep in mind, it's also remarkably simple and easy to fully disassemble and clean the internals of Xbox 360 controllers in particular. This will more often than not completely rectify any analog stick drift, too. For disassembly, just use a Torx Security 8 (TR8) bit to remove the seven external screws that hold the controller together, and Phillips #0 screwdriver to remove the two internal screws in the D-pad, and you're good to go.

Here are some videos that clearly illustrate how simple this can be:





The point being, prior to replacing your Xbox 360 controller(s), make sure you first try thoroughly deep cleaning the internals, as doing so really is a piece of cake.

For analog stick drift in particular, the BW-100 Electronic Contact Cleaner shown in the second video greatly simplifies the cleaning process. Because you can easily spray it directly into thumbstick potentiometers and work it in to thoroughly remove any cruft, and straight onto electrical circuits without any risk of causing a short. Technical grade 99% isopropyl alcohol works too, but typically lacks the handy extension straws for hard-to-reach areas that are included with BW-100 Electronic Contact Cleaner.

Thanks AB. I've worked on my switch joycons so I'm not too nervous of opening up this controller, particularly when they are old and worn too. Could be convinced to just replace them.

That said, I switched controllers and haven't seen any issues yet. However, I haven't played long enough to have any confidence yet. Last time I made some changes and the problem didn't show up for 2-3 hours of play, so I need more testing before knowing if swapping controllers had any effect.

Again, thanks for the controller cleaning vid!

I'm not the most handy person in the world and I was able to take apart a series x controller without breaking it. And a joystick the one time. I really wish they would all switch their crappy sensors, but I guess it's cheap which is why everyone uses the same ones.

I've switched controllers and didn't see the problem for 1 play session. I did see some other iffy behaviour from the controller though

I'll get another play session in this evening and if the problem doesn't rear its ugly head, I'll assume controller mechanical glitches. Congrats to hitbyanambulance for the (potentially) successful diagnosis!

And thanks for everyone taking the time to think about this and give me ideas. I really appreciate it!

I will likely open both controllers up this weekend and clean up a little.

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:14 am
I'll get another play session in this evening and if the problem doesn't rear its ugly head, I'll assume controller mechanical glitches. Congrats to hitbyanambulance for the (potentially) successful diagnosis!

my years of electronics tinkering experience is useful for _something_, at least

No issues with different controller for decently long play session yesterday afternoon. Time for a cleansing. Since I have 1 working controller, of course I will procrastinate until the second controller starts acting up too before doing anything about either of them.

At least I know where to start next time! And when/if I do clean the other one, I will report back with success/failure to resolve the issue.

edit:
Bah. Suddenly started happening repeatedly on every start press. I *will* clean them out, but it seems so strange that it is consistently not a problem until it consistently os.

I never did clean either controller, but I did some more trouble shooting. After I disabled "HID-game controller" in the device manager, things started working correctly.

I have played several (3?) game sessions without the problem rearing its ugly head. I feel like this is it, I've finally eliminated the issue.

Thanks everyone for your input and insights. Much appreciated.

edit: and the problem is back after 4 days. I guess I'm going to need to clean a controller just to eliminate it as a possibility. F**k this is annoying.

I'm determined to avoid cleaning these things, I guess.

Truthfully, this behaviour while seemingly random, is a detectable pattern and repeatable when it does happen, which leads me to believe it's software.

I've replaced the x360 drivers with an older version that may or may not help.

old driver

Nope.

Honestly, it may just be time to upgrade. As a former wired 360 controller addict, I still highly recommend the XBox One wireless controller for PC.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 1:32 pm Honestly, it may just be time to upgrade. As a former wired 360 controller addict, I still highly recommend the XBox One wireless controller for PC.

yep.