Octopus Overlords

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:21 pm
After Hillary Clinton openly admitted that nothing would change from the Obama years,

That's what made me vote for her.

Blackhawk wrote:That bit on abortion rights got me thinking: How much would their platform change? In other words, how many "core Republican issues" would be completely forgotten if they suddenly didn't have to cater to the voters for reelection?

This is why I think the GOP plan is ultimately self-defeating. Aside from abortion and guns, their only real positions are opposing the other side. If you take away the need to oppose the other side (because you no longer need to worry about losing elections), I'm not sure where your source of power comes from. How do you generate fear of the enemy when your enemy no longer poses a threat?

You still make them out to be a threat. They don’t actually have to be one.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:15 pm Aside from abortion and guns, their only real positions are opposing the other side.

To be fair, much of the momentum for Dems taking all three houses in the last election was simply "we're not Trumpy conservatives"

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:33 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:15 pm Aside from abortion and guns, their only real positions are opposing the other side.

To be fair, much of the momentum for Dems taking all three houses in the last election was simply "we're not Trumpy conservatives"

Not just to be fair. It's a rotten strategy. Or at least it is from the perspective of someone who feels like he has to vote for the Dems because Trumpy conservatism is has ridiculous power. That can only get my vote for so long before "well, we're fucked anyway." This last election I saw a line I wouldn't cross. The sex predator democrat kid. I would have voted against him. I don't know where that line is, but clearly I have one and the more I feel hostage to voting for you because your not as bad as the other guy, the more I move toward "fuck it. Don't put this shit on me if you can't come up with an alternative."

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:15 pm

Blackhawk wrote:That bit on abortion rights got me thinking: How much would their platform change? In other words, how many "core Republican issues" would be completely forgotten if they suddenly didn't have to cater to the voters for reelection?

This is why I think the GOP plan is ultimately self-defeating. Aside from abortion and guns, their only real positions are opposing the other side. If you take away the need to oppose the other side (because you no longer need to worry about losing elections), I'm not sure where your source of power comes from. How do you generate fear of the enemy when your enemy no longer poses a threat?

Plenty of authoritarian regimes have maintained power and even stoked popular support after they achieved one-party rule.

In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:15 pm

Blackhawk wrote:That bit on abortion rights got me thinking: How much would their platform change? In other words, how many "core Republican issues" would be completely forgotten if they suddenly didn't have to cater to the voters for reelection?

This is why I think the GOP plan is ultimately self-defeating. Aside from abortion and guns, their only real positions are opposing the other side. If you take away the need to oppose the other side (because you no longer need to worry about losing elections), I'm not sure where your source of power comes from. How do you generate fear of the enemy when your enemy no longer poses a threat?

Plenty of authoritarian regimes have maintained power and even stoked popular support after they achieved one-party rule.

In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.

The bigger problem is that once an authoritarian party consolidates one-party rule, it doesn't need to maintain majority support. It probably just needs something like 20% - 30% support plus the support of the military / security forces.

There's the rub - do you think the GOP can garner enough military support to keep the nation's majority from open revolt? I'm not yet convinced.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:19 pm There's the rub - do you think the GOP can garner enough military support to keep the nation's majority from open revolt? I'm not yet convinced.

Can the nation's majority get off its collective ass to revolt?

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.

You forgot the words 'straight' and 'male.'

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:26 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:19 pm There's the rub - do you think the GOP can garner enough military support to keep the nation's majority from open revolt? I'm not yet convinced.

Can the nation's majority get off its collective ass to revolt?

It's not really about open revolt. It's more about whether security forces are willing to shoot peaceful protestors on behalf of the regime.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:40 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.

You forgot the words 'straight' and 'male.'

You can call them White Conservative Christian Men. (Conservative = straight/closeted). "Wiccams" for short.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:40 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.

You forgot the words 'straight' and 'male.'

I’ll accept ‘straight’, but not ‘male’. LOTS of Trump/Liberty/tea party type supporters are women.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:39 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:40 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.

You forgot the words 'straight' and 'male.'

I’ll accept ‘straight’, but not ‘male’. LOTS of Trump/Liberty/tea party type supporters are women.

I have a feeling most of those women have been duped into granting males the real power.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:43 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:39 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:40 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm In our case, the narrative will be keeping White Christian Americans safe from anyone Not.

You forgot the words 'straight' and 'male.'

I’ll accept ‘straight’, but not ‘male’. LOTS of Trump/Liberty/tea party type supporters are women.

I have a feeling most of those women have been duped into granting males the real power.

Yeah. For this crowd "Christian" implies straight male authority.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:11 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:26 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:19 pm There's the rub - do you think the GOP can garner enough military support to keep the nation's majority from open revolt? I'm not yet convinced.

Can the nation's majority get off its collective ass to revolt?

It's not really about open revolt. It's more about whether security forces are willing to shoot peaceful protestors on behalf of the regime.

Last I heard, most soldiers are trumpy and the brass is not. Just need to replace the brass.

Back in my day...................

You not only have to get Trumpy soldiers, you have to get Trumpy soldiers willing to turn their guns on fellow Americans. I'm guessing that's a much smaller subset.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but I think we've still got a really long way to go before we reach that point. While it's easy to get sucked into the mindset that all Trump voters are bloodthirsty, radicalized cultists, the reality is that the vast majority of them are just regular folks who wouldn't dream of breaking the law over politics, much less engage in civil war over it.

dbt1949 wrote:Back in my day...................

We haven’t had the National Guard gun down any protesters yet.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:06 pm You not only have to get Trumpy soldiers, you have to get Trumpy soldiers willing to turn their guns on fellow Americans. I'm guessing that's a much smaller subset.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but I think we've still got a really long way to go before we reach that point. While it's easy to get sucked into the mindset that all Trump voters are bloodthirsty, radicalized cultists, the reality is that the vast majority of them are just regular folks who wouldn't dream of breaking the law over politics, much less engage in civil war over it.

Yeah, I don't think that we're there now. But give Trump or some Trump substitute some more time in the White House and we'll get there eventually - the bigger question is how long it would take.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:43 pmI have a feeling most of those women have been duped into granting males the real power.

Nobody is fooling anyone.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:01 am

dbt1949 wrote:Back in my day...................

We haven’t had the National Guard gun down any protesters yet.

That's the stuff I keep reminding myself of. It's bad. it's a bad trajectory. But we're still in a better place than we were 50 years ago. And we've recovered from worse trajectories, short of the one in 1860. Circumstances are different but we're still not at the end of a rope.

So for me, my preparation is the 2022 elections at this time.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:11 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:26 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:19 pm There's the rub - do you think the GOP can garner enough military support to keep the nation's majority from open revolt? I'm not yet convinced.

Can the nation's majority get off its collective ass to revolt?

It's not really about open revolt. It's more about whether security forces are willing to shoot peaceful protestors on behalf of the regime.

Peaceful protestors with or without firearms?