Octopus Overlords

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:53 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:51 am

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:14 am 7 or so posts after this gem was dropped, and not even a peep?! You disappoint me, OO.

"Martin recently said of Winds in an appearance on Bangcast"

Despite all appearances, we aren't actually all 12. Particularly those among us that read 1000+ page novels.

But some of us are.

I've said it before, but I am at LEAST 13, emotionally and mentally, not sure about all you other schlubs.

Yeah, but you're a big ninny.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 8:42 pm
Why doesn't he just take some chunk of that (700, 800, 1,000 pages, whatever make sense) publish that, and then fold the rest into a next book?

Next book? You really think he's gonna survive another 20 years?

I think it is his intention to finish the story with this book. My main question is does the TV show ending have any influence? That could explain his struggles, since it was a horseshit finale.

Or he realized that he's written such a complex story that finishing all of the plots and subplots in a satisfactory manner is an insane task.

When Sanderson was hired to finish Wheel of Time (which was longer, and had more characters bouncing around), it was to write the last book. By the time he was halfway done, he realized that by the time he wrapped everything up, it would so large it would be unsellable (it would have been ~2,500 pages.) It ended up being divided up into three books. And even then he's ended up resolving a few plots offscreen (like having long-expected reunions take place between chapters, and then just throwing in a paragraph later to mention that it had happened.)

I have a feeling that GRRM is facing that same issue. If he writes it out the way it really needs to be written, this will be the ball chained to his leg for the rest of his life, something he has to deal with before he runs out of time, eating into everything else he might want to do. But if he tries to shortcut too much in order to get it over and done with, he may well end up ruining it. If he's ready to move on, I can imagine that the pressure must be making the entire thing an unpleasant task.

Or he could just say a wizard did it and wrap it up in a few dozen pages.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 7:27 pm I think it is his intention to finish the story with this book. My main question is does the TV show ending have any influence? That could explain his struggles, since it was a horseshit finale.

My understanding is that most of the final season plot came from GRRM. The execution of the show was rushed but the major plot beats are what he had planned from the beginning.

Exodor wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:42 pm My understanding is that most of the final season plot came from GRRM. The execution of the show was rushed but the major plot beats are what he had planned from the beginning.

That is correct. He sat with them when the show was first pitched and told them everything - in particular how it was going to end (broadly). They ruined it by rushing / condensing the ending, but AFAIK it largely represented his intentions.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:50 pm

Exodor wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:42 pm My understanding is that most of the final season plot came from GRRM. The execution of the show was rushed but the major plot beats are what he had planned from the beginning.

That is correct. He sat with them when the show was first pitched and told them everything - in particular how it was going to end (broadly). They ruined it by rushing / condensing the ending, but AFAIK it largely represented his intentions.

Maybe that's the problem. The ending sucked so hard that no amount of fleshing out will save it.

It brings me no pleasure to bump this thread, however I do think it's important to note how he currently feels:

George R.R. Martin blames “anti-fans” on social media for the “rational discourse” around films and television shows ending.

The Game of Thrones author recently opened up in a post on his blog about what a “nightmare” last year was for him, both “professionally and personally.” He also admitted that he feels “so far 2024 looks to be even worse.”

...

“It used to be fun talking about our favorite books and films, and having spirited debates with fans who saw things different… but somehow in this age of social media, it is no longer enough to say ‘I did not like book X or film Y, and here’s why,'” he explained. “Now social media is ruled by anti-fans who would rather talk about the stuff they hate than the stuff they love, and delight in dancing on the graves of anyone whose film has flopped.”

So I'm guessing he's not motivated enough to finish things because he doesn't like people saying mean things about his work.

Why not just assign the job to Brandon Sanderson?

Just another excuse for being unable to finish the series.

For someone not afraid to lop off the heads of fan favorite characters he seems a little thin skinned.

If only he finished writing them in the early 2000s before social media became the de-facto way for everyone to communicate anything - especially displeasure.

I feel like the social media comment is being taken out of context in the THR article. His blog post was primarily about his views on 2024 overall (war, politics, deaths of close friends). Yes, he wrote about toxicity online (I can't really argue with that) but it was hardly the thrust of his post. I also think it's a reach to assume that's contributing to him not finishing the latest book. Sure it might be affecting him in that way, but we'd never know.

I think everyone (myself included) is trying to understand what the hold up is, so any time there's even a nugget of information that might explain things, it's spun out into an article.

If only there was a way for him to stop all the hand-wringing.

I didn’t get ‘I’m not finishing my book series because the internet is mean’ from that quote.

OTOH it also doesn’t sound like someone motivated to do something for public consumption anytime soon.

Still consider his work the best fantasy writing out there.