Galactic Civilizations IV

[Kraken]

Sometimes I become unmoored in time. I was thinking it's 2024. Hard to believe you people are all still living in '22.

Regardless, it sounds like it's still a Pass. I'm sticking with GC3 unless my 2024 forum says otherwise.

The 2024 forum says "cut the bait." Not sure how it applies here.

Alright, I'm going to go back to my own timeline. If I don't post here again, I probably bought the game and liked it.

Doesn't work that way. You go back to 2024 and buy it and like it, you have to come back and tell us when they patch/DLC it to a good game so we know when to join the party.

Almost all of you are dead by 2024. Sorry you had to find out this way.

[Sudy]

It was bee colony collapse wasn't it.

[Zenn7]

Sometimes I become unmoored in time. I was thinking it's 2024. Hard to believe you people are all still living in '22.

Regardless, it sounds like it's still a Pass. I'm sticking with GC3 unless my 2024 forum says otherwise.

The 2024 forum says "cut the bait." Not sure how it applies here.

Alright, I'm going to go back to my own timeline. If I don't post here again, I probably bought the game and liked it.

Doesn't work that way. You go back to 2024 and buy it and like it, you have to come back and tell us when they patch/DLC it to a good game so we know when to join the party.

Almost all of you are dead by 2024. Sorry you had to find out this way.

Could you be more specific? I want to know when to quit work and go blow my savings.

[Jeff V]

Oh, just Civ, it will take several years to go from half to full-assed. The question is whether the waypoints are enjoyable -- in the case of Civ 6, I say yes. Gal Civ III was also a yes...I bought but scarcely played the last add-on, however.

[jztemple2]

Well, there's really no point in buying Galactic Civilizations IV now. Stardock just announced the upcoming changes planned for the game in 2023. And with these major changes it's going to take months to implement. Thankfully GalCiv4 just got a major update

So this Spring will mark the one year anniversary of the release of Galactic Civilizations IV. And we have some really big plans for it. We've been working hard on a major revamp of the entire game.

Here are some of the areas we are making big changes:

1. Totally new combat system. Beam vs. Kinetic vs. Missile as a rock paper scissors mechanic against shields, armor and point defense is going away. Instead, various types of weapons will have their own pros and cons in areas like costs, sizes, effectiveness, and on map benefits. This will give us a lot more nuance and open the door to having a lot of new types of weapons and defenses in the future.

2. New ship design system. You won't be choosing Hulls anymore. You will choose a general class of ship which will determine how much mass you have available. This will eventually let us have many types of classes (Frigates, Cruisers, Battleships, Dreadnoughts, and other types) rather than be limited to a number of types based on what words we can think of to describe sizes (uh, so um super gigantic mega hull?).

3. New invasion system. We are going to move a bit away from the binary "you need a transport" system of invading plants that I've had in GalCiv since I was in college. Instead, the time it takes to invade a system will be affected based on the conquest rating of your fleet. So having an invasion transport with you would greatly increase that obviously. But you won't need one to conquer some piddly little world just because of "the rules".

4. New ideology system. Your choices will no longer give you points in a particular ideology. They will simply make certain ideological choices less expensive to acquire. So if you always play as an evil bastard, the evil bastard ideology choices will be cheaper to get but you can still go against the grain and live a life of self-deception.

5. Updated research system. So instead of only having N techs you can research, you instead will be able to research any tech you want. HOWEVER, you will be presented with N techs that scientists are on the verge of breakthroughs of which will be 50% cheaper to research than other techs. So while you can choose any tech, it'll be very tempting to go with the ones that are on the verge of breakthroughs.

This is only a small list of changes that we think players will really like. We're also doing things like adding a tutorial, improving the graphics further, making performance improvements, new map setup changes, etc. We'll have more news soon.

[Jeff V]

Are you still in on early access? Please let us know when it's fully baked. I probably would have bought this already except I've had almost no time for gaming. Civ 6 even came out with a new leader subscription that I've not had time to look into.

[jztemple2]

Are you still in on early access? Please let us know when it's fully baked. I probably would have bought this already except I've had almost no time for gaming. Civ 6 even came out with a new leader subscription that I've not had time to look into.

The game is no longer in early access on Epic, hasn't been for a long while. My point in the above post is that they are going to substantially change how the game plays so there is no point in buying and playing it now since so much will be changed. And with so many changes it's going to be a long time before they get everything working properly.

My main issue with the game was the use of sectors, which I felt was implemented poorly. Also in spite of my and a lot of other people's comments, there is still not overall diplomacy screen, something that has been in GalCiv since the beginning. There's no good reason not to have one and a lot of reasons why they should have one.

I do like the main thrust of the suggested changes. Some of the way that GalCiv III and IV work now, with the "rock paper scissors mechanic" for instance, would definitely be helped by changing to something more nuanced. Same way with the changes to hull size and invasions. One does wonder, however, what the thought process was and is over at Stardock. Some years are spent to develop GC4, then less than a year after full release out of early access they are going to redo a great deal of how the game plays. Was it that poorly received?

[Jeff V]

Was it that poorly received?

Well, I didn't buy it because you seemed to use a different finger than the expected "thumbs up."

[jztemple2]

Was it that poorly received?

Well, I didn't buy it because you seemed to use a different finger than the expected "thumbs up."

I meant in respect to the sales that Stardock was expecting, if you were asking about that.

I think there was a lot of folks disappointed when after being in alpha for a long time and then in beta for what seemed like not long enough, it was released almost immediately followed by posts that indicated how they were going to add features that you kind of expected to be in the release. And now they are planning to really change a lot of the core gameplay. I just wish someone from Stardock would explain why this game seems to be going back into alpha again.

Actually I'm secretly hoping that those changes mentioned in my post from a few days will get rolled into GalCiv3 which already has a lot of features I like. Or at least, if they are going to do the changes for GalCiv4, they at least get rid of the horrible sectors mechanic. I tried it and it just isn't enjoyable.

[Jeff V]

The business model for these type of games have certainly changed. You used to get a complete game at the outset, and then innovative addons during the lifecycle. Now you're getting a very basic game that lacks much of what the previous version had, and you're expected to pay-as-you-go to get to the final destination. It seems very much that Gal Civ 4 took a step backward from the final product of Gal Civ 3 -- compare to Civ 6, which revised enough elements in the game to make the initial offering compelling although it would take quite a few add-ons to become feature-complete.

[jztemple2]

Yup, you've nailed it there. Civ 6 is a good example, quite playable in basic form. And GalCiv3 on initial release was somewhat buggy, but after some tweaks was a lot of fun, I put many hours into it. Some of the early DLC was a mixed bag, but Retribution really made it a significantly better game. It must drive the developers nuts to make updates that have to accommodate whether folks have this DLC but not that.

Crusader Kings 3 is a good example of how the devs learned from the pushback from players who got tired of the constant dribble of smaller updates for CK2. The Royal Court DLC adds so many nice touches but the other two, Northern Lords and Iberian Struggle are, to me, sort of super scenario packs. Not at all necessary.

What irked me about GC4 is that while they added some interesting new features, they seemed to have just rolled over a lot of the GC3 gameplay, like ship design. Now that should have been a good thing, but in the end it felt like I was playing GC3.5; something like the latest GC3 version but with a bunch of changes thrown on top that took away from some of the fun of GC3 without adding in enough new fun elements. What they are now proposing is what they should have put in GC4 to begin with.

Heavens, I do ramble on at times, don't I?

[Kraken]

I appreciate the rambling. I just went back into GC3 and was thinking about trying 4, even though I don't like that business of dividing the galaxy into cells. Maybe someday eventually. Meanwhile GC3 plays just fine.

[jztemple2]

A sort of a Christmas present, Explorminate has a long review of GalCiv4 in its current state:

Better late than never, right? It’s time to finally talk about Galactic Civilizations 4 as a “finished” product. With the trials eXplorminate has recently faced, this one took a bit longer than I would have liked but I’m ready to talk about how the game evolved through its final stages of development before version 1.0 was released way back in April of this year (2022).

Furthermore, in the interest of honesty and transparency, I’ve also waited a bit in hopes of seeing signs of post-release support that might address some of the issues I take with Galactic Civilizations 4 (GalCiv 4). But frankly, the game hasn’t seen the type of post-release support that it needs and is usually the status quo for Stardock games. More on that later in the review, though.

My concerns here are two-fold. First, the game is rough in areas that I thought would be addressed before release. In fact, I was very surprised when Stardock announced an April release date, as the game did not feel ready. Unfortunately, that release date didn’t give them time to fully realize GalCiv 4‘s potential and nearly all the concerns I had leading into the final months of the beta were not addressed.

Also, why hasn’t Stardock supported the game like they usually do? Is it because the Epic exclusivity money wasn’t enough to offset the lack of sales on the Epic Games platform? Or are there other issues, such as being spread too thin, that are at play here?

I am concerned.

So, I’m going to look at the game for what it is right now. For better or worse…

[Kraken]

A sort of a Christmas present, Explorminate has a long review of GalCiv4 in its current state:

Most informative, thanks.

This is beyond the scope of GC4, but someday a 4X space game needs to rethink the exploration phase (which to me is the most fun part of the game). Astronomy has gotten so good that we primitive little earthlings already have a pretty good picture of our stellar neighborhood and beyond. We can certainly characterize just about any star in the sky, and we have a pretty good idea whether there are any planets there. There are already telescopes on the drawing board that will be able to examine exoworlds in some detail. So a starfaring civilization isn't going to be looking at a sea of gray with some mystery dots. If we ever get hyperdrive we'll know where we want to explore first.

I don't know what the answer is to that. I like pushing back the gray. But it's already laughably unrealistic and getting more so every year. Maybe you start with your astronomers' best idea of any particular alien star but there's an uncertainty factor. Maybe there are surprises when your scouts actually get there.

[Jeff V]

Maybe Brad needs to stop living in the dark ages...

[jztemple2]

Really interesting article, GalCiv IV: Supernova Dev Journal #13 - AlienGPT

GPT stands for “Generative Pre-trained Transformer” and since the release of OpenAI’s ChatGPT the world of generative AI has really taken off. For the past several months, we have been working to build GPT technology into our Tachyon engine, Stardock’s cloud-based metagaming technology that has previously been seen in Ashes of the Singularity, Offworld Trading Company and Star Control: Origins. Thanks to OpenAI’s ChatGPT API and Tachyon, we are proud to demonstrate what this technology can do for games.

AI generated civilizations
In the past, Stardock would release new civilizations for $4.99 for 5 as a DLC. Creating a new civilization was a lot of work. Lots of writing and lots of new art and game balance. With Galactic Civilizations IV: Supernova, it’s just a matter of entering a description of your civilization and pressing a button:

Step 1: Enter a description for your civilization.



Step 2: Press the button.



There is no step 3.

[Jeff V]

A sure winner in the Vanilla Wars scenario...

[jztemple2]

Well, this is something I hadn't expected, Galactic Civilizations IV: Supernova is now available on Steam in Early Access:


The original Galactic Civilizations IV is not available on Steam, and I expect will never be.

If, instead, you wanted to get Supernova on Epic as a DLC for your copy of Galactic Civilizations IV which you bought a long time ago , you'll find that it is no longer a DLC as once suggested, it is instead a separate product priced at $40. But since you bought the original GalCiv4, you only have to pay $16.

And what the hell is Galactic Civilizations IV: Supernova? Hell if I really know. Partly it is GalCiv4 with some of the new features that were promised to be added to GC4, but now are in a separate product . And part of it is this (I posted about this above):

Galactic Civilizations IV: Supernova gives you an entire galaxy to explore and customize. Using cutting-edge AI technology, you will be able to create entire civilizations that both look and feel unique just by entering a few lines of text. The AI will generate custom lore, diplomatic dialogues, starship choices, and ambassador images, leaving you with a one-of-a-kind civilization to play as or against.

But I felt burned by the first GC4 experience and don't feel like ponying up $16 on Epic (I'm trying to get away from Epic) or $40 on Steam for an Early Access game that is based upon the original GC4 which I felt was still flawed. So I'll continue to follow development, but buyer beware, there are a lot of bugs being reported.

Also, Moat_Man, would you update the thread title to show "Galactic Civilizations IV & Galactic Civilizations IV: Supernova" so folks will be able to find it with a search? Thanks!

[jztemple2]

For those interested, a history of the Galactic Civilizations games.

[jztemple2]

UPDATE TO BELOW: I forgot to post it, but according to Brad "Galactic Civilizations IV: Supernova releases on October 19th, 2023 at 1PM Est". I'm assuming that he's forgetting that most of us are on EDT, but that's OK. I'm also assuming that by "releases" he means coming out of Early Access.

GalCiv IV: Supernova Dev Journal #29 - What's new in Supernova

There is more new and changed in GalCiv IV: Supernova than all the changes coming from GalCiv II through GalCiv IV (base game) combined.

The chart below doesn’t really do justice to the magnitude of the changes. This journal entry will talk about it.



First, let me introduce myself. I’m Brad Wardell. I designed the original Galactic Civilizations for OS/2 back in 1992 which went into beta in (wait for it) October 1993 which is when I incorporated Stardock from my dorm room in college. Back then, I designed, programmed and did most of the art (poorly).

When our company moved to Microsoft Windows, I designed the Windows versions of Galactic Civilizations I and II.

Then I took a break from GalCiv to go co-found Oxide Games and Mohawk Games with my friends and with the money we had earned selling Impulse to GameStop.

After GalCiv IV was released in April 2022, I began to take a long look at the game. It had been a long time since I’d really looked at GalCiv. During GalCiv III, I designed the Crusade expansion but just didn’t have the opportunity to work on GalCiv much until recently.

I saw what they were going for with GalCiv IV but I really wanted to take the game in a different direction. And the Steam release was the opportunity to do that. So for the past several months, my life has been all GalCiv. If you’re on Discord or the forums you probably see me as Frogboy or Draginol (a character that came from the original GalCiv lore I wrote back in the 1990s). It would not be an exaggeration to say that this game has been my life for the past few months.

If you liked GalCiv II, you will probably like GalCiv IV. If you liked GalCiv III, you…hopefully will like GalCiv IV.

And this isn’t the end. Not by any means. I feel like we’ve just scratched the surface with what this game can do. And with your help, we’re going to do things that no space strategy game has ever done.

If you go to the original article there are links below it that take you to all the previous Dev Journals.

And yes, weirdly, the product page in Steam does not call it Galactic Civilizations IV: Supernova, just Galactic Civilizations IV. However, when you order the game it does say Buy Galactic Civilizations IV: Supernova Edition.

[jztemple2]

[jztemple2]

The game has been released:

And you can get it cheaper on Green Man Gaming if you are so inclined.

[wonderpug]

Thanks for the bump -- I've been on the fence about whether or not I want to jump on this. I loved 1 and 2, couldn't really get into 3 (at release, never came back to it after expansions), and haven't tried 4 at all yet. (It's hard to find clean user impressions of 4 since it's gotten review bombed so much for not being on Steam!)

What price are you seeing on GMG? It looks like it's $50 both places.

[jztemple2]

What price are you seeing on GMG? It looks like it's $50 both places.

You need to have an account and no doubt some tier level for the discount. I'm a gold tier member and it's showing a 15% discount.

[Kraken]

Thanks for the bump -- I've been on the fence about whether or not I want to jump on this. I loved 1 and 2, couldn't really get into 3 (at release, never came back to it after expansions), and haven't tried 4 at all yet. (It's hard to find clean user impressions of 4 since it's gotten review bombed so much for not being on Steam!)

I liked GC3 and was still playing it until I tried Stellaris. Now I'm all-in on that game. Would be interested to know how GC4 compares to Stellaris. (I don't care about ship designs or map animations or cosmetics like that because I almost never zoom in close enough to see them.)

[Jeff V]

The Metaverse in GC3 never seemed to work right for me. I was getting awesome victories on difficult levels but pitiful points..in GC2, I was in the top tier (and the OO Guild was up there for awhile too). It might seem like a small thing, but it was the key to repetitive play.

[Lassr]

I liked GC3 and was still playing it until I tried Stellaris. Now I'm all-in on that game. Would be interested to know how GC4 compares to Stellaris. (I don't care about ship designs or map animations or cosmetics like that because I almost never zoom in close enough to see them.)

I like all the GC games but have not loved them. I'd play GC3 occasionally but it was missing that "IT" factor that made me want to return to it and play it over and over. I can't quite place my finger on what the "IT" is though.

I too have been heavily into Stellaris since came out and haven't even went back to GC3.

[Kraken]

I liked GC3 and was still playing it until I tried Stellaris. Now I'm all-in on that game. Would be interested to know how GC4 compares to Stellaris. (I don't care about ship designs or map animations or cosmetics like that because I almost never zoom in close enough to see them.)

I like al the GC games but not loved them. I'd play GC3 occasionally but it was missing that "IT" factor that made me want to return to it and play it over and over. I can't quite place my finger on what the "IT" is though.

I too have been heavily into Stellaris since came out and haven;t even went back to GC3.

Steam says that as of last night, I've put more hours into Stellaris than GC3 (about 450 hours in each). GC4 will have to be pretty compelling to pry me away.

[jztemple2]

I've been following GalCiv IV all this time, but since it seems the devs are constantly adding new free and DLC content I've been reluctant to pull the trigger. There is an expansion pass that gives access to all the DLC:



However, it seems that Warlords is the biggie DLC that adds a lot of content especially to the combat aspect. With the release of that DLC last month I'm closer to thinking about getting the game plus the pass.



Something else amusing...

Back over two years ago I had purchased access to the lastest beta of GC4 (not the Supernova edition which wasn't even something back then) from the Epic store and had this observation, among others:

I put in a couple of hours on the latest beta and I have concerns about this game being ready for a planned release in less than two weeks. My biggest is that there is no diplomatic summary screen, in other words a screen which displays the current relationships between civilizations (war, treaties, nothing, etc) using some graphic representation. GC3 has a nice one, but GC4 has nothing. I posted on their Discord channel and the answer I got from a couple of folks is "nothing there now, maybe in the future...?".

Then, a couple of weeks later when the released 1.0 version was uploaded, I posted this:

So I got a chance to check out the released version of GC4 tonight. They are still missing that diplomacy summary screen. I posted my concern to the official GC4 forum and got this answer from a moderator:

You mean being able to see all relations between civs? That would be cheating.

Hmm, it existed in GC3 but now in GC4 the answer is that having that screen would be cheating? Sounds to me like a missing feature instead. If you don't have it then you have to use scratch paper and jot down every time some civ asks you to go to war against another civ. That would at least tell you that they don't like that civ . But it's crappy compared to how diplomacy was displayed in GC3.

Well, this evening I was checking out the latest news release for GC4 when I saw this screenshot:



Well, what do you know? A diplomacy summary screen, just like there used to be in GC3. Apparently now it is not considered cheating to have it in the game