Octopus Overlords

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:53 pm War is Boring

The Navy operates one ship, a guided-missile cruiser named the USS Chancellorsville, commissioned in 1989 in honor of the Civil War battle that occurred in Virginia. Some historians consider the battle a major Confederate victory, according to an August 2017 Congressional Research Service report on military installations with Confederate names.

Grifman wrote:

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:53 pm War is Boring

The Navy operates one ship, a guided-missile cruiser named the USS Chancellorsville, commissioned in 1989 in honor of the Civil War battle that occurred in Virginia. Some historians consider the battle a major Confederate victory, according to an August 2017 Congressional Research Service report on military installations with Confederate names.

This is totally irrelevant. The Navy has a long history of naming ships after famous battles in US history. Are we really going to start ignoring battles that happened to be Confederate victories against Union forces?

Combustible Lemur wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:37 am It even mentions in the article that this was just prior to the world wars when there was specifically a resurgence of racially aggravating symbols across the country.

Combustible Lemur wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:37 am

Grifman wrote:

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:53 pm War is Boring

The Navy operates one ship, a guided-missile cruiser named the USS Chancellorsville, commissioned in 1989 in honor of the Civil War battle that occurred in Virginia. Some historians consider the battle a major Confederate victory, according to an August 2017 Congressional Research Service report on military installations with Confederate names.

This is totally irrelevant. The Navy has a long history of naming ships after famous battles in US history. Are we really going to start ignoring battles that happened to be Confederate victories against Union forces?

With the current state of our society and the the gross legacy of using historical ties to the confederacy to gall and subdue racial minorities in the south...... Maybe.
It even mentions in the article that this was just prior to the world wars when there was specifically a resurgence of racially aggravating symbols across the country.



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hepcat wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:10 pm We don’t name our vessels after battles we lost in other wars, do we? Legit question, by the way. I don’t know offhand.

hepcat wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:10 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:37 am

Grifman wrote:

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:53 pm War is Boring

The Navy operates one ship, a guided-missile cruiser named the USS Chancellorsville, commissioned in 1989 in honor of the Civil War battle that occurred in Virginia. Some historians consider the battle a major Confederate victory, according to an August 2017 Congressional Research Service report on military installations with Confederate names.

This is totally irrelevant. The Navy has a long history of naming ships after famous battles in US history. Are we really going to start ignoring battles that happened to be Confederate victories against Union forces?

With the current state of our society and the the gross legacy of using historical ties to the confederacy to gall and subdue racial minorities in the south...... Maybe.
It even mentions in the article that this was just prior to the world wars when there was specifically a resurgence of racially aggravating symbols across the country.



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I’m good with naming them only after Union victories if going with Civil War battles. We don’t name our vessels after battles we lost in other wars, do we? Legit question, by the way. I don’t know offhand.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:51 pm
Does this count?

USS Falmouth

Burning of Falmouth.

hepcat wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:10 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:37 am

Grifman wrote:

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:53 pm War is Boring

The Navy operates one ship, a guided-missile cruiser named the USS Chancellorsville, commissioned in 1989 in honor of the Civil War battle that occurred in Virginia. Some historians consider the battle a major Confederate victory, according to an August 2017 Congressional Research Service report on military installations with Confederate names.

This is totally irrelevant. The Navy has a long history of naming ships after famous battles in US history. Are we really going to start ignoring battles that happened to be Confederate victories against Union forces?

With the current state of our society and the the gross legacy of using historical ties to the confederacy to gall and subdue racial minorities in the south...... Maybe.
It even mentions in the article that this was just prior to the world wars when there was specifically a resurgence of racially aggravating symbols across the country.



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I’m good with naming them only after Union victories if going with Civil War battles. We don’t name our vessels after battles we lost in other wars, do we? Legit question, by the way. I don’t know offhand.

As cities and states grapple with the future of Confederate monuments, the Alabama Supreme Court has weighed in on one: Putting plywood around its base violated state law.

The court on Wednesday upheld the state's protections of the monuments and cited Birmingham for building a black wooden box around the memorial. The city will be hit with a $25,000 fine.

Earlier this year, Jefferson County Circuit Judge Michael Graffeo overturned the Alabama Memorial Preservation Act, saying it violated the free-speech rights of communities.

That 2017 law -- directed at local governments -- bars the removal, renaming, removal and alteration of monuments, memorial streets, memorial buildings and architecturally significant buildings located on public property for 40 or more years.
...
The high court heard arguments on whether the plywood screen "altered" or "otherwise disturbed" the monument. In its 9-0 ruling, the justices said that it did by obstructing the view.

As to Birmingham's argument that it has a right to free speech, the court ruled "the city cannot assert any substantive constitutional rights against its creator state."

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:47 am Some day they will do all this to Vietnam veterans too.

Kurth wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:24 am

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:47 am Some day they will do all this to Vietnam veterans too.

Some say the Earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese. Some say our President isn't an orangutang. Some say a lot of stuff.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:37 am

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:13 am

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:37 am

If I had to guess, I'd say this was the work of drunk pissed-off kids rather than any political statement. (I honestly can't think of a group held in higher public regard than veterans. Examples of asshole graffiti do nothing to change that.)

This is a whole world away from the debate over Confederate monuments.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:23 am

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:13 am

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:37 am

If I had to guess, I'd say this was the work of drunk pissed-off kids rather than any political statement. (I honestly can't think of a group held in higher public regard than veterans. Examples of asshole graffiti do nothing to change that.)

This is a whole world away from the debate over Confederate monuments.

Also, seems like this comparison is implicitly equating U.S. military veterans with Confederate veterans, in terms of status and where they are / should be in national memory? Seems odd to me. Why would questions about how to memoralize the veterans of an insurrection against the U.S. government (a literally traitorous cause) mean that people will one day turn on U.S. veterans from the Vietnam War?

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:40 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:23 am

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:13 am

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:37 am

If I had to guess, I'd say this was the work of drunk pissed-off kids rather than any political statement. (I honestly can't think of a group held in higher public regard than veterans. Examples of asshole graffiti do nothing to change that.)

This is a whole world away from the debate over Confederate monuments.

Also, seems like this comparison is implicitly equating U.S. military veterans with Confederate veterans, in terms of status and where they are / should be in national memory? Seems odd to me. Why would questions about how to memoralize the veterans of an insurrection against the U.S. government (a literally traitorous cause) mean that people will one day turn on U.S. veterans from the Vietnam War?

Well, did turn on them once. I'd like to think we learned a valuable lesson but can't blame Vietnam vets for being doubtful.


Side note, I'm working on a project to identify and catalog all the veterans' memorials in my neighborhood. I have about 12 I'm aware of but there are probably several we haven't found yet (many were put up by block clubs on the sides of buildings during/immediately after wars and are hidden or covered) . 9 WWII, 3 Korea. No Vietnam. Ultimately we may put up a Vietnam one.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:12 pmWe've had wars since that were unjustified and unpopular, and people went out of their way to make it clear that despite their feelings about the politics, they supported the troops themselves. We have, I like to think, learned our lesson.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:02 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:12 pmWe've had wars since that were unjustified and unpopular, and people went out of their way to make it clear that despite their feelings about the politics, they supported the troops themselves. We have, I like to think, learned our lesson.

The lesson we appear to have learned is to trot out our new veterans at sporting events, spout off rote "thank you for your service," and leave them to fend off depression, PTSD, and everything else on their own.

stessier wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:59 am

Kurth wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:24 am

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:47 am Some day they will do all this to Vietnam veterans too.

Some say the Earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese. Some say our President isn't an orangutang. Some say a lot of stuff.

Did you misread his quote?

Nikki Haley says the Confederate flag was about "service, and sacrifice, and heritage" until Dylan Roof "hijacked" it

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:08 pm Service, sacrifice and heritage. Those are three words I would not use to describe the Confederate flag, no.

Visions of sugar plums were not dancing in the heads of officials in Wake Forest, N.C. Instead, they saw protesters violently clashing with members of a local Confederate group who were set to march in the town’s 72nd annual Christmas parade later this month.

So to be safe, the town canceled it.

In a Wednesday night video message, Wake Forest Mayor Vivian Jones announced that the town’s downtown board of directors voted to cancel the Dec. 14 Christmas parade out of concern that “outside agitators” would show up to protest or defend the Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy, who planned to march in the event.

The decision in Wake Forest, located less than 20 miles outside Raleigh, comes almost a week after another nearby town, Garner, N.C., announced it was canceling its Christmas parade over possible protests of a float sponsored by a local Confederate group, the Raleigh News & Observer reported.

By the end of her video announcement, Jones was fighting tears.

“Based on information we have received in recent days, this year’s event has the potential to be one marked not by marching bands and Santa Claus but instead by protests between clashing groups from outside Wake Forest, with innocent bystanders caught in the middle,” Jones said. “It is due to these concerns that I support the decision of the Wake Forest Downtown Board of Directors to deny these outside agitators the opportunity to use Wake Forest to spread hate and incite violence.”

...until Dylan Roof "hijacked" it.

Holman wrote:

...until Dylan Roof "hijacked" it.

(Some of the kids in that photo are probably alive and watching Fox right now.)

A judge has overturned a contentious settlement that the University of North Carolina system reached with the Sons of Confederate Veterans over the Confederate monument known as Silent Sam.

The November 2019 agreement required the UNC system to give Silent Sam to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, along with $2.5 million for its preservation and display. It was announced within minutes of a lawsuit filed by the group.

Orange County Superior Court Judge Allen Baddour — who originally signed off on that settlement — ruled Wednesday that the group lacked standing to bring its lawsuit in the first place.

As states continue to grapple with the passionate debate over whether to display statues and other tributes to Confederate leaders, Marines have been told the materials won't be tolerated on any of the Corps' installations.

Commandant Gen. David Berger last week instructed top Marine leaders to remove Confederate-related paraphernalia from the service's bases worldwide. The directive is one of several forward-leaning initiatives Berger said he is "prioritizing for immediate execution."

State Sen. Dale Zorn, a Republican from Ida, apologized in a pair of Twitter posts Saturday for the face mask that he wore on the Michigan Senate floor on Friday.

"I'm sorry for my choice of pattern on the face mask I wore yesterday on the Senate floor. I did not intend to offend anyone; however, I realize that I did, and for that I am sorry. Those who know me best know that I do not support the things this pattern represents," Zorn said.

Zorn, in an interview with CNN affiliate WLNS, said his wife made the face mask for him and it was not a Confederate flag. He said that even if it were a Confederate flag, it represents a part of our history and we should be teaching about the "atrocities that happened during that time" so it doesn't happen again.

He told WLNS the mask was a pattern similar to that of either the Kentucky or Tennessee flag.

"My actions were an error in judgment for which there are no excuses and I will learn from this episode," he added in his apology statement on social media.