Octopus Overlords

As I understand the rules, every night Hildred and any Insane Artist with a copy of the play can produce and distribute a single copy.

Now that we're operating in the open, it seems to me that today everyone should declare whether they have a copy of the play but NOT whether they are already insane. No one should declare their role (and presumably the Alienist will lie about theirs, as they must.) I suppose Hildred could declare his role, since he's also safe.

Then we can quite openly parcel out who is going to supply a copy to whom. (We can also double up if possible in the hopes of foiling an Alienist lie.) Obviously I should be today's lynch vote since I'm safe. Ideally, tonight ends with all of the Artists owning a copy. The Alienist's night analysis is a risk, but it will be a crap shoot since he doesn't know who's insane.

Do NOT read your copy of the play tonight.

Tomorrow we assess again, and then hopefully we'll have enough information to win the game as everyone reads their books tomorrow night.

If people agree to this plan, I will take up Punisher on his offer to seduce me tonight. If he has a book tonight, he can destroy it and tell me so openly tomorrow. Then tomorrow night I can drive him insane (he'll still be my lover) when the other Artists read their books, and we can all win together.

Anyone (besides the Alienist, sorry!) see any problems with this?

Also, if someone has done the math and thinks this strategy is a day (or more) too early, please speak up!

So I guess nobody should announce anything until there is a consensus that today is a good day to do so.

Speaking of plays, I'm heading out to see a queer black adaptation of HAMLET tonight, so I won't be available for comment until tomorrow.

Scoop20906 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:13 pm

Punisher wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:15 pm I'd be ok seducing you if need be.

Also, if we just want to end the game quick, we could agree to have 1 artist seduce you and the other artists holding onto their book until everyone has one and then on the same night, read it.
This means everyone except the alienist (and Moliere) wins at that point.

I think...

I feel like this might become an episode of the Bachelor. (might be an interesting game idea there )

To be fair, it might depend on the quality of the nudes...

Punisher wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:15 pm I'd be ok seducing you if need be.

Also, if we just want to end the game quick, we could agree to have 1 artist seduce you and the other artists holding onto their book until everyone has one and then on the same night, read it.
This means everyone except the alienist (and Moliere) wins at that point.

I think...

I would support a mass win scenario [greater good person in me]; however we wish to work it out. I am having a hard time finding the ebb and flow of the game. [ Lagom no offense I truly respect the fact you created this whole new game out of nothing].

Holman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:30 pm I suppose it's possible for the Muse to adopt a pro-Alienist, anti-madness strategy, but I couldn't figure out how to engineer that when the Alienist (unlike Hildy and the Muse) needs to stay undercover. Sorry, Alienist!

I don't see this as being true.
I'm pretty sure that it ultimately doesn't matter if we reveal our roles.
I say everyone including the alienist announces.

Holman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 5:42 pm As I understand the rules, every night Hildred and any Insane Artist with a copy of the play can produce and distribute a single copy.

Now that we're operating in the open, it seems to me that today everyone should declare whether they have a copy of the play but NOT whether they are already insane. No one should declare their role (and presumably the Alienist will lie about theirs, as they must.) I suppose Hildred could declare his role, since he's also safe.

Then we can quite openly parcel out who is going to supply a copy to whom. (We can also double up if possible in the hopes of foiling an Alienist lie.) Obviously I should be today's lynch vote since I'm safe. Ideally, tonight ends with all of the Artists owning a copy. The Alienist's night analysis is a risk, but it will be a crap shoot since he doesn't know who's insane.

Do NOT read your copy of the play tonight.

Tomorrow we assess again, and then hopefully we'll have enough information to win the game as everyone reads their books tomorrow night.

If people agree to this plan, I will take up Punisher on his offer to seduce me tonight. If he has a book tonight, he can destroy it and tell me so openly tomorrow. Then tomorrow night I can drive him insane (he'll still be my lover) when the other Artists read their books, and we can all win together.

Anyone (besides the Alienist, sorry!) see any problems with this?

Only one issue. If i have a book, i cant destroy it AND suduce you on the same night.

I'm sorry, I think I actually was maybe even made aware of that earlier and managed to revert back to my previous understanding of the rules.

So, a problem here I think with the plan...

Each Night, SANE Art Students who ARE in possession of a copy of the Play MUST choose from the following:
- READ THE PLAY, or:
- DESTROY THE PLAY.

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 8:28 pm So, a problem here I think with the plan...

Each Night, SANE Art Students who ARE in possession of a copy of the Play MUST choose from the following:
- READ THE PLAY, or:
- DESTROY THE PLAY.

Correct, there is no holding onto the play and doing nothing with it. Can only pass it once you have read it and are insane.

Players:
1. Punisher
2. Unagi
3. Moliere (Murdered Art Student)
4. Newcastle
5. Holman
6. Scoop20906
7. Isgrimnur
8. Lassr


Vote tally:
Holman 1 (Scoop20906)
Lassr 1 (Unagi, Unagi, Newcastle)
Scoop20906 0 (Unagi, Unagi)

Majority is 4.

Lassr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:22 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 8:28 pm So, a problem here I think with the plan...

Each Night, SANE Art Students who ARE in possession of a copy of the Play MUST choose from the following:
- READ THE PLAY, or:
- DESTROY THE PLAY.

Correct, there is no holding onto the play and doing nothing with it. Can only pass it once you have read it and are insane.

Hmm..
Ok, so based on this is there another plan to victory?

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 8:28 pm So, a problem here I think with the plan...

Each Night, SANE Art Students who ARE in possession of a copy of the Play MUST choose from the following:
- READ THE PLAY, or:
- DESTROY THE PLAY.

Ugh. You're right.

I'm trying to recalibrate, but I'm not seeing a clear next step.

Does anyone have any reason to suspect someone of being the Alienist?

I suggested something about Izzy earlier, and he has gone quiet about it since.

And what was that again?

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:54 pm Does anyone have any reason to suspect someone of being the Alienist?

I suggested something about Izzy earlier, and he has gone quiet about it since.

Well, the Alienist is the only one trying to commit everyone else as part 9f his role so id think that is enough reason to suspect them, no?

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:48 pm And what was that again?

It was flimsy, I'll agree, but it was this.

I don't believe anyone is going to master this ruleset in a first try and pull out a big sneaky win except through luck.

The only way to maximize the potential for a shared win (if people want that) is to go fully public and go from there. Of course the Alienist will lie (so as not to be murdered that night), so there will still be some deducing to do.

I've already gone public. Do others agree it might work?

Chiming in here as we discuss our options. And i am sticking my foot in mouth so others dont....what's the proposed gameplay if you are going to go along w/ this mass win scenario? Just laying out the framework here.


Art Student without the Play:

Sane Art Student with the Play:

Insane Art Student with the Play:

Muse: Will you Write someone?
Muse with at least two Lovers:

Alienist: Will you Analyze someone?

Hildred Castaigne:

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:54 pm Does anyone have any reason to suspect someone of being the Alienist?

I suggested something about Izzy earlier, and he has gone quiet about it since.

Possible. But any alienist at this point would either try to derail the work here or go quiet.

Newcastle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:30 am

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:54 pm Does anyone have any reason to suspect someone of being the Alienist?

I suggested something about Izzy earlier, and he has gone quiet about it since.

Possible. But any alienist at this point would either try to derail the work here or go quiet.

Well, that gives Hildred a target in itself.

Night Actions
ALIENIST

Each Night, the Alienist may choose to Analyze a player to determine whether they are Sane or Insane. An Analyzed player who reads as Insane is also immediately Committed to the Asylum.

The Alienist may be sent copies of the Play and will keep them for one Day, but he may never Read or Copy them. Additionally, all copies of the Play in the Alienists possession are destroyed the following Night.


Am trying to figure out how to work on the mass reveal here...taking a different tack than you folks...just looking at the mechanics here...one thing I did notice...is that we CAN NOT do a mass reveal of our status...to help streamline things..One idea i had was a mass reveal of our status
\

HILDRED:
Each Night, Hildred Castaigne may INSTEAD choose a player to Murder. Murdered players are removed from the game just as if they were Committed to the Asylum. If he Murders a player owning a copy of the Play, he steals all copies of the Play that player had in his possession. He will never kill a woman, however – that is beneath his Imperial dignity. Should he happen to target the Muse, he learns her identity and the Murder fails. If she owns any copies of the Play she keeps them.

So i pop this out here, what if hildred takes out our suspected Alienist? It could pave the way to a mass reveal. Just wondering how to grease the wheels here to achieve this.

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:35 am

Newcastle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:30 am

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:54 pm Does anyone have any reason to suspect someone of being the Alienist?

I suggested something about Izzy earlier, and he has gone quiet about it since.

Possible. But any alienist at this point would either try to derail the work here or go quiet.

Well, that gives Hildred a target in itself.

Very true. I fee like 5 steps behind everyone here.

So right now got 7 players

Players:
1. Punisher
2. Unagi
3. Moliere (Murdered Art Student)
4. Newcastle
5. Holman
6. Scoop20906
7. Isgrimnur
8. Lassr

3 specials Alive
Muse, HIldred & alchemist

4 students alive
1 insane student
3 sane students

We need to get those remaining 3 students insane over the course of the next 3 days. I assume right now after having read the rules a bit more...that because we have 3 plays, with 2 initial starting. So 1 student is now copying play feverishly. With 2 more out in the wild.

3 books.
We do know Scoop has 1 play.
We do know someone swiped scoops play
[ all roads lead through Scoop eh?]

Scoop - not sure if you are insane or not...but just you may think about delaying reading your book....that way Alienist can not toss you in the insane asylum. Is there an option to sit on your book or destroy it to keep your winning condition?

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:35 am

Newcastle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:30 am

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:54 pm Does anyone have any reason to suspect someone of being the Alienist?

I suggested something about Izzy earlier, and he has gone quiet about it since.

Possible. But any alienist at this point would either try to derail the work here or go quiet.

Well, that gives Hildred a target in itself.

Actually if i was the Alienist now...i would be involved in shaping the discussions. Shaping the strategy somehow to prevent this..Because face it...a mass win is on the horizon now...its just a matter of time. Best the Alienist can do is to try to delay things...i think.

Lassr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:22 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 8:28 pm So, a problem here I think with the plan...

Each Night, SANE Art Students who ARE in possession of a copy of the Play MUST choose from the following:
- READ THE PLAY, or:
- DESTROY THE PLAY.

Correct, there is no holding onto the play and doing nothing with it. Can only pass it once you have read it and are insane.

So scoop destroys his play...and he gets passed along another. As a wise man said once..."there is another"...in this case 2!

Newcastle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:54 am Scoop - not sure if you are insane or not...but just you may think about delaying reading your book....that way Alienist can not toss you in the insane asylum. Is there an option to sit on your book or destroy it to keep your winning condition?

That was part of my big reveal/plan announced earlier, but then I was reminded that a sane Artist can't sit on an unopened play: they must read or destroy it.

I think the path to a mass win involves spreading the insanity (and the play).

LAGOM: Excuse my ignorance here...

IF an insane Student has a copy of the play, is it theirs until the end of the game if they wish? Or is it destroyed once its copied?

So if we do lynch our suspected alchemist...we will know they are insane....50/50 chance its: insane student or alchemist....i like those odds actually.

If we do....hit the alchemist...it will target them for Hildred over the night cycle.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:57 am Provides information

Becomes lynch target

I had a copy, it got stolen. I just got the mess cleaned up. I don't need a troop of rowdies trashing the place again.

interesting reveal...cover to why he is insane w/out a book?

Newcastle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:05 pm LAGOM: Excuse my ignorance here...

IF an insane Student has a copy of the play, is it theirs until the end of the game if they wish? Or is it destroyed once its copied?

Insane students keep their copy. They are forced to create new copies every Night and send it to someone.

The only was for an Insane student to get rid of his play is if he is Searched (lynched), Murdered, Committed or Stolen from.

The problem is that we can only lymch the alienist IF they also have the play. Otherwise only hildy can kill him outright.

I think I have a plan that might work.
Only artists can seduce the muse.
Each night one artist seduces the muse. Muse confirms each day.
Once every artist is identified, the muse makes them all insane except one.

Does thatvwork?

Newcastle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:05 pm LAGOM: Excuse my ignorance here...

IF an insane Student has a copy of the play, is it theirs until the end of the game if they wish? Or is it destroyed once its copied?

Nevermind...ITS AMAZING WHAT rereading the thread does for ones understanding.

I have a bit better undersanding now here..Sorry for all the rube questions and statements earlier. I think right now, considering everyone's state of mind...the mass win is the best route as proposed by Holman. How we get there is the journey ahead.

Upon rereading everything; I realized lynching a suspected alienist does nothing w/out the book. Alienist has a very hard road to hew to win in this game.


First: I think one way we can do this....is everyone put for their list of only 1 thing: Who is the alienist? This will give Hildred a shopping list to choose from and to deduce who they may take out. Thoughts?

Secondarily; we can't do a reveal without putting the insane students at risk. So somehow converting everyone to insanity is the goal. I think because we have 1 student insane who is copying the book...its best we protect them at all costs somehow. That is until we can get more books and insanity circulating.

Thirdly: We really all should chip into Holman's coin purse....he is running out of tea and all. Can i put in a request for intergalactic cyborg porn please?

If we can kind of go on repeat each day...ie day cycle:
Everyone's puts forth alienist suspect
Search holman...,

the drop into the night cycle....
insane students copy and distribute,
sane students do nothing,
specials do their thang

Fourth: What happens to students who are sane but without the book? My advice...do nothing. If a sane art student inadvertently steals from an insane student...it delays the game.

Fifth: When we get to 3 insane students....there should be a tidal wave of books in circulation...does the sole sane student reveal themselves so they get a copy of the book?

One more thing....regarding distributing/copying the play: How do we organize ourselves for optimal distribution of the play? I propose the following.....
The first insane student distribute their copies starting from the top of an agreed upon list (ie the official lagom sheet)
The second insane student distribute their copies from the BOTTOM of an agreed upon list.
Third....somewhere in the middle

Downside to this is that it gives the Alchemist a good target pool to work from...hmm maybe not the brilliant idea i had hoped for.

I am realizing that I thought I understood the rulez but obviously I didn't understand them clearly enough so I'm a bit nervous about this reveal but I think it is time and I also think I am fairly safe in my reasoning.

I am Hagrid.

So let me tell you. I love this play. I mean I can't even put it down its so good! There is a great bit at the end about two dogs and an alienist. Had me rolling. You should all read it!!

My propsal to all.  Read your play tonight. 
 

Scoop20906 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:44 pm I am realizing that I thought I understood the rulez but obviously I didn't understand them clearly enough so I'm a bit nervous about this reveal but I think it is time and I also think I am fairly safe in my reasoning.

I am Hagrid.

So let me tell you. I love this play. I mean I can't even put it down its so good! There is a great bit at the end about two dogs and an alienist. Had me rolling. You should all read it!!

My propsal to all.  Read your play tonight. 
 

But what if everyone doesn't have a play?

Punisher wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:50 pm

Scoop20906 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:44 pm I am realizing that I thought I understood the rulez but obviously I didn't understand them clearly enough so I'm a bit nervous about this reveal but I think it is time and I also think I am fairly safe in my reasoning.

I am Hagrid.

So let me tell you. I love this play. I mean I can't even put it down its so good! There is a great bit at the end about two dogs and an alienist. Had me rolling. You should all read it!!

My propsal to all.  Read your play tonight. 
 

But what if everyone doesn't have a play?

You have another option.

Scoop20906 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:57 pm

Punisher wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:50 pm

Scoop20906 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:44 pm I am realizing that I thought I understood the rulez but obviously I didn't understand them clearly enough so I'm a bit nervous about this reveal but I think it is time and I also think I am fairly safe in my reasoning.

I am Hagrid.

So let me tell you. I love this play. I mean I can't even put it down its so good! There is a great bit at the end about two dogs and an alienist. Had me rolling. You should all read it!!

My propsal to all.  Read your play tonight. 
 

But what if everyone doesn't have a play?

You have another option.

Yeah, and ot looks like I am going with that, but what if other artists don't have the play?

Also, hold off on day vote for a bit. We might have to change ot. Just trying to sort some things out.